discuss Deplorable Domains?

[ThatNameGuy]

If just 1-2% of a domain portfolio sells annually, why do the remaining domains NOT sell? Are they just deplorable domains, or are there other reasons? I have my own suspicions, but I would like to hear from some of the so called professionals in the business. Thanks,

 

[Ategy]

Where to begin with this?

First of all .. I'm not sure who you're expecting to reply here?

... but I would like to hear from some of the so called professionals in the business.

While 2019 is definitely going to be a profitable one for me in the industry, I'm not sure I'd consider myself a pro just yet. On the other hand .. if you're going to belittle the actual pros by implying that the ones here who think they are, actually aren't, by calling them "so called" then effectively that doesn't really leave anyone!

Add to that the number of people (myself included) who have taken the time to personally help you who you then turned around and insulted or made false accusations of being on some kind of personal vendetta against you.

If just 1-2% of a domain portfolio sells annually, why do the remaining domains NOT sell? Are they just deplorable domains, or are there other reasons?

All that said .. I'm going to answer here for the sake of others so that they don't get confused by your obvious confusion.

First of all .. the 1%-2% annual sell-through of a portfolio is a complete guesstimate as an average.

The theory behind it says that on average a good domain portfolio with maximum visibility will passively (via incoming) sell 1-2% of it's inventory in any given year if priced optimally.

Which means that that number can go up if a domainer lowers their prices. Many domainers sell far more than 2% a year.

That number can also go up if outbound is done.

However .. that in no way means the other 98-99% are junk .. it just means that there are a much larger number of domains being held by domainers than there is demand for aftermarket domains. Effectively there are only so many new companies/products a year .. so even if you have tons of great domains, there aren't enough new businesses to buy them.


MOST IMPORTANTLY: The 1-2% is in theory an industry average based on good sellable domains. Much of the domains you have posted here at NamePros are not good domains (with a couple of exceptions IIRC), and as such have closer to 0% of selling than 1 or 2%!

Domainers should NEVER expect that if they buy 100 random domains that they will then sell 1 or 2 a year. EVERY DOMAIN IS UNIQUE and as such has it's own unique chances of selling. Trends (market demand), quality and pricing are some of many influencing factors.

At the end of the day it says that domaining is by far mostly luck on the individual domain level (98-99% luck based on the 1-2% guestimate) .. but like a casino .. if you have a good average quality of domains, then your sell-through average will increasingly STABILISE as the number of domains you hold goes up.

 

[hawkeye]

Bulloney you’ve been here almost 2 years, are still in ‘restricted’ mode, still bragging you can pick names better than anybody, and still haven’t sold ‘one’ domain name! What you can do though is brag about how superior you are to all here, belittle others here that they can’t match your ‘skills’ (whatever they are). Maybe give your artificial chest pounding a rest and actually prove you can do ‘something’ (besides huff and blow). Because up to now you have done absolutely ‘nothing’ domain wise but huff and blow and fill the coiffeurs of domain registers! God there are newer members than you here who have sold more domains than you ever will. And you can reframe from your blowhart retort to me, because it’ll be nothing more than your usual nonsensical bragging and ‘nothing’ about any domain successes you’ve had in this industry because you don’t/won’t have any!

 

[Ategy]

I've been involved in many different businesses since I started my first business in 1968 a little over 50 years ago, and I've started, operated and yes NAMED over 20 businesses since
...
Ategy, I reg'd three new names today all of which I'd be proud to use for a business I started. Did they all pass the "radio" test? No, one did but the other two didn't.

What were they? I hope the one in question was HotAir.com! lol

Seriously .. maybe one day it will get through to you that naming an existing or even new business is not at all the same thing as domaining. For most traditional companies and likely the types of companies you're talking about, the success or failure had little or nothing to do with the company name.

That's your downfall in being a domainer is that you're trying to come up with business concepts to justify the domains you're buying .. when it should be the other way around if you want to be a domainer.

There isn't anything wrong with coming up with business concepts and trying to find partners or investors .. but THAT IS NOT DOMAINING! Yes it even could be more profitable .. BUT IT IS NOT DOMAINING! It could be more complex and require particular and specific business skills/experience .. BUT THAT IS NOT DOMAINING!

By continuously trying to pass off these grandiose concepts where you invent business ideas for the domains you've acquired you are giving the wrong idea to new domainers. Seriously .. what you are doing is business development and marketing .. IT IS NOT DOMAINING! Your threads and discussions DO NOT BELONG in discussions focused on DOMAINS!

There most certainly is money to be made in what you're trying to do (*IF* you do it right and have the right connections and/or deep pockets) .. but just to be clear ...

IT IS NOT DOMAINING !!!


.

Many sell far more than 2% a year??? Ategy...i bolded "many" and "far" because i simply don't believe you If you want any credibility with me or any of the other NP members I think an explanation is in order.....what do you say?

Sigh .. I can't believe I really need to explain this! If you actually spent a bit of time studying what successful domainers are doing and analyse the math it really isn't far fetched. I'm not saying anything close to the majority of domainers are .. but there certainly are quite a few. In particularly those who buy more expensive domains, those whose price their domains lower, and those who invest time in outbound .. oh yeah .. and those who buy something known as good domains that existing end-users would actually be interested in!

I'm still relatively new to this industry, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand major flaws in this industry.

lol .. I think that's one thing most of us can actually agree on. You aren't saying anything new here. There's tons wrong with the domain industry on so many levels. Some of those things definitely hurt us .. while other things benefit us.

Market inefficiencies are precisely how I'm making money with domains .. I'm buying good domains below even wholesale prices .. which gives me a lot of manoeuvrability and flexibility. More importantly it lets me get away with being inefficient and lazy with my portfolio myself because of things I need to take care of in my non-domain world.

Now as for Verisigns comments that domainers in general are "Hoarders and Scalpers" and "Flipping domain names or warehousing them to create scarcity adds nothing to the industry and merely allows those engaged in this questionable practice to enrich themselves at the expense of consumers and businesses." has everything to do with why 98% of domains remain unsold every year?

I would try to reply to this if it actually made sense! "Flipping domain names" and warehousing" them are completely opposite things! I don't know of anyone who is warehousing domains (with the possible exception of liquid domain speculators, but most domainers don't deal in 3L/4N .com's). Even more importantly .. those who do quick flipping of domains are actually creating more liquidity and less scarcity! lol

Honestly .. it's no grand conspiracy .. there are millions of domains held by domainers .. at the end of the day there are simply a limited number of end-users willing to pay aftermarkets prices from which to buy all those millions of domains! Many are very good. Heck .. I'm even willing to admit you likely have a few that would fall into the 1-2% sales probability.

But just because there aren't enough businesses to buy 100% of inventory in no way means anything is wrong at all. As long as your acquisition model fits with your sell-through rate then you have a profitable business. Because I personally dig deep into the expiration auctions lists each night for my daily lists that I share at NameCult, I'm able to find and buy good domains for cheap .. so I don't need to sell anything close to 2% a year to make a profit. While at the same time others who buy more expensive domains would actually lose money if they only sold 2% of their inventory.

As for my naming ability, I'll match my skills to yours any day of the week.

Although I seriously doubt you'd beat me .. that's completely besides the point .. it just shows how lost you are .. because again ... NAMING and DOMAINING are two somewhat related but still very different things!

But if you want to play that game .. then let's see your portfolio .. of the 19 domains you have at Domain Gourmet (a domain in itself that's not bad at all), only 2 of them are half-decent .. and only 1 I would have considered acquiring even at closeout (I won't list them here as I will still respect that some people do not want their domains listed publicly at NamePros without permission for indexing reasons).

More importantly .. how many end-user DOMAIN sales have you made in the last year? Effectively how many 4-figure DOMAIN sales at 10x or more of your acquisition?

I'm still here because I didn't listen to the so called pros for they surely did their best to discredit me and run me off.

I think I speak for the majority of people here in saying that until you started personally attacking people and throwing around ridiculous accusations, nobody cared about you either way. In all honesty .. I personally still don't care about you personally. I don't mean that in a bad way .. I'm just saying that I'm not writing all these things to prove you wrong personally and make you look the fool .. I'm writing what I'm writing because I simply strongly disagree with the content of what you write and strongly feel the need to correct it. In fact if you go back to shortly after you joined and look in your private messages, you'll see that I took significant amounts of my personal time to try to help you personally .. with not only absolutely zero malice or bad intent .. but with the genuine wish to help you while asking for absolutely nothing in return. Only to a few months later you go make public accusations and essentially stab me in the back!

Most of the time what you write is wrong and even sometimes borderline misleading/harmful to newcomers who would chance upon your misguided rantings and claims and more importantly .. these topics you keep starting in the guise of a discussion where you ultimately have some other agenda if not simply self-promotion (admittedly this one isn't nearly as bad as some previous ones) .. likely I'm thinking in the hopes of making a name for yourself to better get "investors" for your business "concepts".

 

[bmugford]

...

 

[hawkeye]

^ Excellent points well said and intelligently laid out explanations of common domaining sense and the differences of buying names to sell for profit as opposed to just 'naming' a business. Too bad it'll all be for naught, as it'll just fly over it's intended target to be retorted with more of the same braggadocios rants and put downs this was addressing.

Bottom line here:
It's senseless and futile to try and reason with an unreasonable man.

(...and the band played on.)

 

[NYJimbo]

Joining a forum and pretending you are a genius, when EVERYONE knows you are not AND attacking anyone who questions you, is not going to help you make friends and gain knowledge in that forum.

We've seen these threads before. Most of them go with no responses, because the OP is not seriously trying to learn, rather they are just trying to give themselves an ego boost and brag about things that nobody cares about.

Whatever, moving on....

 

[frank-germany]

What were they? I hope the one in question was HotAir.com! lol

Seriously .. maybe one day it will get through to you that naming an existing or even new business is not at all the same thing as domaining. For most traditional companies and likely the types of companies you're talking about, the success or failure had little or nothing to do with the company name.

That's your downfall in being a domainer is that you're trying to come up with business concepts to justify the domains you're buying .. when it should be the other way around if you want to be a domainer.

There isn't anything wrong with coming up with business concepts and trying to find partners or investors .. but THAT IS NOT DOMAINING! Yes it even could be more profitable .. BUT IT IS NOT DOMAINING! It could be more complex and require particular and specific business skills/experience .. BUT THAT IS NOT DOMAINING!

By continuously trying to pass off these grandiose concepts where you invent business ideas for the domains you've acquired you are giving the wrong idea to new domainers. Seriously .. what you are doing is business development and marketing .. IT IS NOT DOMAINING! Your threads and discussions DO NOT BELONG in discussions focused on DOMAINS!

There most certainly is money to be made in what you're trying to do (*IF* you do it right and have the right connections and/or deep pockets) .. but just to be clear ...

IT IS NOT DOMAINING !!!


.


Sigh .. I can't believe I really need to explain this! If you actually spent a bit of time studying what successful domainers are doing and analyse the math it really isn't far fetched. I'm not saying anything close to the majority of domainers are .. but there certainly are quite a few. In particularly those who buy more expensive domains, those whose price their domains lower, and those who invest time in outbound .. oh yeah .. and those who buy something known as good domains that existing end-users would actually be interested in!




lol .. I think that's one thing most of us can actually agree on. You aren't saying anything new here. There's tons wrong with the domain industry on so many levels. Some of those things definitely hurt us .. while other things benefit us.

Market inefficiencies are precisely how I'm making money with domains .. I'm buying good domains below even wholesale prices .. which gives me a lot of manoeuvrability and flexibility. More importantly it lets me get away with being inefficient and lazy with my portfolio myself because of things I need to take care of in my non-domain world.




I would try to reply to this if it actually made sense! "Flipping domain names" and warehousing" them are completely opposite things! I don't know of anyone who is warehousing domains (with the possible exception of liquid domain speculators, but most domainers don't deal in 3L/4N .com's). Even more importantly .. those who do quick flipping of domains are actually creating more liquidity and less scarcity! lol

Honestly .. it's no grand conspiracy .. there are millions of domains held by domainers .. at the end of the day there are simply a limited number of end-users willing to pay aftermarkets prices from which to buy all those millions of domains! Many are very good. Heck .. I'm even willing to admit you likely have a few that would fall into the 1-2% sales probability.

But just because there aren't enough businesses to buy 100% of inventory in no way means anything is wrong at all. As long as your acquisition model fits with your sell-through rate then you have a profitable business. Because I personally dig deep into the expiration auctions lists each night for my daily lists that I share at NameCult, I'm able to find and buy good domains for cheap .. so I don't need to sell anything close to 2% a year to make a profit. While at the same time others who buy more expensive domains would actually lose money if they only sold 2% of their inventory.




Although I seriously doubt you'd beat me .. that's completely besides the point .. it just shows how lost you are .. because again ... NAMING and DOMAINING are two somewhat related but still very different things!

But if you want to play that game .. then let's see your portfolio .. of the 19 domains you have at Domain Gourmet (a domain in itself that's not bad at all), only 2 of them are half-decent .. and only 1 I would have considered acquiring even at closeout (I won't list them here as I will still respect that some people do not want their domains listed publicly at NamePros without permission for indexing reasons).

More importantly .. how many end-user DOMAIN sales have you made in the last year? Effectively how many 4-figure DOMAIN sales at 10x or more of your acquisition?




I think I speak for the majority of people here in saying that until you started personally attacking people and throwing around ridiculous accusations, nobody cared about you either way. In all honesty .. I personally still don't care about you personally. I don't mean that in a bad way .. I'm just saying that I'm not writing all these things to prove you wrong personally and make you look the fool .. I'm writing what I'm writing because I simply strongly disagree with the content of what you write and strongly feel the need to correct it. In fact if you go back to shortly after you joined and look in your private messages, you'll see that I took significant amounts of my personal time to try to help you personally .. with not only absolutely zero malice or bad intent .. but with the genuine wish to help you while asking for absolutely nothing in return. Only to a few months later you go make public accusations and essentially stab me in the back!

Most of the time what you write is wrong and even sometimes borderline misleading/harmful to newcomers who would chance upon your misguided rantings and claims and more importantly .. these topics you keep starting in the guise of a discussion where you ultimately have some other agenda if not simply self-promotion (admittedly this one isn't nearly as bad as some previous ones) .. likely I'm thinking in the hopes of making a name for yourself to better get "investors" for your business "concepts".

I have no idea what @ThatNameGuy said
as I ignore him

thank you for your long post
that reminds me of something

 

[Ategy]

Ateguy, i'm sure you haven't a clue why I hand reg'd CheesecakeRealty similar to why you don't have a clue as to why; ElephantInsurance or even a name like Amazon. And you probably haven't a clue as to why I hand reg'd names like SavorGreen.org, SavortheGrape or SavorSports, but then again I wouldn't expect you to.

I notice you conveniently skipped over my questions about your sales over the last year? lol

The great thing about domaining is that not everyone in the industry needs to understand what others are doing .. as long as sooner than later you start making sales and a profit.

In all honesty .. I haven't looked at your portfolio in a long time. But I'll be the first to say that it seems like there has been some improvement in quality based on the small number of domains I've seen you share. But it's easy to move up from the hundreds of "Simpli___" domains that you registered. And to be clear .. "improvement" doesn't necessarily equate to good.

BTW .. If you start selling Cheesecake houses at CheesecakeRealty.com .. then I take everything back and I'm a buyer! ElephantInsurance.com isn't a bad name. I'm pretty sure you didn't register Amazon.com!

I'm sure you didn't understand why I've registered some of the domain that I have registered .. but it doesn't matter .. I'm selling the domains I've registered .. I'm making a profit.

Again though .. how many 4-figure (at least 10x over acquisition cost) end user DOMAIN sales have you made in the last year?

I didn't attack anyone until I was first personally attacked and falsely accused of being a cyber squatter.

Ummm .. when did I ever personally attack you before you accused me and a few others of being on some personal vendetta against you? I don't recall ever calling you a cyber-squatter .. but honestly as I said above .. I don't usually make things personal here (so it's not impossible). I most definitely have told several people they were infringing on trademarks and even in extreme cases using the term cyber-squatter .. but if I've ever done so it's also after giving detailed helpful explanations as to why.

And btw Ategy, i think the site we're posting on is called NamePros and not DomainingPros ala your comment; "NAMING and DOMAINING are two somewhat related but still very different things!"

I can't believe I actually need to say this to you .. particularly as you claim to be an expert in naming and branding ... lol .. but the Name in NamePros is short for Domain Names ... maybe you also missed slogan and the 2nd line on every single NP page ...

"Buy, Sell, Discuss DOMAIN Names"

.

You certainly remember me telling you I'm not a "domainer", but rather a business guy, a name guy and a marketing guy.

What I'm about to say I'm not saying in a mean way .. but seriously .. I think you would be better off in a business or marketing related forum. The ideas you bring up here and completely out of context when it comes to domains. It is to the detriment of this community and particularly to new domainers.

Of the few ideas I've seen you share I really think you are more concept dreamer than than realist .. but that's not the end of the world at all. People are allowed to be dreamers .. we simply ask that you do it and share it in more appropriate and relevant venues.

There are always people with money looking to invest in concepts .. with your persistence you're bound to find investors regardless if your ideas are good or not (what happened to the concept where you got 2 guys to put in $5k each?). But your (not so) subtle "business concept" self-promoting in what should be domain discussions are not appreciated in the domain specific sections of (Domain)NamePros!

Notably .. You continued pushing and insistence that your concept domains are great is damaging and misleading to new domainers. Most such domains in question are worthless and garbage without new and external investment in the concept/business.

How many Simpli___ domains did you buy again ???

If you want to discuss your marketing ideas, do not put them in the context of your domain names .. do not put them in the domain related sections of this forum (I'm not referring to this topic specifically). Domains are usually secondary in these contexts .. and if anything .. most of the domains you've chosen for them are still not good!

Most importantly .. stop starting topics seemingly related to domains with the ulterior motives of discussing your marketing ideas and concepts.

 

[Brands.International]

This is seriously entertaining discussion, I made my popcorn, and looking for more

 

[Internet.Domains]

"To each their own."

How boring would life be if we took the same path?

Hopefully everyone finds success on their own path. Wisdom comes from not criticizing other paths, but accepting your own path.

 

[Ategy]

My sincere apologies to @ThatDomainGuy .. I obviously meant @ThatNameGuy (formerly Baloney)

Kinda proves my point about not really being any difference between NameCult and DomainCult when the context of "Name" at domain name related venues is meant to be short for "Domain Name"

Anyhow .. sorry @ThatDomainGuy for the confusion!

 

[Ategy]

Domainers only sell ~1-2% of domains on average a year simply because of the relatively fixed number of new businesses looking for domains each year versus the number of domains being held by domainers

First, you give absolutely zero evidence or provide any sources to back up this statement;

I have no idea what to say here .. I'm completely speechless. Do you really need me to give you links about the relative stability of global economic growth? It's inconceivable that anyone be so truly ignorant on the subject .. but even so .. just google "Global Economic Growth" .. there are literally 477 MILLION results.

https://ycharts.com/indicators/world_gdp_growth
Dec. 31, 2017 3.15%
Dec. 31, 2016 2.59%
Dec. 31, 2015 2.86%
Dec. 31, 2014 2.84%
Dec. 31, 2013 2.65%
Dec. 31, 2012 2.52%
Dec. 31, 2011 3.15%
Dec. 31, 2010 4.36%
Dec. 31, 2009 -1.74%
Dec. 31, 2008 1.80%
Dec. 31, 2007 4.18%
Dec. 31, 2006 4.28%
Dec. 31, 2005 3.82%
Dec. 31, 2004 4.37%
Dec. 31, 2003 2.90%
Dec. 31, 2002 2.20%
Dec. 31, 2001 1.92%
Dec. 31, 2000 4.39%
Dec. 31, 1999 3.26%
Dec. 31, 1998 2.54%
Dec. 31, 1997 3.70%
Dec. 31, 1996 3.39%
Dec. 31, 1995 3.04%
Dec. 31, 1994 3.01%

I can't be bothered to pull out number of new businesses per year, because quite frankly if you still don't understand that there is a direct correlation to economic growth then you will never understand anything related to math or economics.

Seriously .. growth in number of domains sold per year is more or less directly related to the growth of the economy! The other very important factor to consider is that there is also still a shift of old companies making the move to the digital world, so that has an amplifying effect on domain sales that will likely have a stable but diminishing effect for many more years to come.

In terms of major influences of domain sales that isn't also related to the economy, the only thing I can think of is Facebook .. as there was likely a dampening effect of domain growth in the early years of Facebook as many companies simply replied on FB for their online presence. The true effect of that is likely lost in the 2008+ financial crisis.

If for some reason Facebook or Amazon closed down, then that in turn could cause growth in domain sales as many retailers rush to get their own websites.

Obviously political influence can have an effect as well .. particularly in China where changes in government policy has led to noticeably changing trends in domain registration numbers.

At some point some ICANN decision could also certainly effect the number of domains being sold. But depending on the policy change, that would effect more new registrations and less directly aftermarket sales.

I'm honestly not sure what effect the ngTLD's had on domains, but there likely was a short term spike as at least some businesses tries to secure their defensive registrations. While new businesses that got ngTLD's likely would have otherwise bought an existing oldTLD .. so that might have had a short term dampening effect on the aftermarket as the best ngTLDs were bought (instead of lower-tier .com, other ccTLDs and .net). Now many domainers own ngTLD's .. so effectively ngTLD don't really have such a pronounced affect on the aftermarket because they are part of the aftermarket now.

Also .. the Chinese CHIP craze influenced the market as well .. but those are mostly liquid domains that most domainers do not trade in .. and actually represent a very tiny portion of the traditional end-user market .. so even if it was a big deal .. it's effect on the average "~2%" of average domainers was actually negligible.

When it comes to aftermarket domains (the famous ~2% +/- ?%), I think we can all agree that the demand is going to also be relatively related to overall domain growth.

Again .. there could be changes in the delta between overall new domain sales and aftermarket sales. Perhaps if .com ever saw a significant renewal price jump then more people would look at aftermarket domains.

A significant portion of unsold domains is simply due to poor quality domains as well as overpriced domains. Maybe not as bad as potential hand registrations, but remember that in order to have a profitable portfolio a domainer needs to have a significant markup on their domains. Yet at the end of the day, a new business start-up would have a much stronger likelihood of getting a bad hand reg at $15, than an only slightly better improvement at $1000.

Another factor which I already mentioned above is for more awareness to be brought to domains .. but by far the biggest players in the industry tend to focus their marketing dollars on new registrations. That being said .. GoDaddy ads about (hand-reg) domains most certainly would have a secondary effect of bringing more awareness to the industry in general. A certain number of people who go to GoDaddy and can't find any decent hand reg's will take the next step to the aftermarket.

I suggest you go back and read Josytal post followed by internet.domains post. Then think about what they said for a while Ategy.

Again you simply prove your complete ignorance and lack of understanding on what you're talking about.

Before even beginning, what both are talking about are micro level .. having to do with individual (single domainers/portfolios) as opposed to the macro level that we have been discussing (industry-wide factors).

Demand and supply. Just like in any other industry, supply by far outweighs demand.

@ThatNameGuy .. This has actually been MY point the entire time .. lol. Go back and you'll see I talked about this in depth. Maybe it's YOU who should be reflecting on it as you've been saying that somehow we can magically overcome the supply/demand factor of the entire domain industry ... we've all been waiting for you to actually tell us what you're going to do with your magic wand .. but instead all you do is reply with nonsense and gibberish .. and backtracking to change your initial arguments and stance.

And by the way, Pareto principle states clearly:
80% of the outcome of any activity comes from 20% of the total efforts.
So if you apply the principle to the best of domain portfolio, at any given time the maximum you can sell should be 20% of your portfolio.
So IMO for domaining 20% should be optimal.

@ThatNameGuy .. If this is what you're talking about, then unfortunately there is absolutely no direct correlation of 20% in one being 20% in another. What it would theoretically say is that 80% of his sales comes from 20% of his efforts. Which means that 6.4% of the 8% of his sell-through would come from 20% of his time spent on domaining (8% x 80% = 6.4%). So again .. your asking me to look again only goes to prove how little comprehension you have on domaining, math and basic logic.
(Note that I say "would theoretically say is that 80% .." because I personally don't even believe in that. Domaining is a a little more complex than that, as it involved multiple factors and skills from acquisition through to purchase. Someone could put in 5x more effort than someone else .. but if they don't have domaining skills and knowledge, then not only would they not have 5x better results, but it would likely be 5++x worse. The 20/80 principle is more of a stand-alone principle based on specific individuals and their own relative effort .. because the quality of the 20% effort in person A can vary significantly from the 20% in person B based on wisdom, intelligence and experience)

@Internet.Domains talks about everyone taking their own path ... which again .. is something I SPECIFICALLY talked about in that most certainly individual domainers can make changes to improve their sell-through significantly ... and btw .. it was YOU (@ThatNameGuy) who were the one who questioned any domainers ability to exceed even 2% ..

Many sell far more than 2% a year??? Ategy...i bolded "many" and "far" because i simply don't believe you

It boggles my mind how quickly you are to completely change the scope of a discussion simply to avoid saying you were wrong. Instead you try to twist things around and subtly change your point of view to not make your original statements seem so completely wrong and ridiculous!

Just to be clear .. when I said domainers sell over 2% you called me a liar ("i simply don't believe you").. but when @Josytal says he sells 8%, not only do you not question his claim, but you somehow try to turn things around and make it look like it's me who is wrong !?!? .. it boggles my mind at how stupid you think NamePros so-called members are! lol

 

[bmugford]

Unlike yourself Richard, I'm just focused on buying and selling domains (which I do!), while you are focused on buying (and buying) domains that make no sense (not selling 'one'), bragging on what you're going to do , belittling everyone here on how much better you are at everything than anybody here, while showing and having absolutely 'no' results at anything domain related. Like with everyone else here richard, I couldn't care less what you think, say or have an opinion of. You've proved absolutely nothing here other than you can brag and insult, just like the 'tangerine turd' we unfortunately have to put with currently. Pretty sad that is how a 70 year old gets his jollies, but...you both do!

You know it is pretty ironic that someone whose motto is "Make Something Happen" just talks endlessly about making something happening. Meanwhile many of the people he dismisses actually buy and sell domains daily, and have been doing it with success for years.

Also, ironic is the fact that Bulloney calls other domain investors "hoarders" when he owns 1,500+ domains himself. If anything that is more of a hoarder than people who actually make sales.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

I am getting sick of this nonsense from Mr. Bulloney. He likes to throw out endless insults then whines when you respond. If you don't want responses, quit talking down to others.

Just a heads up I just received this unsolicited email from Mr. Bulloney -

Brad...i just sent the following message to Eric Lyon at NamePros. I guess
you haven't gotten the message, but be a gentlemen and *LEAVE ME THE FUCK
ALONE!!!*

Eric,

So posters, Ategy, Hawkeye and bmugford can come on a thread that I started
and personally attack me, and I can't defend myself???? They're only here
to discredit anything and everything I say. I start a *legitimate* thread
about why just 1-2% of domains are sold annually and state my reasons and
these members attack me????
Why is that Eric? Other than maybe saying "I don't believe you", or "that's
BS", and then back it up is all I've done. You know and I know this
industry is riddled with problems, and in most cases I'm merely pointing it
out.

Is NamePros going to continue to allow them to attack me??? Please advise.
Thank you.

I'm copying each of these individuals personally with this complaint. Thanks

This email follows other BS whining in the past, as well as many emails to me. I have specifically asked him to not email me multiple times in the past which he refused.

Mr. Bulloney seems to think this is his own private forum where people can't respond to insults and other bullshit. The guy has been suspended 5 times and is still restricted.

He says things just to troll and annoy people like "but I would like to hear from some of the so called professionals in the business" then also makes personal comments on others while the same time saying he is attacked.

I am done dealing with this nonsense.

Brad

 

[Ategy]

Domainers only sell ~1-2% of domains on average a year simply because of the relatively fixed number of new businesses looking for domains each year versus the number of domains being held by domainers.

It's pretty straighforward math despite not knowing the precise numbers

Basically there are 330 million domains in existance.
Of which there are XX million held by domainers.

Then there are +XX million new businesses/products requiring domains each year
Also factoring in -XX million businesses/products folding and letting their domains expire
Giving a net of +X million domains required per year

Most of those X millions will be hand registrations.

While leaves maybe 500,000 end-user aftermarket sales ($x,xxx+)?
(complete guess, I honestly don't know .. i'm simply putting numbers for the sake of showing the formula)

If all domainers and aftermarket marketplaces combined hold 25 million domains, then that would be 2%.

My numbers are likely way off as I'm completely guesstimating to get to 2% .. but it gives you an idea of the overall formula. The fact is that 2% number could be off by a significant number.

While the X's are not precisely known, the overall numbers are relatively stable with obvious growth year over year as the world continues to get online.

Most definitely ICANN and Verisign could be doing things to bring more awareness and accessibility to stimulate growth. But at the end of the day we're talking a difference of max 5%. Definitely significant .. but negligible on the 2%/98% scale, as even a strong global domain marketing campaign that impacts the market a massive 5% would increase the 2% to 2.1% ... and that 2% is a complete guesstimate. The factor of error between 1%-2% is 100%, which totally overshadows the 5% in question. And frankly that "2%" could be even far less than 1% giving an even bigger margin of error.

But whether Verisign or anyone else call us cybersquatters or hoarders has zero relevance on the global demand for domains.

Even then the number of domains sold has nothing to do with profit or success. Some domainers sell domains at 100x, others at 10x, some at 2x, and some often sell at a loss. Then those sales need to be countered by costs (renewals/acquisitions). Which is why this whole discussion really doesn't change much for individuals.

@ThatDomainGuy is talking like ~98% of domains not getting sold each year is something negative ... when in fact it's completely natural. It's simply a market fact. It has extremely little to do with anything internal within the domain industry, and is simply a result of the progression of the global economy getting on the Internet.

It's actually a complete lack of understanding of where the demand for domains comes from that would make anyone think the number of domains purchased each year could really be influenced by something so insignificant as the domain industry compared to the driving engine of the $80 TRILLION global economy.


Bottom line is:

1- Domainers ironically have virtually zero influence on the actual demand for domains.

2- But all that is completely irrelevant and meaningless because each domainer has their own system and unique portfolios. So whether their overall relative sell-through of their portfolio is 1%, 2%, 5% or 10+% it really does matter at all. What does matter, is that whatever their number, that it works with their acquisition/costs vs revenue model.

A personally appropriate sell-through percentage can vary wildly based on average acquisition price vs average sales price. If you buy very low and sell at 100x, then you don't ever need anything close to 2% to be profitable. But if you sell at 5x then you need significantly higher than 2% annual sell-through to even start to make a profit.


Whatever the magic number (let's assume 2%), whether the remaining 98% are amazing or "deplorable" really doesn't come into play.

However where @ThatDomainGuy's original statement shows to be decisively wrong, is that I think it's fairly safe to say that many domains found within the 98% in previous years most certainly do sell in future years. It's not like domainers sell 2%, then the next year only sell a newly acquired 2%, while the same 98% continue to never sell year after year.

Fact is most of the domains that exist are horrible. Be they in use by end-users or held by domainers. There is no major alarming excess of "deplorable domains" held by domainers vs the deplorable domains hand registered by new end-users.


And that's my 2 cents on the ~2%!

 

[ThatNameGuy]

@ThatNameGuy I remember you from last year.
You talked about some golf tournament where you were going to advertise your .golf names I believe.
I took you seriously then despite all the winds that were blowing against you, I like innovative people but I haven't heard anything from you since.
How did that event go down?

Yes, it was the Myrtle Beach World Amateur that was attended by almost 3,000 golfers from around the world. Donuts, the registry for .Golf was to co-host the both with me, but they cancelled. About that time Paul Stahura, CEO left the company and everything was put on hold. I have even more reason now to attend a USGA sponsored golf event now that I've come up with a unique idea how to attract more people/players to the game. My next trade show venture will be to have a booth at realty/builders convention.sometime late this fall....maybe November.

And you're right, it is Bulloney and not Baloney. I did attend Namescon in Vegas in late January, and met a lot of industry leaders, but didn't learn much new that I didn't already know. That's it Windoms....stay cool, and enjoy life.

 

[hawkeye]

Richard, you said -

another crappy domain, but i did it for you

And I simply replied -

uh, well please...don't do it for me!

Yet being you, you have to retort with insults and put downs.

And obviously I don't have decent domains by your standards, as you seem to know better than anyone here how to pick names, as you've told so us so many times. Unlike yourself Richard, I'm just focused on buying and selling domains (which I do!), while you are focused on buying (and buying) domains that make no sense (not selling 'one'), bragging on what you're going to do , belittling everyone here on how much better you are at everything than anybody here, while showing and having absolutely 'no' results at anything domain related. Like with everyone else here richard, I couldn't care less what you think, say or have an opinion of. You've proved absolutely nothing here other than you can brag and insult, just like the 'tangerine turd' we unfortunately have to put with currently. Pretty sad that is how a 70 year old gets his jollies, but...you both do!

 

[hawkeye]

I got it too. Why someone who has been 'Restricted' for over 60+% of the time he's been a member here and is allowed to constantly continue posting insults, belittlement's, and braggadocios claims that he's better than anyone else here is beyond perplexing to say the least. Especially when he has not and does not contribute anything positive domain wise here. Management 'needs' to rectify this cancer one way or another. imo.

 

[Ategy]

Wow Ategy...you are one windy guy. I pose the question why 98% of registered domains remain unsold or aren't renewed annually, and this is all you can come up with???

No .. you posed your ridiculously obvious question (which I answered above) AND you also insulted other members of this community with one of your signature indirect snarky remarks:

the so called professionals in the business.

If you had just asked your extremely obvious question I simply would have answered or more likely ignored this post all together!

I noticed you've never commented on Verisigns analysis that domainers as a whole are typically "hoarders and squatters" Case in point, I just registered the name ArkBrands.com, and while it's not a NameGuy original, it's a decent name just the same.

I boggles my mind how much nonsense you spew out. Please tell me what Verisign calling domainers squatters and hoarders has to do with you registering ArkBrands? lol

You probably identify it as being crap, but I beg to differ. Do you know what an "Ark" is Ategy?, and I'm not talking in just a Biblical sense. I plan to start a portfolio of "Ark" domains starting with ArkWeather.com (registered continually for 11 years)....ever hear of AccuWeather Ategy?

Oh .. booohoohooo .. let's break out the violin and cry you a river. Seriously .. you do this ALL THE TIME .. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN OTHER PEOPLE'S MOUTHS! It's unprofessional and quite pathetic! You've done it multiple times with me and with others as well. You assume people will hate everything about you, possibly trying to get people's sympathy. And more importantly you try to make other people look unprofessional or bad by implying that they don't see what should be obvious. I've actually said on multiple occasions (including my post that you actually quoted directly above) that some of your domains aren't bad and that you might even have a few good ones .. yet here you go on continuing to play the victim when in fact the only reason I started all this was because YOU INSULTED THE COMMUNITY:

the so called professionals in the business.

I noticed your gig is called NameCult.com and not DomainCult.com. Was that on purpose, or weren't you able to buy DomainCult at Sedo?

This is exactly my point and a concept you just have the total lack of ability to grasp! I never even checked if DomainCult was available. My blog is effectively a B2B blog .. in fact I specifically DO NOT want potential end users to find my daily lists of domains on auction .. I only want it to be found by domainers. The only reason I started it was due to the technical limitations of the posts here at NamePros. I could call it MonkeyPoop and people would still come because it's the actual content they are going for. The specific domain in this instance has very little significance on the success or failure. People in the industry will find it just as easily whether it's called NameCult or DomainCult. I used that domain because I have several dozen domainer type names (most significantly better) and this was a lower tier one that I thought would be fun because most domainers are hooked on domains like some people are to cults. Aside from that I really didn't give it much thought .. because it really doesn't matter. Much like I'm assuming the "20 companies" you named up to 50+ years ago!

 

[Josytal]

If just 1-2% of a domain portfolio sells annually, why do the remaining domains NOT sell? Are they just deplorable domains, or are there other reasons? I have my own suspicions, but I would like to hear from some of the so called professionals in the business. Thanks,

Demand and supply. Just like in any other industry, supply by far outweighs demand.

And by the way, Pareto principle states clearly:
80% of the outcome of any activity comes from 20% of the total efforts.
So if you apply the principle to the best of domain portfolio, at any given time the maximum you can sell should be 20% of your portfolio.
So IMO for domaining 20% should be optimal.

I recorded 8% sell-through for last year, though not a professional by any standard.
So anyone with industry average of 1-2% means there is still a lot of room for improvement, a challenge, that is.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Demand and supply. Just like in any other industry, supply by far outweighs demand.

And by the way, if you apply the Pareto principle to the best of domain portfolio, at any given time the maximum you can sell should be 20% of your portfolio. Put simply, 80% of the outcome of any activity comes from 20% of the total efforts.
So IMO for domaining 20% should be optimal.

I recorded 8% turnover for last year, though not a professional by any standard.
So anyone with industry average of 1-2% means there is still a lot of room for improvement, a challenge, that is.

Thanks Josytal....i think we've conversed before, and i'm impressed. I just spent about 10 minutes perusing your site, and you're certainly not a typical domainer....great site btw. I've lived most of my personal and business life quoting and aspiring to the 80/20 rule. It's my opinion that if you're not a "hoarder or scalper", and you're a smart marketer, than a 20% sell through rate is attainable imho. Thanks again

 

[ThatNameGuy]

This is seriously entertaining discussion, I made my popcorn, and looking for more

Thanks for chiming in Marek......i've been a little slow to the game, but I'm learning and getting better every day. While I still believe in many of the nTLD extensions, my portfolio has flipped from an 80/20 ratio of nTLD's to .coms, to at 20/80 ratio. If I were a little younger I might be sitting at 50/50 about now like my realty/homes/builder portfolio. That's because i'm overweighted in .homes, however they're pretty damn good domains considering my knowledge of the industry.

Say hi to Prague for me

 

[ThatNameGuy]

"To each their own."

How boring would life be if we took the same path?

Hopefully everyone finds success on their own path. Wisdom comes from not criticizing other paths, but accepting your own path.

Thanks for that Internet.Domains. Having operated businesses in several different industries, I found both success and failure were all achieved differently. Much to the chagrin of my critics, I'm always looking for new paths. TQM (Total Quality Management) a business philosophy I subscribe to like SWOT, says, there's ALWAYS a BETTER WAY....not, "if it ain't broke don't fix it"

Thanks again

 

[frank-germany]

I've spent a little time reviewing your blog, Franks F1lter.com (now there's a crappy name), ... and I must say, I'm not impressed I'd share some constructive criticism with each of you, but none of you could afford me.

F1lter.com is actually the crappiest name I could come up with
that somehow makes sense

as I didn't want somebody to offer me xx.xxx usd
and tease me to ruin the system in selling it


and yes you are right this is my portpolio
quite impressive I guess

more than 1 million names
regged in the last 10 days


that's what I would call impressive, man


and really you are right
I can't afford your advice

as I need somebody with 20/20 vision

 

[hawkeye]

that should give you enough criticism to last you until the farting cows come home! lol

LOL. Too funny!

I have my own suspicions why so few registered domains sell each year, and the main reason is that "end users" never see them due to the nature of the beast called the domain industry. I've said it before and I'll say it again, "end users" have never heard of the likes of a Sedo, a Uniregistry or an Undeveloped. And changing their names to "Uni" or "Dan" just doesn't cut it.

Oh please do tell how 'you' can/will/do/make/provide that better platform than any of the above and how soon that you will bring that to market so endusers will find it and available domains, and how it'll increase the domain sell thru rates for all to enjoy. An 'actual' plan/vision would be appreciated and not a redundant history of how successful you've been in the past , or your typical off-subject nonsensical retorts. That is 'if' you actually have one!