Epik.com Locking Policies

[Name Trader]

I've just been told by Epik support that if I purchase a domain from another customer and it's pushed to my account, that it is locked for another 60 days. JUST LIKE @ GODADDY. If this is true, that's me done with Epik as a customer. One of the worst policies GoDaddy has is a new 60 day hold on a push. And now I'm being told it is the same at Epik. That's the end of my experiment with Epik (:

 

[Ronald Regging]

If everyone in the industry chooses wisely, it will help make it even more inviting for new industry participants without triggering more regulatory nonsense.

Again, the industry has been mostly unregulated for decades. Are there any studies showing that domain fraud is increasing and becoming a huge problem where it never was before? I would personally argue for more regulation in some ways due to the fact that registrars are censoring domains based on website content and also incorporating policies such as yours to unduly burden it's customers.

 

[Rob Monster]

Again, the industry has been mostly unregulated for decades. Are there any studies showing that domain fraud is increasing and becoming a huge problem where it never was before? I would personally argue for more regulation in some ways due to the fact that registrars are censoring domains based on website content and also incorporating policies such as yours to unduly burden it's customers.

ICYMI, @epik has carried about as much burden for registrant rights as anyone both externally in the media, but also internally as a member of the ICANN registrar stakeholder group. We are not advocating for more regulatory intervention -- quite the contrary. I would give you screen shots of these discussions but since the ICANN Registrar stakeholder group is governed by Chatham House rules, you will have to settle my assurance that there are some folks that are going to bat regularly, and I would include EasyDNS, Tucows and Epik as among the most active on holding the line there.

 

[Grilled]

Again, the industry has been mostly unregulated for decades. Are there any studies showing that domain fraud is increasing and becoming a huge problem where it never was before?

Great point.

There are recent opinion pieces published on main stream media.

Such as:

[Forbes] Why the largest cyber attack in history COULD happen within six months [May 14th, 2020]

But that article is generic to cyber attacks, and is citing the current pandemic as contributing increased factors that could lead to such.

<< Also, as a kind of messed up tactic by Forbes.com, the URL conatins
why-the-largest-cyberattack-in-history-will-happen-within-six-months
But the headline on the article says could happen. I wonder if that is intentional? >>

With regards to fraud in the domain industry.

One would have to open the domain history book
to see where fraud was at prior,
to know if current levels of fraud,
have risen to a huge problem,
unlike never before.

Searching...
both public information, and***
*** private information domainers try to keep secret. I think I heard an epik employee talk about (in a public zoom conference) domainings history of domainers in hotel rooms bidding on each other domains. I could try to dig that excerpt up if anyone is interested.

I would personally argue for more regulation in some ways due to the fact that registrars are censoring domains based on website content and also incorporating policies such as yours to unduly burden it's customers.

As the world evolves, hopefully the internet will too.

Fear of eternal damnation shouldn't be the only fraud deterrent if it's possible to add logical processes in its place.

 

[Marka]

Out of curiosity, what you need from the user to verify the account?

Even if it is like you say, and a verified account can easily have a lock lifted, the gaining account will end up with a locked domain.

I can think of a lot of reasons why this would be undesirable.

The verification process takes a maximum of 12 hours. It is necessary to confirm operations with domains if you are a professional client with a large portfolio. Depending on the region, the support service may request different documents that confirm your identity.

 

[Marka]

Great point.

There are recent opinion pieces published on main stream media.

Such as:

[Forbes] Why the largest cyber attack in history COULD happen within six months [May 14th, 2020]

But that article is generic to cyber attacks, and is citing the current pandemic as contributing increased factors that could lead to such.

<< Also, as a kind of messed up tactic by Forbes.com, the URL conatins
why-the-largest-cyberattack-in-history-will-happen-within-six-months
But the headline on the article says could happen. I wonder if that is intentional? >>

With regards to fraud in the domain industry.

One would have to open the domain history book
to see where fraud was at prior,
to know if current levels of fraud,
have risen to a huge problem,
unlike never before.

Searching...
both public information, and***
*** private information domainers try to keep secret. I think I heard an epik employee talk about (in a public zoom conference) domainings history of domainers in hotel rooms bidding on each other domains. I could try to dig that excerpt up if anyone is interested.



As the world evolves, hopefully the internet will too.

Fear of eternal damnation shouldn't be the only fraud deterrent if it's possible to add logical processes in its place.

Where there is a lot of money, there will be fraud by default. I have read a lot of stories about this and so I can say with confidence that the actions of all registrars in recent years are aimed not only to expand the possibilities of buying/selling, but also security.

I read your article in Forbes. This is fortune-telling on coffee grounds. If an attack occurs, it will affect the most popular and vulnerable sectors. Personal data of users of Zoom, Hangouts, and other services.

Even against the background of a General pandemic, no one will forget about privacy and security. Therefore, there is no need to worry again. Just make sure that you have two-factor authentication installed and that you have a good password.

 

[Grilled]

I read your article in Forbes. This is fortune-telling on coffee grounds.

Not my article; just an article I shared.

And on the URL/Article headline discrepancies alone,

<< Also, as a kind of messed up tactic by Forbes.com, the URL conatins
why-the-largest-cyberattack-in-history-will-happen-within-six-months
But the headline on the article says could happen. I wonder if that is intentional? >>

one can infer the fortune-telling narrative,
without even having to read the article.

#clickbait but imagine the information spread (as with most main stream media) that occurs once published on a trusted site such as Forbes.

Are URLs (after the dot com) subject to the same scrutiny that article headlines are?

There seems to be quite a difference when saying something will happen compared to something could happen.

I think in the simplest form, that could be the basis of this thread.

One member possibly feeling a lock was put in place due to something that could happen, which was contrary to what the member believed will happen**

**will happen situationally dependent.

 

[Name Trader]

Everybody is just prevaricating here. @Rob Monster.

This is my request and the reply @Makise sent me. The title was the Domain Name in question.

Hi Makise,

OK. My username is XXXXXXX. I don't take you first premise as necessarily true. There are many registrars which don't hold a domain hostage (although it's still my domain) due to an internal push. Which is what has happened in this case. I don't accept there is any reason for me to not be able to transfer this domain. It was purchased from the previous owner of this domain, here on NPs. All Epik staff seem to disagree with this assessment. But at most registrars, I could do this, if it wasn't locked for 60 days.

I'm therefore asking that the lock is lifted for this domain, and if there is another lock in place which is harder to have unlocked, I need you to appeal to top management to have that lifted too. Also. As I have learned from that thread on NPs, that I can request that one, other, or both these locks can be lifted permanently, by placing a simple request. So I an requesting this permanent lifting of whichever lock(s) can be permanently lifted.

rgds
stu

and her reply

Hi! I receive a message from our CS director.

We cannot remove the 60-day lock due to the recent purchase. Most if not all Registrar's put a 60 day lock on domains that are newly purchase or if the Registrant details are updated.

If I read the post correctly, he did not make the purchase but someone else did and then pushed it to his Epik account. Who was the original buyer (the person that paid for the domain)?

Please specify all the necessary information.

Now I represent a Epik, but don 't forget that the user's opinion may not be
the same as the company's. Most often, I send messages as a regular user.

You can read for yourselves if I said anything like Epik's CS Director was suggesting. I think not. They get one more chance to fix this. My patience is now at breaking point.

 

[Rob Monster]

Everybody is just prevaricating here. @Rob Monster.

This is my request and the reply @Makise sent me. The title was the Domain Name in question.



and her reply



You can read for yourselves if I said anything like Epik's CS Director was suggesting. I think not. They get one more chance to fix this. My patience is now at breaking point.

@stub - I don't know what motivates someone to produce such a nonsense but let's be clear. I don't know who you are in real life. If you were ever an Epik client, it would have been small-time.

You are obviously very active here with an ASTOUNDiNG 24,000 posts. That's great. I suggest don't waste your reputation on a cheap shot. My advice is to have this thread deleted.

The funny thing about your silly thread is that in the span of 12 minutes, we have the following 3 folks contributing to this post:

Your registrar is Dynadot:

As for XYNames?

As for Grilled, he has been consistently subversive for weeks, enough for many folks to either take a break or quit NamePros entirely. The Moderators allow this nonsense.

Do you think people don't connect the dots? Of course they do. Like it or not, discerning people can and do spot the difference. People are not that stupid, guys. Sorry to disappoint you.

When folks conspire to produce rhetoric to align with a subversive agenda, you will find my engagement will be limited to calling out the nonsense that propagates it.

As for your opening premise, there is a fully operational policy of waiving 60-day locks upon request for unverified customers. For verified customers, it is typically not even in place.

In short, if your arbitrary interpretation of our transfer lock policy is the argument for why people would not overwhelmingly choose Epik as registrar, it is a weak case.

If you want to thoughtfully engage as a vested stakeholder in building the world's greatest registrar, I will sit down with you for as long as you like to review your feedback.

I think I sum it up nicely here:

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6650803591445569536/

Those were not prepared remarks. It was a sincere statement from my heart, including the comment about embracing those who hold us to a higher standard. If that's you, I can accept that and respect it.

Hope that helps.

 

[equity78]

Since when does Sedo issue refunds for stolen domain purchases?

See/Help @Daehler Ralph if that's the case.

Per his experience on the CWR.com thread



Also, since when does Web.com (or network solutions) pay off Sedo (or other marketplaces) if they can't track down the seller?

I don't believe Web.com (or network solutions) had paid off @BoothDomains when he purchased an alleged stolen domain from somebody alleging to be the domain owner, @spoiltrider,

In fact, @BoothDomains resorted to (hiring, retained, or whatever the proper word is when you have a lawyer represent you) @Zak Muscovitch to represent him. To attempt to have the domain owner (@spoiltrider) pay @Zak Muscovitch $25k to facilitate the return of CQD.com from @BoothDomains and back to @spoiltrider .

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't believe that @BoothDomains was ever refunded the funds he allegedly lost in his alleged purchase of CQD.com. Be it by escrow.com, web.com, networksolutions.com. But, a lawyer got involved, so maybe I'm wrong.

Sedo does not refund you.

For an article I have not yet published because it's gotten more complicated and making sure all info is 100% accurate.

But Carolyn at Sedo was good enough to talk to their people and get me the direct answer

Unfortunately, as with anything sold on a secondary market, buyers bear a degree of risk that a domain was once stolen or that the seller has otherwise violated the terms of the purchase and sale agreement. While Sedo employs strict marketplace terms and conditions, between WHOIS privacy and disparate registry policies, it is impossible for Sedo or anyone to guarantee that a domain has never been stolen or remains subject to any other kind of legal dispute. The domain’s registrar, ICANN, or a court of law are the venues to resolve any dispute and Sedo gives our full cooperation once a dispute has been initiated.


We empathize with our buyer’s desire to eliminate that risk entirely but we ask buyers to perform their due diligence research prior to agreeing to a purchase (especially to ensure that their purchase or intended use does not violate a third party’s trademark which is a key element in UDRP proceedings) and to review their registrar policies on how they would handle a claim of domain theft.


Sedo does help our buyers minimize risk by requiring sellers to provide a legally binding representation and warranty that they have the authority to sell the name. Once a purchase and sale has been completed, however, Sedo cannot return the funds paid to a seller as we are not an appropriate party to arbitrate a dispute. If a domain is later taken away from a buyer because of the seller’s violation of the purchase and sale agreement Sedo advises the buyer to seek legal counsel to pursue the seller for breach of contract and will support the buyer by providing a documentation history regarding the transaction. This allows a buyer who ends up losing the domain because of theft to pursue the seller for a refund/damages.

 

[equity78]

Paul Nicks was kind enough to get GoDaddy Legal to answer

If I buy a domain at GoDaddy or Afternic, pay for it, goes through fine, you get the name pushed to you and you push to me, and somewhere down the road, someone comes back to me and says this name is stolen, and I lose that name either through the registrar taking it back, or a UDRP or any other process. Will GoDaddy/Afternic reimburse me for the stolen goods I purchased on their website?

The GoDaddy legal email is an auto reply, Sedo needed to speak to their legal team too, so I understand, I just wanted to make sure I could give GoDaddy's response in the article on how all marketplaces deal with theft and a customer left holding the bag.

Thank you

GoDaddy reply:

Sorry for delay. Here's our statement


When a customer lists a domain for sale at GoDaddy, they must state they are authorized to list and sell the domain name. If we find out a domain name has been stolen, we promptly remove it from the auction platform and ban the user.


One a domain auction is completed and there is a dispute regarding the rightful ownership of a domain, we do not get involved in the resolution of the dispute. That issue needs to be handled in the appropriate court of law.

 

[Grilled]

Sedo does not refund you.

That was my understanding.

But it sounds like @Rob Monster was trying to spin it differently.

Earlier today, I spoke with the registrant @domainduude who paid $650 for a domain on Sedo ~10 days ago, paid via credit card. If the domain was not sold in good faith, he will be able to do a chargeback and we would provide evidence to support his claim that he was sold impaired goods.

....

Very professional of you Mr. @Rob Monster.

@stub - I don't know what motivates someone to produce such a nonsense but let's be clear. I don't know who you are in real life. If you were ever an Epik client, it would have been small-time.

You are obviously very active here with an ASTOUNDiNG 24,000 posts. That's great. I suggest don't waste your reputation on a cheap shot. My advice is to have this thread deleted.

The funny thing about your silly thread is that in the span of 12 minutes, we have the following 3 folks contributing to this post:

Anybody else you want to include regarding those allegedly conspiring against epik?

No mentioning of @GeorgeSoros this time around trying to dodge responsibility and project nonsensical blame?

 

[Grilled]

Soros? Politicize this thread?

I'm sorry.

Would you rather I follow robs lead?

And start commenting about others commenting?

We've been down that road before.

Looks like folks are starting to realize that epik might be a shady company.

I still hold hope for otherwise. But based on the behind the scenes chatter of others feeling
intimidated by the epik culture to come forward publicly, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it might be a duck.

 

[Samer]

I'm sorry.

Would you rather I follow robs lead?

And start commenting about others commenting?

We've been down that road before.

Looks like folks are starting to realize that epik is a shady company.

I still hold hope for otherwise. But based on the behind the scenes chatter of others feeling
intimidated by the epik culture to come forward publicly, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it might be a duck.

Epik does everything out in the open;

Epik CEO is here for crying out load!

Samer

 

[Grilled]

Epik does everything out in the open;

Even flashers dress up before going outside.

Their CEO is here for ****ing out load;

Load?

A load of something is right.

 

[Name Trader]

@stub - I don't know what motivates someone to produce such a nonsense but let's be clear. I don't know who you are in real life. If you were ever an Epik client, it would have been small-time.

You are obviously very active here with an ASTOUNDiNG 24,000 posts. That's great. I suggest don't waste your reputation on a cheap shot. My advice is to have this thread deleted.

The funny thing about your silly thread is that in the span of 12 minutes, we have the following 3 folks contributing to this post:


Show attachment 155109

Your registrar is Dynadot:

Show attachment 155108

As for XYNames?

Show attachment 155110


As for Grilled, he has been consistently subversive for weeks, enough for many folks to either take a break or quit NamePros entirely. The Moderators allow this nonsense.

Do you think people don't connect the dots? Of course they do. Like it or not, discerning people can and do spot the difference. People are not that stupid, guys. Sorry to disappoint you.

When folks conspire to produce rhetoric to align with a subversive agenda, you will find my engagement will be limited to calling out the nonsense that propagates it.

As for your opening premise, there is a fully operational policy of waiving 60-day locks upon request for unverified customers. For verified customers, it is typically not even in place.

In short, if your arbitrary interpretation of our transfer lock policy is the argument for why people would not overwhelmingly choose Epik as registrar, it is a weak case.

If you want to thoughtfully engage as a vested stakeholder in building the world's greatest registrar, I will sit down with you for as long as you like to review your feedback.

I think I sum it up nicely here:

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6650803591445569536/

Those were not prepared remarks. It was a sincere statement from my heart, including the comment about embracing those who hold us to a higher standard. If that's you, I can accept that and respect it.

Hope that helps.

OK. I don't know who you are either allowing other members of Epik to priviledges which are not allowed to all. If there is any fraulent activity about the domain I bought, why don't you just inform me of this. But NO. You go on a lecture about me, and my membership of NP's. Nobody has yet informed me about any fraudulent activity on the domain in question. So in my mind, there should NOT be any 60 day hold. IN YOUR OWN WORDS. 'Nuff said.

 

[Name Trader]

OK. @Rob Monster has resolved all the issues with the domain in question. So I'm satisfied. There is probably a "teachable moment" in here for his staff.

 

[Rob Monster]

OK. @Rob Monster has resolved all the issues with the domain in question. So I'm satisfied. There is probably a "teachable moment" in here for his staff.

Not going to debate it. Glad it got solved.

General advice:

1. Say hello. I now know who Stub is. I had no idea he had an account with Epik. He bought 1 domain in 2017 so was not hard to overlook. Nevertheless, happy to say hi to folks.

2. If there is an issue, just reach out -- @Sufyan Alani, @Jess Robison and I are all reachable for resolving issues where policy is not giving you what you need.

3. If you have plans to use Epik, it is a really good idea to get verified. That feature is here:

https://registrar.epik.com/account/verification/

It is free, and allows us to automate more steps for your account, especially for fast cash-outs from domain sales and leases. This is already among the fastest in the industry.

 

[karmaco]

Epik does everything out in the open;

Epik CEO is here for crying out load!

Samer

That is not true Samer. They took it upon themselves to start complete locking recent transfers a few months back with no announcement or explanation. I hardly call that out in the open. So when you transfer a domain you have no control over it for 60 days even no internal pushes unless you do their forced ID verification.

I don’t recall any verification of my ID when I spent thousands and thousands there before that. A side to side push is zero risk as its at the same registrar. People change names all the time especially in the brandable niche and if its not an Epik transaction they should have no involvement in our pushes or demands for ID verification. Do they demand ID for the account you wish to push it to? No so far. Nothing is consistent about this policy.

 

[dirk]

3. If you have plans to use Epik, it is a really good idea to get verified. That feature is here:

https://registrar.epik.com/account/verification/

It is free, and allows us to automate more steps for your account, especially for fast cash-outs from domain sales and leases. This is already among the fastest in the industry.

Do you guys delete the ID right after it has been verified? I trust you guys but am careful about sending out copies of my passport.

 

[jideofor]

I've just been told by Epik support that if I purchase a domain from another customer and it's pushed to my account, that it is locked for another 60 days. JUST LIKE @ GODADDY. If this is true, that's me done with Epik as a customer. One of the worst policies GoDaddy has is a new 60 day hold on a push. And now I'm being told it is the same at Epik. That's the end of my experiment with Epik (:

You should create your own registrar, I think!