Death Blow to Minisite-Makers .... what now?

[alien51]

According to an excerpt from the news in CNN:

"In the post, Google describes minisite as sites with "shallow or low-quality content."

Adding the extension will let users create a "personal blocklist." They won't see content from that site again in Google searches done while using Chrome.

It also sends Google a list of all the sites users have blocked."

Personally, I'm not against Google's algorithm punishing websites with poor content by giving low ranking... but asking users to vote for websites that should be blocked from the internet, leaves the door open for people to sabotage their website competitors by voting them out.

And should this mean that your website should NEVER go online, if it has little content yet???

This also leaves a permanent black-eye to "nice" domain names whose previous owner got stricken out of Google search.

 

[gemstar]

Not a flame war...lol.

Just pointing out that a lot of us have sites that are directly in the cross hairs now.

that's all.

Cheers

All the best my friend.:wave:

 

[barefoottech]

I make my living selling Minisites
Am I worried?
NO Way
Google has said it is Spammy Keyword flooded Landing style minisites with little or NO USEFUL content that is in their sights.

Some of my minisites have actually improved their rankings dramatically since the supposed Purge. All the crap sites I was competing with have disappeared leaving my useful sites to truly shine.

 

[DugoohooRep]

Nice work, Barefoottech!

The new rules require domaining industry to evolve from minisites to quality minisites!

 

[alien51]

Google has said it is Spammy Keyword flooded Landing style minisites with little or NO USEFUL content that is in their sights.

Google did say also that they plan to obliterate "low quality" content websites, as well.

Spammy keyword flooding, is fair game. A computer program can detect that. But Google wants to pass the job of "editorial scrutiny" to website readers and asking them to "vouch" if a website has "lousy" content.

I can understand people want to make money, but not all have poetic, literary inclination. And no matter how they try, sometimes you can detect that this website writer is just trying hard to fill his webpage with "text" to make the site "heavy" to feed the google bots with something to chew. But we humans know that he simply wrote 3 paragraphs worth of garbage.

It's easy to defeat a bot. But you can't fool humans as much. And when people thumb down your website, you're gone.

 

[barefoottech]

Exactly
I did say NO USEFULcontent
3 paragraphs of crap is not useful.

 

[carob]

More interesting will be a Facebook filter - giving priority to sites your friends like, or ones that people like them like. This is already coming in with location-type services.

Apparently behind this new Google algo is pressure about scraping sites - for example scraped content from Stackoverflow outranks the original content on Stackoverflow regularly. It is always hard for Google to know who really has the original content, this is ongoing.

I put a small page about a local group with their contact details onto an original content site of mine, just to help them out. It ranked number 2 for that search, so anyone wanting to find that group could easily do so. Then suddenly the top 4 result positions were occupied by 4 results from one site scraping content bigtime in that subject area. Go figure.

The recent algo changes jumped a minisite of mine from nowhere to number 1 for a super search term, so I'd say it's a mixed result so far but watch this space.

 

[mwzd]

I wonder how long it will be before a company 'guarantees' black marks against your competitor for $xxx/1,000 marks...

Not very long, this could be the start of the biggest flame war or the first world wide web war if people start doing it and google relies ONLY on this info to rank sites, which wouldn't be possible. Otherwise they'd probably end up in the block list of a few hundred million people given M$s clout.

They've never liked that kind of site, and they've been getting a lot of pressure from industry people who have their ear.

Google is the world's largest aggregator, they don't really create content, what then makes them an authority on content quality? And as for not liking that 'kind' of sites, who likes competition?

They actually consider the eHow website as garbage. They say that website is just like asking the man on the street for advice on just about anything.

About 90% of the advice you'd get from a 'man on the street' of his area of knowledge / expertise will be BETTER than the info that Goog searches for you.

And it's ironic, they're also asking the 'man on the street' to provide his opinion on what is and what is not quality content on stuff that might not be within that person's area of expertise, unlike wikipedia / ehow.

And when people thumb down your website, you're gone.

Not going to happen, if anything Goog will afford 1-3% of their algo weightage to people's opinion.

This is a classic case of much ado about nothing, I've been web publishing for a long time, what I've learnt is keep your target audience in mind while developing and google will follow in terms of ranking.

 

[DugoohooRep]

if one company hires one million people to block all its competitors, what will happen?

 

[enlytend]

It's funny that eHow gets mentioned in a positive light a few times in this thread. Sites like that(paid content churned out quickly by people who may or may not have a clue) are assumed to be a target of this as well.

And no matter how they try, sometimes you can detect that this website writer is just trying hard to fill his webpage with "text" to make the site "heavy" to feed the google bots with something to chew. But we humans know that he simply wrote 3 paragraphs worth of garbage.

That's what they're after. Banal, useless crap like ...

If you're buying men's shoes you need to know all about shoes for men! Men's shoes come in black, brown and all colors. Most shoes for men have shoelaces, though sandals are men's shoes too and you just stick your feet in them. Men have been wearing shoes for hundreds of years. Cave men didn't wear shoes but after that everyone did. If you're a man buying shoes you have to make sure they're the right size for your feet. Not to worry, men's shoes come in all sizes and you can find the right pair whether you have big feet or little feet. Men's shoes also have different widths for wide feet or narrow feet. We have the best selection of men's shoes here!​

(If you just took a quick look back at your site to see if I plagerised it when I wrote that, you might be a target.)

if one company hires one million people to block all its competitors, what will happen?

One would HOPE that Google, who knows very well that people are always trying to game their system and have been doing so for years, might have thought of that! They're well aware of the fact that many people define SPAM as "Sites Positioned Above Mine."

 

[alien51]

It is always hard for Google to know who really has the original content, this is ongoing.

Sometimes, this "original content" issue becomes overrated.

How can 12 million webpages possibly produce "original content" talking about the same thing?

What these "professional writers" do, is read the "original content" from somewhere else, then simply write their "opinion" about what they read. Then it becomes practically "original content" since everyone is entitled to give an opinion about anything under the sun.

Most of the time, people simply complain about the "writing style". Because accept the truth or not, many people do not really have any talent in writing.

But just because you can write your "opinion" with the quality of a novelist or a Pulitzer Prize winner, it doesn't mean what you are writing about is exactly "original content".

Keyword spammers, I think, are just the lazy people. Professional copy writers use "more effort" to tweak their writing style and use their talent to make it appear their "content" is original, but actually the gist or substance of their articles also came from somewhere else.

 

[SmokinJoe24]

Play Nice Boys and Girls.

I have 60 mini sites all built on exact match domains, they are all doing fine so far. But I am not building any future on them.

I mainly built the minisites to avoid making nothing with parking.

Taking a serious look at cleaning out the middle of the road domains and the junk and building real sites on the strong names.

Good Luck to all.

 

[cantstop]

face the wheel

I make my living selling Minisites
Am I worrried?
NO Way
Google has said it is Spammy Keyword flooded Landing style minisites with little or NO USEFUL content that is in their sights.

Some of my minisites have actually improved their rankings dramatically since the supposed Purge. All the crap sites I was competing with have disappeared leaving my useful sites to truly shine.

remember there was a recent update... that makes sites move around.and made some "shine"..
I don't think they have started yet... all these blog post on the official blog;this is fair warning....the manifesto..we will know from the howling when it gets going .Maybe still decorating the new offices at amphitheater parkway

 

[TCK]

You wouldn't happen to have a link to this article? Sounds like much of this would apply only if you are using Chrome.

In any case, Google will not very likely hurt sites that send quality traffic to their PPC advertisers.

Would be nice to have a link to that article. Thanks.

According to an excerpt from the news in CNN:

"In the post, Google describes minisite as sites with "shallow or low-quality content."

Adding the extension will let users create a "personal blocklist." They won't see content from that site again in Google searches done while using Chrome.

It also sends Google a list of all the sites users have blocked."

Personally, I'm not against Google's algorithm punishing websites with poor content by giving low ranking... but asking users to vote for websites that should be blocked from the internet, leaves the door open for people to sabotage their website competitors by voting them out.

And should this mean that your website should NEVER go online, if it has little content yet???

This also leaves a permanent black-eye to "nice" domain names whose previous owner got stricken out of Google search.

 

[enlytend]

I don't have the cnn link, but here's where they probably took the info from:

The Chrome extension release:
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/new-chrome-extension-block-sites-from.html

Announcement about the "Panda" update, which kicked in on 2/24.
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/finding-more-high-quality-sites-in.html

Major sites affected by Panda (aka "Farmer"):
http://searchengineland.com/who-lost-in-googles-farmer-algorithm-change-66173

 

[misterman88]

Google is the world's largest aggregator, they don't really create content, what then makes them an authority on content quality? And as for not liking that 'kind' of sites, who likes competition?


About 90% of the advice you'd get from a 'man on the street' of his area of knowledge / expertise will be BETTER than the info that Goog searches for you.

And it's ironic, they're also asking the 'man on the street' to provide his opinion on what is and what is not quality content on stuff that might not be within that person's area of expertise, unlike wikipedia / ehow.

wow, talk about taking the words right out of my mouth before i could say them!!!!

 

[domainhustle]

I have heard about this a while back because I run a good bit of arcade and games related sites and because many flash arcades distribute the same gaming content this has got a lot of guys worried but from my experience farmer, panda, Koala bear or whatever crazy secret agent name they cook up next has only helped improve my earnings on adsense.

I think this is good for domainers and web developers because no matter what they say you have to have something to anchor onto and the domain name is HANDS DOWN the best anchor. Are some large companies working their mojo and doing a lot better in the index YES but I think us little guys can look at them and what they are doing and work just as good a mojo. Domainers can pick the best names and do the best outside the box research of anyone and that will pay off.

Also I used to work in a rather large corp 10 years ago and often these small changes would come along and be gone like the wind just as fast. I can not mention their name ( NDA ) but you would be amazed how often we changed protocols only to eventually go back where we were in the first place ( just with a different name ). So for me I am not worried just excited to get more data and learn some new tactics in response to whatever.No need for tension when it is so much better to work together and come up with clever tactics to react to this.

 

[labrocca]

Facebook is in a more commanding position, than Google.

I've never seen a FB Google result unless I have Facebook in the name. Most information results pull up Wikipedia in top 3.

It's interesting to me how domainers are so comfy with low quality results from Google because they lack the ability to make quality websites. The writing is on the wall domainers. Develop your domains into full-fledged quality sites or suffer. It takes almost no talent to be a domainer. That fact should not be rewarded with good search position.

Google is the world's largest aggregator

False. Google indexes a very small portion of a page only to display it as part of a directory listing. They do not publish the data as an aggregator.

Taking a serious look at cleaning out the middle of the road domains and the junk and building real sites on the strong names.

There ya go. Someone gets it.

btw..my own sites have seen an increase in Google traffic referrals.

 

[barefoottech]

It's interesting to me how domainers are so comfy with low quality results from Google because they lack the ability to make quality websites. The writing is on the wall domainers. Develop your domains into full-fledged quality sites or suffer. It takes almost no talent to be a domainer. That fact should not be rewarded with good search position.

There ya go. Someone gets it.

btw..my own sites have seen an increase in Google traffic referrals.

Spot on and BTW my sites have also benefited.

Making a 5 minute ArticleSpun WP blog with crap look/ads is Not a quality product, so don't whinge about Google giving it the flick.

Same applies to all those Terrible Noomle/WhyPark sites.

 

[Sparhawke]

I have said it before and I will say it again just for the record, Google has been given way too much power...back in the day it the internet was all about a wild ride of discovery, now it is simply what one company wants us to see.

Since when has one company ever been able to dictate the lives and businesses of so many and been able to get away with simply...well lets face facts here, build a sodding great brick wall in front of their door and not allow anyone entry? (I cant quite think of the word...what is it I am trying to think of, ax...ox, ux, ix...ah thats it, extortion)

Googles motto back in the day was "Do no Evil"...I think that lasted maybe a week before they got the whiff being able to do what the hell they please?

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely ~ Lord Acton, 1834–1902

People say you can simply make another search engine, but doesn't Google own the proprietary rights to the system of checking the strength of a page based on a "vote" to it from another? In that case how would someone else be better?

Hell, even Microsoft, the original pirate cannot best it.

And how do we get it out there so people will find it without Google and the other heavy hitters when we don't have access to insane amounts of cash?

I am not here to pee on your campfire but to state facts...Google and the other Search Engines can kill you in a blink online, without anyone finding you naturally you are stuffed. A supersite like facebook, Amazon and Ebay requires millions in investment, something that just is not an option for some.

Now, back to the topic on minisites, this will be absolutely terrible, who the hell is to say what is interesting to one person?

I want to go and re-enact the Boston tea party dressed as a stormtrooper, online I can do that and find a group that wants to do it too...but not if Google disapproves apparently or if I don't want to pony up insane amounts of money for advertisement of my intentions.

 

[alien51]

It's interesting to me how domainers are so comfy with low quality results from Google because they lack the ability to make quality websites. The writing is on the wall domainers. Develop your domains into full-fledged quality sites or suffer.

Not exactly that they "lack the ability" all the time. But what if you have a portfolio of 800 domains? You can't possibly maintain "quality" standards on all of them at the same time. Many of these domains will perhaps sit in "purgatory" state, while waiting for a buyer.

Many domainers are simply doing some "half-cooking" on website development to while-away the time waiting for sales. So whether they are contributing something good to society with their half-baked websites, is beside the point. I think it is just a natural "circumstance" for any domainer who has a huge portfolio of domains, compared to a website expert who probably has just half a dozen domains to devote their time to.

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------

I have said it before and I will say it again just for the record, Google has been given way too much power...back in the day it the internet was all about a wild ride of discovery, now it is simply what one company wants us to see.

No entity in the entire history of mankind, has wielded so much power and influence to human lives like Google does. Not even Genghis Khan or the Ottoman Empire have some much power in their hands.

Perhaps Matt Cutts feels like he is the living god who decides the life and death of our online presence. We worship thee to receive our daily adsense blessings, or be cast to the eternal flames of banned adsense accounts and low pagerank damnation. lol.

 

[domainhustle]

I am not trying to be funny or anything but if someone feels domaining takes almost no talent why bother participating in a forum around that topic. IMHO playing a guitar takes almost no talent but playing one in such a way with tunes guys will pay you to hear does take some talent.

I think it is an interesting point that many domainers do hold so many sites and it will be harder to develop them all + they did not buy to develop rather they bought to resell in most cases and that seems to be an art to me.

Maybe the next stage is to be kind of a hybrid domainer and developer. Something like when I recorded acts on tape and guys started talking about digital recording and then studios went half and half until well yeah digital won out LOL. Going off that theory I agree that developing will win out eventually but it will take time for guys to evolve their model and I would rather see it at the domainers pace not at Googles dictated pace. Regardless of how you develop your site it is not good for the consumer to have so few choices when it comes to how to find you.

 

[DU]

Domainers have such a narrow view of everything. It's almost laughable.
On the one hand you condemn Google for having shit results. On the other hand you don't want them to remove the shit results that you are.
On the one hand Google wields too much power. On the other hand you defer all of your decisions to what Google is doing.

If you build a shit site why should anyone ever have to step in it by mistake?

 

[Kate]

It takes almost no talent to be a domainer.

Sure about that ?
Most domainers are struggling so I would say it takes talent that most do not have, or will only acquire in the long run
There is no guarantee that those who failed at domaining will do any better with 'development'.

 

[alien51]

it will take time for guys to evolve their model and I would rather see it at the domainers pace not at Googles dictated pace.

Technically, you will still be able to evolve at your own pace. Google is simply saying that you just have to stay at the bottom of the Search results while you're at it.

Regardless of how you develop your site it is not good for the consumer to have so few choices when it comes to how to find you.

The fact is, consumers do have thousands or even millions of "choices". You type something at Google, and it will return say millions of search results. A consumer can literally go through these millions of choices if he wants to.

The battle of contention is actually the Top Ten. It's like going to a popular restaurant that has a long list of menu. Instead of trying to sample all the food listed on the menu, you probably would simply ask the waiter what is the Chef's Top Ten Recommendations, and that's what you would probably order. Almost the same analogy with Google as our Chef. Not that the Chef will stop you, if you wanted to taste all the food (junk and all) if you have the time in your hands to do it.

---------- Post added at 09:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 AM ----------

If you build a shit site why should anyone ever have to step in it by mistake?

That may be true.

I think what some people are saying is that "free marketing" is being killed on the internet by Google.

What is "free marketing"... you walk inside a busy marketplace and all these entrepreneurs are shouting their goods at you trying to get your attention. The good products and the bad products are all mixed together with equal chances of getting your attention.

But on the internet, it is different. There is this Omnipresent Being Called Google who is trying to put a masking tape on what it perceives as "inferior" products outright. Only products that meet their "quality" guidelines are allowed to do some marketing. The "free market" stuff of the real-world is gone.

Again, maybe this is good for the welfare of mankind and stuff. But on the otherside, you are also trying to squash people who are trying to make money and earn a living.

It's irritating if you are a "consumer" to be bombarded by uncontrolled tons of marketing. But if you are in a community of people who are on the same boat trying to make money, it's probably like killing your competitor so you're the only one left standing. You are earning not because you have good talented stuffs, but because you are supporting the Google Police to haul those crap competitors to jail and not see the light of day.

 

[DU]

I think what some people are saying is that "free marketing" is being killed on the internet by Google.

Consumer marketing is benefiting. As a consumer I want access to information.

Who complained when Google marked sites as "harmful" ?
Who thought it was fair when JCP and Overstock gamed the Google system?

The internet is a free market; however, people confuse free market with fair market. Usually the bottom of the chain think it's not fair... those at the top think it's not free enough.

What is "free marketing"... you walk inside a busy marketplace and all these entrepreneurs are shouting their goods at you trying to get your attention. The good products and the bad products are all mixed together with equal chances of getting your attention.

Some stands pay to be closer to the entrance and for more space. It's far from equal.

As a consumer you walk towards the loudest call of "FRESH VEGETABLES" only to get there be told... Vegetables are good for you! You can buy them over there...

As a consumer you walk towards the loudest call of "FRESH MEAT" only to get there be told... we don't have any meat... but I know a guy who pays me to tell you where you might find meat.

What would you do? Me ?

I'd try searching in a different market place .. I'd see if someone could find me grocer/butcher directly. Maybe Mr Bing, or Mr Mahalo, or a Facebook Friend

You can use whatever analogy you want and from a consumer perspective you will almost always lose.

But on the internet, it is different. There is this Omnipresent Being Called Google who is trying to put a masking tape on what it perceives as "inferior" products outright. Only products that meet their "quality" guidelines are allowed to do some marketing. The "free market" stuff of the real-world is gone.

Noomle, Parked, NamePark all have quality standards for the domain name. How totally un-freemarket of them. At least you can pay Epik to take whatever crap you have.

The alternatives for you to get ranked are: have high enough quality, pay enough to buy me off. Not sure of the profitability of the latter.

Again, maybe this is good for the welfare of mankind and stuff. But on the otherside, you are also trying to squash people who are trying to make money and earn a living.

Pickpockets, scam artists are all just trying to make a living too.

Autoblogs with ads are just people running around in the marketplace yelling randomly and getting paid for it. They aren't providing anything.

All the domain Gods are Yelling about Traffic.. why? because they don't know anything else. Traffic has ZERO value if it's on a road to nowhere.

It's irritating if you are a "consumer" to be bombarded by uncontrolled tons of marketing. But if you are in a community of people who are on the same boat trying to make money, it's probably like killing your competitor so you're the only one left standing. You are earning not because you have good talented stuffs, but because you are supporting the Google Police to haul those crap competitors to jail and not see the light of day.

This doesn't make sense to me. You seem to want Google to be ok with irritating consumers from which I infer you are ok irritating consumers.

If thats what you want then ok.

As I say.... you're $8 from registering ANY .com you want and getting into the Free Market and competing with Google however you want on the Internet space.