debate Domainers Stealing Domains from Domainers

[Dandelion]

Hey Folks,

This issue has been bothering me for a while now and I just needed to get it out for us to have a debate on it.

Why are Domainers so willing to steal domains from other Domainers?

I don't mean outright conventional stealing, I mean stealing through the auctions. We all have lost good domains to this scenario, and it keeps happening every day at Sedo, Namejet, and here at Namepros.

When someone set their auctions at $1 starting bid, they so to encourage bids, not to sell at $1. If we placed a $1 bid and the auction ended with no further bids, I think we are under moral obligation to confirm with the seller whether they are truly willing to sell at that price.

I mean, why would someone pay €59 to auction a name at Sedo and another Domainers takes the domain at $20 because the auction was set at a $20 starting bid? To me, it is morally unacceptable and should be discouraged. And I see this happening every day.

While we do not have control nor a say about what happens at Sedo and other private platforms, I think we should do something about Namepros. Won't it be nice if we confirm from a seller whether they are willing to sell at bottom price. Isn't it wicked and inconsiderate to aggressively enforce what seems to be your right in this case?

Anytime you sneak a domain at a low starting bid, lower below capital, you help push another Domainers out of business.

Note: I am not judging anyone nor accusing anyone of anything wrong. Just stating what I assume should be a standard in this industry.

So, let's have your own line of debate about what you believe and why. I also added a poll to help better understand what's the majority believes should be the case.

Happy Weekend!

 

[Bertrell]

The poll asks: "Is it okay to legally steal domains through auction?"

How does one legally steal something? Rephrase, lol. As it stands, it's a contradiction.

 

[Dandelion]

Nothing should surprise you when request threads demanding names for $1 to 5 dollars with criteria even are rather routine here.There are very very cheap people here.

This is a topic for another discussion because that request section is something that I think should be looked into. Everything that goes on in there cheapens our domain business.

 

[carob]

Maybe change thread title to "Is it ok to give away domains at auction?"

 

[vravis9]

I understand your point here...

But the words you used and the title is totally wrong in regards to the content.

I don't get it when you said "moral obligation"

What moral obligation...someone is trying to sell their names and bidders trying to get it at lowest possible amount...and the seller is aware of this possibility and accepted to this possibility when he agreed to NamePros T&C !!

You are doing business here there is nothing to be categorised under moral obligation...purely business

People set $1 starting to get attention and get the bidding war going on....as the buyers will try their luck to get at smallest amount possible...and seller here agreeing to this the minute he starts auction thread.

there is nothing called stealing in this scenario!

and someone mentioned the expected prices here are usually in low XX digits...thats the truth

I saw many established domainers starting $1 for their names and bids going into hundreds and thousands too...this is usually for one word / 4L / highly brandable names.

I always thought they are going to sell it for loss,,,but they know the market and value of their name.

one more thing you can do is add more to the package...I saw today one auction by @equity78 he gave full details of the name...if it has pitched in outbound efforts...highest offers received...and then he added one more name to the auction without any additional cost...and then an ad space on his blog for two months...

I am only sharing about this because I saw that couple of hours ago and I thought it is perfectly informed about name and added additional value without any extra cost...i thought this is a good strategy. and i came across this thread thought it can be an example to follow, so mentioning it.

@dande you are saying about low cost purchases as stealing...that is loss to seller...there is another side...shill bidding...if seller uses this buyer needs to pay more than it rightfully deserves. i lost a name in this way long ago...

there are different practices here. we have to be careful and choose which one is correct for us and others.

In conclusion...
if the seller starts an auction with $1 starting bid....that implies that he is aware of T&C and agreeing to sell as per the same T&C.
The buyer is bidding to get the name at $1 and will expect the same without any form obligations / requesting needed again separately.

you should have rethought before posting with that title.

there is no stealing in the above-mentioned situation. only business!

I hope you understood my points...and take it positively.

Thanks,
Ravi.

 

[ak1985]

To prevent this from happening i had set an reserve price for my auction but did not get much bids because of the reserve price. Also namepros admin said that according to namepros rules, reserve price is not allowed in auctions here.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Is there not an obligation to complete a sale once an auction had bids? If we went to a system where once an auction completes people decided if they really wanted to sell it would have undesired consequences.

We all realize that prices are low here, much of the time. A seller should realize a name could sell at starting bid and set that accordingly.

I think sometimes people auction names they have decided they want to give up on but they still feel have value and would rather see the domain go to another NamePros member rather than expire or into an expired auction where other organizations make money off the domain.

Bob

 

[Lox]

1. Why are Domainers so willing to steal domains from other Domainers?

2. I mean, why would someone pay €59 to auction a name at Sedo and another Domainers takes the domain at $20 because the auction was set at a $20 starting bid?

1. When domain name doesn’t mean anything to me, still there’s nothing but potential, ... not seeing opportunity ... I’m going to start $1 auction and accept that 1x $1 bid.

1a. If I win your auction for $1 , you’ll receive $9 + ... you won’t get rich but at least reg fee covered.

2. Hope and Auction is a marketing channel. Not a strategy. + Domainers/Flippers value-based pricing strategies are not truly value-based.

Regards

 

[Dandelion]

To prevent this from happening i had set an reserve price for my auction but did not get much bids because of the reserve price. Also namepros admin said that according to namepros rules, reserve price is not allowed in auctions here.

Who else think that Namepros admins should consider allowing Reserve prices in auctions? I mean, that is standard in every auction, why should here be different.

 

[bmugford]

Simply winning an auction is obviously not "stealing".

Listing the auction is the seller's choice. The moral obligation is on the seller to follow through with the auction. If the domain was that good it would likely sell for a higher price.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Anytime you sneak a domain at a low starting bid, lower below capital, you help push another Domainers out of business.

This is just how business works. Not everyone who does something has the necessary skills or puts in the time & effort to be successful in a field.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Who else think that Namepros admins should consider allowing Reserve prices in auctions? I mean, that is standard in every auction, why should here be different.

Maybe. That is a whole different subject than referring to winning an auction as "stealing".

Brad

 

[Mister Funsky]

I must say up front I have not read the whole thread...having said that:

If you wont be happy with a $1 sale, don't start your bid there. I got on board with ebay when it was only 6 months old and ended up with a xx,xxx rating at 99.6 positive level when that project ended...so I have extensive auction experience.

The only stealing going on in the industry is the outright fraud by those hacking personal info and getting control of a name long enough to sell it...also, there more than one registrar out there that will take a name without proper notice or justification.

On that note, check you domain locks on a regular basis..there are bad seeds everywhere and it is not that hard for someone that works at a registrar to do dastardly things...always (and on a regular basis) download your portfolio to excel or start a spreadsheet if your registrar does not make it easy to do so. Although it is a pain and will take a small investment in ink, print out a copy of every time you register and/or renew a name...it would be invaluable in proving a name that 'disappeared' from you account actually belonged to you.

 

[HotKey]

Domainers Stealing Domains from Domainers

Title to this thread is very misleading, @dande I think many would appreciate if you modified it.

Winning a domain in auction at a steal is in no way near or related to domain theft, and associating NP marketplace with such a claim is way more irresponsible than risking a potential loss of a higher-value domain to an auction that didn't end at an expected result.

Reserve auction would have to be actively monitored by a bot or a person, and seeing as anyone can participate on NP marketplace without paying a dime who's going eat that maintenance? I find reserves a waste of everyone's time for the most part.

If you don't want to lose your name at a steal, there are a variety of strategies to employ for the auction, there are no "assumptions" that beginning at $1 the ending will be cupcakes and ice cream. This is part of the risk/reward and if you are worried, go fixed price or begin the auction at a comfortable minimum.

 

[DaveX]

Sometimes there are reasons a seller starts an auction at $0 or $1. Could be the domain is expiring or expired. Could be they need money fast. Could be need a dollar.

In any event, it's rare that auctions here on NP actually end at one dollar.

When a registrar offers a registration special at a dollar or five dollars, we all go running to get the cheap price. It's a steal...why not?

I have had times when I felt bad and offered to allow the seller to restart his/her auction to see if they get more than $1 or $2. One time, the seller was very happy that I let them out of the deal.

Anyway, sellers must know that they might only end up with the amount of the starting bid.

 

[xynames]

No reserve - must sell. Otherwise, put a reserve.

If there is no “reserve” mechanism, have the starting bid reflect your reserve.


But - let’s face it, most NP buyers have no imagination or guts and pucker up at the prospect of an auction that has a starting bid above about $50. No one wants to be the first bidder. But that same auction start it at a dollar and once they see the herd bidding it above $100 they all stampede in.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Maybe. That is a whole different subject than referring to winning an auction as "stealing".

Brad

I agree, different discussion, but I would personally say I hope that NamePros do NOT introduce reserves. I hate the lack of transparency of low starting bids but some unknown reserve. If you want a minimum price, then start at that price. Simple, clear.

To the OP, if you ware not willing to sell at the open price, don't list it at that price!

Bob

 

[HiFiNames.com]

I am a successful seller at namepros. Many domains I bought even for $1 to $10 has paid me hundreds of dollars at Namepros


I want to make a small summary

Domainers buy domains with small investment like $10 to trade for profit.

Like any other business domain trading also has both ends. Profit or loss.

You can sell domain for profit at namepros only if

1) The domain has some willing to domainers (resellers not talking about end users )

2) The timing of the auction is perfect. If you start on Friday and end on Sunday (or on holidays) very less chances of sales or high bid.

3) Good marketing makes more bids. Poor titles, less followup in bumps or no details of how old the domain is, how many other extensions of the domain were registered, missing relevant details makes low or no bids

4) More expiry duration gets more bids.
Most domains not getting more bids because the auctions were at just 1 month from expiry or low.


So If you have high value domains and willing to sell for high profit / end use, then NamePros is not for you. NamePros no waiting of selling. But with lesser price to domainers. At the same time it is good to sell for low price than renewing it for many years without a sale.

In my experience I had sold a domain for low price at NP and then got a 20 X higher value offer from end user. Then I contacted the NPer and bought back with 2X price and sold for 20X price of NP auction. But this happens in a very case. Mostly NP auctions saves lot of renewal money. Most domains bought by NPers are sold again as they use other marketing methods than me and sell many. So it depends on each NPer.

I am not vouching NP members. It is my opinion. Correct me if I am wrong.

English is not my native language. So I am sorry if lot of grammar mistakes.

 

[FolioTeam]

So

I agree with you. Sometimes we just want to let it go, probably because we're tired of renewal or just want someone else to try. That's why I said it would be nice to inquire from the seller if he's willing to let go at $1. Because I know most times, people just want to get their auctions started

So, if the seller is not willing to let go at $1, then what? (If you don't mind my asking. Just curious here)

 

[Dandelion]

No reserve - must sell. Otherwise, put a reserve.

If there is no “reserve” mechanism, have the starting bid reflect your reserve.

But - let’s face it, most NP buyers have no imagination or guts and pucker up at the prospect of an auction that has a starting bid above about $50. No one wants to be the first bidder. But that same auction start it at a dollar and once they see the herd bidding it above $100 they all stampede in.

You understand what goes on here, 100%. That's exactly the reason most people take the hard risk and start their auctions at $1. And if by any circumstances you're not able to get more than a bid, you end up losing the name.

Most domainer here simply don't know what truly sell nor what they want. So they judge domain value base on the herd bidding. Once you're unable to pull the herd, you lose the name.

 

[Dandelion]

I have had times when I felt bad and offered to allow the seller to restart his/her auction to see if they get more than $1 or $2. One time, the seller was very happy that I let them out of the deal.

This clearly illustrates what I'm talking about. Countless of auction ends at less than desirable outcome. Sometimes it won't hurt to be a little considerate. To do that, you have to look beyond the obvious.