Epik.com Locking Policies

[Name Trader]

I've just been told by Epik support that if I purchase a domain from another customer and it's pushed to my account, that it is locked for another 60 days. JUST LIKE @ GODADDY. If this is true, that's me done with Epik as a customer. One of the worst policies GoDaddy has is a new 60 day hold on a push. And now I'm being told it is the same at Epik. That's the end of my experiment with Epik (:

 

[dirk]

It was a manual push Exactly!

Very strange indeed. Unless it's a new registration and there's some time left on the first 60 days there should not be any lock at all.

 

[D Haynes]

I posted my experience with the lock in the Epik Experience thread. You can opt out of the ICANN 60 day lock I. The Epik dashboard but I was told by customer support that they have their own internal 60 day lock that cannot be easily lifted. The rep was unable to lift it and I had to verify my account before @Gube could manually remove the lock (for that one domain). It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to have an opt out for the 60 day lock only to implement another that you have no choice about.

 

[D Haynes]

Not sure if anyone else has said this but just wanted to give a quick note as to my experience transfering a name out of Epik.

Transfering names into Epik has been a breeze. I'm currently moving names from GD to Epik because of the pricing. When moving a name out of GD (as with any registrar) you need to request the auth code and submit it to the new registrar. Shortly after submitting the code you receive an email from GD alerting you that a transfer has been initiated and asking if this is a legitimate action. You can then challenge it, leave it and after 5 days the transfer will go ahead or you can sign into your GD account and approve the transfer and usually within 15 mins its all done and dusted and away you go to self isolate and socially distance.

Transfering away from Epik is slightly different. It took me a couple of days of messing around trying to get the auth code for a domain that sold at Afternic. This is because the domain was moved to Epik within the last 60 days. I had previously opted out of the ICANN 60 day transfer lock but I now know that Epik have their own internal lock (what's the point in having the opt out if there's another lock that does exactly the same thing). I submitted a customer support ticket asking how I can remove the lock and have never recieved any reply. I went onto the live chat at Epik.com and was told by the rep that they didn't have the power to lift the lock and that they would escalate the matter to management and email me with the solution. I never heard heard back from them.
The only way I manged to get the domain unlocked and get an auth code was by contacting @Gube on here. He was very helpfull and after I verified my Epik account he was able to unlock the name and email me an auth code.

Great I thought. Well after giving the code to Afternic TA rep I didn't hear anything for a few days. I assumed the transfer had not been initiated, after all it only takes 15 mins to move a name. I sent TA a few emails but never got any replys so namepros to the rescue again and I messaged Joe from Afternic who told me the transfer was initiated on the 7th. We'll that seem strange as I haven't had any notification from Epik.

Back to Epik live chat it is then where I'm told that yes the transfer has been initiated but it takes 5-7 days to transfer a name out! And no, they don't send you any email notification to confirm the transfer! So does the name just dissappear without notification? This doesn't seem very safe to me and agonisingly slow to move a name out when it took 15 mins to move in. The Swiss Bank of Domains? Legendary Customer Support? Maybe...

Anyway I know that was long winded but the moral of the story is you get nowhere in life unless you're a member of Namepros

Oh and its been 5 days and still no cigar.

Edit - It seems you can go into your account and view the domains being transferred out and approve them although I couldn't find this area to start with and when I approved the transfer it can up with an error so...

Edit 2 - Since this post @Jess Robison has been very helpfull and completed the transfer for me. I just hope this customer service stretches to people who aren't on NP as I fear Joe Public would be stuck.

Edit 3 - Finaly closed the sale yesterday.

 

[D Haynes]

Thats my post from that thread. Would also like to add that I've has no issues with Epik apart from this. I am currently moving my names into Epik as I find their pricing is on point (less that half of GD) and their UI is great. Also being here at NP they are contactable and happy to help resolve situations.

 

[Marka]

I've just been told by Epik support that if I purchase a domain from another customer and it's pushed to my account, that it is locked for another 60 days. JUST LIKE @ GODADDY. If this is true, that's me done with Epik as a customer. One of the worst policies GoDaddy has is a new 60 day hold on a push. And now I'm being told it is the same at Epik. That's the end of my experiment with Epik (:

Hi there!

A 60 day lock is a standard necessity. Thats security and protection system. If you want to transfer all your questions between accounts and registrars, send me a PM and I`m discuss this issue with the team and you personallly.

 

[dirk]

You guys are all aware that generally speaking the 60-day lock policy is there to protect the industry at large right? There's a lot of fraud in any and all industries where there are sales and transactions .. particularly of digital products.

I'll be the first to say it's a pain in the butt .. however the consequences of not having such a lock are far worse than having it.

I think that it most certainly could be reduced down to 35 days .. but removing it completely, while being amazing for domain management .. would have significant consequences in terms of fraud.


That being said .. if ever you need an exception you'd probably be better served talking to @Rob Monster or someone higher up at @epik .. as long as you don't abuse the privilege, I'm sure if the changes of ownership were clear and they get direct consent from the previous owner, they could look into making an exception every now and then. But because of the security aspects I mentioned above, it shouldn't be something too easy to do.

I don't agree. Domain locks are ment to protect the customer. Additional locks imposed upon us by registrars are protecting the registrar/sales venue, not us.

If I want to lock a domain, I'll just lock it myself. Forced locks are never in the owners best interest.

 

[Name Trader]

Very strange indeed. Unless it's a new registration and there's some time left on the first 60 days there should not be any lock at all.

It's less than two months to expiry, and 1.5 months from the 60 day expiry

 

[Name Trader]

Hi there!

A 60 day lock is a standard necessity. Thats security and protection system. If you want to transfer all your questions between accounts and registrars, send me a PM and I`m discuss this issue with the team and you personallly.

I've DM'd you with my case. But I do not accept your reasoning for a domain received by a push being locked unnecessarily for 60 days. Whois it that protecting? Certainly not me, or the previous owner.

 

[Rob Monster]

The only locks we actually enforce are the first 60 days of a domain's life.

The other locks of 60-day wait between registrants mainly exist to prevent fraudulent conveyance of a domain through daisy chain of registrar hopping that would make IRTP almost impossible for unwinding a domain sale.

For example, last night, we were informed by Web.com that a 5L brandable .com domain bought by a customer on May 12 at Sedo was stolen goods. The domain had just arrived.

In this case, the domain buyer should be able to get a refund from Sedo as a condition for unwinding that transfer. I am guessing Web.com will end up paying off Sedo if they can't track down the seller.

Now, imagine if between May 12 and today the domain had hopped between 3 or 4 registrars. It would have been almost impossible to unwind.

So, no, we don't enforce arbitrary locks and will almost always remove them upon request, but I believe that is the reason why the 60-day cooling off period exists.

For escrow transactions, we don't enforce these locks unless the buyer is paying with a credit card or PayPal where there are reasonable forensic concerns that the transaction is high risk.

The good news is that we actually take the time to review cases, and use increasingly smart analytics to manage those risks. The DNProtect.com project will take this very far in terms of:

- Domain Risk Assessment
- Domain Insurance
- Domain Monitoring for future impairment

@bhartzer is leading that for Epik -- a very ambitious project that is making steady progress.

See related info:

https://www.icann.org/public-comments/irtp-status-2018-11-14-en

 

[karmaco]

Hi there!

A 60 day lock is a standard necessity. Thats security and protection system. If you want to transfer all your questions between accounts and registrars, send me a PM and I`m discuss this issue with the team and you personallly.

Its not industry standard to lock even from pushes.

 

[D Haynes]

The only locks we actually enforce are the first 60 days of a domain's life.

The other locks of 60-day wait between registrants mainly exist to prevent fraudulent conveyance of a domain through daisy chain of registrar hopping that would make IRTP almost impossible for unwinding a domain sale.

For example, last night, we were informed by Web.com that a 5L brandable .com domain bought by a customer on May 12 at Sedo was stolen goods. The domain had just arrived.

In this case, the domain buyer should be able to get a refund from Sedo as a condition for unwinding that transfer. I am guessing Web.com will end up paying off Sedo if they can't track down the seller.

Now, imagine if between May 12 and today the domain had hopped between 3 or 4 registrars. It would have been almost impossible to unwind.

So, no, we don't enforce arbitrary locks and will almost always remove them upon request, but I believe that is the reason why the 60-day cooling off period exists.

For escrow transactions, we don't enforce these locks unless the buyer is paying with a credit card or PayPal where there are reasonable forensic concerns that the transaction is high risk.

The good news is that we actually take the time to review cases, and use increasingly smart analytics to manage those risks. The DNProtect.com project will take this very far in terms of:

- Domain Risk Assessment
- Domain Insurance
- Domain Monitoring for future impairment

@bhartzer is leading that for Epik -- a very ambitious project that is making steady progress.

See related info:

https://www.icann.org/public-comments/irtp-status-2018-11-14-en

When I requested the domain be unlocked I had to verify my account even though I have my account PIN. Now my account is veryfied will I be able to unlock my domains just by asking the live chat reps?

 

[Rob Monster]

When I requested the domain be unlocked I had to verify my account even though I have my account PIN. Now my account is veryfied will I be able to unlock my domains just by asking the live chat reps?

Yup, account was already approved for early pushes, bypassing the 60 day lock requirement. If you run into any push issues or transfer issues, contact @Jess Robison, @Sufyan Alani and we'll see what's up.

For folks with verified accounts, we'll be bringing forward a number of process automations related to domain movement and real-time cash out of proceeds.

That's why verification matters -- it is not to get into people's privacy or external regulators. This is just to allow process automation where we don't get scammed.

 

[Ategy]

I don't agree. Domain locks are ment to protect the customer. Additional locks imposed upon us by registrars are protecting the registrar/sales venue, not us.

I think maybe I'm a little unclear on the specifics here. Locks are supposed to happen when there is an ownership change. Usually triggered by a change in the name of a whois owner .. and sometimes a change in email.

Some registrars give a one-time option to impose or not impose the lock when the change is made.

When I say the rule is meant to protect the industry at large then that definitely includes us. Just do a search here at NP and you'll see tons of examples of stolen domains. Yes it is a pain, but it's not there for nothing .. it's simply the lesser of two evils.


As for Epik specifically, their current state and size is a massive bonus to you and all their customers. Compared to GD, they are (relatively) small and nimble (and caring) enough to make exceptions when it makes sense. I personally think that's amazing because it still leaves a general level of protection, while still allowing us to be flexible in the cases where we need an exception.

I actually have the perfect example. In April I transferred a domain that I owned a couple of years over to Epik. Then yesterday I got an email from Afternic saying there was an offer on the domain. After negotiating the price up, it looks like I'm going to make a sale. Since I was the previous owner of the domain at the other registrar (I'm assuming @Rob Monster can see and confirm that with some of the various WhoIs historic tools), then it's a very simply and risk-free unlock (if it needs to be done for Afternic to complete the sale).

 

[Grilled]

In this case, the domain buyer should be able to get a refund from Sedo as a condition for unwinding that transfer. I am guessing Web.com will end up paying off Sedo if they can't track down the seller.

Since when does Sedo issue refunds for stolen domain purchases?

See/Help @Daehler Ralph if that's the case.

Per his experience on the CWR.com thread

I have a very important message for all domainers. I have bought 1 month ago the domain cwr.com (Registrar Networksolutions) over Sedo for USD 19950 and the transfer happened successful after a few problems with an invalid Authorization Code for a transfer to my GoDaddy account, I decided to takeover the domain to my account by Networksolutions. But yesterday Network Solution has transferred the domain back to the old owner without any information. I have opened a ticket by Network Solution and they explained me that the domain was hijacked and sold later and also back transferred to the old owner.

Sedo hasn't checked well the whois-Informations with the seller contact information, which was somebody from Mexico.

Now I have lost my money and for Sedo is the task closed when the domain is transferred.

A warning on all domainers that can happen to everybody which buy a domain on a non-registrar-platform like Sedo.

Also, since when does Web.com (or network solutions) pay off Sedo (or other marketplaces) if they can't track down the seller?

I don't believe Web.com (or network solutions) had paid off @BoothDomains when he purchased an alleged stolen domain from somebody alleging to be the domain owner, @spoiltrider,

In fact, @BoothDomains resorted to (hiring, retained, or whatever the proper word is when you have a lawyer represent you) @Zak Muscovitch to represent him. To attempt to have the domain owner (@spoiltrider) pay @Zak Muscovitch $25k to facilitate the return of CQD.com from @BoothDomains and back to @spoiltrider .

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't believe that @BoothDomains was ever refunded the funds he allegedly lost in his alleged purchase of CQD.com. Be it by escrow.com, web.com, networksolutions.com. But, a lawyer got involved, so maybe I'm wrong.

 

[dirk]

That's why verification matters -- it is not to get into people's privacy or external regulators. This is just to allow process automation where we don't get scammed.

Out of curiosity, what you need from the user to verify the account?

Even if it is like you say, and a verified account can easily have a lock lifted, the gaining account will end up with a locked domain.

I can think of a lot of reasons why this would be undesirable.

 

[Rob Monster]

Since when does Sedo issue refunds for stolen domain purchases?

See/Help @Daehler Ralph if that's the case.

Per his experience on the CWR.com thread



Also, since when does Web.com (or network solutions) pay off Sedo (or other marketplaces) if they can't track down the seller?

I don't believe Web.com (or network solutions) had paid off @BoothDomains when he purchased an alleged stolen domain from somebody alleging to be the domain owner, @spoiltrider,

If fact, @BoothDomains resulted to hiring @Zak Muscovitch to represent him. To attempt to have the domain owner (@spoiltrider) pay @Zak Muscovitch $25k to facilitate the return of CQD.com from @BoothDomains and back to @spoiltrider .

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't believe that @BoothDomains was ever refunded the fundeds he allegedly lost in his alleged purchase of CQD.com. Be it by escrow.com, web.com, networksolutions.com. But, a lawyer got involved, so maybe I'm wrong.

Earlier today, I spoke with the registrant @domainduude who paid $650 for a domain on Sedo ~10 days ago, paid via credit card. If the domain was not sold in good faith, he will be able to do a chargeback and we would provide evidence to support his claim that he was sold impaired goods.

If Sedo is smart, they will step up and clean up the mess, and chase down the seller. In the meantime, the domain is safely at Epik and sitting in the registrant's account while the various stakeholders clean up their mess.

Thankfully it is a small transaction and Sedo is able to do the honorable thing since they presided over the transaction.

As for cleaning up other people's messes, it is no secret that I sometimes assist as ombudsman in cases where I think I can be of some assistance. Sometimes people can be pragmatically brought to some amicable resolution. And sometimes egos get in the way, and those tend to not get cleaned up.

 

[dirk]

I think maybe I'm a little unclear on the specifics here. Locks are supposed to happen when there is an ownership change. Usually triggered by a change in the name of a whois owner .. and sometimes a change in email.

Some registrars give a one-time option to impose or not impose the lock when the change is made.

When I say the rule is meant to protect the industry at large then that definitely includes us. Just do a search here at NP and you'll see tons of examples of stolen domains. Yes it is a pain, but it's not there for nothing .. it's simply the lesser of two evils.


As for Epik specifically, their current state and size is a massive bonus to you and all their customers. Compared to GD, they are (relatively) small and nimble (and caring) enough to make exceptions when it makes sense. I personally think that's amazing because it still leaves a general level of protection, while still allowing us to be flexible in the cases where we need an exception.

I actually have the perfect example. In April I transferred a domain that I owned a couple of years over to Epik. Then yesterday I got an email from Afternic saying there was an offer on the domain. After negotiating the price up, it looks like I'm going to make a sale. Since I was the previous owner of the domain at the other registrar (I'm assuming @Rob Monster can see and confirm that with some of the various WhoIs historic tools), then it's a very simply and risk-free unlock (if it needs to be done for Afternic to complete the sale).

Oh I definitely agree that it's awesome they're willing to judge things on a case by case basis. That's the power of Epik generally speaking. They're approachable and get shit done.

Now let me give you this example. A while ago I sold a domain held at Epik that got locked. Couldn't unlock 'supposedly'. The buyer wanted to have nothing to do with Epik as he didn't know the company. So I needed to transfer out.

Lucky he didn't mind waiting for 2 weeks untill I was able to transfer out but it is situations like this that can kill a sale.

Same if we would have decided to push it to his account. The name would get locked for 60 days and he would have been stuck there. Lets face it, a lot of endusers don't want or need their names to be at Epik. Obstacles like these keep people from using Epik.

 

[Ronald Regging]

How did the domain industry ever survive before these new and improved policies were incorporated? It's almost like they would have us believe that fraud is a new thing. The world may never know...

 

[Rob Monster]

Oh I definitely agree that it's awesome they're willing to judge things on a case by case basis. That's the power of Epik generally speaking. They're approachable and get shit done.

Now let me give you this example. A while ago I sold a domain held at Epik that got locked. Couldn't unlock 'supposedly'. The buyer wanted to have nothing to do with Epik as he didn't know the company. So I needed to transfer out.

Lucky he didn't mind waiting for 2 weeks untill I was able to transfer out but it is situations like this that can kill a sale.

Same if we would have decided to push it to his account. The name would get locked for 60 days and he would have been stuck there. Lets face it, a lot of endusers don't want or need their names to be at Epik. Obstacles like these keep people from using Epik.

As you say, we get stuff done. If some deal is at risk due to an Epik policy, we can almost always fast-track a resolution 7 days a week. Fact.

 

[Rob Monster]

How did the domain industry ever survive before these new and improved policies were incorporated? It's almost like they would have us believe that fraud is a new thing. The world may never know...

Fraud happens in domaining. As people get more desperate, more fraud happens. In my experience, the all-knowing and all-seeing God of the universe who allows someone to be presented with the temptation to commit blatant fraud will also provide the way out. If everyone in the industry chooses wisely, it will help make it even more inviting for new industry participants without triggering more regulatory nonsense.