Giant Shill Bidding Operation at NameJet Exposed

[Addison]

Beware of domain name auction bids at exactly the reserve price at Namejet

I was going through the Namejet domain name auctions when I spotted the domain name che.biz.

I checked the auction again today and “grandcru” has increased the bid to $18,800 and of course once again had not hit the reserve.

it is either the seller or a friend of the seller that is creating hype about the auction and also making bids close to the reserve so that some legit bidder gets tricked and makes a bid that will hit the reserve.

Here is another auction from last month with “grandcru” bidding just below the reserve for the domain name bakery.biz

I came across a tweet yesterday by Raymond that said that auto.co had a $75k bid at Namejet. So I went to the auction and guess what? It was “grandcru” once again bidding at the lower end of the reserve. “grandcru” made a $75,001 bid while the second highest bid was just $2,000.

I checked with Whoisology to make sure and I found that last month che.biz had the same registrant name as auto.co and bakery.biz.

I just noticed that che.biz is marketed by Namejet. If I was Namejet I would be very careful what auctions I promote.

 

[NameJetGM]

Hi everyone,

I appreciate the spirited debate and I am glad to see you take this type of thing as seriously as we do. As I commented on the original article the day it was published, “The integrity of our platform is our top priority and we would not condone artificially propping up auctions with illegitimate bids”.

In this case, there were a few auctions that exhibited concerning bidding patterns. We investigated and took immediate action, including suspending the auctions and the seller, who was new to our platform. This was not a widespread operation as only a few domains were involved and they did not result in any sales.

We are glad we were able to quickly address this matter. We deeply care about our customers and we work hard to cultivate a marketplace based on trust and integrity.

Thanks all and take care,

-Jonathan
GM, NameJet

 

[wwwweb]

I am surprised this has not got more attention. I dislike when hard working people are defrauded of their funds for illegitimate reasons. It should not be a domain bloggers responsibility to catch such actions, namejet needs to be more proactive.

What are the damages, or will we never know?

 

[JB Lions]

I am surprised this has not got more attention. I dislike when hard working people are defrauded of their funds for illegitimate reasons. It should not be a domain bloggers responsibility to catch such actions, namejet needs to be more proactive.

What are the damages, or will we never know?

The reserves were so high, I would be surprised of one of those auctions actually completed. I would say it's easier to spot and do research when you have at least nicknames to look at, vs. places like GoDaddy where it's numbers or Flippa where it's Bidder 1, 2, 3 etc. at least with them you can see total value of transactions next to them.

 

[wwwweb]

I was once involved in an auction at Godaddy, that sold for over $1M by two bidders spending 2 hours going back, and forth hoping to bait a 3rd buyer into the frill. After the auction, it had hit on the radar of many, the two bidders were deemed fraudlent, and it came back down to $128. Before I could checkout the buyer redeemed the domain, and clearly they were in on it, and they got kicked off the platform.

 

[Recons.Com]

I have seen weird activity on godaddy reserve auctions, this one time just recently the domain must have had a way out reserve, but it was starting around $100, and I bid $150, then outbid the first bidder, then he outbid me, reserve still not met... so then I bid $250, and then he outbid me with just min bid, but everytime I would just in huge steps upto $500, they would only outbid me by minimum bid, even though it would be a much larger reserve, they were just interested in engaging me, and not pushing thru the reserve which I was doing by jumping bids by $100+.

But that is how GD works...

If 1st bidder bid $1000 and reserve is $1100, min is $100, it will show $100.

You come with $150, then GD would show you as outbid with $155 etc.

 

[wwwweb]

It used to be that namejet had a tag that bid on auctions for names that had reserves to 'boost' them up close to the reserve amount and give the name a chance of selling. I can't remember what the alias was but bet someone else here can...

it was 'namereserve' I believe

I have been seeing many private auctions enter their inventory with the reserve range, a good portion of them are not even getting minimum bids, as it is a wholesale outlet, and bidders want a deal, not wanting to even bother to pay min reserve as they don't see the value. Before much of namejet was non reserve, now a good chunk of it has reserves, as I guess sellers need to put into place as namejet seeks better inventory to add to their marketplace.

Who wouldn't want to auction off a 2L.com for $500K, and take 15% of that home for simply listing it.

 

[wwwweb]

OK I am not familiar with this scheme, so I will ask two questions :

1. If the seller was willing to sell at a slightly lower than reserve price (i.e the bid NJ placed), would they be willing to actually BUY the name at their bid price ?

2. Was every bidder aware about this ?

It worked like this the top bidder was namereserve, and anytime you bid if you did not hit the reserve namereserve would still be the top bidder, once the reserve was met, namereserve would no longer be the top bidder, and your username would show high bidder.

It confused many at first as the username actually represented the reserve, until it was met, then it fell to the bottom of the list.

 

[campout]

How can it be? All bids below a reserve are immaterial. They count for nothing.

They're designed to manipulate other potential bidders into thinking there is more demand for the name than really exists, which is why this tactic is employed in the first place, no? It's hugely dishonest.

 

[wwwweb]

How can it be? All bids below a reserve are immaterial. They count for nothing.

Shill bidding is where the genuine bidder could have got the name for much cheaper if they hadn't been bid up by the illegitimate party. This is absolutely not happening here.

Even if the bid is below the reserve, it sets a precedent abcdomain.com for a $75,000 bid at namejet, if that person is not planting bids, good chance the next time they list they will list at a lower price point.

A fake bid whether it is activated into a live bid, or not is manipulation, as if this party has colluled or has no intention to buy the domain, they have no business bidding.

Having a frivolous bidder loose in the marketplace is not good for anyone.

The fact they can advertise that their domain got a $75k bid at namejet is fraud alone, as they planted that fake bid.

In legal terms what this person did constitutes fraud in most North American jurisdictions.

Others might think namejet is like some kind of arcade game, but when you are dealing in real money, and placing bids on your own domains, read up on laws, when it comes to eBay cases and shill bidding, it is a real crime.

 

[Addison]

Reserve Ranges Not Shown on NameJet App

NameJet does not show the auction reserve range on its iPhone bidder app. Bidders who use the app to place bids are doing so somewhat blindly.

Essentially, if I am bidding on a name with a $10,000 minimum price on the NameJet app, I would have no idea what the [reserve] range is

 

[Robert G]

there have been bidding irregularities since I started in 1998 at every auction house.
pool, snapnames, namejet and TDNAM just to name a few

 

[wwwweb]

so, you have definitive proof that shill bidding in going on at namejet?


as the title of article , doesn't state this.


imo....

It seems the article details how one bidder is entering bids into domains with strong reserves just short of meeting the reserve to try, and make it look like interest is there, and maybe goating them into taking the next bid to meet the reserve.

If this is the case, then these are shill bids, as they are not real. It is concerning, as someone is trying to circumvent the bid process. I would say it is shill bidding, if you have no real interest in the domain, and are trying to increase the domain price thru artificial means.

 

[wwwweb]

Bidding under reserve is not shill biding. There needs to be more known then whats given. And NJ promoting a three character domain is not special info. In other words this bidder my be hitting on many auctions by different sellers, not just these three. But good to keep an eye out in future.

Bidding with the intention of manipulating bids, pricing, and other bidders is schill bidding, there is no excuse, and should be zero tolerance for it.

If that person is an insider, and has no intention of buying that name, and is bidding on it, that is a problem for everyone. It always starts off innocent, but someone always gets screwed over, and once they get away with that, they move their financial targets much higher.

 

[biggie]

It seems the article details how one bidder is entering bids into domains with strong reserves just short of meeting the reserve to try, and make it look like interest is there, and maybe goating them into taking the next bid to meet the reserve.

If this is the case, then these are shill bids, as they are not real. It is concerning, as someone is trying to circumvent the bid process. I would say it is shill bidding, if you have no real interest in the domain, and are trying to increase the domain price thru artificial means.

point i'm making is:

the title of this thread and the title of the article referred to, are not the same.


imo...

 

[wwwweb]

There is zero proof of that so far. Title aiming too high.

The examples given in the article, seem pretty damming.

It would be very naive to believe otherwise, given the person seems to hit the domains owned by the same person, that is alarming enough.

Maybe title is a bit baiting, but I don't blame them for trying to shine the spotlight on this, sure beats sweeping it under the rug.

I am sure namejet would be happy if nobody talked about it, or discussed it, but it is an open topic, and people should be made aware.

 

[Asfas1000]

Namejet is in the auctions sector for so long, they should be able to detect incidents like this in a heartbeat.

They don't need any cutting-edge AI system for this either.

It's a common pattern : Bidder Popeye bidding on Bidder Olive's auctions, and only those, up to an amount that marginally misses the reserve, and this amount is "unrealistic" re the domain's value.
This should raise a red flag, and staff should investigate further.

 

[wwwweb]

Namejet is in the auctions sector for so long, they should be able to detect incidents like this in a heartbeat.

They don't need any cutting-edge AI system for this either.

It's a common pattern : Bidder Popeye bidding on Bidder Olive's auctions, and only those, up to an amount that marginally misses the reserve, and this amount is "unrealistic" re the domain's value.
This should raise a red flag, and staff should investigate further.

The fact these were sponsored listings, should provide an added leg up, and the value of the bids another red flag for follow up.

At the end of the day buyer beware, as they are profiting from such actions. With every bid they get 15% of that action, or whatever they take, so really how motivated are they at the end of the day.

Everyone seems to think domainers make so much money, and who cares if they get taxed a bit, they deserve to. If only they knew the real truth of carrying inventory, dealing with renewals, low ball bidders, and non paying bidders, and house commissions, and escrow checkouts where the buyer does not want to verify. Not such an easy business after all.

 

[Recons.Com]

The reserves were so high, I would be surprised of one of those auctions actually completed. I would say it's easier to spot and do research when you have at least nicknames to look at, vs. places like GoDaddy where it's numbers or Flippa where it's Bidder 1, 2, 3 etc. at least with them you can see total value of transactions next to them.

GD has a kind of safety feature for this. You can make a bid only one step higher than the previous bidder. So, in the example above, if the 2nd bidder had only $2000, then the first one would only show $2050.

 

[wwwweb]

The reserves were so high, I would be surprised of one of those auctions actually completed. I would say it's easier to spot and do research when you have at least nicknames to look at, vs. places like GoDaddy where it's numbers or Flippa where it's Bidder 1, 2, 3 etc. at least with them you can see total value of transactions next to them.

That makes sense, but this is just something that was uncovered, obviously with some of these sponsored featured listings there is a lot on the line from a financial standpoint for some of these sellers.

If namejet is not catching this stuff, I don't know what other ghost bidders could be doing thru the system, the username aspect does help for sure. I guess we all need to be on the lookout these days.

 

[wwwweb]

GD has a kind of safety feature for this. You can make a bid only one step higher than the previous bidder. So, in the example above, if the 2nd bidder had only $2000, then the first one would only show $2050.

I have seen weird activity on godaddy reserve auctions, this one time just recently the domain must have had a way out reserve, but it was starting around $100, and I bid $150, then outbid the first bidder, then he outbid me, reserve still not met... so then I bid $250, and then he outbid me with just min bid, but everytime I would just in huge steps upto $500, they would only outbid me by minimum bid, even though it would be a much larger reserve, they were just interested in engaging me, and not pushing thru the reserve which I was doing by jumping bids by $100+.

 

[biggie]

so, you have definitive proof that shill bidding in going on at namejet?


as the title of article , doesn't state this.


imo....

 

[wwwweb]

But that is how GD works...

If 1st bidder bid $1000 and reserve is $1100, min is $100, it will show $100.

You come with $150, then GD would show you as outbid with $155 etc.

I got you, Thank you, I was trying to tap the reserve without getting to crazy, makes sense now you point it out.

 

[Wannabean]

It used to be that namejet had a tag that bid on auctions for names that had reserves to 'boost' them up close to the reserve amount and give the name a chance of selling. I can't remember what the alias was but bet someone else here can...

 

[wwwweb]

Yeah maybe, they profit, why not keep quiet....





That's a fancy description for in-house shill bidding

Or look the other way, that is why it is strange a blog exposed this, when they start it in the face everyday.

Inadvertently they are in a conflict position when they profit from such actions. I have no idea if this person has engaged others into bidding wars with the hopes of pushing the price up for his friend. Will namejet go back, and check, and refund these bidders who were pushed up? I doubt it, they will not even discuss it openly.