Don't ask for appraisals for new TLDs

[Kate]

Hello :hi:

Please don't ask for appraisals for new TLDs.
There is no established market. Therefore nobody can give you a price range. But it is very unlikely you will be able to resell them at a profit.

Therefore assume they are worth zero undeveloped :gl:

 

[jmcc]

It's always the same with any big change there will be those who will be anti and scream how they know it all based on past experience.

It is not a big change. There millions of domains registered and dropped each month in the main TLDs/ccTLDs. The new gTLD total isn't even over .MOBI's total yet. The new gTLD event is largely a North American event to date. In terms of registration volume, the new gTLDs don't really have significant market shares (>5%) in most country level markets. As the new gTLDs stand, even 1% would be good. It will take years for some new gTLDs to make inroads at this level. Most never will.

Regards...jmcc

 

[Kate]

sales? You talking about the new gTLDs that just came out? lol. sales to whom? Domainers? Me, I never register names to flip to domaine rs. I always register with the end user in mind. And "will have no buyers"? Maybe you don't know how to find them?

OK, you are targeting the end users. That makes sense. Have you identified any ? Apparently, YOU know how to find them. So I am eager to learn. Yes, those extensions are new. How many years are you willing to wait for them to take off ?

I think YOU are the end user for your domains.

I have always warned people to tread carefully in new extensions, and my tune is not going to change :imho:

 

[loupe]

OK, you are targeting the end users. That makes sense. Have you identified any ? Apparently, YOU know how to find them. So I am eager to learn. Yes, those extensions are new. How many years are you willing to wait for them to take off ?

I think YOU are the end user for your domains.

I have always warned people to tread carefully in new extensions, and my tune is not going to change :imho:

Why would he share that with you ? Such a hostile environment and then expect he tells you his methods of finding end-users

Also any serious domainer has usually, for good domains, a long horizon, say 5-10 years. You might learn this from the big boys you can ask in case you think it's nonsense. But it depends also on what one can afford to spend while waiting beside the incidental big sale.

We're here in a community where people have anything from tiny wallets to big wallets and in between. So when i see comments i also keep in mind it could be some one who lives on coupons to make a buck or some one who can afford more. So opinions depends a bit on who is giving them too and reasoning from his personal situation.

We all know with new things people take a risk, calculated or not, just the way the world runs. We have on the left the screamers who say no and on the right those who invest and say yes Who cares, change is happening, all we can do as a community is make the best of it.

 

[Kate]

Also any serious domainer has usually, for good domains, a long horizon, say 5-10 years. You might learn this from the big boys you can ask in case you think it's nonsense. But it depends also on what one can afford to spend while waiting beside the incidental big sale.

Well, most domainers are not "serious" They are scrambling for coupons and depressed over the renewals, because they are not making any serious money at all, even in .com.

The big boys if you mean Rick Digimedia etc, have all made their money on .com. Never on second- or third-rate extensions.
Frank is probably going to cash in on new extensions too, but as a registry. He and a few others are in a unique position to benefit. Not you. Not me. He's playing a completely different game by being on top of the food chain.

When you have solid domains, you hold for the right offer, that makes sense. But here we are talking about extensions that are completely speculative and worthless at this point. The odds that any are going to be valuable are extremely slim, because there is no demand while the supply is enormous. What I am trying to say, is that the odds are stacked against you, big time.

 

[JB Lions]

My general appraisal

 

[HeyNow]

But here we are talking about extensions that are completely speculative and worthless at this point. The odds that any are going to be valuable are extremely slim, because there is no demand while the supply is enormous. What I am trying to say, is that the odds are stacked against you, big time.

Yes, and that's been ICANN's goal since resale .com prices went through the roof 15 years ago. Back then, lots of cybersquatting on prime .com names, lots of bitching and moaning by the trademark lobby, lots of back-stabbing and power plays from the ICANN board to stifle competition (like telling Chris Ambler and Paul Garrin to take a hike back in November 2000). Paul Garrin applied for exactly the same thing that is sanctioned now: unlimited TLDs, including .info, .space, .love, .whatever, etc. ICANN didn't allow a registry to also be a registrar, but now that's different too.

So ICANN gets its way: the market is diluted with TLDs, sending lots of speculators packing, and ICANN has monetized the TLD application process most effectively, which is probably why they didn't care to accommodate Chris Ambler and Paul Garrin back in 2000 for a mere $50k each.

 

[gc1282]

It's throwing away money if you don't have the aptitude for picking the good names. I'm guessing you've been burned before?

My general appraisal

 

[JB Lions]

Seems nerve has been touched. Everybody is this business has thrown away money, but some of us have learned from it. I mean, I see a post where you actually thought one of the color domains (.red) was good. Your have .center domains and even one of the other worst ones, .voyage. You're putting money into some of the worst of the new ones. Bump this thread a year or a few years from now and let me know how inaccurate that gif is.

 

[gc1282]

.red is good. (Spanish for .network) and I stick by that.

.center is in the top 10 of regs - look up the stats. (should be higher) I guess people went cucu for guru

.voyage because it's limited within the top 100. (but I made sure I chose words that made sense)

And I will be investing in more gTLDs in the near future.

If you're calling the extensions I chose horrible lol what are your choices for the top extensions? Not that your opinion matters to me - but just for my amusement. I march to the beat of my own drum.

And let's be upfront here . . . some of you guys blah blah blah-ing are .com loyalists with small to medium sized .com portfolios? or dot whatever else you have and are worried that out of the countless gTLDs even if only <1% of those became popular extensions one day that end-users would not pick yours. Don't worry dot com ain't going anywhere. But you're going to have to work just a bit harder in the future to sell them to end users. Don't get me wrong - I love dot com. But dot com has interesting new neighbors.

Seems nerve has been touched. Everybody is this business has thrown away money, but some of us have learned from it. I mean, I see a post where you actually thought one of the color domains (.red) was good. Your have .center domains and even one of the other worst ones, .voyage. You're putting money into some of the worst of the new ones. Bump this thread a year or a few years from now and let me know how inaccurate that gif is.

 

[loupe]

Well, most domainers are not "serious" They are scrambling for coupons and depressed over the renewals, because they are not making any serious money at all, even in .com.

The big boys if you mean Rick Digimedia etc, have all made their money on .com. Never on second- or third-rate extensions.
Frank is probably going to cash in on new extensions too, but as a registry. He and a few others are in a unique position to benefit. Not you. Not me. He's playing a completely different game by being on top of the food chain.

When you have solid domains, you hold for the right offer, that makes sense. But here we are talking about extensions that are completely speculative and worthless at this point. The odds that any are going to be valuable are extremely slim, because there is no demand while the supply is enormous. What I am trying to say, is that the odds are stacked against you, big time.

I wanted to be short here but your reply is constructive so i'll refrain Anyway, we'll see in a few years if the end-users start to get a major interest once they discover there is more than .com.

 

[JB Lions]

.red is good. (Spanish for .network) and I stick by that.

.center is in the top 10 of regs - look up the stats. (should be higher) I guess people went cucu for guru

.voyage because it's limited within the top 100. (but I made sure I chose words that made sense)

And I will be investing in more gTLDs in the near future.

If you're calling the extensions I chose horrible lol what are you choices for the top extensions? Not that your opinion matters - but just for my amusement.

And let's be upfront here . . . some of you guys blah blah blah-ing are .com loyalists with small to medium sized .com portfolios? or dot whatever else you have and are worried that out of the countless gTLDs even if only <1% of those became popular extensions one day that end-users would not pick yours. Don't worry dot com ain't going anywhere. But you're going to have to work just a bit harder in the future to sell them to end users. Don't get me wrong - I love dot com. But dot com has interesting new neighbors.

.red is not good, not even domainers think so, hence the low regs - 798

.center is at #10 but not even 14,000 and based on what people are regging, most of them aren't good

with what you regged with .voyage and making sense. Tell me why macau voyage makes sense, seeing that it gets - - search a month, meaning 0. I'm only looking at it from the U.S., so maybe it's better somewhere else? Where.

And no, .com owners aren't worried about it. It's like this running idea people investing in new gtlds think.

Also the red/network is a bit of a stretch. Maybe somebody who speaks Spanish would know better. I tried one of the translators online, this came up first:

red [red]
noun
1. Net (pesca), particularly for fishing and fowling.

So people should register something in .red which is red to most people, but somehow they're supposed to know it's Spanish for a net used for fishing? And the registry disagrees with you, since it's a color, that what they said.

 

[gc1282]

Some of you make me giggle I swear. How does Macau Voyage make sense? uh hmm lets see voyage means a course of travel or passage, especially a long journey by water to a distant place. a passage through air or space, as a flight in an airplane. Let me guess - you went to keyword planner and typed in Macau voyage and got zero? Like I told your friend Miss Know It All aka sdsinc - it's intended to be a brandable phrase domain name. So let me get this straight . . . you think, that because those 2 terms have no results that it's worthless? lol That's no problem , because Macau alone does have results. And if you know about SEO - that's not a a non-issue. And YES, there are some dot portfolio holders that are worried. Of that I'm certain.

.red is not good, not even domainers think so, hence the low regs - 798

.center is at #10 but not even 14,000 and based on what people are regging, most of them aren't good

with what you regged with .voyage and making sense. Tell me why macau voyage makes sense, seeing that it gets - - search a month, meaning 0. I'm only looking at it from the U.S., so maybe it's better somewhere else? Where.

And no, .com owners aren't worried about it. It's like this running idea people investing in new gtlds think.

 

[JB Lions]

Some of you make me giggle I swear. How does Macau Voyage make sense? Let me guess - you went to keyword planner and typed in Macau voyage and got zero? Like I told your friend Miss Know It All aka sdsinc - it's intended to be a brandable phrase domain name. So let me get this straight . . . you think, that because those 2 terms have no results that it's worthless? lol That's no problem , because Macau alone does have results. And if you know about SEO - that's not a a non-issue.

Well, with generic terms, it would help if somebody in the world actually searched on it. Plus, who takes voyages nowadays? Oh wait, it means travel in some other language, just like red means something else in some other language. No confusion there.

"And if you know about SEO"

I do, probably a lot more than you, because you would never see me get excited by making page 8 on terms nobody searches for. That you thought that actually proved anything, told me you must be new to SEO.

 

[loupe]

Also what some seem to forget is these new TLDs target specific business / markets / organisations / crafts etc. That is the real power when the left and right side make sense. Last but not least, content is important to any business. One can have the best .com and still suck because of a useless website.

 

[gc1282]

Well .co was also supposed to mean the country of Colombia . . . and still does. But American startups are using it. Then people started saying it can stand for Company, Corporation etc. And people don't have to know it's Spanish if they're not using it for the Latino market. The people who speak Spanish know what red is to them no big deal.

.red is not good, not even domainers think so, hence the low regs - 798

.center is at #10 but not even 14,000 and based on what people are regging, most of them aren't good

with what you regged with .voyage and making sense. Tell me why macau voyage makes sense, seeing that it gets - - search a month, meaning 0. I'm only looking at it from the U.S., so maybe it's better somewhere else? Where.

And no, .com owners aren't worried about it. It's like this running idea people investing in new gtlds think.

Also the red/network is a bit of a stretch. Maybe somebody who speaks Spanish would know better. I tried one of the translators online, this came up first:

red [red]
noun
1. Net (pesca), particularly for fishing and fowling.

So people should register something in .red which is red to most people, but somehow they're supposed to know it's Spanish for a net used for fishing? And the registry disagrees with you, since it's a color, that what they said.

 

[Kate]

Also what some seem to forget is these new TLDs target specific business / markets / organisations / crafts etc. That is the real power when the left and right side make sense.

That's the problem, they are niche TLDs with very tiny pools of possible end users (buyers).
If you look at industry-specific TLD: .jobs .travel .museum .aero .coop .etc - all are failures.
I don't see why everything is now suddenly different. It's nothing new really, it's the same old game that has already failed, now rolled out in king kong size™

Well .co was also supposed to mean the country of Colombia . . . and still does. But American startups are using it.

In .co there are some sales but not sure I would call it a market. And that is for a TLD with a volume of 1.6M+ registration. In proportion, what kind of market do you expect in a TLD that has got 10000 regs, possibly less, and nowhere near the same level of promotion.

 

[loupe]

That's the problem, they are niche TLDs with very tiny pools of possible end users (buyers).
If you look at industry-specific TLD: .jobs .travel .museum .aero .coop .etc - all are failures.
I don't see why everything is now suddenly different. It's nothing new really, it's the same old game that has already failed, now rolled out in king kong size™

Well .co was also supposed to mean the country of Colombia . . . and still does. But American startups are using it.

In .co there are some sales but not sure I would call it a market. And that is for a TLD with a volume of 1.6M+ registration. In proportion, what kind of market do you expect in a TLD that has got 10000 regs, possibly less, and nowhere near the same level of promotion.

Niche / Specific, yes, most are. But the biggest difference is the scale and awereness it is slowly creating. With only a few like jobs / travel / museum (etc) it was limited and only targetting a few sectors. Now everything can and is targetted. Sky is the limit for the end-user ! This is why it is now not a good idea to judge such niche TLD on its numbers.

A good business won't depend on a TLD for its success. People visiting it won't say "oh wait, that's a new TLD lets not visit the website and get that product"

And you know what ? This is good news actually for the domainer of all sizes ! Finally a bigger playing field with more options to get something good. No more a limited playing field with a few lucky players who got in a long time ago on the .com train and the rest can do with some shitty 3-4-5 word domains.

 

[opalxx]

Niche / Specific, yes, most are. But the biggest difference is the scale and awereness it is slowly creating. With only a few like jobs / travel / museum (etc) it was limited and only targetting a few sectors. Now everything can and is targetted. Sky is the limit for the end-user ! This is why it is now not a good idea to judge such niche TLD on its numbers.

A good business won't depend on a TLD for its success. People visiting it won't say "oh wait, that's a new TLD lets not visit the website and get that product"

And you know what ? This is good news actually for the domainer of all sizes ! Finally a bigger playing field with more options to get something good. No more a limited playing field with a few lucky players who got in a long time ago on the .com train and the rest can do with some shitty 3-4-5 word domains.

At last, a bit of common sense amongst all of the doom on this thread!!

 

[JB Lions]

A good business won't depend on a TLD for its success.

Mostly true. Good or should I say smart businesses usually pick good extensions to build on for obvious reasons. We've already gone over that, literally drilling down the different extensions being used. From looking at top Alexa sites, to top 500 internet merchants. One kind of sticks out above the rest. So what do all these businesses know, that some domainers can't seem to grasp?

You know, this is kind of like the movie Groundhog Day. I didn't say anything new, the reply won't be anything new. Nothing really is at this point. It's going to do what it's going to do, I have a pretty good idea what that is but good luck with everybody's purchases, wherever they might be.

 

[loupe]

Mostly true. Good or should I say smart businesses usually pick good extensions to build on for obvious reasons. We've already gone over that, literally drilling down the different extensions being used. From looking at top Alexa sites, to top 500 internet merchants. One kind of sticks out above the rest. So what do all these businesses know, that some domainers can't seem to grasp?

We agree on that a good business doesn't depend on a TLD All about the product / content !
.com is the oldest and in the past it was automatically the best choice, generic TLD classified for commercial use. It's only logical that it is the number one TLD with the most regs and awareness.

Now people simply have alot more choice. Niche type sectors / business / etc can choose to pinpoint a specific domain which makes sense on the left and right for their needs. We will slowly see as the years go by that the top 500 will use these too or even new ones enter that top.

If i remember well, you seem to also have gotten yourself some of these new TLD's ? Lets hope we all see some benefit with our investments, doesn't matter which TLD.

 

[briguy]

If I may interrupt, been lurking this thread and sure no expert but..

Why would he share that with you ?

Not saying "he" has to share his information but If he does, sure would be helpful for someone like me (and probably a vast majority of other people). I learn best from those "that been there and done that" mainly because I can't afford to throw away my money!

 

[JB Lions]

Now people simply have alot more choice. Niche type sectors / business / etc can choose to pinpoint a specific domain which makes sense on the left and right for their needs.

They already can, before the . But this all seems very familiar to me

If i remember well, you seem to also have gotten yourself some of these new TLD's ? Lets hope we all see some benefit with our investments, doesn't matter which TLD.

You might have me confused with somebody else. I think it was you or somebody else that kind of went off a little on Ms. Domainer saying she was a new gtld hater, when she bought some herself. I have 0 of these new ones. For probably the last year and a half, I've only been buying .com, I don't see that changing at all. For the money some of you are spending, you could get some really decent ones as well. I think there is this myth that you can't, and people fall in love with premium keywords, even when they pair them with new extensions that don't make sense. The ones that have a shot, are usually gone before mainstream registration, and usually after day 1 for sure. If you're buying something on day 2 forward, it's probably a waste of money. It would be interesting to see any sales in the future, what day they were bought on, I think it would be very enlightening.

 

[loupe]

They already can, before the . But this all seems very familiar to me



You might have me confused with somebody else. I think it was you or somebody else that kind of went off a little on Ms. Domainer saying she was a new gtld hater, when she bought some herself. I have 0 of these new ones. For probably the last year and a half, I've only been buying .com, I don't see that changing at all. For the money some of you are spending, you could get some really decent ones as well. I think there is this myth that you can't, and people fall in love with premium keywords, even when they pair them with new extensions that don't make sense. The ones that have a shot, are usually gone before mainstream registration, and usually after day 1 for sure. If you're buying something on day 2 forward, it's probably a waste of money. It would be interesting to see any sales in the future, what day they were bought on, I think it would be very enlightening.

You're right, i think it was Ms Domainer. I've recently also bought a few .com / .org / .net domains btw.
But i'm as curious as you are to see how sales will develop for these new type of domains. What i noticed straight from the launch of the first few and the "last" few is the registries seem to be selling them directly without offering them even on Day 1 or Landrush. Not counting the 100 a registry is allowed to reserve or icann collision list.

I can tell you i did invest in quite a few from the very first day they were launched and i noticed at this point it is getting a bit harder to find the gems. So who knows, maybe more domainers interested but i suspect registries are starting to make more deals behind the curtains

 

[JB Lions]

So who knows, maybe more domainers interested but i suspect registries are starting to make more deals behind the curtains

Right, that was clearly demonstrated when somebody did an about face from what they said on video, moving a bunch of domains over to another company. Keep the good ones, let the domainers fight over the leftovers. Who's winning in that situation.

 

[Kate]

Now people simply have alot more choice. Niche type sectors / business / etc can choose to pinpoint a specific domain which makes sense on the left and right for their needs.

This is the whole point :gl: plenty of choice, no scarcity and little no demand. How many companies are going to buy new TLD domain names from domainers ?
Because appraisals depend on the ability to sell domains.

We will slowly see as the years go by that the top 500 will use these too or even new ones enter that top.

What do you mean ? You mean that some companies will shift to their own corpTLDs eg. sony .cannon .google etc ?
It doesn't mean that other TLDs like .center automatically become more attractive or meaningful... just because there is 'exposure' for a certain TLD doesn't make me want to buy another TLD... again, each TLD is different.