Domains "Taken" From Account Auctions/Closeouts

[DomainVP]

Hello to everyone.

Has anyone purchased a closeout or auction domain only to have it not arrive and GoDaddy states that "someone else bought it first"?

Let me be specific: I purchased a closeout domain hosted with GoDaddy, and I received a "Thank You For your Purchase" receipt. The domain then appears in my "Won" tab within the auctions panel, and has an arrival date etc..

The date of arrival comes, and then I get a "refund" instead of the domain.

This only started happening recently, but today it happened for a second time SPECIFICALLY to a domain that I feel has a bit of value. The first one ended up in the GoDaddy NameFind portfolio, which raised massive red flags to me. This one went to an account with privacy on it now (shocker).

I don't buy any of it, the system is still telling me that I'm the buyer aka "HIGHEST BIDDER".

I hate to accuse, but I know the process if someone actually buys it before you and the system processes both payments. This isn't it.

To be clear: I'm not talking about domains hosted with another registrar, these frequently don't convert because someone renews it. These are domains hosted at GoDaddy, won & paid for, and then the day of arrival they go somewhere else and then I get a refund and a half-answer from Auctions.

Now that you know the back story...
The TWO questions I am looking for answer for are:
1) Since GoDaddy implemented the 100% guaranteed purchase of closeout/auction domains, have you had a GoDaddy registered domain in your "Won" panel not come to you?
2) If yes, then have they told you that "Someone else had purchased it moments before"?

 

[DomainVP]

Has anyone experienced this?

 

[DomainVP]

I didn't check the others but the most recent refund from 5 days ago was registered at enom

I get if it got renewed.

Thank you for your feedback!

I agree 100%, if this were outside the GD registrar this would be understandable.

But for a GD registered domain to be assigned to me, the system says I won, receipt and payment processed - only to have a domain yanked from me on the delivery date is suspicious at best.

How would the system know someone else was 'the winner' if the system is saying I won. Sounds like something manually done.

Honestly, my theory is that they earmark certain domains so regardless of a 'winner' if they want it they will take it.

The .COM domains in question are:
Risk // Scores
Accu // Post

Risk // Scores was won / purchased by me and just delivered to GoDaddy through their NameFind portfolio.
Accu // Post won / purchased by me and was delivered to an account with WhoIs under privacy.

 

[DomainVP]

This is a pretty simple fix, just don't use GD unless you really, truly, want the name.

True, a lot of people have gone that route. However...

Avoidance of an issue never gets something fixed.

The GD platform has a lot to offer, and under the leadership of Joe Styler many positive changes have been made. But when something seems unbalanced/unfair it's important to sort it out and see if we can make things better.

There was an issue with GD employees purchasing names internally, that was rectified only after a public conversation.

I think GD is a great company, but when something is amiss they need to know to make a positive change.

(Never experienced that.)

Thanks, yeah I don't know if this issue happens to many people.

Typically if someone buys faster the domain just goes to them, and although a payment is processed the system says they are the winner and I get refunded. I'm not thrilled by that - but you win some, you lose some.

My issue is that they system identifies me as the winner, and the domain still went to another 'person' - once it was clearly GoDaddy themselves.

 

[DomainVP]

Hi Joe, thanks for your reply allow me to take a second to respond.

you can send me the domain and I can look into it further.

The .COM domains in question (without the spaces and //) are:
Risk // Scores
Accu // Post

We do not bid on any domains at the auction

These are closeout domains that I am having issues with.

We also do not retain any domains for ourselves instead of sending them to expired auction. What I believe you are seeing on the WHOIS is the fact that every domain name that is fulfilled on our auction passes through a holding account which we tried to make very clear - is a holding account. The WHOIS will list our name and address as "Afternic - Pending buyer fulfillment" or something similar as the Name field

The domain did not go to the "Afternic - Pending buyer fulfillment" or "Afternic - On Behalf of Buyer". The domain in question went directly to the Namefind Portfolio account "Grand Cayman" / "KY" WhoIs.

Yes there are cases when that happens. They are rare but happen more often now that the demand for closeouts is extremely high. We have a system in place where if a closeout is added to the cart it adds a hold on the domain for you to be able to complete the checkout process. The issue is that in these cases where someone buys it before you, you and that other party are adding the domain to the cart within fractions of a second of each other, too quickly for our system to catch that and place a hold for any other parties.

I would wager that the original poster here is scripting the site or using an API and that it is being added at the more or less the same exact time as someone else doing the same thing. There is a great amount of demand on the closeouts now as I have stated. And even so the hold system catches this most of the time but there are domains that this is happening to and in that case it is going to the fastest person even if they are beating you by milliseconds.

Okay let me dive into this. Yes, someone can purchase a domain faster while the domain is in the 'holding'/'add to cart' period but when that happens a payment will process but the system will not award the domain to you. The domain is awarded to the other buyer, and will appear in their "won" section.

So there are instances where I have added a domain to the cart at the same exact time someone else did, and they paid before me by milliseconds yet our payments both submitted. In these cases the domain does NOT appear in my 'won' tab, nor does it assign me as "High Bidder" it says "outbid" and that's that.

It happens... I then file for a refund and it's awarded. No big deal.
Your team has been excellent facilitating my needs in this situation.


The issue here is that when I purchase a domain, I am the first payer AND I have been designated as the winner "High Bidder" by the system. Payment is processed, the domain will go into my "won" tab, and gives me an expected arrival date as expected. The domain then becomes "SOLD" and I am still the "high bidder". If my payment was second to another the system would have designated me as "outbid" and I would have not seen the domain in my "won" section.

Later the arrival date comes and these domains got diverted somewhere else and then I get a refund.

My problem is that the system is telling me that I paid first, and then mysteriously the domain just goes somewhere else.


Let me say this Joe. You and your team does an excellent job. I just had to communicate this here because I get canned responses when the problems get any more complicated than, "how do I connect my hosting".

I totally understand that systems make mistakes, especially when you are dealing with thousands of customers per second. Based on the information provided to me by the system, I believe that these domains should be in my account and may have accidentally gone elsewhere. What makes me feel like it was intentional are these canned responses I get from some of the agents when I am clearly taking the time to meticulously go thought the issue.

Your time and attention to this is appreciated Joe.

 

[DomainVP]

And also just to clarify. In a situation like this we do not take domains from people's accounts. You may be able to pay and see the domain in your won section on the auctions but we will realize there is an error and that there was another faster auction winner prior to awarding the domain to anyone and we will automatically refund the domain in question. This "automatic" refund is a manual process by the support team so it might not be instant but it should come in the latest at 48 hours. Because it is rare we do not have an automated process around it and it needs to be processed manually. If you are not seeing a refund automatically in that time period please let me know and I will have the team check into it for me.

This also is not happening.

The domain gets sent to another account on the 7th day, my reception day. That's the day I got the refund, not within the 48 hours.

The system is telling me that I am the winning bidder, so I'm not even sure how the support team would even see that if they are looking at the same system information.


If someone pays faster I immediately see "outbid" and the domain won't land into my account. Months ago ONCE I had a domain land into my account and then it was redirected within 48 hours. But honestly, even that just sounds less than transparent.


I get that if you play the closeout domain game you get what you get and you are going to deal with some issues. However, in this instance I believe that I purchased these domains first and fastest, and somehow they were sent elsewhere in error.

 

[Keith]

I will not comment on any customer info due to our privacy policies. I will say that neither domain is owned by us, has been awarded to us, Namefind, our partners etc. They are both owned by other customers bidding on the auctions just like you.

I audited the logs on the two names and here are the results. Keep in mind these are showing full second increments not milliseconds. I can't get that without pulling the developers off other projects. So the add to cart was probably extremely close in both cases.

The payments though are far enough apart to not need to pull milliseconds and that is what triggers awarding the domain name on a BIN auction. The add to cart triggers a hold to stop allowing others to add the same name so you can pay.

RiskScores

You
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:27 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:40 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:28 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:37 AM

Accupost

You
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:18 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:11 AM

You already stated that when the domain is added to the cart it’s held. In this case “you” added to the cart a second ahead of the “auction winner”.

Did the domain go to “you”?

I’m referring to the 5/26 transaction.

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

Wow they were close

 

[Keith]

@Keith It is and I also stated that sometimes it happens so fast we cannot hold it, and that this shows seconds and not milliseconds. It is quite possible that though the second shows 27 and 28 at a full second that the add to the cart was on the back end of the 27th second by one person and the front end of the 28th by the next. It is definitely split second and not full, and likely very very close. Which I stated up front is why this happens sometimes and while rare, more often now that closeouts are extremely competitive.

In the case of riskscores.com it’s obvious that it should go to “you”. Your system either holds first in cart or it doesn’t.

 

[BRANDERX]

My experience is that it is held for 2 hours EXACTLY. Then if the payment isn't made, it'll show up at the auction search page, not the regular page.

Recently, unless I am signed in, the name could just disappear seconds or minutes later.

 

[Keith]

@Keith I don't think you are understanding how this works. The hold is there to help prevent the bad customer experience of buying a name and not getting it because someone else paid for it first. It normally works.
The hold makes NO difference on who gets the domain. The payment for the domain determines that in a BIN auction.

Theoretically as an extreme example you could throw a domain in your cart and never pay for it, then days later decide you want to buy it after someone else already paid and was awarded the domain in their account. We wouldn't give you the domain because you added it to the cart first. There are a lot of other considerations as well, for example, how do we know you adding a domain to the cart means you want to buy it and will buy it, and that your payment will work, etc? I add stuff to the cart all the time at companies and don't pay ultimately. If we went by that the ramifications on the auction would be substantial.

On our auction and any other that I know of its the payment that matters in a BIN auction. If you pay first you win. If not you lose.

Thanks for the clarification!

A simple solution would be to allow a time limit for payment on domains added to carts. For example, I’m the first to add to my cart and I have 10-15 mins to complete payment. Seems fair!

 

[DomainVP]

I will not comment on any customer info due to our privacy policies. I will say that neither domain is owned by us, has been awarded to us, Namefind, our partners etc. They are both owned by other customers bidding on the auctions just like you.

I audited the logs on the two names and here are the results. Keep in mind these are showing full second increments not milliseconds. I can't get that without pulling the developers off other projects. So the add to cart was probably extremely close in both cases.

The payments though are far enough apart to not need to pull milliseconds and that is what triggers awarding the domain name on a BIN auction. The add to cart triggers a hold to stop allowing others to add the same name so you can pay.

RiskScores

You
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:27 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:40 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 5/26/2020 10:51:28 AM
Payment: 5/26/2020 10:51:37 AM

Accupost

You
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:18 AM

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:11 AM

Thanks Joe. I really appreciate a clear breakdown of what happened. I know the “add to cart” times get exceptionally close so I appreciate the support you and your team provide.

Just a few questions...

AccuPost winner had a 1 second payment process?

So at best it takes me MANY seconds to get through the three page payment process after the domain is added to cart.

Was this an API purchase? If so I thought that this has been stopped when it comes to closeouts.

If not, then how can I get my cart setup so that I don’t have to go through three pages of payment agreements. To even add to cart as a non-API user it takes a few seconds to process.

I’ve set default payment, but there is still a payment selection screen, and agreement screen, and a pay and confirm screen.

Best advice is appreciated Joe.

 

[DomainVP]

Auction Winner:
Added to Cart: 6/5/2020 11:03:10 AM
Payment: 6/5/2020 11:03:11 AM

It is at this point that we are back to the original issue.

No matter how fast your purchase a domain, the API Backdoor will always beat you because they can snipe a domain in 1 second when it takes at least 6-8 seconds AT BEST to get though the payment portal.

This has been going on for 3 years, and I though it would be fixed by now.

It's a backdoor that gives API purchase users an advantage.

 

[Shackleton]

lynns.net was in my "won" section and paid for. Then I received this email from Godaddy.

Error on registration. Your purchase could not be completed, therefore we will be refunding the cost of registration

 

[DomainVP]

Notice how lots of times those "late bidders" don't even bid further. I started calling these "seed bids" and they're the worst kind, because all they do is bring in HD 90% of the time. I suspect they do it on purpose, or maybe they're just naive...

The initial "late bid" that comes in the last 5 minutes are mostly from naive buyers from olden times when a bid within he last 5 minutes might not get attention.

The initial first bid could also be out of frustration missing closeouts. Though most domains that fall to closeout aren't very good, and the ones that are it's hit or miss because of these API users that have 1 second purchase times.

Any bid after that is typically spite to get the HD bot attention forcing the initial bidder to lose the domain or pay dearly for it. HD bot typically won't go over $125 - $150 depending on the name.

Most of these closeout domains that go to $150+ are overpriced from the 1st bid. Any more than $20-$30 and they aren't worth the risk. As far as I'm concerned at least.

Heck of a game we play isn't it...

 

[DomainVP]

lynns.net was in my "won" section and paid for. Then I received this email from Godaddy.

Error on registration. Your purchase could not be completed, therefore we will be refunding the cost of registration

How long was it before you received the refund?

 

[Shackleton]

Originally billed June 16th and refunded today, June 20th.

 

[BRANDERX]

@Joe Styler this is kinda off topic, but since you're here & it probably isn't worth a new thread.

Why would a name "repossessed by GoDaddy" be at an auction with 0 bids but with a minimum bid of ($whatever) that ends in 14 days?

The way I understood it, GoDaddy repossessed the name, wants $whatever for it & if no higher bids are placed, its mine.

Did I answer my own question? lol

Thanks

 

[BRANDERX]

If the domain is at auction and registered with us you should get the domain if you win the auction.

I just thought the number was kinda unexplained, its not the regular closeout price, but still, very little.

Thanks Styler

 

[pb]

Typically domains that expire at GoDaddy will go to your account after you win them

Typically - ok. But can you list the exceptions? I mean the rules for making an exception?

I'm asking because there is specifically one owner whose names are never transferred - recently (Jun 20) there was a whole batch of cancelled auction wins - some for mid-xxxx - and closeout purchases (also by me), all domains registered at GoDaddy and all to one owner. I've had a purchase cancelled in february, also by the same owner. Years ago the same continuously happened with their domains at namejet prerelease auctions (the domains were then registered at enom). You probably know which domains I'm talking about but I can send you a list and even the owner's name via PM.

 

[dombastic]

Has anyone experienced this?

Several times.

Error on registration.
Your purchase could not be completed, therefore we will be refunding the cost of registration.
We apologize for any inconvenience.

In other cases the email text was different.

 

[Joe Styler]

Typically - ok. But can you list the exceptions? I mean the rules for making an exception?

I'm asking because there is specifically one owner whose names are never transferred - recently (Jun 20) there was a whole batch of cancelled auction wins - some for mid-xxxx - and closeout purchases (also by me), all domains registered at GoDaddy and all to one owner. I've had a purchase cancelled in february, also by the same owner. Years ago the same continuously happened with their domains at namejet prerelease auctions (the domains were then registered at enom). You probably know which domains I'm talking about but I can send you a list and even the owner's name via PM.

If you send me some examples I can look into it.