Drop Catching is Dead?

[Name Trader]

Hi,

I've just spent all day long going thru the dropping domains at NameJet, for my usual selection of keywords. I managed to backorder just one domain. I don't consider this time well spent considering it'll probably be caught by DropCatch. Does anyone else have the feeling that drop catching is pretty much totally dead? Is all the oxygen being sucked up by the Pre-Release Auctions? I don't think I'm going to look again at the drop catching domains. My time is much more valuable than these meagre pickings. I used to be able to identify at least 10 domains or more to backorder from the next 3 days dropping domains.

Any thoughts or comments appreciated.

 

[kostaki]

You can find snapnames, namejet and godaddy (closeouts+expired) pre-release lists on my website (ExpiredDomains.net) and a lot of other domain lists all in one place. I also have a pending delete list that is as far as I know the most comprehensive in the world.

From what you are writing, I think you can save a lot of time by using my website. At the moment you can enter up to 30 keywords per domain name filter (starts with, ends with or contains), so you could check your 150 keywords with only 5 searches per domain list.

You can use the saved searches system to speed it up even more. You have to invest some time to set everything up like you want it, but I think it is worth it especially for reoccurring keyword lookups. You can also enabled email updates for the saved searches. With that you will get 1 email per day including all newly found domains matching your searches.

If you have questions or suggestions, just post them here or use the contact form on my website.

 

[Kate]

Well, in order to be efficient I like to automate as much as I can. For example, I review tens of thousands of deleting names every day (across gTLDs and ccTLDs). I have also compiled my own lists. Of course I don't read the lists in full (it's something I could do in 2005 but not any more). Instead I developed scripts to highlight names of interest based upon certain criteria.

Now imagine you want to get a list of names for sale at Sedo or another platform, but the search feature is too painful to use.
What do you do ? You could build a web scraper or something like that.
If you have access to the zone files, you can do many things. For example if you want to extract a list of all names parked at Sedo (using Sedo NS) it's easy. Then you filter out according to your desires. There is no need to reinvent the wheel because the data (or most of it) is already available.

There are many things that you don't have to do manually. The time saved can be devoted to other tasks like the actual selection of domains. Because days are short and we have to make the most of our time.

Just don't follow your competitors, because everybody is chasing the same names. Walk out the beaten path

 

[Kate]

There are plenty of tutorials about web scraping. But it's the kind of job you can outsource to a freelancer.
To stay on topic, here are some examples of real life scripting for domainers.

1. In the early days (mid-1990s) smart domain pionners were compiling their own droplists of .com/.net domains. You could download the zone files from FTP. So what you did is compare the current release against the previous one, thus you could see which names were added (new registrations) and which names were removed (typically expired domains).
   When you had your droplist you just had to keep tracking the expiring names and send a request to netsol (the only registrar at the time) as soon as the name became available.
   Nowadays the droplists are freely available and come straight from the registry.
2. Some ccTLDs publish droplists, but most do not.
   Many years ago, there was a ccTLD that published the list of all registered domains on the official registry website. So I figured out that if I scraped the page say once a week, and compared the list against the previous version I could easily spot the expired domains.
3. The other approach is to simply build and maintain your own lists. You create a list of domains with all the keywords you're interested in (you could even use a list from a zone file of another extension). Next you check the whois for each domain and determine the anniversary date of the domain. Then every day, your scripts check the domains that are due for renewal. You keep checking until the name is renewed or flagged for deletion. Then you wait until the name is deleted and available for registration again. Either way you keep your list up to date (if you have to try next year).
   
4. Some ccTLDs are bureaucratic. One example is the .it TLD (Italia). When you want to register a domain you must fax a letter (LAR) to the registry. It must arrive ASAP: first come first served. It's an open secret that some dropcatchers have automated the process of sending faxes...
5. The most common form of scripting is using a registrar API to register dropping domains. You can compete against people trying to handreg but not against dropcatchers.
6. ...

 

[kostaki]

great effort kostaki .. I use your website on regular basis and I got to know about it on one of Ali Zandi's posts. From that day I am using it regularly.
The filters are great. Keep up your good work.

Thanks and I will keep working on it! I have a user wishlist/todo list that will keep me busy for the next years

If you have suggestions, let me know!

 

[Arca]

The thing is, when it dosen´t go to auction, that means only You backorder it So that probably isn`t good sign. Then again, I get 2-3 in day without auction, the ones I think are decent.

yesterday even at dropcatch 3 for $59 each and one from discount club for $18

and two from snapnames for $79

I think 3 went to auction

But I would suggest make more bids in auctions. Usually I don´t get them, but time to time I still win some.

If I win the name outright because there were no other backorders, I do not take that as a bad sign at all. If I backorder 10 names that I think are all good, and 9 of them go into auction, I consider the one I got for $59/$79 a lucky bargain pickup. Besides, many of the names I backorder that go into public auctions at DropCatch only have 1 other bidder. That means I was pretty close to getting it for $59 (and in the public auction it will normally go up to $500-1000 at least). In the reseller market now, the price of a domain is determined by who is in the auction bidding, much more than the quality of the domain.

But I rarely get names for $59 (or $79) these days. More people backorder with DropCatch, so there is always 1-2 other bidders now, and when the name enters a public auction it is as good as lost. If you enter into an auction with 1-2 other people at SnapNames you can beat them, but not at DropCatch. You can outbid the people who placed the DropCatch backorder, but not the 10 deep pocket bidders that join the auction late.

 

[Kate]

Hi Stub,

Same experience here. I think the drops are a waste of time, if you spend a lot of time on them.
So I try to automate things as much as possible and I don't allocate too much time toward the drops.
I focus on the prereleases and the closeouts instead.
But a few good names have dropped lately. I was able to get something nice and I didn't pay a lot. But it doesn't happen every day.

There is competition of course, but some good names still slip through the cracks.
Even if there is competition you might still get something without bidding up too much (not all participants are in the mood for fighting, depending on the domain).

I still do dropcatch in ccTLDs. There is competition in ccTLDs too, but less visibility than in .com. It's a bit like dropcatching .com in the early days: experience, research and knowing some tricks about the release cycle can make a difference.

 

[Arca]

Actually we have GD Closeouts, GD Expired, GD Auctions WB, GD Buy Now, GD Make Offer, GD Featured, GD Traffic, GD Most Active and GD TDNAM sections on expireddomains.net but i don't know which one of them is pre-release one. So can you share those 150 keywords or is it a business secret ?

Take your pick

 

[Arca]

mmm. I think it is GD Expired. But at the same time i think these are Pending delete auctions and not pre release ...

GD Expired is expiring GoDaddy domains that are in a pre-release auction, and these can only be bought at GoDaddy.

Pending Delete names are domain names from all registrars, not just GD, that are past the redemption period, and will be deleted and become available for hand registration again.

Also, my post above is a link to some of the most popular domain keywords. You can use it as a starting point to build up your own list of keywords.

 

[ben pedri]

You naturally became a better name picker ,chances are the domains you do backorder and get now are more valuable than the domains you once found easier to grab,which are still probably sitting in your account. Based on what you posted Im sure the domain you do get will more than make up for all the ones you dont get and once did. I think that makes sense . Keep on TRUCKING

 

[Name Trader]

@GAhmed - When I used the expression "dead". I didn't mean it literally. It was meant to convey that it's largely moved in the arena of the deep pocketed buyers only. Although there will always be a few domains that pass thru the cracks. DropCatch have changed the game forever. Sweeping up most of the available decent drop-catches, and auctioning them off in open auctions. I've always admired their strategy and commitment in their investment in registrars. It seems to have worked for them as an investment strategy.

But there are 2 categories of expiring domains. Drop-Catching, as the name suggested, is when a domain is actually dropped from the registry and registered anew. And Pre-Release, where domains which have not been renewed by registrants are auctioned off by their Registrar/Auction House before they are returned to the Registry 45 days after expiry. These domains don't drop and retain their original registration date. Many (new) domainers muddle these entirely separate processes together. When they are entirely separate. Whilst I consider Drop-Catching (almost) dead. Pre-Release Auctions are thriving. Mostly because DropCatch has forced us to move (almost) entirely to the first bite of the cherry, at Pre-Release Auctions. Where DropCatch don't operate. So, sadly, this too has become more competitive. It's the nature of more participants.

 

[cocaseco]

I have noticed a decline in quality domains at the drop. But I don't spend anywhere near 8 hours a day on drops, maybe one hour. But I am only focusing on brandables. I have my 100 +/- keywords an use expireddomains.net and can efficiently and quickly get through the lost in fast enough time to make it worthwhile. For me a successful day is having one or two names accepted at BB or BR, so maybe my "bar" is lower than yours, but it's a profitable strategy that I don't see changing anytime soon.

 

[Name Trader]

I have started the next step on my road to Pre-Release Auctions. I went thru the GoDaddy Pre-Release Auctions today. It took me about the same time as it did to go thru Pending Deletes for the prior 3 days. But this GoDaddy Auctions was covering from $5 Closeouts to the 9 days of the Pre-Release Auction. A total of 14 days. I was helped because GoDaddy's Searching is so much better than NameJet's.

I bought 1 domain at $5 and bid on 1 domain closing today. There are some domains also in the Closeouts on other days which I will buy when they reach $5. I have itemized a couple of domains per day in the Closeout section. But I'll probably only buy 1 domain per day. I have identified a few domains per day in the Pre-Release $12 section of the auction. I will choose what to bid on, the day the Auction closes.

So. Pending Deletes took me approx 8hrs for 3 days of Pending Delete Domains. Which is approx 3hrs per day. Which was completely worthless.

GoDaddy Pre-Release Auctions took me about 8hrs for 14 days. Which is approx 1/2hr per day, and has started to show some kind of results already. And I am now monitoring about 13 days of these Pre-Release Auctions. So won't need to spend another 8hrs analyzing the GoDaddy Pre-Release Auctions for another 13 days

I hope tomorrow to take a stab at the Non-GoDaddy Pre-Release Auctions. This time I'll use SnapNames and Pheenix.

 

[Name Trader]

I can't imagine drop catching dying anytime soon. I've made ton of money off of one and two word .com domains I've found. So many people forget to renew domains. At least one out of every 500 domains expired is worth at least a couple hundred dollars.

Are you talking about Pe-Release Auctions or Drop Caching. Because most of those domains you are talking about, all get picked up in Pre-Release, and never make it to the Drop. And. Any decent domain which makes it to the drop, 50-75% of the time is picked up by DropCatch.com for HugeDomains.com. Leaving the dregs for the rest of us. I don't think Drop Catching (not Pre-Release Auctions) in anything like as fruitful,as you are describing. In fact. I don't believe it's worth the effort anymore, for the small pickings and huge competition. Sure. We still catch the odd domain. But as a business model, I think it is dying, if not completely dead.

 

[Michael M]

DropCatch truly changed the game with their vast registrar network. When you use their discount network HugeDomains gets first pick at the name, if I am not mistaken. So you are basically giving them another metric to give them reason to grab and hold.

None-the-less - drop catching is not dead... But with all the pre-release auctions, and then players like dropnames, the amount of names that slip through the cracks is much less than it used to be.

We must be creative in how we search the drop list and there are still gems in there. But if you think you are going to drop catch a one worder or high value liquid domain then you are most probably mistaken.

Me personally, I hand reg or via API, or I bid on Pre-Release auctions. I tend to stay away from the dropcatcher auctions as the price is largely being inflated and many times comes too close to end-user pricing.

If I am to use a dropcatcher I personally stay away from DropCatch as to not feed the beast, but that's just me.

 

[Jasonn]

i would say over the years there is definitely less quality stuff hitting pending delete. i've also noticed a lot more competition in the both pending delete and pre-release as well. its very different than 5 years ago.

 

[Kate]

There are still good prerelease names that slip though the cracks. Research
Otherwise move up the ladder, and acquire names direct from their owners.
Dropcatching still applies to ccTLDs but there is competition too. If you are trying to catch .de or .uk: good luck.
The mature ccTLDs generally attract competition.

Also, there are millions of names listed on platforms like Afternic or Sedo. Some with BINs.
The usual marketplaces are sometimes overlooked, but there are bargains to be had too.
Unfortunately searching for them tedious. But there are ways around that. If you can write scripts and automate things.

 

[GoKaizen]

The drop will never die.

You will always have people forgetting to renew, not knowing the value, passing away, etc.

As far as NJ. They suck. BO names caught by SnapNames, no auction email from NJ. Some have been owned by SN for weeks.Wtf?

 

[Hypersot]

same feeling here stub
I was never much a total fan of dropcatching but -while I did some in the past- I have completely stopped now.

Whenever I check for availabilities and -inevitably- I look at the usernames/emails that have regged the names, my heart sinks.
Seeing the same usernames on a daily basis regging huge lists of -seemingly- useless domains makes me constantly wonder.. how the hell am I supposed to fit in there?

...hence the hunt for regfees

 

[Name Trader]

same feeling here stub
I was never much a total fan of dropcatching but -while I did some in the past- I have completely stopped now.

Whenever I check for availabilities and -inevitably- I look at the usernames/emails that have regged the names, my heart sinks.
Seeing the same usernames on a daily basis regging huge lists of -seemingly- useless domains makes me constantly wonder.. how the hell am I supposed to fit in there?

...hence the hunt for regfees

I'm going to turn my attention to Pre-Release Auctions instead. What I said to @Adam27 were the reasons.

Actually. i used to be active in both Pre-Release and Drop Catching, but haven't been active for a while. About six months, or so. I just started up today with the Drop Catching, and the available domains are 99+% totally crap. So I think I'm not going to continue with Drop Catching. Wasting my time. I'll give the Pre-Release Auctions a go tomorrow. I did actually have a peek at GoDaddy's Auctions today. bought 2 out of 3,500 domains viewed. Not great names, but OK. Which was many, many times better than my Drop Catching debacle.

 

[Name Trader]

I know I should really only bid at the last minute for the Godaddy Auctions. But for me, they close between 12 midnight and 5am in the morning. I hope to be comfortably asleep at that time, unless there is an extremely important domain coming up for closing.

I'm also monitoring Dynadot's Pre-Release Auctions. But nothing really comes up there very often.

 

[fitkhan]

I haven't watched expireddomains.net. You are more likely to tell me, rather than the other way around. I have a keyword list of about 150 keywords, which I work from. This whole thread I've only been talking about .com domains

Actually we have GD Closeouts, GD Expired, GD Auctions WB, GD Buy Now, GD Make Offer, GD Featured, GD Traffic, GD Most Active and GD TDNAM sections on expireddomains.net but i don't know which one of them is pre-release one. So can you share those 150 keywords or is it a business secret ?

 

[ninjadomain]

Nice thread! Drops becoming more difficult for sure.

 

[Aaron Nijsse]

I can't imagine drop catching dying anytime soon. I've made ton of money off of one and two word .com domains I've found. So many people forget to renew domains. At least one out of every 500 domains expired is worth at least a couple hundred dollars.

 

[ninjadomain]

Stub, perhaps start your own drop-catching service?