Bin Laden Dead?

[dgridley]

Some news services are reporting the possibility that Bin Laden died (unconfirmed) of typhoid August 23rd in Pakistan..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/23/terror/main2035766.shtml

 

[labrocca]

I love the armchair tacticians and analysts. You guys should talk to people with first-hand knowledge. 99% of the military people I have spoken to say things are going fairly well in Iraq. While there are insurgents...the MAJORITY of people want us there and don't want us to leave. Most polls agree on this as well.

What is done is done...we are there...it's a mission now that can't be walked away from. Get over it and support the effort. Liberals have been whining and singing the same old song for years now with little to no effect on actual politics. It didn't help the Dems win the 04 election and it certainly won't help you win the 08 one either. The American people want security and strength not cut and run.

 

[dgridley]

My thought is because they know once we leave, there will just be someone else to rush in and fill the gap, someone potentially much worse. That section of the world has a long history of instability.

I'm with you for the most part.. now that we've committed, we need to finish what we started and re-stabilize the area. THEN get out (easier said then done).. I don't think we had much business going over there in the first place.. there are more pressing domestic issues IMO.

the MAJORITY of people want us there and don't want us to leave. Most polls agree on this as well.

 

[.X.]

Based on what?
What did Clinton fail to do during his presidency?
Oh wait, this is just a foolish comment by someone who can't think outside the right wing agenda.




What does the media have to do with anything?
When will you bush apologizers figure out that your blame the media campaign isn't working?

I don't need the media to tell me that after 5 years Bin Laden is still free to plot more terrorist acts against the West.

It's more of...what did clinton do when he was president...Not a whole lot...The house and senate were majority republican..so he couldn't really do squat...that was a great thing...because he could have screwed my country up bad ...had it been visa vera....But he did have the chance to take bin laden out.....they were going to hand bin laden to clinton on a plate...and he refused....then look what happened....look what bin laden and his taliban did....Then look at what clinton did.....Had sexual relations in the white house with monica lewinsky.....we are talking about a president that had sexual relations while in marraige......In the most sacred white house.....That goes beyond unethical....Therefore making clinton a turd sniffer...and a betrayer to my country imo.

 

[drifta]

^ lol

 

[HHDomains]

I love the armchair tacticians and analysts. You guys should talk to people with first-hand knowledge. 99% of the military people I have spoken to say things are going fairly well in Iraq. While there are insurgents...the MAJORITY of people want us there and don't want us to leave. Most polls agree on this as well.

What is done is done...we are there...it's a mission now that can't be walked away from. Get over it and support the effort. Liberals have been whining and singing the same old song for years now with little to no effect on actual politics. It didn't help the Dems win the 04 election and it certainly won't help you win the 08 one either. The American people want security and strength not cut and run.

From 2004.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm
"Only a third of the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their country is doing more good than harm, and a solid majority support an immediate military pullout even though they fear that could put them in greater danger"

From 2005
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2005/01/29/polls_show_iraqis_want_us_troops_out.html
"Majorities of Iraq's Sunni Arabs (82%) and Shiites (69%) favor U.S. forces withdrawing either immediately or after an elected government is in place," according to a new Zogby Poll.

The Washington Post notes similar surveys: "Public opinion polls show 80 percent want the Americans out of their country. In the election campaign, one common theme among candidates was the withdrawal of occupying forces."


From 2006
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/home_page/165.php?nid=&id=&pnt=165&lb=hmpg2
A new poll of the Iraqi public finds that a large majority of Iraqis think the US plans to maintain bases in Iraq permanently, even if the newly elected government asks the US to leave. A large majority favors setting a timeline for the withdrawal of US forces, though this majority divides over whether the timeline should be over a period of six months or two years. Nearly half of Iraqis approve of attacks on US-led forces—including nine out of 10 Sunnis. Most Iraqis believe that many aspects of their lives will improve once the US-led forces leave, but are nonetheless uncertain that Iraqi security forces are ready to stand on their own.

I'm sure your 99% statistic is incredibly scientific and accurate but the facts speak differently.
What the American people want is real leadership and not stupid platitudes and talking points like "cut and run"

 

[CrazyTech]

What the American people want is real leadership and not stupid platitudes and talking points like "cut and run"

Excuse me, but I will be damned if I let a Canadian tell me what my opinion is or is not and what my fellow Americans want or don't want. Most of the polls you rely on up there in Canada come from the same polling outfits that were positive from their results that Kerry was going to win the last election fairly comfortably. So sure, let's talk about the accuracy of a Canadian's opinion about American politics.

 

[dgridley]

I think we need to be more open to the way America is often perceived, particularly by such close neighbors.

The Earth occupies a finite amount of space.. we all share it.

Excuse me, but I will be damned if I let a Canadian tell me what my opinion is or is not and what my fellow Americans want or don't want. Most of the polls you rely on up there in Canada come from the same polling outfits that were positive from their results that Kerry was going to win the last election fairly comfortably. So sure, let's talk about the accuracy of a Canadian's opinion about American politics.

 

[HHDomains]

Excuse me, but I will be damned if I let a Canadian tell me what my opinion is or is not and what my fellow Americans want or don't want. Most of the polls you rely on up there in Canada come from the same polling outfits that were positive from their results that Kerry was going to win the last election fairly comfortably. So sure, let's talk about the accuracy of a Canadian's opinion about American politics.

If you dispute the results of the polls I posted then post some evidence to the contrary.
I care very little what you would like to hear from a Canadian. Unfortunately some of you all too often refuse to hear the truth and that is why you are in the position you are currently in. A failed foreign policy that is responsible for global insecurity, terrorist rates multiplying times 3 every year, a failed war in Iraq, a failed war in Afghanistan and soon to be a failed war in Iran no doubt.

Like I said, if you question my accuracy then produce some evidence instead of thumping your chest and blowing hot air.

 

[.X.]

i don't have a problem when people from other countries join in a thread pertaining to the US....that is...when they know what the hell they are talking about...And in the case of this thread...they don't

If you dispute the results of the polls I posted then post some evidence to the contrary.
I care very little what you would like to hear from a Canadian. Unfortunately some of you all too often refuse to hear the truth and that is why you are in the position you are currently in. A failed foreign policy that is responsible for global insecurity, terrorist rates multiplying times 3 every year, a failed war in Iraq, a failed war in Afghanistan and soon to be a failed war in Iran no doubt.

Like I said, if you question my accuracy then produce some evidence instead of thumping your chest and blowing hot air.

I know the fricken truth...I live in the US....I see it..smell it...breath it..live it..i further more was a US marine in desert storm...I know WTF is going on here.

 

[CrazyTech]

I think we need to be more open to the way America is often perceived, particularly by such close neighbors.

That's fine. However, in this case it's someone from another country trying to tell me what my fellow Americans and myself think - which is a completely different matter. I don't lecture HH on Canadian politics, nor do I tell them what he or any Canadian should think or does think.

If you dispute the results of the polls I posted then post some evidence to the contrary.

I refute polls in general. I don't listen to them because time and again when it comes crunch time results differ. Polls are only so good and I've said that about any poll ever put in front of me.

Like I said, if you question my accuracy then produce some evidence instead of thumping your chest and blowing hot air.

The pot calling the kettle black if I ever did hear it. Facts are often what you make of them, especially in your case.

These statements are just bristling with facts and modesty:

Oh wait, this is just a foolish comment by someone who can't think outside the right wing agenda.

What the American people want is real leadership and not stupid platitudes and talking points like "cut and run"

Some wide generalizations to draw from a few polls I think, unless, you know something about my country that I don't up there in Canada.

 

[HHDomains]

I know the fricken truth...I live in the US....I see it..smell it...breath it..live it..i further more was a US marine in desert storm...I know WTF is going on here.

Your posts look more like a child's posting then a veteran.
Perhaps you have a little post combat syndrome?
I somehow doubt you are telling the truth about your distinguished service.

If you are so in tune with what is going on then cut the BS and prove me wrong. Give me some evidence.
Just flapping your gums and talking BS is of no use.

What have you got that in any way contradicts what I have said?

Some wide generalizations to draw from a few polls I think, unless, you know something about my country that I don't up there in Canada.

Denver, I respect you and I would probably even like you if we were ever to meet, but you still haven't posted anything to dispute what I have said.
My opinions are based on American media, American websites and comments from American politicians and military people.

I have lived and worked in the US. I have been to the US dozens of times. You don't have to live in a place to know what is going on, in fact many times an outside looking in point of view is far clearer.

It's not enough just to say you don't accept statements because they come from a Canadian.

 

[dgridley]

Let's both sides keep this from finger pointing and inferences please.. let's discuss and play nice, all of us..

Anyone who has facts is welcome to present them

 

[labrocca]

Those polls HHdomains are very few iraqies...the 2006 poll was just 1150 people. Not anywhere near what I would feel properly done. The 2004 one was just 3000 people..again..pretty crappy. Polls are worthless. They can be rigged and slighted to make sure that the results go their way. Like I said...I have spoken first hand to at least 10 military people..not one has said we should pull out. They said that the vast majority of iraqies want us there. I can only speak from their first-hand experience not some crap poll.

http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=1397

 

[HHDomains]

It's funny how people hate polls until they support what they think should be true.

The fact that you disagree with the polls doesn't mean that they are inaccurate.
The number of people polled is far more by percentage than many polls taken in the US and other places that inevitably turn out to be very, very reliable.

Again, prove me wrong.
Give me some sort of source that would deny the results of these polls.
Give me some sort of proof that the polls are inaccurate?

 

[dgridley]

I agree polls can be slanted to reflect any view, pro or con.. all have to be taken with a grain of salt.

I don't doubt the Iraqi people in general want us there now, but did they want us there initially? I personally don't think they did.. anymore than the American people would want a similar situation imposed upon them.

Anyway, this whole thread has stopped being about Bin Laden and converted to a discussion of US/Iraqi foreign policies.

Let's see if we can get back on topic..

 

[labrocca]

http://www.zogby.com/NEWS/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

I like to listen to US troops that are actually there or have been there. While most feel we should start withdrawing. This is an excellent poll because the questions are comprehensive not just encircling one subject. The polll was conducted from only 900+ troops though and as I stated about your polls...not accurate enough imho.

 

[HHDomains]

http://www.zogby.com/NEWS/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

I like to listen to US troops that are actually there or have been there. While most feel we should start withdrawing. This is an excellent poll because the questions are comprehensive not just encircling one subject. The polll was conducted from only 900+ troops though and as I stated about your polls...not accurate enough imho.

"Almost 90% (of the troops) think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11"

Does this not disturb you at all???????????
Saddam had NO role in 911. The US government even admits that. George Bush even admits that.

Does it not bother you that you have thousands of troops dying on a false premise?

"An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and more than one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows."

Do you also agree with the troops that the US should leave Iraq within the next year?
Because that is not what your current government believes.

 

[.X.]

Your posts look more like a child's posting then a veteran.
Perhaps you have a little post combat syndrome?
I somehow doubt you are telling the truth about your distinguished service.

If you are so in tune with what is going on then cut the BS and prove me wrong. Give me some evidence.
Just flapping your gums and talking BS is of no use.

What have you got that in any way contradicts what I have said?




Denver, I respect you and I would probably even like you if we were ever to meet, but you still haven't posted anything to dispute what I have said.
My opinions are based on American media, American websites and comments from American politicians and military people.

I have lived and worked in the US. I have been to the US dozens of times. You don't have to live in a place to know what is going on, in fact many times an outside looking in point of view is far clearer.

It's not enough just to say you don't accept statements because they come from a Canadian.

I don't give a crap what you think personally....I don't have anything to prove....Just because i disagree with you...doesn't mean i am trying to sling mud on you....because i am not...i am simply voicing my opinion...and stating some facts...These threads always end up in this kind of mess here...I don't think they are totally unhealthy for the forum...but when it starts getting personal...it is no longer a productive discussion imo...so i am outta this thread.

 

[HHDomains]

I don't give a crap what you think personally....I don't have anything to prove....Just because i disagree with you...doesn't mean i am trying to sling mud on you....because i am not...i am simply voicing my opinion...and stating some facts...These threads always end up in this kind of mess here...I don't think they are totally unhealthy for the forum...but when it starts getting personal...it is no longer a productive discussion imo...so i am outta this thread.

What facts have you stated? None.
Don't whine about threads deteriorating when you are the problem. You make an absurd statement about a former president with absolutely nothing to back it up and you want to be taken seriously? I think not.

 

[Jeff]

Thanks for wrapping up your final thoughts on the subject here, friends ... :talk:

Goodnight for now.
-Jeff