debate Environmental Thread does anyone care that Amazon Rain Forest is burning down to the ground

[oldtimer]

This is a total catastrophe and failure for the World and humanity at large. There are some things that surpass national boundaries and borders like Human Rights and certain Environmental issues that affect the whole Globe which surely should be of concern to all of us. Whether it’s the Oceans and Rivers that have been polluted or whether it’s our air and soil that have been poisoned, it all has something to do with human activity like the Global Warming and the Melting of the Ice Caps and Glaciers which is going to put many coastal Cities and Communities under water soon. IMO

Everyone’s opinions are welcomed, but keep your comments constructive, professional, and on topic. Personal attacks and belittling of others are not tolerated.

 

[Compassion]

Yeah, you're totally gone. NASA folk, probably some of the smartest people you'll ever meet..

Yes, I know NASA people, I know people of all walks. As most people are - NASA people are primarily well-meaning and very smart indeed.

However, most are bricks in a pyramid and they specialize in their brick without knowledge of what sits atop the pyramid or what lurks in the bricks far way from theirs.

 

[Compassion]

An oldie, but goodie...

I wonder who wrote this?
http://chemtrailforecast.com/blog/nasas-contrail-watching-for-kids/

 

[JB Lions]

Is there anything that they can do to prevent these fires from growing so fast and destroying such large areas.

Why not get some volunteers to clean up all the underbrush and twigs that fuel these fires, maybe they can even thin out the trees so that they won't be so close together, perhaps they can make some fire barriers so even if a fire is started it won't spread too far, now I understand that they are probably doing a lot of this already, but they need to expand it further and do it at much larger scale.

And I believe that the power company should do more in upgrading their system by putting in stronger power lines that don't break so easily with a little wind, I mean there are no hurricanes in California so how old and weak are these power lines that they break every time there is a gust of wind.

I also still believe that if the power company is going to shut off the power for several days then they should build some power stations (solar or generator) in several strategic locations in the affected areas so that people can charge up their electronic devices (and their electric cars).

IMO

Not an expert on this at all, I just remember having to rake the yard when I was a kid, how long that took. Or 2 years ago when a hurricane came thru and how long it took to pick up all the twigs/debris. That was just my yard. Now imagine many square miles and after you're done, twigs keep falling. So yeah, it could help but it seems more of a reason climate change deniers give, it's your fault because you didn't rake the forest. It's a pretty much impossible task it seems.

I always wondered why not just bury the lines. They do that in Germany. That would help in Florida as well with all the hurricanes and power going out.

Why not bury California's fire-prone power lines underground? The reason is sky high

It's expensive as hell and would take a long time:

"It costs about $3 million per mile to convert underground electric distribution lines from overhead, while the cost to build a mile of new overhead line is less than a third of that, at approximately $800,000 per mile, according to a section on PG&E's website called Facts About Undergrounding Power Lines.".....

Less than 100 miles per year are transitioned underground, meaning it would take more than 1,000 years to underground all the lines at the current rate."

https://www.desertsun.com/story/new...ia-fire-prone-power-lines-why-not/3937653002/

But then I'm thinking, it'll cost more now, but over time will save a lot more money and lives.

But like I said, I'm not an expert on this, not an electrician or anything. I just know there are places in the world that bury the lines and it's better.

 

[oldtimer]

Not an expert on this at all, I just remember having to rake the yard when I was a kid, how long that took. Or 2 years ago when a hurricane came thru and how long it took to pick up all the twigs/debris. That was just my yard. Now imagine many square miles and after you're done, twigs keep falling. So yeah, it could help but it seems more of a reason climate change deniers give, it's your fault because you didn't rake the forest. It's a pretty much impossible task it seems.

I always wondered why not just bury the lines. They do that in Germany. That would help in Florida as well with all the hurricanes and power going out.

Why not bury California's fire-prone power lines underground? The reason is sky high

It's expensive as hell and would take a long time:

"It costs about $3 million per mile to convert underground electric distribution lines from overhead, while the cost to build a mile of new overhead line is less than a third of that, at approximately $800,000 per mile, according to a section on PG&E's website called Facts About Undergrounding Power Lines.".....

Less than 100 miles per year are transitioned underground, meaning it would take more than 1,000 years to underground all the lines at the current rate."

https://www.desertsun.com/story/new...ia-fire-prone-power-lines-why-not/3937653002/

But then I'm thinking, it'll cost more now, but over time will save a lot more money and lives.

But like I said, I'm not an expert on this, not an electrician or anything. I just know there are places in the world that bury the lines and it's better.

As far as cleaning the underbrush and twigs go I know it's a huge task, but it's not impossible. It can create a lot of good jobs if they put some of the unemployed people to work full time on this along side all the volunteers. They can also ask for help from all the younger generations that have rerecently become environmentally aware and want to do something good for their Planet. If they start an Environmental tourism program they might be able to get people to come over from all over the Nation (or the World) to help out just for the fun of it.

As far as burying the power lines I believe it's a good idea, but it can only be done in places that have the right geographical conditions. In California where there is a greater chance for earthquakes and in Florida where there are a lot of sink holes perhaps it's a better idea to have the power lines above ground so that they can be inspected easier. All they have to do is to make the electric lines and poles stronger so that they won't break every time there is a little high winds.

IMO

 

[JB Lions]

As far as cleaning the underbrush and twigs go I know it's a huge task, but it's not impossible. It can create a lot of good jobs if they put some of the unemployed people to work full time on this along side all the volunteers. They can also ask for help from all the younger generations that have rerecently become environmentally aware and want to do something good for their Planet. If they start an Environmental tourism program they might be able to get people to come over from all over the Nation (or the World) to help out just for the fun of it.

Remember the video I posted of the Netflix documentary about the farm. They had environmentally helpful kids come out and help. They were with other people, out in nature, working with animals, growing food etc. This forest raking is basically yard work. It's not a 1 time deal. If you rake your yard, that's not it. You have to rake it again and again. Think of standing in the middle of a forest, now think of raking it. It's kind of madness. Then, if you do cleanup the ground, you still have all those trees, which are basically like big matches. You strike a match in a matchbook, the other matches will soon light up.

 

[oldtimer]

Remember the video I posted of the Netflix documentary about the farm. They had environmentally helpful kids come out and help. They were with other people, out in nature, working with animals, growing food etc. This forest raking is basically yard work. It's not a 1 time deal. If you rake your yard, that's not it. You have to rake it again and again. Think of standing in the middle of a forest, now think of raking it. It's kind of madness. Then, if you do cleanup the ground, you still have all those trees, which are basically like big matches. You strike a match in a matchbook, the other matches will soon light up.

I am not saying it's going to be easy to do this, I am just saying that if they organize a very large group of people compiled of volunteers and paid workers they might be able to at least put a dent in this problem especially in the areas that are more vulnerable. The other alternative is to do nothing and just watch more and more areas get devastated as global warming is surely going to make this problem worse in the coming years.

Yes, upgrading the electric lines and poles to make them much more stronger and raking the forest and thinning out the number of trees so that there will be some open space between them is what is going to take to bring this problem under control and if there is not the will to do it then people might as well move out of those areas because things are only going to get worse if no concrete and large scale action is taken now.

IMO

 

[JB Lions]

Pink skies in Japan before Typhoon Hagibis hits:
https://twitter.com/hashtag/PrayForJapan?src=hashtag_click

I usually used Windy for a look at hurricanes and such, looks like it's going to make landfall soon, within next few hours - https://www.windy.com/35.650/139.767?33.312,138.494,6,m:eEAaj15

The Century’s Strongest Super-Typhoon Hagibis Is About To Hit Japan—1,600 Flights Canceled
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesa...hit-japan1600-flights-cancelled/#5aa85346676c

 

[oldtimer]

The Century’s Strongest Super-Typhoon Hagibis Is About To Hit Japan—1,600 Flights Canceled

It seems like once in a Century storms are now happening every few years, next thing you know they'll be happening every year. As the oceans warm up even by couple of degrees that gives the storms a lot more energy and so a lot of what was considered to be average storms before are now becoming super storms. IMO

 

[oldtimer]

First Scenario: The 1 billion or so Elites around the World will collectively come up with a plan to eliminate all the peasants ....

It has begun!

Greenlighted by All World Powers the Ethnic and Racial (and Genetic) Cleansing of the Peasants is now well underway in certain regions, they all talk about stopping it on TV, but behind the scenes the Cleansing is Precisely what the World's Elite have wanted to see happen all along. IMO

I wonder who's next, and I wonder what is going to happen to saving the Environment now as the World gets engulfed more and more in man made animosities and hostilities.

 

[GILSAN]

 

[oldtimer]

Fortunately it doesn't make any difference what the shape of the Earth is when it comes to saving the Environment. This is one of the rare circumstances that people with opposite views and beliefs can work together towards a common cause. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

Fortunately it doesn't make any difference what the shape of the Earth is when it comes to saving the Environment. This is one of the rare circumstances that people with opposite views and beliefs can work together towards a common cause. IMO

Like I said before... Lots of us have been doing their part long before Al Gore and Greta arrived on scene. We did it without lectures or contradicting stats. It came naturally to us... and still does.

It's the others that need to be named and shamed. So when you keep on saying "us" you're putting me and so many others in the same bag as all those that have a much bigger carbon footprint than me and others.

What are you doing to help? Are you planting your seeds in the desert?

 

[oldtimer]

It's the others that need to be named and shamed.

As long as you name and shame all sides Equally who don't care about the Environment then that is understandable. But if you concentrate all your efforts only on one side who perhaps have opposing views and beliefs from you then that becomes more of a Political issue than an Environmental one.

What are you doing to help?

Everyone who cares about the Environment (including me) is doing a part in saving this planet, some create awareness and some come up with solutions, and yet some focus more on their own local surroundings and their individual habits and some think more global and try to fix the mindsets and lifestyles of the humanity at large through education, but irregardless of all the differences in people's preferences and methods everyone's efforts should be appreciated and commended. We can not say that one way is better than another as it takes all kinds to make a change in the status quo. So you do your part as you see fit in savings the Planet and try not to put down others who are also doing their part towards this cause because if you keep doing that then it's going to come across as if you have some agenda other than helping to solve the Environmental problems. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

As long as you name and shame all sides Equally who don't care about the Environment then that is understandable. But if you concentrate all your efforts only on one side who perhaps have opposing views and beliefs from you then that becomes more of a Political issue than an Environmental one.



Everyone who cares about the Environment (including me) is doing a part in saving this planet, some create awareness and some come up with solutions, and yet some focus more on their own local surroundings and their individual habits and some think more global and try to fix the mindsets and lifestyles of the humanity at large through education, but irregardless of all the differences in people's preferences and methods everyone's efforts should be appreciated and commended. We can not say that one way is better than another as it takes all kinds to make a change in the status quo. So you do your part as you see fit in savings the Planet and try not to put down others who are also doing their part towards this cause because if you keep doing that then it's going to come across as if you have some agenda other than helping to solve the Environmental problems. IMO

But I've already named and shamed so many on previous posts... The Chinese, India, Indonesia, Africa, the USA and it's awful eating habits, big business etc. That's not just one side! There's lots there to pick from. Or is it politically incorrect to name and shame them?

I don't need Al Gore or angry Greta to lecture us in Europe. She should go to where the biggest polluters in the world are, which I've already named and shamed on many occasions!

 

[oldtimer]

But I've already named and shamed so many on previous posts... The Chinese, India, Indonesia, Africa, the USA and it's awful eating habits, big business etc. That's not just one side! There's lots there to pick from. Or is it politically incorrect to name and shame them?

I don't need Al Gore or angry Greta to lecture us in Europe. She should go to where the biggest polluters in the world are, which I've already named and shamed on many occasions!

As far as naming and shaming all those countries which perhaps are failing in their obligations and responsibilities towards Humanity and this Planet then that might be okay, but naming and shaming those who do Care about the Environment but perhaps in different ways than you do is not okay. IMO

PS: Good old Al should stop making so much money off of the Arabs and should get back in the game to help with the Environment. (it doesn't hurt if he loses a few pounds too to lower his carbon footprint ).

 

[GILSAN]

but naming and shaming those who do Care about the Environment but perhaps in different ways than you do is not okay. IMO

PS: Good old Al should stop making so much money off of the Arabs and should get back in the game to help with the Environment. (it doesn't hurt if he loses a few pounds too to lower his carbon footprint).

GRETA THUNBERG JUST SUED 5 COUNTRIES DESTROYING THE PLANET
Greta Thunberg has filed a human rights lawsuit against five countries failing to combat climate change following the Climate Action Summit.

The countries named are Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, and Turkey.

Something fishy here... why didn't she sue the USA which she'd previously said was the biggest polluter of all time?

How about China... the biggest polluter of the present time, or India at #2 etc. etc.

There are lots of big interests and organizations behind Greta. She is not doing this alone, just like Al Gore some years ago...

Besides, when Greta came out with her angry "How dare you" speech, it had the opposite effect on me. Different strokes for different folks

Remember when the Earth was gonna freeze, not so long ago?
Ice Age Scare 1979 Leonard Nimoy

 

[JB Lions]

As far as naming and shaming all those countries which perhaps are failing in their obligations and responsibilities towards Humanity and this Planet then that might be okay, but naming and shaming those who do Care about the Environment but perhaps in different ways than you do is not okay. IMO

PS: Good old Al should stop making so much money off of the Arabs and should get back in the game to help with the Environment. (it doesn't hurt if he loses a few pounds too to lower his carbon footprint ).

You guys haven't called him on this yet:

Gilsan, from Portugal:

"Almost 60% of the general Portuguese population is obese or pre-obese. Women, elderly and less educated individuals present the highest obesity prevalence. Abdominal obesity, in particular, seems to be a relevant public health problem among the elderly men."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5946450/

Maybe, somebody wants to quote that for Gilsan. BTW this is why he blocked me. He hates when I point out reality to him. This is what I was getting at, handle your own business first. Maybe Gilsan can get his countrymen to stop eating so much.

 

[JB Lions]

GRETA THUNBERG JUST SUED 5 COUNTRIES DESTROYING THE PLANET
Greta Thunberg has filed a human rights lawsuit against five countries failing to combat climate change following the Climate Action Summit.

The countries named are Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, and Turkey.

Something fishy here... why didn't she sue the USA which she'd previously said was the biggest polluter of all time?

How about China... the biggest polluter of the present time, or India at #2 etc. etc.

There are lots of big interests and organizations behind Greta. She is not doing this alone, just like Al Gore some years ago...

Besides, when Greta came out with her angry "How dare you" speech, it had the opposite effect on me. Different strokes for different folks

Remember when the Earth was gonna freeze, not so long ago?
Ice Age Scare 1979 Leonard Nimoy

For some reason you didn't post a link, so I will. This is a month old:

"On Monday, Greta Thunberg and 15 other young people filed a potentially world-changing climate complaint.............

They announced that they’re suing five of the world’s major carbon polluters on the grounds that the countries are violating their rights as children. If the suit is successful, the United Nations would classify the climate crisis as a children’s rights crisis. And more importantly, it would compel Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany, and Turkey—the five countries named in the suit—to work with other nations to forge binding emissions’ reduction targets, a sharp change..........

The suit, filed on behalf of the youth by the international law firm Hausfeld, contends that world governments are violating children’s rights under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child....

https://earther.gizmodo.com/its-kids-vs-the-world-in-a-landmark-new-climate-lawsui-1838343565

 

[oldtimer]

You guys haven't called him on this yet:

I and everyone else can read the comments here and decide for ourselves as to what conclusions we want to arrive at. I don't want the focus of this thread to be on just one person in this forum as there are more important things that can use everyone's attention. All I can say is that everyone has made some good points in this thread including you and him that has helped widen our views and understandings of the situation, but you know very well that people who are on either side are going to express some extreme and self serving point of views that they are not going to change so easily and if they are criticized too much they will get even more one sided and extreme. I myself try to filter all the political agendas and attacks in people's comments and try to just pay attention to the parts of their arguments that are based on facts and logic. You are welcomed to rebuttal any comments made by him that you find not to be factual or to be one sided (as you have done so far) not to convince him, but to convince everyone else who is following this thread. Hearing all sides will eventually help the truth to come out about who really cares about the Environment. I have learned over the years that everyone can be right on somethings and be wrong on other things and everyone can be the good guy when considering one issue and be the bad guy in another issue, hence the idea of having free speech and open debate to find the truth between all the confusion. IMO

 

[JB Lions]

I and everyone else can read the comments here and decide for ourselves as to what conclusions we want to arrive at. I don't want the focus of this thread to be on just one person in this forum as there are more important things that can use everyone's attention. All I can say is that everyone has made some good points in this thread including you and him that has helped widen our views and understandings of the situation, but you know very well that people who are on either side are going to express some extreme and self serving point of views that they are not going to change so easily and if they are criticized too much they will get even more one sided and extreme. I myself try to filter all the political agendas and attacks in people's comments and try to just pay attention to the parts of their arguments that are based on facts and logic. You are welcomed to rebuttal any comments made by him that you find not to be factual or to be one sided (as you have done so far) not to convince him, but to convince everyone else who is following this thread. Hearing all sides will eventually help the truth to come out about who really cares about the Environment. I have learned over the years that everyone can be right on somethings and be wrong on other things and everyone can be the good guy when considering one issue and be the bad guy in another issue, hence the idea of having free speech and open debate to find the truth between all the confusion. IMO

Gilsan can't read them because he has me on block. When he posts ridiculous stuff, he should be called on it. Or you'll wind up with a thread drowning in memes in no time. If you've ever read the Political thread, you've see his 25 meme posts in a row. That's coming. Your thread, it's give an inch take a mile type stuff. It'll become a less serious thread real quickly.

It has begun!

Greenlighted by All World Powers the Ethnic and Racial (and Genetic) Cleansing of the Peasants is now well underway in certain regions, they all talk about stopping it on TV, but behind the scenes the Cleansing is Precisely what the World's Elite have wanted to see happen all along. IMO

I wonder who's next, and I wonder what is going to happen to saving the Environment now as the World gets engulfed more and more in man made animosities and hostilities.

What does that even mean? Did something specific stir that post? Cleansing of peasants? Can you post links for stuff like this so people know what you're talking about.