debate Domainers Stealing Domains from Domainers

[dande]

Hey Folks,

This issue has been bothering me for a while now and I just needed to get it out for us to have a debate on it.

Why are Domainers so willing to steal domains from other Domainers?

I don't mean outright conventional stealing, I mean stealing through the auctions. We all have lost good domains to this scenario, and it keeps happening every day at Sedo, Namejet, and here at Namepros.

When someone set their auctions at $1 starting bid, they so to encourage bids, not to sell at $1. If we placed a $1 bid and the auction ended with no further bids, I think we are under moral obligation to confirm with the seller whether they are truly willing to sell at that price.

I mean, why would someone pay €59 to auction a name at Sedo and another Domainers takes the domain at $20 because the auction was set at a $20 starting bid? To me, it is morally unacceptable and should be discouraged. And I see this happening every day.

While we do not have control nor a say about what happens at Sedo and other private platforms, I think we should do something about Namepros. Won't it be nice if we confirm from a seller whether they are willing to sell at bottom price. Isn't it wicked and inconsiderate to aggressively enforce what seems to be your right in this case?

Anytime you sneak a domain at a low starting bid, lower below capital, you help push another Domainers out of business.

Note: I am not judging anyone nor accusing anyone of anything wrong. Just stating what I assume should be a standard in this industry.

So, let's have your own line of debate about what you believe and why. I also added a poll to help better understand what's the majority believes should be the case.

Happy Weekend!

 

[DrJacoby]

Calling it stealing is like a bad joke.

If you're not willing to sell your domain for $1, then don't start the auction at $1.

 

[equity78]

The notion that it's stealing is completely preposterous bordering on absurd. This is not the place to get what you want for your domain names. If anyone is coming to Namepros looking to sell names for their true worth they need to do an about face and hit the back button on the browser.

Some people love buying a name for $1, whether it's trash or not. There are people that will bid $1 and never bid again. I have conducted 100's of auctions here and there are some people I know are going to show up first and then never bid again. Sometimes they bid $1 when the name is obviously worth $1,000 min, they just like to bid to be apart of the show.

Reserve prices are there to make sure you don't get "robbed" you can't do that here so you can start the auction higher. This is a wholesale site and the lowest rung of wholesale. I ask friends all the time why are you willing to give GoDaddy your money or even a public auction of another domainer on GoDaddy or NameJet but you would not pay the same price on Namepros? Many reply, "Bro it's namepros." Others don't see it as a serious place to do high volume business, they believe Namepros should be the place where you get an unbelievable bargain.

There are auctions here where the high bid is $500 and someone will bid $501, they don't want to even risk bidding $4 than they have to, other platforms you don't even have the luxury of bidding in $1 increments and they are fine with that.

On the flipside, when I bid if I see a name I like I will pop it $10 maybe even $80, sometimes someone will ask why bid that much? Because I want to shake out the $1 at a time make this auction last forever bidders, I appreciate those who do the same, look if a name is a reg fee name but you kinda like it I understand $1 bid, but when it's a valuable name why just bid $1?

This is not a place for end users, there might be the occasional sale but of course you are selling names to end users that would get nothing here.

I used to put up sales here, get no interest and then look at that as a positive because for a couple years I had like 6 names that no one would give me $25 for that I sold for $2,000 to $10,000. It's two different worlds.

 

[JB Lions]

Don't think there is really anything to debate. Seller decides starting bid, they control that. If not 1 domainer here is willing to bid more than $1, that might be telling you something.

 

[JB Lions]

You aren't getting the point. Sellers set their auction at $1, not because they are willing to sell at that price, but just to get the auction started. I think you should reason beyond the obvious

You're not getting the point. If it's not get any bids or just a $1 bid, then obviously domainers don't think much of the domain. It's not like domainers are picking up good domains for $1 here.

 

[Tia Wood]

I've lost a few domains because I was stupid enough to set the starting big way too low. I learned and did not do that again.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Is there not an obligation to complete a sale once an auction had bids? If we went to a system where once an auction completes people decided if they really wanted to sell it would have undesired consequences.

We all realize that prices are low here, much of the time. A seller should realize a name could sell at starting bid and set that accordingly.

I think sometimes people auction names they have decided they want to give up on but they still feel have value and would rather see the domain go to another NamePros member rather than expire or into an expired auction where other organizations make money off the domain.

Bob

 

[bojan1]

If someone is not prepared to sell his/her domain for $1 he shouldn't set starting bid $1. I sold many domains for $1 here, and I don't regret at all because that was their real value at the time. Which means I made mistake by registering them. Also, I have bought many domains for $1 here, and sold some of them for a great ROI... but I had to do outbound, which means it took some effort to sell.

At the end selling some domains for such low price ($1) forced me to become more picky when buying some domains, at the end I became better investor. Fail, fail, fail.... win.... fail, fail, fail, fail, win.... that is how you win in real life.

 

[trap3]

I strongly think we must have a reserve included into auctions...every marketplace has reserve auctions.

There IS a reserve price in namepros auctions.
It's the STARTING bid.

This really is one of the most mind numbing threads ever.
Painful, that there is even any discussion over this (regarding OP).

 

[Blitzpotz]

When I was a child and played board games with adults they always had to let me win. Because if I lost I would throw the board through the room so angry I was. I could not lose though I was old enough to know that losing is part of the game and continued winning is impossible.

Happy these times are over. In August I sold a name in a Namepros auction. Starting bid $1, result $3 (!) and I was disappointed because I knew the domain had more value, at least for me. The buyer, a super nice guy, wrote in a DM: "If you wanted to just cancel and keep it, I would be totally okay with that, it's your call, if you were hoping to get more for it." But I never would´ve accepted this, I would have felt like I was a child again. Even if this name had been coin dot com or similar, I´d have transfered it for $3 (easy to say, I know).

This thread has a lot to do with pride and faith and reliability. If you give your word, keep it. And think before you act to make a good decision.

 

[dande]

Don't think there is really anything to debate. Seller decides starting bid, they control that. If not 1 domainer here is willing to bid more than $1, that might be telling you something.

Not getting more than one person willing to bid more than $1 does say anything about the domain in some cases. I had a domain sold $15000. Yet the domain couldn't get $1 bid several times it was placed at auction here

 

[vravis9]

I understand your point here...

But the words you used and the title is totally wrong in regards to the content.

I don't get it when you said "moral obligation"

What moral obligation...someone is trying to sell their names and bidders trying to get it at lowest possible amount...and the seller is aware of this possibility and accepted to this possibility when he agreed to NamePros T&C !!

You are doing business here there is nothing to be categorised under moral obligation...purely business

People set $1 starting to get attention and get the bidding war going on....as the buyers will try their luck to get at smallest amount possible...and seller here agreeing to this the minute he starts auction thread.

there is nothing called stealing in this scenario!

and someone mentioned the expected prices here are usually in low XX digits...thats the truth

I saw many established domainers starting $1 for their names and bids going into hundreds and thousands too...this is usually for one word / 4L / highly brandable names.

I always thought they are going to sell it for loss,,,but they know the market and value of their name.

one more thing you can do is add more to the package...I saw today one auction by @equity78 he gave full details of the name...if it has pitched in outbound efforts...highest offers received...and then he added one more name to the auction without any additional cost...and then an ad space on his blog for two months...

I am only sharing about this because I saw that couple of hours ago and I thought it is perfectly informed about name and added additional value without any extra cost...i thought this is a good strategy. and i came across this thread thought it can be an example to follow, so mentioning it.

@dande you are saying about low cost purchases as stealing...that is loss to seller...there is another side...shill bidding...if seller uses this buyer needs to pay more than it rightfully deserves. i lost a name in this way long ago...

there are different practices here. we have to be careful and choose which one is correct for us and others.

In conclusion...
if the seller starts an auction with $1 starting bid....that implies that he is aware of T&C and agreeing to sell as per the same T&C.
The buyer is bidding to get the name at $1 and will expect the same without any form obligations / requesting needed again separately.

you should have rethought before posting with that title.

there is no stealing in the above-mentioned situation. only business!

I hope you understood my points...and take it positively.

Thanks,
Ravi.

 

[wizard]

The thread should be changed it’s very misleading...

 

[Bertrell]

The poll asks: "Is it okay to legally steal domains through auction?"

How does one legally steal something? Rephrase, lol. As it stands, it's a contradiction.

 

[HotKey]

Domainers Stealing Domains from Domainers

Title to this thread is very misleading, @dande I think many would appreciate if you modified it.

Winning a domain in auction at a steal is in no way near or related to domain theft, and associating NP marketplace with such a claim is way more irresponsible than risking a potential loss of a higher-value domain to an auction that didn't end at an expected result.

Reserve auction would have to be actively monitored by a bot or a person, and seeing as anyone can participate on NP marketplace without paying a dime who's going eat that maintenance? I find reserves a waste of everyone's time for the most part.

If you don't want to lose your name at a steal, there are a variety of strategies to employ for the auction, there are no "assumptions" that beginning at $1 the ending will be cupcakes and ice cream. This is part of the risk/reward and if you are worried, go fixed price or begin the auction at a comfortable minimum.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Maybe. That is a whole different subject than referring to winning an auction as "stealing".

Brad

I agree, different discussion, but I would personally say I hope that NamePros do NOT introduce reserves. I hate the lack of transparency of low starting bids but some unknown reserve. If you want a minimum price, then start at that price. Simple, clear.

To the OP, if you ware not willing to sell at the open price, don't list it at that price!

Bob

 

[wwwweb]

The market always provides, Nobody forces anyone to list anything for sale, and if the name is good as honey, the bees will swarm. Nobody is going to pay more than they have to, if they do that is called charity.

If you want to really pick on something it should be the want ads on namepros. The mods need a new strategy there, as people are eating their lives responding to ghosts.

90% are from totally unqualified, or unfounded parties with no feedback, activity,
or trade history looking for something that doesn’t exist.

 

[Keith]

The issue is in the rules.

If you start an auction and set an opening bid, the domain should be a guaranteed sale once the first bid is placed. There should be no option to add a BIN. If you want to list at a firm price that should be a thread that doesn’t allow any offers below bin.

 

[bmugford]

As others have mentioned, even without a reserve, you can just set a high enough starting bid instead.

If it gets a bid then you know it is in a range you are willing to sell it.

If it doesn't get a bid, then you are not obligated to sell it for less than you want.

It is a pretty easy solution.

Brad

 

[equity78]

Well I do realize some love to talk AdNauseam about certain topics, but the facts are:

• Namepros management will not and cannot tell members what price to auction their names for.
• They cannot influence bidding or selling habits in anyway.
• There is no mechanism here for reserve prices, so that's out, there are certain features on a no fee platform that are not going to exist.
• One needs to understand the psychology of auctions.
• Several members run successful auctions here, so maybe those who are not need to look inward.

Here would be a fun exercise, can we get a look at some of the names where the buyer got a "steal" for $1? That would be interesting since the poll is not doing any good as most are opposed to the language used to create the poll. The tags kind of discredit the "oh I did not mean it as stealing" when it says domain theft and morally wrong.

So let's see those $1 bargains.

 

[bmugford]

Thank you for this point. Everyone is saying "set your starting bid at the price you want to sell" as if we don't know that already. The truth is that most auction will not get a bid if the starting bid is above $1.

Good domains get bids. If they don't get bids, they likely are not that good.
If you allow reserves all you are going to get is a cluttered auction forum with stupid reserve prices.

It's so suprising how many people here who can't reason beyond the obvious rules.

You basically accused people who simply win auctions of "stealing" domains and doing something immoral, but now it is others who don't understand "reason"?

Brad

 

[equity78]

Here is a $1 auction where it just sold at the buy it now of $1,000 after several bids. https://www.namepros.com/threads/gr...ppraisal-9400-usd.1158999/page-2#post-7444429

 

[equity78]

See GoDaddy is no fool you want to set a reserve price? We know a lot of bidders don't want to waste their time like @Bob Hawkes mentioned not knowing where a reserve is, but we want to accommodate both sides, and for the privilege of all that we will collect $4.99 a pop. How many want to pay @Paul Buonopane to code the tech for a reserve price?

 

[MTB]

This is the most bizarre thread I've seen on any forum
Why is nobody discussing self-washing socks?

 

[Robin Hablani]

Let’s accept that we all play with the words to make a fortune, something is valuable in my perspective and something is valuable in others perspective...

if you really believe in the domain you have bought, don’t put it on Auction Starting @ 1... Wait for someone to Recognise it!