Death Blow to Minisite-Makers .... what now?

[alien51]

According to an excerpt from the news in CNN:

"In the post, Google describes minisite as sites with "shallow or low-quality content."

Adding the extension will let users create a "personal blocklist." They won't see content from that site again in Google searches done while using Chrome.

It also sends Google a list of all the sites users have blocked."

Personally, I'm not against Google's algorithm punishing websites with poor content by giving low ranking... but asking users to vote for websites that should be blocked from the internet, leaves the door open for people to sabotage their website competitors by voting them out.

And should this mean that your website should NEVER go online, if it has little content yet???

This also leaves a permanent black-eye to "nice" domain names whose previous owner got stricken out of Google search.

 

[domainhustle]

I have heard about this a while back because I run a good bit of arcade and games related sites and because many flash arcades distribute the same gaming content this has got a lot of guys worried but from my experience farmer, panda, Koala bear or whatever crazy secret agent name they cook up next has only helped improve my earnings on adsense.

I think this is good for domainers and web developers because no matter what they say you have to have something to anchor onto and the domain name is HANDS DOWN the best anchor. Are some large companies working their mojo and doing a lot better in the index YES but I think us little guys can look at them and what they are doing and work just as good a mojo. Domainers can pick the best names and do the best outside the box research of anyone and that will pay off.

Also I used to work in a rather large corp 10 years ago and often these small changes would come along and be gone like the wind just as fast. I can not mention their name ( NDA ) but you would be amazed how often we changed protocols only to eventually go back where we were in the first place ( just with a different name ). So for me I am not worried just excited to get more data and learn some new tactics in response to whatever.No need for tension when it is so much better to work together and come up with clever tactics to react to this.

 

[labrocca]

Facebook is in a more commanding position, than Google.

I've never seen a FB Google result unless I have Facebook in the name. Most information results pull up Wikipedia in top 3.

It's interesting to me how domainers are so comfy with low quality results from Google because they lack the ability to make quality websites. The writing is on the wall domainers. Develop your domains into full-fledged quality sites or suffer. It takes almost no talent to be a domainer. That fact should not be rewarded with good search position.

Google is the world's largest aggregator

False. Google indexes a very small portion of a page only to display it as part of a directory listing. They do not publish the data as an aggregator.

Taking a serious look at cleaning out the middle of the road domains and the junk and building real sites on the strong names.

There ya go. Someone gets it.

btw..my own sites have seen an increase in Google traffic referrals.

 

[barefoottech]

It's interesting to me how domainers are so comfy with low quality results from Google because they lack the ability to make quality websites. The writing is on the wall domainers. Develop your domains into full-fledged quality sites or suffer. It takes almost no talent to be a domainer. That fact should not be rewarded with good search position.

There ya go. Someone gets it.

btw..my own sites have seen an increase in Google traffic referrals.

Spot on and BTW my sites have also benefited.

Making a 5 minute ArticleSpun WP blog with crap look/ads is Not a quality product, so don't whinge about Google giving it the flick.

Same applies to all those Terrible Noomle/WhyPark sites.

 

[Sparhawke]

I have said it before and I will say it again just for the record, Google has been given way too much power...back in the day it the internet was all about a wild ride of discovery, now it is simply what one company wants us to see.

Since when has one company ever been able to dictate the lives and businesses of so many and been able to get away with simply...well lets face facts here, build a sodding great brick wall in front of their door and not allow anyone entry? (I cant quite think of the word...what is it I am trying to think of, ax...ox, ux, ix...ah thats it, extortion)

Googles motto back in the day was "Do no Evil"...I think that lasted maybe a week before they got the whiff being able to do what the hell they please?

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely ~ Lord Acton, 1834–1902

People say you can simply make another search engine, but doesn't Google own the proprietary rights to the system of checking the strength of a page based on a "vote" to it from another? In that case how would someone else be better?

Hell, even Microsoft, the original pirate cannot best it.

And how do we get it out there so people will find it without Google and the other heavy hitters when we don't have access to insane amounts of cash?

I am not here to pee on your campfire but to state facts...Google and the other Search Engines can kill you in a blink online, without anyone finding you naturally you are stuffed. A supersite like facebook, Amazon and Ebay requires millions in investment, something that just is not an option for some.

Now, back to the topic on minisites, this will be absolutely terrible, who the hell is to say what is interesting to one person?

I want to go and re-enact the Boston tea party dressed as a stormtrooper, online I can do that and find a group that wants to do it too...but not if Google disapproves apparently or if I don't want to pony up insane amounts of money for advertisement of my intentions.

 

[alien51]

It's interesting to me how domainers are so comfy with low quality results from Google because they lack the ability to make quality websites. The writing is on the wall domainers. Develop your domains into full-fledged quality sites or suffer.

Not exactly that they "lack the ability" all the time. But what if you have a portfolio of 800 domains? You can't possibly maintain "quality" standards on all of them at the same time. Many of these domains will perhaps sit in "purgatory" state, while waiting for a buyer.

Many domainers are simply doing some "half-cooking" on website development to while-away the time waiting for sales. So whether they are contributing something good to society with their half-baked websites, is beside the point. I think it is just a natural "circumstance" for any domainer who has a huge portfolio of domains, compared to a website expert who probably has just half a dozen domains to devote their time to.

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------

I have said it before and I will say it again just for the record, Google has been given way too much power...back in the day it the internet was all about a wild ride of discovery, now it is simply what one company wants us to see.

No entity in the entire history of mankind, has wielded so much power and influence to human lives like Google does. Not even Genghis Khan or the Ottoman Empire have some much power in their hands.

Perhaps Matt Cutts feels like he is the living god who decides the life and death of our online presence. We worship thee to receive our daily adsense blessings, or be cast to the eternal flames of banned adsense accounts and low pagerank damnation. lol.

 

[domainhustle]

I am not trying to be funny or anything but if someone feels domaining takes almost no talent why bother participating in a forum around that topic. IMHO playing a guitar takes almost no talent but playing one in such a way with tunes guys will pay you to hear does take some talent.

I think it is an interesting point that many domainers do hold so many sites and it will be harder to develop them all + they did not buy to develop rather they bought to resell in most cases and that seems to be an art to me.

Maybe the next stage is to be kind of a hybrid domainer and developer. Something like when I recorded acts on tape and guys started talking about digital recording and then studios went half and half until well yeah digital won out LOL. Going off that theory I agree that developing will win out eventually but it will take time for guys to evolve their model and I would rather see it at the domainers pace not at Googles dictated pace. Regardless of how you develop your site it is not good for the consumer to have so few choices when it comes to how to find you.

 

[DU]

Domainers have such a narrow view of everything. It's almost laughable.
On the one hand you condemn Google for having shit results. On the other hand you don't want them to remove the shit results that you are.
On the one hand Google wields too much power. On the other hand you defer all of your decisions to what Google is doing.

If you build a shit site why should anyone ever have to step in it by mistake?

 

[Kate]

It takes almost no talent to be a domainer.

Sure about that ?
Most domainers are struggling so I would say it takes talent that most do not have, or will only acquire in the long run
There is no guarantee that those who failed at domaining will do any better with 'development'.

 

[alien51]

it will take time for guys to evolve their model and I would rather see it at the domainers pace not at Googles dictated pace.

Technically, you will still be able to evolve at your own pace. Google is simply saying that you just have to stay at the bottom of the Search results while you're at it.

Regardless of how you develop your site it is not good for the consumer to have so few choices when it comes to how to find you.

The fact is, consumers do have thousands or even millions of "choices". You type something at Google, and it will return say millions of search results. A consumer can literally go through these millions of choices if he wants to.

The battle of contention is actually the Top Ten. It's like going to a popular restaurant that has a long list of menu. Instead of trying to sample all the food listed on the menu, you probably would simply ask the waiter what is the Chef's Top Ten Recommendations, and that's what you would probably order. Almost the same analogy with Google as our Chef. Not that the Chef will stop you, if you wanted to taste all the food (junk and all) if you have the time in your hands to do it.

---------- Post added at 09:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 AM ----------

If you build a shit site why should anyone ever have to step in it by mistake?

That may be true.

I think what some people are saying is that "free marketing" is being killed on the internet by Google.

What is "free marketing"... you walk inside a busy marketplace and all these entrepreneurs are shouting their goods at you trying to get your attention. The good products and the bad products are all mixed together with equal chances of getting your attention.

But on the internet, it is different. There is this Omnipresent Being Called Google who is trying to put a masking tape on what it perceives as "inferior" products outright. Only products that meet their "quality" guidelines are allowed to do some marketing. The "free market" stuff of the real-world is gone.

Again, maybe this is good for the welfare of mankind and stuff. But on the otherside, you are also trying to squash people who are trying to make money and earn a living.

It's irritating if you are a "consumer" to be bombarded by uncontrolled tons of marketing. But if you are in a community of people who are on the same boat trying to make money, it's probably like killing your competitor so you're the only one left standing. You are earning not because you have good talented stuffs, but because you are supporting the Google Police to haul those crap competitors to jail and not see the light of day.

 

[DU]

I think what some people are saying is that "free marketing" is being killed on the internet by Google.

Consumer marketing is benefiting. As a consumer I want access to information.

Who complained when Google marked sites as "harmful" ?
Who thought it was fair when JCP and Overstock gamed the Google system?

The internet is a free market; however, people confuse free market with fair market. Usually the bottom of the chain think it's not fair... those at the top think it's not free enough.

What is "free marketing"... you walk inside a busy marketplace and all these entrepreneurs are shouting their goods at you trying to get your attention. The good products and the bad products are all mixed together with equal chances of getting your attention.

Some stands pay to be closer to the entrance and for more space. It's far from equal.

As a consumer you walk towards the loudest call of "FRESH VEGETABLES" only to get there be told... Vegetables are good for you! You can buy them over there...

As a consumer you walk towards the loudest call of "FRESH MEAT" only to get there be told... we don't have any meat... but I know a guy who pays me to tell you where you might find meat.

What would you do? Me ?

I'd try searching in a different market place .. I'd see if someone could find me grocer/butcher directly. Maybe Mr Bing, or Mr Mahalo, or a Facebook Friend

You can use whatever analogy you want and from a consumer perspective you will almost always lose.

But on the internet, it is different. There is this Omnipresent Being Called Google who is trying to put a masking tape on what it perceives as "inferior" products outright. Only products that meet their "quality" guidelines are allowed to do some marketing. The "free market" stuff of the real-world is gone.

Noomle, Parked, NamePark all have quality standards for the domain name. How totally un-freemarket of them. At least you can pay Epik to take whatever crap you have.

The alternatives for you to get ranked are: have high enough quality, pay enough to buy me off. Not sure of the profitability of the latter.

Again, maybe this is good for the welfare of mankind and stuff. But on the otherside, you are also trying to squash people who are trying to make money and earn a living.

Pickpockets, scam artists are all just trying to make a living too.

Autoblogs with ads are just people running around in the marketplace yelling randomly and getting paid for it. They aren't providing anything.

All the domain Gods are Yelling about Traffic.. why? because they don't know anything else. Traffic has ZERO value if it's on a road to nowhere.

It's irritating if you are a "consumer" to be bombarded by uncontrolled tons of marketing. But if you are in a community of people who are on the same boat trying to make money, it's probably like killing your competitor so you're the only one left standing. You are earning not because you have good talented stuffs, but because you are supporting the Google Police to haul those crap competitors to jail and not see the light of day.

This doesn't make sense to me. You seem to want Google to be ok with irritating consumers from which I infer you are ok irritating consumers.

If thats what you want then ok.

As I say.... you're $8 from registering ANY .com you want and getting into the Free Market and competing with Google however you want on the Internet space.

 

[barefoottech]

Hurray DefaultUser
SPOT ON.

 

[alien51]

Consumer marketing is benefiting. As a consumer I want access to information.

I never said that "low quality" websites should rank high.

But what i did say before, is that some people who pride themselves of claiming to write "original content" to make themselves appealing to Google, are just overrated. A lot of "original content" i see around are just a rehash of information taken elsewhere, recycled, re-worded, sprinkled with rants and opinion, and then marketed as original content.

So in effect, the ability to rehash "outsourced" information to present them as "original content" without anyone even doubting its orginality, can perhaps qualify as a "talent".

I don't think there is one guy who can claim to be an original content writer on a portfolio of topics. The only legitimate model i see, is pay writers who are experts in their own fields of interest much like what newspapers do, and get them to write for your website.

But what to do with domainers who own 800 domains? What "moral" options do they have in their hands with their "trashy" domains?

Noomle, Parked, NamePark all have quality standards for the domain name. How totally un-freemarket of them.

It's their servers, so it's their rules.

It's Google's index, so it's Google's rules. No argument there.

I was just explaining the difference between free market in the real world, versus the internet. Because in the internet, you need to be on "somebody's" index for people to find you. In the real world, you can be a hawker on the street like in New York and offer your goods to anyone passing by with no Google Police inspecting your goods if they are up to their own quality standards.

Pickpockets, scam artists are all just trying to make a living too.

Pickpockets and scammers, are criminals. So let's not include them anymore.

But "low quality", this is the one being debated upon.

Again, the "talent" you need in web development is to try not to be a lazy ass that depends on "autoblogs". But try to be like Leonardo DiCaprio's character in "Catch Me If You Can" where he tried to pass himself off as a Medical Doctor, simply by getting his medical infos from watching television soap operas. He's not really a doctor. He's just a "talented" scammer, trying to pass himself off as legit. That's what many "original content" websites are doing. It's difficult to be self-righteous and look yourself in the mirror and say everything i write on my website is my own original idea that did not come somewhere else.

You seem to want Google to be ok with irritating consumers from which I infer you are ok irritating consumers.

I was just saying that i'm not here to be the Police. This Namepros forum is not a Consumers Advocate site. This is a site for people talking about how to make money from domains, whether reselling them, developing them, parking them, or turning them into minisites with crap content. We haven't come to the point yet that we treat minisites the same way we treat Black Hat seos. Otherwise, they should have shutdown the minisite showcase thread here.

 

[mwzd]

I've only seen an upturn on ranking and traffic for our 'minisites', guess goog likes what we're doing.

Now if it only paid a decent revenue share, we'd develop a lot more stuff that would benefit us both, but goog wants to have the cake and eat it too.

Guess you can still make money off minisites, just don't depend on ad revenue, look for alternative revenue streams is all.

 

[Sparhawke]

It's like going to a popular restaurant that has a long list of menu. Instead of trying to sample all the food listed on the menu, you probably would simply ask the waiter what is the Chef's Top Ten Recommendations, and that's what you would probably order. Almost the same analogy with Google as our Chef. Not that the Chef will stop you, if you wanted to taste all the food (junk and all) if you have the time in your hands to do it.

Just to go slightly off-topic here but that last thing you ever want to do is get the cooks opinion. With the exception of Gordon Ramsay, Curtis Stone, Wolfgang Puck and other world class chefs (as well as their Maitre D) you should never get their opinion on what you should order in most cases as (s)he will be more interested in getting rid of the items that do not sell very well. What you want to do is not ask the people on the next table but judge their feedback in secret. If they are nodding their head and grinning then you can take that as a sign of good things to come for you.

This same tactic in a restaurant works the same way as a search engine, for the most part. Google and the others are telling us what we should be buying without any clue what we are actually looking for and what we like to eat. But if you have a hidden little gem of a restaurant it will never be found because the Yellow Pages equivalent will never mention it and the people will not stumble across it?

I tend to write either in a strictly business like fashion which is dry and boring or a whimsical ramble that takes ages to get to the point, when has ever asking someone their opinion who just doesn't get it garnered favourable results?

I tend to actually think the system is not broken...companies still get free advertisement for their wares while they are on the top spot, Google gets their advertisement fees and content from sites competing to be on top and the better sites end up rising.

All this change will do is shove everyone into a Gladiators arena and watch everything turn into a bloodbath when everyone is voting down their competitors.

The one thing that could be done is to give far less credence to spam and link farms but they bring in the cash, so they will not do that.

 

[SpareDomains]

It's interesting to me how domainers are so comfy with low quality results from Google because they lack the ability to make quality websites.

keyword being "domainers" not "developers"

I sold a hand reg yesterday for $1000, I sold a hand reg at the end of last year for $7500 so $8500 for a $15 investment both on topics I have no interest in.

Building sites on domains that cover topics you have no interest in when a "domainers" primary goal is sales makes no sense.

Since 2002 I have run my own servers, done web development, built numerous fully developed sites, sold numerous fully developed sites, done SEO, SEM for companies etc...

I have hundreds of domains parked, hundreds of domains slightly developed and a large handful of fully developed sites all generating income.

The assumption that the forum is filled with only domainers that can't develop is not the case just doesn't make sense to develop something you have no interest in. I park domains I wanna sell, I slightly develop domains I wanna sell but sell down the road for high amounts as more of a protective measure instead of just being a parked page and I fully develop domains I have an interest in.

I get your point and agree fully developed is the way to go for long term growth but that should only be done on domains that relate to something your knowledgeable on as something developed by someone that doesn't have the interest/knowledge on the topic would be better parked until it sells to someone who does so it reaches full potential.

I am not trying to be funny or anything but if someone feels domaining takes almost no talent why bother participating in a forum around that topic. IMHO playing a guitar takes almost no talent but playing one in such a way with tunes guys will pay you to hear does take some talent.

I think it is an interesting point that many domainers do hold so many sites and it will be harder to develop them all + they did not buy to develop rather they bought to resell in most cases and that seems to be an art to me.

for 10 posts you nailed it

 

[firefly]

Bingo SD

Repped both you and the new guy...lol

It is, after all, a domaining forum amongst other things.

 

[DU]

Just to go slightly off-topic here but that last thing you ever want to do is get the cooks opinion. With the exception of Gordon Ramsay, Curtis Stone, Wolfgang Puck and other world class chefs (as well as their Maitre D) you should never get their opinion on what you should order in most cases as (s)he will be more interested in getting rid of the items that do not sell very well.

To go way off topic:

Actually you ask the waiter as they are the ones making money from the experience. In fact, at a decent restaurant, one of the best things to do is to ask the waiter what is good that day. They know what is freshest, what is working and what is not working in the kitchen.

Some restaurant waiters will vary their recs based on who's working in the kitchen

Given restaurant recommendations that I've received - asking other people is the worst thing to do. Of course, I'm kind of a food snob like "Chef"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MixYRIUzVXs

JC.

 

[alien51]

the last thing you ever want to do is get the cooks opinion... you should never get their opinion on what you should order in most cases as (s)he will be more interested in getting rid of the items that do not sell very well.

The cook can do that, but it's a guarantee that he will never have repeat customers. The only reason why i think a chef will do that, is if he wants to sabotage the restaurant because he is getting low wages.

I tend to write .... boring or a whimsical ramble that takes ages to get to the point, when has ever asking someone their opinion who just doesn't get it garnered favourable results?

When the one judging "favourable results" is a contextual machine that relies on backlinks as proof that what you are writing is something somebody would be genuinely interested enough to link to you.

All this change will do is shove everyone into a Gladiators arena and watch everything turn into a bloodbath when everyone is voting down their competitors.

Voting down is still lame.

In other web development forums, there are people who really hunt down websites, take note that the Adsense adverts are too close to a picture or article, then report the website to Google to be punished.

To some people, you have to kill someone to promote fairness. The hapless minisite-maker was probably earning like what, 0.02 cents per click?

 

[Kate]

I park domains I wanna sell, I slightly develop domains I wanna sell but sell down the road for high amounts as more of a protective measure instead of just being a parked page and I fully develop domains I have an interest in.

Same here :blink:

 

[DU]

Same here :blink:

How many people do you employ?