C, C++, Visual Basic, or Java?

[thetzfreak]

Hey, guys! You might know this already, but I've been learning some programming lately (with AutoIt), but it's not a top-of-the-line programming language. Right now, I am VERY interested to get some real programming knowledge to make some REAL crazy stuff, but I don't know which language to learn. I want you guys helping me out on choosing. And to do this, I have some questions.

What is the difference between C and C++? Are they any good to learn? Maybe to choose which programming language I want depends on what type of programming I'm going to do. If so, what are the main uses for each language? I'm really interested in making real professional programs/tools in the future, like so many found on download.com, and I'm not that interested in making games.

I also heard from one friend of mine that he tried a little Visual Basic, and that it was REALLY bad to learn, that it was like trash. There were too many unnecessary and extra things to put in the code. He said he heard from college students that VB and C++ weren't really good, and that if I wanted to do some REAL programming, go on to Java.

So, what are your thoughts for all of these languages? There are some languages that I missed, I think, but they're not that popular.

*This thread was posted using the NEW NamePros Thread Maker*

 

[Amnezia]

Learn C and then Java, or if you cant be bothered to learn C then just do Java. Visual basic isnt hard to learn at all, its a very interface orientated language. If your friend thinks that VB is unecessarily fussy tell him to learn C, you have to define EVERYTHING! Once you've got a good knowlegde of C most languages are pretty easy to pick up.

 

[thetzfreak]

Wow, thanks a lot for that! That really helped! But also, since you were talking about C, what is the difference between C and C++?

 

[Amnezia]

I never really learnt C++ I think its better for creating GUIs than C. I use java for every thing now, i prefer it to C.

 

[RageD]

I use C & C++ & never really learned VB... But how much does the compiler for VB cost, & where can I find it?

-Thanks

-RageD

btw I dont know the big difference between C & C++, but C++ is better for Windows API & such...

 

[GeneCosta]

C++ or Visual Basic is the best, in my opinion. Java is pretty hard to work around, and I've rarely seen Java programs that match Visual Basic/C/C++ programs.

 

[thetzfreak]

Hehe, you guys are saying that "VB or C++" would be the best, but why? Easy to use? Also, are they both able to make the same things? Is one of them better for one type of program, while another for another type? Maybe they can be used for the exact same thing...

Also, since I'm kinda new to all these languages, I want to know how to actually write programs with them. Do I need to buy a special program for each one? I think I know that you have to buy a program for VB, but what about C++? I need to buy a program for it? And same for Java?

Thanks a lot for your time guys.

 

[yeppers]

G'day thetzfreak,

IMHO you should learn C++... VB is VERY limited compared to other programming languages and also has some dependencie problems. C++ is a great windows based native code that'll allow you to do pretty much anything you want to do on a computer running windows.

I have learned Visual Basic to its full extent and i can tell you that unless you want to make a pretty primitive program, go with something else like C or C++.

VB is EASY AS ANYTHING to learn, almost like talking to another person lol.

C++ is harder but will give you ten thousand times that amount of control you'll need.

C++ has the capabilities to make all those very expensive programs out there and 3d games, burning software etc etc. BUT not to say that its easy, youll hav a lot of work to do to get that far :D. VB will not allow you to do that at all.

Hope that helps,
Billy.

 

[ignat]

I've been programming C, C++, and Java. In my personal oppinion, Java will soon become absolete and C and C++ are pretty rough to get the gyst of at first. If you want to make a powerful web or desktop application with little coding, great-looking interface, try C#. Microsoft's .NET is becomming pretty popular nowadays. You can get the C# Beta release here: http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/get/ for free. On the other hand if you'd have to chose between VB, C, and C++ go with VB. Hope this helps.

 

[moondog]

I know all four languages (plus a few more), and here is my 2 cents.

VB is what is called a "Rapid Application Development Language".

Basic is a fairly easy language to learn. The Visual part just refers to a lot of out of the box GUI controls like list boxes, command buttons, etc.

VB is pretty easy to learn and a nice language to start with to learn.

C is powerful, but outdated. C is used a lot on Unix / Linux systems.

C++ is more GUI-oriented, plus C++ makes a lot more use of object-oriented programming (OOP).


Which one to learn depends on your objectives. If you are not comfortable in your coding ability, then I would recommend Visual Basic. You can create nice Windows applications in Visual Basic, but it does have limitations. If you want to start getting fancy with VB and interacting with databases and whatnot, it can get tricky. However, VB is a good language to get your feet wet with. It will introduce you to common programming techniques that are valuable across any coding language. The only real practical places where VB is used is in an office setting when a company needs an application developed for in-house use. I do not see a lot of demand for VB coders, nor do I see a lot of code distributed that is written in VB.

As for C / C++ / Java, I would not take any of these on as a first language. One of my professors once said of C: "If you want to hang yourself, C will not only let you, but it will make sure everybody is there to watch." This is true.

C/C++ can be difficult to master. There are a lot of advanced concepts that need mastered before you can move on to a language like Java. Java is an object-oriented coding language (OOP). OOP required a solid base of knowledge before you can grasp the concepts (normally).

As for which to go with first, I would recommend VB, then C. If you want to skip VB, then go to C. I would not recommend jumping straight to C++ or Java until you have done C. Also, once you know C, there are a LOT of similar languages that you can pick up easily such as JavaScript, PERL, PHP, and such. You can see how a lot of languages were derived from each other.


Happy coding.

-Bob

 

[thetzfreak]

Wow, thanks a lot guys, for all of that! That really made me think hard! But, I've come to my conclusions of what I want to do.

I talked to my dad about it, and he has been a programmer since... a long time ago. He is REALLY professional at it. Unfortunately, he went out of the programming business 2 years ago Anyway, here is what I learned (and this can help in your decisions, too).

He has learned all of these languages I mentioned and here is what he thinks:
Visual Basic is the best one to start with (like some of you said). It is the simplest to learn, but is very, VERY limited to what it can do. However, if one has learned VB, it is the best to go on to different languages; it's a great "starter."

Java - The BEST programming language out there! He said that it does not have ANY limits whatsoever. It is not that hard, and can be used for linux/unix and windows. He was doing some projects for companies ALONE! He said most people have a couple or more to do something, but in his case, using Java was the best thing he could have done. Plus, his work was done at more than 400% the time that it would take to do it with C++.

C++/C = trash. The WORST programming languages out there. He first was learning C++, and he said that it was nearly IMPOSSIBLE to use them. There were bugs EVERYwhere, and all real programmers knew that. People spent days/weeks/even month just searching for all the bugs that were in there. He said that THAT project which he did with Java would have taken literally ten times longer to make (and this isn't just his opinion; EVERY professional programmer he worked with thought the same).

It turns out that people fed up with C++ went out of their way to make Java, and they did a wonderful job. And, of course, they made it compatible with linux.

So, my final decision is: Start with VB, then go on to Java. Everything else sucks

 

[ignat]

You can't really say that everything else sucks just because it's harder. Software written properly in C++ operates WAY faster than Java could ever handle. If you are a beginner, Java is a good choice for small porams or games, but if you plan to be serious about programming C++ has no equals. It's the Everest of programming languages. Powerful, but tough to conquer.

 

[thetzfreak]

You can't really say that everything else sucks just because it's harder. Software written properly in C++ operates WAY faster than Java could ever handle. If you are a beginner, Java is a good choice for small porams or games, but if you plan to be serious about programming C++ has no equals. It's the Everest of programming languages. Powerful, but tough to conquer.

No - I completely dissagree with you, no offense.

First of all, I didn't say C++ was harder, I said it has too many faults that cause too many problems.

Second of all, Java is made for anything C++ can do; they are both equal to what they can do (which is a LOT). However, you can do it with Java MUCH easier and MUCH faster. My dad had them both tried out, along with his friends and a lot of other people that agree. He said he completed one project literally ten times as fast as if he would have done it with C++. And, he wasn't making some small little program... he was doing some serious work for a real-time company. And my dad doesn't make this stuff up either lol.

 

[zaros64]

can you make programs with Java or just web apps?
I am learning VB atm but need SP2 to use it so I will download that

 

[thetzfreak]

can you make programs with Java or just web apps?
I am learning VB atm but need SP2 to use it so I will download that

Java is used for both internet and programs. What my dad was doing wasn't anything for internet... C++ and Java can both make some serious stuff... (but I think Java can do MUCH more )

 

[zaros64]

where can I get Visual Basic? and where can I learn to make Java? and what files are needed for Java etc,etc...

anyways thetzfreak you got me excited.. what software(S) did your dad make?

cheers

 

[ignat]

No - I completely dissagree with you, no offense.

First of all, I didn't say C++ was harder, I said it has too many faults that cause too many problems.

Second of all, Java is made for anything C++ can do; they are both equal to what they can do (which is a LOT). However, you can do it with Java MUCH easier and MUCH faster. My dad had them both tried out, along with his friends and a lot of other people that agree. He said he completed one project literally ten times as fast as if he would have done it with C++. And, he wasn't making some small little program... he was doing some serious work for a real-time company. And my dad doesn't make this stuff up either lol.

I guess this can lead to one of those never ending arguments about which programming language is better. The best thing to do is for you to try and play around with languages so that you can formulate your own healthy oppinion on which one fits your needs best. So go ahead and dabble. Maybe someday you'll learn to love C++ the way i do and then the world is yours to code. And trust me if Java could do much more than C++, Windows, Visual Studio and all other goodies would be written in it. They are not though

 

[Dead Eye]

Im only just getting into C++ but it seems that has A LOT of power, it just takes a long time to code being that you need to define everything. VB I never really got along with, but I am deffiantely thinking about going back to it.

Java went the same way as VB, I had no real use for it and couldnt see its advantages (and still cant really). PHP was always best for me, since I do a lot more Web Based programming than anything else.

I think ill have to see what Java is like, then come back and compare it to C++. As for C, ive been told its a lot better to learn C++. If you learn C and want to move on to C++ you have to 'unlearn' everything you know and start from scratch, whereas C++ can do almost everything C can do (as far as I know).

 

[thetzfreak]

I guess this can lead to one of those never ending arguments about which programming language is better. The best thing to do is for you to try and play around with languages so that you can formulate your own healthy oppinion on which one fits your needs best. So go ahead and dabble. Maybe someday you'll learn to love C++ the way i do and then the world is yours to code. And trust me if Java could do much more than C++, Windows, Visual Studio and all other goodies would be written in it. They are not though

Many things are written in Java
Im only just getting into C++ but it seems that has A LOT of power, it just takes a long time to code being that you need to define everything. VB I never really got along with, but I am deffiantely thinking about going back to it.

Java went the same way as VB, I had no real use for it and couldnt see its advantages (and still cant really). PHP was always best for me, since I do a lot more Web Based programming than anything else.

I think ill have to see what Java is like, then come back and compare it to C++. As for C, ive been told its a lot better to learn C++. If you learn C and want to move on to C++ you have to 'unlearn' everything you know and start from scratch, whereas C++ can do almost everything C can do (as far as I know).

Yep, you should go to Java Hehe, but I'm still gonna try everything out, so I'll see how it goes in my own opinion. ignat is right on that point

where can I get Visual Basic? and where can I learn to make Java? and what files are needed for Java etc,etc...

anyways thetzfreak you got me excited.. what software(S) did your dad make?

cheers

They are offering a free beta version of Virtual Studio at the microsoft website. Or, you can can just one language from the pack like I did I just got the express version of visual basic 2005. Check it out here:
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/

Just search the internet to learn java I'm not quite there yet hehe... but my dad said something about using the Java Virtual Machine. I'm downloading it right now

Well, my dad did a LOT of project, anywhere from getting quieries from databases, all the way to a huge project of creating a web-based system to control DSL service for a telecom company. All the company had to do was sit at any of their computers and control the DSL system.

Hope that helped

EDIT: was downloading the wrong thing... it turns out something weird happened to java virtual machine... don't know what. Just search for "java compiler" on google.

 

[ignat]

JCreator is your best bet for a java IDE and compiler. It's free for hobbiests and already comes with the latest Java SDK. All you have to do is run JCreator install and it will do everything else. Just google JCreator to get to their homepage. C++ RULES