Giant Shill Bidding Operation at NameJet Exposed

[Addison]

Beware of domain name auction bids at exactly the reserve price at Namejet

I was going through the Namejet domain name auctions when I spotted the domain name che.biz.

I checked the auction again today and “grandcru” has increased the bid to $18,800 and of course once again had not hit the reserve.

it is either the seller or a friend of the seller that is creating hype about the auction and also making bids close to the reserve so that some legit bidder gets tricked and makes a bid that will hit the reserve.

Here is another auction from last month with “grandcru” bidding just below the reserve for the domain name bakery.biz

I came across a tweet yesterday by Raymond that said that auto.co had a $75k bid at Namejet. So I went to the auction and guess what? It was “grandcru” once again bidding at the lower end of the reserve. “grandcru” made a $75,001 bid while the second highest bid was just $2,000.

I checked with Whoisology to make sure and I found that last month che.biz had the same registrant name as auto.co and bakery.biz.

I just noticed that che.biz is marketed by Namejet. If I was Namejet I would be very careful what auctions I promote.

 

[wwwweb]

Namejet is in the auctions sector for so long, they should be able to detect incidents like this in a heartbeat.

They don't need any cutting-edge AI system for this either.

It's a common pattern : Bidder Popeye bidding on Bidder Olive's auctions, and only those, up to an amount that marginally misses the reserve, and this amount is "unrealistic" re the domain's value.
This should raise a red flag, and staff should investigate further.

The fact these were sponsored listings, should provide an added leg up, and the value of the bids another red flag for follow up.

At the end of the day buyer beware, as they are profiting from such actions. With every bid they get 15% of that action, or whatever they take, so really how motivated are they at the end of the day.

Everyone seems to think domainers make so much money, and who cares if they get taxed a bit, they deserve to. If only they knew the real truth of carrying inventory, dealing with renewals, low ball bidders, and non paying bidders, and house commissions, and escrow checkouts where the buyer does not want to verify. Not such an easy business after all.

 

[Wannabean]

It used to be that namejet had a tag that bid on auctions for names that had reserves to 'boost' them up close to the reserve amount and give the name a chance of selling. I can't remember what the alias was but bet someone else here can...

 

[wwwweb]

It used to be that namejet had a tag that bid on auctions for names that had reserves to 'boost' them up close to the reserve amount and give the name a chance of selling. I can't remember what the alias was but bet someone else here can...

it was 'namereserve' I believe

I have been seeing many private auctions enter their inventory with the reserve range, a good portion of them are not even getting minimum bids, as it is a wholesale outlet, and bidders want a deal, not wanting to even bother to pay min reserve as they don't see the value. Before much of namejet was non reserve, now a good chunk of it has reserves, as I guess sellers need to put into place as namejet seeks better inventory to add to their marketplace.

Who wouldn't want to auction off a 2L.com for $500K, and take 15% of that home for simply listing it.

 

[Asfas1000]

The fact these were sponsored listings, should provide an added leg up, and the value of the bids another red flag for follow up.

At the end of the day buyer beware, as they are profiting from such actions. With every bid they get 15% of that action, or whatever they take, so really how motivated are they at the end of the day.

Yeah maybe, they profit, why not keep quiet....

It used to be that namejet had a tag that bid on auctions for names that had reserves to 'boost' them up close to the reserve amount and give the name a chance of selling. I can't remember what the alias was but bet someone else here can...

That's a fancy description for in-house shill bidding

 

[Wannabean]

it was 'namereserve' I believe

I have been seeing many private auctions enter their inventory with the reserve range, a good portion of them are not even getting minimum bids, as it is a wholesale outlet, and bidders want a deal, not wanting to even bother to pay min reserve as they don't see the value.

Thanks for that!

And yes your right there's a lot of inventory listed on there with mad reserves and quite a lot of these names just seem to cycle round and round with no or few bids. It only takes a few to sell though and the sellers will be ecstatic and namejet make a good commission...

Think the thread title here is a little misleading though. Not seeing evidence of a huge shill bidding ring.

 

[wwwweb]

Yeah maybe, they profit, why not keep quiet....





That's a fancy description for in-house shill bidding

Or look the other way, that is why it is strange a blog exposed this, when they start it in the face everyday.

Inadvertently they are in a conflict position when they profit from such actions. I have no idea if this person has engaged others into bidding wars with the hopes of pushing the price up for his friend. Will namejet go back, and check, and refund these bidders who were pushed up? I doubt it, they will not even discuss it openly.

 

[Wannabean]

That's a fancy description for in-house shill bidding

Not really shilling. They were just bidding up to the reserve range. It just meant that the next bid would actually win the name. As opposed to bidders dueling it out whilst not really realising they were miles away from the reserve and wasting their time. Perhaps a better way would be to have starting bids but then again not as much interest is generated if the initial price is high...

Personally I don't much care for this sort of thing but I don't think it's shilling.

 

[Wannabean]

Will namejet go back, and check, and refund these bidders who were pushed up?

We should probably get the facts straight. The title of this thread and the op is going to get people excited and muddy the waters here. No one has been pushed up. These aren't cases where the buyer (if indeed any of these sales completed) could have got the name cheaper because the reserve wouldn't have been met so the name wouldn't have sold. It's definitely not shill bidding and there couldn't be any refunds because lower bids wouldn't have triggered a sale.

Like I said, I'm not a huge fan of the practice but it's not shill bidding, which is a far worse problem imo and needs to be rooted out.

Really need to change the thread title here.

 

[Asfas1000]

Not really shilling. They were just bidding up to the reserve range. It just meant that the next bid would actually win the name. As opposed to bidders dueling it out whilst not really realising they were miles away from the reserve and wasting their time. Perhaps a better way would be to have starting bids but then again not as much interest is generated if the initial price is high...

Personally I don't much care for this sort of thing but I don't think it's shilling.

OK I am not familiar with this scheme, so I will ask two questions :

1. If the seller was willing to sell at a slightly lower than reserve price (i.e the bid NJ placed), would they be willing to actually BUY the name at their bid price ?

2. Was every bidder aware about this ?

 

[wwwweb]

OK I am not familiar with this scheme, so I will ask two questions :

1. If the seller was willing to sell at a slightly lower than reserve price (i.e the bid NJ placed), would they be willing to actually BUY the name at their bid price ?

2. Was every bidder aware about this ?

It worked like this the top bidder was namereserve, and anytime you bid if you did not hit the reserve namereserve would still be the top bidder, once the reserve was met, namereserve would no longer be the top bidder, and your username would show high bidder.

It confused many at first as the username actually represented the reserve, until it was met, then it fell to the bottom of the list.

 

[Wannabean]

OK I am not familiar with this scheme, so I will ask two questions :

1. If the seller was willing to sell at a slightly lower than reserve price (i.e the bid NJ placed), would they be willing to actually BUY the name at their bid price ?

2. Was every bidder aware about this ?

1. It's the seller who sets the reserve and the namejet alias would simply bid up to but wouldn't trigger the reserve amount. So what your asking could never happen.

2. It was common knowledge and the alias (thanks to @wwwweb) was namereserve so it was pretty obvious.

I haven't seen the handle for a while but the same thing could still be happening under a different alias (maybe the one the op is referring to?)- I'm not sure. Maybe someone from namejet could help out with this.

The important thing to note right now in this thread, is whilst this might be frowned upon, it's in no way shape or form shill bidding.

 

[Asfas1000]

Thanks both, I retract saying it was "in-house shill bidding".

 

[Addison]

The important thing to note right now in this thread, is whilst this might be frowned upon, it's in no way shape or form shill bidding.

Are you kidding me?

Just because this doesn't match your ill-conceived notion of shill bidding does not mean that it is not shill bidding. Contrary to what you believe, it with all certainty is shill bidding.

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.

Don't get me started.

 

[Wannabean]

Are you kidding me?

Just because this doesn't match your ill-conceived notion of shill bidding does not mean that it is not shill bidding. Contrary to what you believe, it with all certainty is shill bidding.

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.

Don't get me started.

I think I've explained perfectly clearly how it isn't at all. There's not much more I can add. Your wrong and your throwing grand accusations around but only presenting a tiny bit of circumstantial evidence that wouldn't even prove what you claim it does if it was verifiable. If thats too complicated for you, you can always just restate your position using capital letters to make your point instead of rationale.

 

[campout]

Assuming it's true, I definitely think shill bidding is the correct term here.

 

[Wannabean]

Assuming it's true, I definitely think shill bidding is the correct term here.

How can it be? All bids below a reserve are immaterial. They count for nothing.

Shill bidding is where the genuine bidder could have got the name for much cheaper if they hadn't been bid up by the illegitimate party. This is absolutely not happening here.

 

[Addison]

If thats too complicated for you, you can always just restate your position using capital letters to make your point instead of rationale.

Seriously? How many credible sites do I need to reference before you realize that you're flat out wrong.

Wikipedia wasn't enough?

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.

Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids

What does eBay, a billion-dollar online auction website, have to say?

Shill bidding happens when anyone—including family, friends, roommates, employees, or online connections—bids on an item with the intent to artificially increase its price or desirability

Do you need more references? These are established and accepted definitions.

Read a book.

 

[campout]

How can it be? All bids below a reserve are immaterial. They count for nothing.

They're designed to manipulate other potential bidders into thinking there is more demand for the name than really exists, which is why this tactic is employed in the first place, no? It's hugely dishonest.

 

[Wannabean]

Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids

It's not driving the price up!!!!!!! The reserve is the reserve. There's no cheaper price to pay....

How else can I say it? This isn't shill bidding but imo is still a dubious and misleading practice.

You get a clue

 

[Wannabean]

They're designed to manipulate other potential bidders into thinking there is more demand for the name than really exists, which is why this tactic is employed in the first place, no? It's hugely dishonest.

I absolutely agree. But it's still not shill bidding.