new gtlds Domain Name News That Will Spook You!

[eenmakkie]

Imagine registering a new domain, at he moment you registered the new domain, it was not a premium top level domain. So you pay a fair price for it.
You think it is yours and every year you have to pay the same renewal price.

That is what I did by godaddy.com
I bought a new TLD domain when they came on the market.

started offering it for sale.

Now when the next renewal is coming close, I went to my godaddy.com account and suddenly they wanted 499.99$ to renew the domain for a year. A huge multiple increase compare to the price I paid to register the name.
I called help desk and they told that the domain has become top level domain name as they have seen the value of it.

what?!!!!!

So you buy a domain, spent a lot of money and work on the website, make a business around it, it becomes big on the market, you start to earn millions and suddenly the registrars can ask you what ever they want to renew your domain as they have seen the value of your domain now?

And if you do not pay the extravagant renewal price they ask, it becomes there's? So then they can sell your hard work?

Is this legal?

So what google.com or facebook.com they bought there domains for 1000 years upfront to avoid that the registrar can ask them a couple of billions to renew their domains?

 

[SiteMachine]

@Joe Styler @SiteMachine @wwwweb @brindle123 please if I am missing something here above and the system works different, let me know and help me here out as I really do not see any way to find it out your self, even if you are checking each day the renewal prices, it will only show you the price of today and not starting 6 months in the future. As far as I now understand the system, only the registrar has control over passing the info of upcoming price hike or not to the registrant.

Again you are conflating the original reason for your post (reclassification to premium) with the registrar's price increase from the registry and failing to clarify so I'm not sure that the people you quoted even know which one you are asking about at this point, I know I don't.

I wasn't suggesting you check the renewal prices daily I suggested you check in on your domain to make sure it hasn't been reclassified as premium every once in a while and the tools are there for you to do so.

What you have done is shown that there may be a market (right now I'd be willing to guess its an extremely small market) for some sort of insurance against tld price increases. I'd never buy it myself and I think you're foolish if you want to pay for that but you literally wrote "I have no problem paying for a security, but it needs to be black on white as an insurance contract."

That says to me you understand you are asking for something above and beyond. Maybe Joe will mention it to godaddy but as the registrar that literally hits you for fees everywhere they can I can't imagine you would come out ahead with this insurance plan. You are asking for insurance against something that there is no good evidence of ever happening before and the chance is probably 0% that it will happen to all your gtld domains if you are diversified so I would be willing to bet when this insurance finally did pay out the $50 or whatever for an increase from 9.99 to 59.99 you will have paid FAR more in premiums for your entire portfolio. You also still have not specified whether such insurance should cover a change to premium or a massive price increase (and exactly what is the threshold of massive that insurance would pay out for? would they pay any increase at all?).

I think its a terrible idea but I do know people love to throw their money away for "peace of mind"

 

[Joe Styler]

I am unaware of any type of insurance product for price increases at any company that sells domains.

GoDaddy prides itself on good customer service and has in the past released price increases.

Price increases do not happen in a vaccuum, they are done by the registry and impact domains from that registry at every registrar. There are hundreds of registrars, each would have its own notification systems in place.

Millions of GTLDs are now registered X Hundreds of registrars = Hundreds of millions of potential emails to customers about increases.

Most Registries are publicly traded, they inform investors of future revenues every quarter ie 3 months.

If you are actively watching your investment in domains you will see a price increase in advance. If you are not actively watching your investments you will not but that doesn't mean notifications were not abundantly clear in advance from multiple sources.

 

[brindle123]

Millions of GTLDs are now registered X Hundreds of registrars = Hundreds of millions of potential emails to customers about increases.

It shouldn't be that hard to get a notice out to customers. Godaddy doesn't have millions of customers. You wouldn't need to send an email for every domain the customer owns. When a registrar gets notice of a price change, all they need to do is send out a mass email to there customers that own that extension. Easy.

I can send an email to everyone in my contacts list with a couple clicks, so that should be a pretty easy thing for a company to do.

Notice of a price change has to be given to the registrar and ICANN by the registry, so I don't think the registrant should be kept out of this loop. Really this should come down in policy from ICANN, but all businesses involved should give any and all notices to their customers in a timely manner.

 

[eenmakkie]

@SiteMachine @Joe Styler

ofcourse the insurance was not to protect for a domain increase! You have misunderstood. I only want to be sure I get notified of a substantial price hike coming in the future by the registrar. If that comes with a premium service that guaranties to be notified, yes, willing to pay for that. Hope it is clear now.

 

[Joe Styler]

Although we do have over 14 million customers (https://aboutus.godaddy.net/newsroom/fact-sheet/default.aspx), I think you misunderstood what I am saying. I am not saying we don't or won't email people because there are too many we do every day. And we have a bit more of a logistical and practical concern in emailing customers than you doing a CC with a couple clicks .


What I am saying is unrelated to GoDaddy individually and our emails. I am saying there are millions of new gtld domains registered among hundreds of registrars, say GoDaddy, Tucows, Namecheap, Enom, etc, etc. All of those companies will be getting notified about the price increase, almost all of those companies WILL email their customers. Most more than one time, which will result in millions of emails being sent about this one subject from many separate companies. Those emails will be shared at blogs and forums and discussed, those notifications WILL make the news, and investor calls. My point is there are way too many touch points from independent sources for anyone to keep this a secret.

It is also important to note, there was no increase. There was a technical error which I have apologized for and we have fixed.

 

[eenmakkie]

Although we do have over 14 million customers , I think you misunderstood what I am saying. I am not saying we don't or won't email people because there are too many we do every day. And we have a bit more of a logistical and practical concern in emailing customers than you doing a CC with a couple clicks .


What I am saying is unrelated to GoDaddy individually and our emails. I am saying there are millions of new gtld domains registered among hundreds of registrars, say GoDaddy, Tucows, Namecheap, Enom, etc, etc. All of those companies will be getting notified about the price increase, almost all of those companies WILL email their customers. Most more than one time, which will result in millions of emails being sent about this one subject from many separate companies. Those emails will be shared at blogs and forums and discussed, those notifications WILL make the news, and investor calls. My point is there are way too many touch points from independent sources for anyone to keep this a secret.

It is also important to note, there was no increase. There was a technical error which I have apologized for and we have fixed.

I understand perfectly that is complicated with 50 million of domains and 14 million of customers. For that reason I tired to explain many times that my question was on a PARTICULAR DOMAIN name or the full URL (expl.: xxxx.villas) level.
Apologies that my English is not that clear, so I will use now all synonyms to bring over the message.
never I spoke about the price increase for the whole extension or domain suffix (expl.: .villas)

now this is clear, please tell me then how I can find out looking on chat forums and groups and news if just one of my domain names will go up in renewal price within the next 6 months if what is shown today as renewal price is only the current price (what can be used for the next 10 years) , never the past price and never the future price that it will be.

Yes, the future is unknown! But only for the registrant as the registrar knows what it will be 6 months in the future.

The whole threat started for an individual domain name.
you tell me it was an error
but this threat has learn me that the registries have the legal right to do it. (blog links before tell that)
so if they can, how do I protect my self against it with the only think I have is that the registries passes price hikes 6 months in advance over to the registrars. the terms&conditions tell them to do it.
And I am still on individual domain name level speaking.

All the answers where always for all the domain names of a particular domain suffix.

 

[Joe Styler]

I understand perfectly that is complicated with 50 million of domains and 14 million of customers. For that reason I tired to explain many times that my question was on a PARTICULAR DOMAIN name or the full URL (expl.: xxxx.villas) level.
Apologies that my English is not that clear, so I will use now all synonyms to bring over the message.
never I spoke about the price increase for the whole extension or domain suffix (expl.: .villas)

now this is clear, please tell me then how I can find out looking on chat forums and groups and news if just one of my domain names will go up in renewal price within the next 6 months if what is shown today as renewal price is only the current price (what can be used for the next 10 years) , never the past price and never the future price that it will be.

Yes, the future is unknown! But only for the registrant as the registrar knows what it will be 6 months in the future.

The whole threat started for an individual domain name.
you tell me it was an error
but this threat has learn me that the registries have the legal right to do it. (blog links before tell that)
so if they can, how do I protect my self against it with the only think I have is that the registries passes price hikes 6 months in advance over to the registrars. the terms&conditions tell them to do it.
And I am still on individual domain name level speaking.

All the answers where always for all the domain names of a particular domain suffix.

That may be the confusion. Just one of your domains cannot go up. If the registry raises prices for a particular tier of premium names they have to raise it for all the names in that particular tier and likely would do it for all names in the tld. They cannot raise the price for one name, or some names they pick it has to be done for every name at that tier level at one time.

 

[eenmakkie]

That may be the confusion. Just one of your domains cannot go up. If the registry raises prices for a particular tier of premium names they have to raise it for all the names in that particular tier and likely would do it for all names in the tld. They cannot raise the price for one name, or some names they pick it has to be done for every name at that tier level at one time.

thanks that answer would be nice coming in the beginning from a registry and stopping this long threat.

But what about Michael Berkens blog http://www.thedomains.com/2015/09/2...-in-the-new-gtld-space-goes-to-mind-machines/
George Kirikos says
September 23, 2015 at 8:32 am
Remember, registry operators of new gTLDs can raise prices at will, with only a notice period requirement. Read the registry agreements for your new gTLDs carefully. I’m guessing most registrars don’t tell their registrants this critical information.

Michael Berkens says
September 23, 2015 at 11:49 am
Alan
All new gTLD registries have the basic same contract with ICANN
New gTLD registries, including Donuts can raise renewal prices, but they have to give a registrant a 6 month notice and give them the opportunity to renew the domain at the current rate for the remainder of the 10 year term


George Kirikos says
September 23, 2015 at 12:02 pm
Actually, that’s not quite correct. The new gTLDs registries have to give *ICANN* and the *registrar* the notice. Whether the registrar passes on the bad news to the clients would be something determined by the RAA — and I don’t think the RAA contemplated that scenario.
BTW, Mike, for “Premium” names, section 2.10(c) of the .horse ICANN agreement says:
“In addition, Registry Operator must have uniform pricing for renewals of domain name registrations (“Renewal Pricing”). For the purposes of determining Renewal Pricing, the price for each domain registration renewal must be identical to the price of all other domain name registration renewals in place at the time of such renewal, and such price must take into account universal application of any refunds, rebates, discounts, product tying or other programs in place at the time of renewal. The foregoing requirements of this Section 2.10(c) shall not apply for (i) purposes of determining Renewal Pricing if the registrar has provided Registry Operator with documentation that demonstrates that the applicable registrant expressly agreed in its registration agreement with registrar to higher Renewal Pricing at the time of the initial registration of the domain name following clear and conspicuous disclosure of such Renewal Pricing to such registrant, and (ii) discounted Renewal Pricing pursuant to a Qualified Marketing Program (as defined below). ”

I think this is a Donut answer: Mason Cole says
September 23, 2015 at 3:02 pm
Yes, the registry agreement allows for pricing changes, and appropriately so. Still, it’s unfortunate to see a situation like this one, which, to be fair, may have been due to an EPP implementation error or another cause. ICANN protects against surprising price increases in the RA by providing sufficient notice to customers — as Mike points out, in the event a registry does raise prices (according to section 2.10 of the registry agreement) there’s a six-month notice given to registrants along with the ability to renew the name for up to 10 years at the existing price.
Donuts has worked hard to fairly price names and as a result is seeing growth in registrations and use. Our goal is to encourage registration and use of names in our domains. As registries and registrars become increasingly experienced with the relatively new EPP pricing extension, we expect the incidence of these outlier situations to diminish even further.

George Kirikos says
September 23, 2015 at 3:20 pm
Hi Mason,
As I mentioned earlier, section 2.10(b) actually only gives the notice to the registrars and ICANN. Whether the registrar has an obligation to give notice to the registrant doesn’t seem to be expressly written down anywhere, even in the RAA.
Section 2.10(b)’s language is “With respect to renewal of domain name registrations, Registry Operator shall provide ICANN and each ICANN accredited registrar that has executed the registry-registrar agreement for the TLD advance written notice of any price ……”
[the word “registrant” doesn’t appear, with regards to the notice]
As for the 2013 RAA, I couldn’t find anything directly relating to a “notice requirement” for registrars to proactively notify registrants of pricing changes for renewals. The closest I could find is under “Registrants’ Benefits and Responsibilities” where it says:
“You are entitled to accurate and accessible information about:
….Your Registrar’s terms and conditions, including pricing information, applicable to domain name registrations;”
Of course, registrants aren’t parties to the RAA, and none of the above language is “proactive” about notifying registrants about a pricing change. Registrars could simply change the price unilaterally, but make it “accurate and accessible”, but it’s up to the registrant to monitor and find out for themselves that it has changed.

Michael Berkens says
September 25, 2015 at 6:39 am
Amazing enough I got another list of domain names with premium prices that were not enforced the 1st year
These are today Minds + Machines domain names that I will not be renewing and my annual cost to renew:
bottled.beer $1100
filly.horse $1100
yearling.horse $295
saddles.horse $295
I am going to keep pro.rodeo for $125

this last message gives me the idea that domain names can change to premium and once premium no law protects from price increases of 500%.

Ok not for the normal domain names as those need to follow the market.
But please tell me what law protects me that some domain names do not turn from normal to premium names? As I see some domain names now being premium that where not premium before.
So I come to the beginning, only my registrar can protect me by passing over the notice "a 6 month notice and give them the opportunity to renew the domain at the current rate for the remainder of the 10 year term"

If that passing over the notice only is available with a premium service @Joe Styler , then please tell me what is the name of that service and I buy it.
As that is what I called before "paying for an insurance" to be notified.
Not for a small price hike of the whole domain suffix as those 20$ doesn't make the difference and not worth buying 10 year in advance.
But a hike of 69$ to 499$ is worth of buying 10 years in advance at 69$.
yes I know now it was an error but I am not convinced that it is not possible.

This whole long threat could just be so short if a registry steps up and declares that they can not change the renewal price of a domain name on individual level with a % higher as the whole domain suffix.

I could not passes links here before without uploading an avatar.

 

[Joe Styler]

I really can't answer that question about Mike Berkens and Hexonet. I don't work for that company and am unsure how that can happen which is why at the beginning I pointed you to speak with someone else about that. You could also try contacting Minds and Machines who made the increase. It seems from Mike's article that they did do some kind of alert to Hexonet, what it was I am not sure. There can be any number of possibilities. I can only speak to what I know which is the names you brought up are not able to be raised one at a time. Both companies you have names with that you mentioned here are publicly traded and would likely also make those price raises known to investors before they happened. Both of those companies have not raised prices to my knowledge on any domains.

 

[AuctionBio]

simple is to stick with top level domain, and sell others

 

[djum]

This story will affect the image of new TLDs.

Technically they can do this type of price change, but who will want to do business with them?

Only newcomers, who know little about domaining.

Save yourself a dollar, stay away from new zones.

 

[dommmain]

So this still is an unsure subject. Still no clear answers in fact.
I invested a lot in .xyz and .top domains, but this gives me the creeps.
A lot of people here invested a lot in .xyz and .top domains, are they not affraid for this phenomenon?
Being happy you just caught your super domain names, not being premium. But in fact you don't know anything about its future renewal price?
Nobody appears to know lol. This is crazy.
Is this topic dead?

 

[Dave_Z]

So this still is an unsure subject. Still no clear answers in fact.
I invested a lot in .xyz and .top domains, but this gives me the creeps.
A lot of people here invested a lot in .xyz and .top domains, are they not affraid for this phenomenon?
Being happy you just caught your super domain names, not being premium. But in fact you don't know anything about its future renewal price?
Nobody appears to know lol. This is crazy.
Is this topic dead?

Depends perhaps what answers anybody wants.

As Joe explained, Go Daddy notifies its customers whenever any price change will occur on whatever date. Those price changes depend on the Registry making them in the first place, though. If history is any indication, however, the Registry will notify its registrars of any price change---which the registrars will notify their customers in turn.

None of these will happen all of a sudden like, say, the day after the decision to change price.

As for any Registry or registrar setting up some automated system to notify whoever of any price change, few to none of them have to do that when: a) they will notify their customers of any upcoming change, and b) they (may not) enact any change some time after a) depending on feedback from whoever. Things can change, after all.

 

[dommmain]

Depends perhaps what answers anybody wants.

- I just wanna know 1 thing:
If a 'normal' domain name, say that you have regged for 10 dollars/year can suddenly (while I hold the domain!) change it's renewal price to e.g. 5k, just because the name is so damn good, 'they' found out after a few years and make it premium.
I'm not talking about taxes that go higher or a 10% raise (who gives a shit).
I'm talking about this transformation from non-premium to premium while being hold by someone who invested in it (this is something else).
This would be pure theft.
- Why would this only occur for new ltds? Not with .com, .net, .org?
- CAN they only do this in theory, or are there many known domains for which this has happened? The .villa thing seemed to be a mistake ...
- So e.g. .xyz extension suddenly determines, wow, sportcars.xyz is pretty popular, let's rip the current holder off and make it a 55k domain!!