debate Environmental Thread does anyone care that Amazon Rain Forest is burning down to the ground

[oldtimer]

This is a total catastrophe and failure for the World and humanity at large. There are some things that surpass national boundaries and borders like Human Rights and certain Environmental issues that affect the whole Globe which surely should be of concern to all of us. Whether it’s the Oceans and Rivers that have been polluted or whether it’s our air and soil that have been poisoned, it all has something to do with human activity like the Global Warming and the Melting of the Ice Caps and Glaciers which is going to put many coastal Cities and Communities under water soon. IMO

Everyone’s opinions are welcomed, but keep your comments constructive, professional, and on topic. Personal attacks and belittling of others are not tolerated.

 

[oldtimer]

@JB Lions , and @GILSAN

Its easy to criticize and attack the other side, as the matter of fact you probably get a pat on the shoulder for it. But it takes courage to hold your own side to account for their faults and shortcomings, and until you are willing to do that nothing is going to change. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

@JB Lions , and @GILSAN

Its easy to criticize and attack the other side, as the matter of fact you probably get a pat on the shoulder for it. But it takes courage to hold your own side to account for their faults and shortcomings, and until you are willing to do that nothing is going to change. IMO

I don't now what you're talking about when you mention my side or try to associate me to JB.

Perhaps it may make more sense to you if I tell you that JB Lions is the only person in this forum that's in my IGNORE list... for many years now... therefore anything he posts, I'm unable to see and quite frankly, don't care to see or even give a damn about his opinion!

 

[J Sokol]

Everyone’s opinions are welcomed, but keep your comments constructive, professional, and on topic. Personal attacks and belittling of others are not tolerated.

Just a reminder ...

 

[JB Lions]

@JB Lions , and @GILSAN

Its easy to criticize and attack the other side, as the matter of fact you probably get a pat on the shoulder for it. But it takes courage to hold your own side to account for their faults and shortcomings, and until you are willing to do that nothing is going to change. IMO

It is easy because it's true. I can't take your posts seriously because the parties aren't the same. If I said environmental friendly party, nobody is going to say Republicans. Your posts come off as kind of la la land stuff, let's just hold hands and make the planet a better place.

You haven't touched my question, how can you work with somebody like Trump.

One party puts in stricter standards, the other removes them. One passes environmental protections, one strips them. They're just not the same. If there is an issue or problem and you want to work on it, the foundation needs to be truth, reality.

I don't now what you're talking about when you mention my side or try to associate me to JB.

Perhaps it may make more sense to you if I tell you that JB Lions is the only person in this forum that's in my IGNORE list... for many years now... therefore anything he posts, I'm unable to see and quite frankly, don't care to see or even give a damn about his opinion!

That's because he didn't like his nonsense being taken apart. This is a racist who thinks it's ok to attack a woman based on how she's dressed. That and all his anti-gay stuff he posts. In the other thread he actually posted, where are all the liberals at, are you scared of me. Coming from a guy that folded and blocks people that make him look foolish. You noticed the false post he made earlier about Arnold and the SUV he drives. He'll make more.

 

[oldtimer]

Your posts come off as kind of la la land stuff, let's just hold hands and make the planet a better place.

You haven't touched my question, how can you work with somebody like Trump.

Perhaps you can't, but when I asked you a serious question as to how the Left Earth that is going to be under your complete control going to look like your only answer was : Nice

I am not trying to twist your arm for an answer, but I sincerely am interested to know if there is going to be any limit as far as how much each person can consume.

 

[JB Lions]

Perhaps you can't, but when I asked you a serious question as to how the Left Earth that is going to be under your complete control going to look like your only answer was : Nice

That was my answer. You skipped every question I've asked of you, but want me to answer questions. How do people who care about the environment, work with those that don't, are uneducated on the environment, owned by fossil fuel companies? The answer you can't, you remove them.

 

[oldtimer]

That was my answer. You skipped every question I've asked of you, but want me to answer questions. How do people who care about the environment, work with those that don't, are uneducated on the environment, owned by fossil fuel companies? The answer you can't, you remove them.

So I'll answer your question again:

Perhaps you can't work with those people and I can understand why.

So now if you wish you can answer my question, as I already said there is no pressure to answer, but I honestly and sincerely like to know what steps you would take if you had complete control over the Planet. Do you put any limit on the size of carbon foot print that each person is going to have by limiting how much they can consume or own. (you don't have to rush with your response, I rather if you took a little time to come up with a more thoughtful answer).

 

[Cal2]

Unfortunately the Elites are insulated against any pain and suffering that you can inflict on them, the only pain and suffering that they might be able to understand is going to be when we have a total Social and Environmental collapse and by then it's not going to make any difference anymore. At this time the only way out is to convince everyone that it is in their own best interest to change the lifestyles and mindsets that have brought Humanity and this Planet to the point of extinction. So perhaps you need to change your mindset too of even considering inflicting pain and suffering on others as an option. Even with animals positive reinforcement and encouragement along with compassionate and humane treatment, control, and containment have produced better results than the methods used in the past, anyway you want to be part of the solution not part of the problem, don't you.

By the way you and JB never said how things are going to be on the Left Earth.

I'm not considering inflicting pain and suffering. That's not my thing, and I don't like to see it. But people will do that to themselves, to others, or threaten others with it, especially as they get more desperate, angry. Those threats could be mental, as well as physical - eg. 'You'll be seen as evil if you don't do x'.

Another angle: Emotional carrots on a stick. I was once talking with a gov't official on an issue, and I could see his eyes were glazing over. Then I mentioned that doing 'x' could make him look good. The glaze went out of his eyes and I had his attention back again. People shouldn't have to be 'bribed' like that to do their job, but sometimes that's about the only 'logic' they seem to understand and are motivated by.

Takes me back to a favourite saying: Institutions that were established to serve, over time become self serving.

 

[oldtimer]

2019 Climate Action Summit

Closing Report: (pdf)


https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/assets/pdf/CAS_closing_release.pdf

 

[oldtimer]

From the many possible outcomes that might be predicted for the future two possible scenarios might stand out:

First Scenario: The 1 billion or so Elites around the World will collectively come up with a plan to eliminate all the peasants (the poor and the middle class) and replace them with AI so that it can tend to all their needs. The drastic reduction in population will make it possible for the Elites to be able to continue to indulge themselves in all the luxuries and excesses of life as the planet will have an easier time coping with the much less demand on the environment due to the much lower population levels.

Second Scenario: The Peasants (the poor and the middle class) will become so frustrated that they will revolt and take over the World, they make it mandatory for everyone (specially for the Elites) to reduce their carbon footprint by adhering to a very simple and modest lifestyle that is free from waste and excessive consumption. No one is killed but the population growth will be kept under control by educating the people and by creating awareness about each person’s responsibilities towards keeping the Planet healthy and safe and by requiring them to respect each other's rights. With the help of good AI everyone will be able to live happily ever after and will be taught and encouraged to treat others and their home Planet with the respect and attention that they deserve.

So which future do you all want to be a part of.

 

[Cal2]

From the many possible outcomes that might be predicted for the future two possible scenarios might stand out:

First Scenario: The 1 billion or so Elites around the World will collectively come up with a plan to eliminate all the peasants (the poor and the middle class) and replace them with AI so that it can tend to all their needs. The drastic reduction in population will make it possible for the Elites to be able to continue to indulge themselves in all the luxuries and excesses of life as the planet will have an easier time coping with the much less demand on the environment due to the much lower population levels.

Second Scenario: The Peasants (the poor and the middle class) will become so frustrated that they will revolt and take over the World, they make it mandatory for everyone (specially for the Elites) to reduce their carbon footprint by adhering to a very simple and modest lifestyle that is free from waste and excessive consumption. No one is killed but the population growth will be kept under control by educating the people and by creating awareness about each person’s responsibilities towards keeping the Planet healthy and safe and by requiring them to respect each other's rights. With the help of good AI everyone will be able to live happily ever after and will be taught and encouraged to treat others and their home Planet with the respect and attention that they deserve.

So which future do you all want to be a part of.

I choose to remain more optimistic than those 2 options. Eg. Some latest Designing ways forward to deal with climate change:

https://newatlas.com/electronics/first-rechargeable-carbon-dioxide-battery/

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/why-engineers-in-alberta-think-theyve-found-a-way-for-the-oilsands-to-produce-clean-fuel/ar-AAI0Z2p?ocid=spartandhp

I don't see the Elite giving up their mansions and yachts anytime soon, and not without a fight. (Even my wife, when I asked her awhile ago if she'd prefer a house or a mansion, said mansion - so I registered 3Dmansion/s in .com, just in case it could be turned into a positive construction innovation project.) I've 4DMansion/s, 4DYacht/s, 4DJet/s in .com, for when 4D printing can help with things like climate damage from extravagant living - maybe even being able to make those things a positive as far as dealing with climate damage.
But that could use a different kind of thinking from the usual, traditional.​

 

[oldtimer]

I don't see the Elite giving up their mansions and yachts anytime soon, and not without a fight. (Even my wife, when I asked her awhile ago if she'd prefer a house or a mansion, said mansion - so I registered 3Dmansion/s in .com, just in case it could be turned into a positive construction innovation project.) I've 4DMansion/s, 4DYacht/s, 4DJet/s in .com, for when 4D printing can help with things like climate damage from extravagant living - maybe even being able to make those things a positive as far as dealing with climate damage.
But that could use a different kind of thinking from the usual, traditional.​

I recently saw a documentary on PBS channel that showed a millionaire who had built a 500 thousand dollar mansion for his dog complete with a swimming pool, a very large training area, and a lounge. The mindset and the system that has made such things possible has to be reformed if there is going to be any chances to save the Planet (and the Humanity). If people keep on creating a large carbon foot print through their lifestyles and habits, then what’s the use to even talk about the Environment. Yes the future can be very grim if people are not willing to change.

I am sure that the dog will be perfectly happy with a regular doghouse and his owner should be content with having a normal size environmentally friendly and green home that does not tax this Planet's resources and wellbeing. IMO


PS: As far as visiting your planet, I rather stay put where I am because I am afraid of Earthquakes.

 

[Cal2]

PS: As far as visiting your planet, I rather stay put where I am because I am afraid of Earthquakes.

Never been in an earthquake, but wouldn't want to, either - natural or man caused.

For a fun design project sometime in the future (with some potential resulting ideas that could be harvested and maybe used here), I've PrintaPlanet in .com, which will likely make use of such as 3D and 4D printed metamaterials, in ways that such as earthquakes aren't possible, or improbable.

 

[oldtimer]

For a fun design project sometime in the future (with some potential resulting ideas that could be harvested and maybe used here), I've PrintaPlanet in .com, which will likely make use of such as 3D and 4D printed metamaterials, in ways that such as earthquakes aren't possible, or improbable.

I have PrintableHouses.com ,

We have the technology to do a lot of good, but first we have to overcome all the animosities and hostilities that are taking the World in the wrong direction and are distracting us from the real issues that need our attention, and next we have to come up with the will and the courage to make the necessary changes in our lifestyles and habits before it's too late (and when I say we I mean Humanity as a whole). IMO

 

[Cal2]

For what it's worth:

"Climate change is a marketing problem. ……… . That’s because humans make choices. If we live in a culture where people are free to choose, we’ve offered control over our future to others. When humans make choices–that’s marketing. …….. . If you want to change things, it helps to understand how humans make choices."
https://seths.blog/2019/09/you-might-have-a-marketing-problem/

Conflicts: A Better Way to Resolve Them
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/111/1115939/conflicts/9781785041891.html

 

[GILSAN]

After the Climate change Protest in Rome a few days ago... Looks like the generation that wants to save the planet needs to be saved from their hypocrisy!

 

[oldtimer]

After the Climate change Protest in Rome a few days ago... Looks like the generation that wants to save the planet needs to be saved from their hypocrisy!

Soon there will be Robots that will pick up all the trash for us, but trash is just the symptom, the disease is Consumerism.

All the rampant and excessive production, manufacturing, and building which leads to all the Owning, Collecting, and Wasting of stuff is the real problem. IMO

 

[J Sokol]

I recently saw a documentary on PBS channel that showed a millionaire who had built a 500 thousand dollar mansion for his dog complete with a swimming pool, a very large training area, and a lounge.

Sadly, the U.S. has become a country where the pets often have better lives than humans. This is especially troubling since pets are heavy contributors to climate change.
Here's an excerpt from the UCLA Newsroom:
"In a paper published today in the journal PLOS One, Okin says he found that cats and dogs are responsible for 25 to 30 percent of the environmental impact of meat consumption in the United States. If Americans’ 163 million Fidos and Felixes comprised a separate country, their fluffy nation would rank fifth in global meat consumption, Okin calculated, behind only Russia, Brazil, the United States and China."
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/the-truth-about-cats-and-dogs-environmental-impact

 

[oldtimer]

Sadly, the U.S. has become a country where the pets often have better lives than humans. This is especially troubling since pets are heavy contributors to climate change.
Here's an excerpt from the UCLA Newsroom:
"In a paper published today in the journal PLOS One, Okin says he found that cats and dogs are responsible for 25 to 30 percent of the environmental impact of meat consumption in the United States. If Americans’ 163 million Fidos and Felixes comprised a separate country, their fluffy nation would rank fifth in global meat consumption, Okin calculated, behind only Russia, Brazil, the United States and China."
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/the-truth-about-cats-and-dogs-environmental-impact

I didn't want to mention where the documentary was made, because it's pretty much the same story all around the World when it comes to the Elite and their excesses, but this was actually in China, as it has the highest number of new millionaires in the World.

PS: I rather if we kept the pets and got rid of the Elite.

(just kidding, but then the Elite who don't want to change their ways and want to continue pampering themselves in so much luxury and excesses are the ones that are not worth keeping.)

 

[J Sokol]

PS: I rather if we kept the pets and got rid of the Elite.

You're right - the elite are much harder on the environment than all the pets in the world are.
Oldtimer, do you think growing pressure about the environmental cost the elites are inflicting will lead to some changes on their part? Maybe they could each donate a mansion or two to help house all the folks who are living under bridges or in tent cities.