UDRP BC30.com UDRP lost by NamePros Member

[Silentptnr]

Sorry to read that Rob Monster lost a domain and a payday. I learned from this.

https://domaingang.com/domain-law/bc30-com-udrp-what-not-to-do-when-negotiating-a-domain-sale/

Let's discuss this.

I personally have never been involved in a udrp case, but naturally I've contemplated my plan if I ever am.

 

[Ategy]

Wow guys .. look .. I'll be the first to say that ICANN needs to clean up and standardise what happens to domains after expiration. There should be rules about minimum grace periods, blackouts between unintended ownership, standards for auctioning expired domains, etc etc. I'd be 100% for that.

HOWEVER .. under the current rules @Rob Monster has done nothing wrong.

Beyond that it's not even a particularly great domain .. I personally ignore LLNN domains. So I really don't see the issue here .. the original owner let it drop .. but Rob saw something in it and renewed it himself for 8 years and then got lucky with a potential buyer. It's really that simple.

I can’t even believe @Rob Monster admitted it in this thread, publicly. Look back. Epik takes expired domains for themselves.

They are allowed to do what they want with expired domains as long as they give the original owner minimum notices and time to renew (which was done here).

So the entire thread here revolves around a udrp for a domain that @Rob Monster didn't pay for. Instead, he took it from a customer at epik because he had access to the back end of his website.

You're really twisting things with semantics here .. of course he paid for the domain .. he paid the same $7.85 a year to Verisign that all registrars pay for domains. By paying verisign for an abandoned domain, he's the owner .. it's really that simple. You might not like the process .. you might want there to be different rules in place .. but given the current existing rules he did absolutely nothing wrong. In fact .. by holding the domain himself, he actually gave the original owner an extra 11 months opportunity to reclaim it.

It’s in the thread if you read it. Epik took the domain behind the scenes. They didn’t buy it.
When is the last time you got a free domain? Case closed

Again .. not free .. same price as every .com domain!

... but the original owner (Mike) would have been able to recover his domain for the next one year. Since we're talking eight years later, I'm wondering if Mike would still able allowed to recover the domain? Or if there's a hard line in one year after, but given Epik still owns the domain, I don't think it's unreasonable for the original owner to ask to recover his domain

Why? Do you have the obligation of giving a domain back to the original who let it expire 8 years ago? He had an extra 11 months more than most people get. Starting 11 months prior to the last day the original owner could have reclaimed it, Rob paid Verisign for the domain .. and every year after that.

Digressing back to @Keith point, if the acquisition price of BC30 was $0. Than this enture thread here revolves around a UDRP for a domain that came with a $0 acquisition fee minus renewal fee's.

How is that relevant .. I grab amazing domains at $5-$11 closeout that I resell all over the 4-figure spectrum .. acquisition price should have ZERO relevance on UDRPs .. in fact .. if it did it would be an EXTREMELY bad thing for domainer investors who also invest TIME which wouldn't be included in any such calculations.

NOTE!!! WE KEPT IT RATHER THAN SENDING IT THROUGH THE EXPIRY STREAM. That equals free in my book and an abuse via the registrar, Epik.

On Day 36 of expiry, we send domains to Snapnames.

It did go through the stream .. anybody had a chance to grab it when it went to SnapNames on day 36!

So it’s clear, they kept it, it was not paid for. If Epik wanted the domain they should’ve let it drop and competed with you and I on the open market.

Again .. he did pay verisign for it. And he's 100% allowed to renew and keep the domains himself .. just like how GoDaddy resells our expired domains and keeps 100% of the profits! Make no mistake .. while it might not be exactly that legally, GoDaddy does take all of our expired domains and sells them for themselves .. exactly what you're "accusing" Rob of doing here.

What if this was a LL .com? People would hit the roof. But it’s the principle of the matter. Theft is theft.

The original owner let it expire ... how is that theft? Do you accuse GoDaddy of stealing your expired domains when they put them through their expired auctions? It's the same thing. Yes I agree ICANN should institute better rules and guidelines, but there is absolutely nothing against the current rules here.

Please show us emails from Mike where he said he didn’t intend to drop BC30. Otherwise admit that Epik used their position as registrar to take ownership of an expired domain, with the intent to profit.

By not responding to the 7 emails and then by not renewing the domain that 100% shows intention. It's absurd to expect all registrars all over the world to make personal assurances that indeed the owners of the 100,000+ domains that expire every day actually "intended" to let them drop. Seriously? The email notification system is pretty solid and fair. Plus in this case the original owner had an extra year.

Please show us emails from Mike where he said he didn’t intend to drop BC30. Otherwise admit that Epik used their position as registrar to take ownership of an expired domain, with the intent to profit.

Again .. everything here is moot .. who cares if he intended to drop it or not .. Rob gave him an extra 11 months to reclaim it .. on top of the 7 other email notices!

Rob can’t tell us why he held this specific domain for this specific customer. Maybe the customer died and the family contacted Epik? Nah. Tell us why you just had to hold BC30.com for yourself!

Again .. who cares! It's not relevant in any way. He probably saw some potential value in it so kept it aside for a year for the original owner. Then after he kept renewing it for himself personally specifically for the same reason he originally saw value in it.

A concern might be the registrant (Mike) didn't get the notice.

How is that something Rob/Epik should be responsible for? They sent out 7 emails! Did you want them to send an 8th? lol .. It's pretty clear the original owner very likely simply no longer wanted to renew the domain. Who cares what the reason was .. it's not relevant in any way as long as he got his warnings/notifications.

You didn’t buy anything. “we kept it”.
Those were your words, not mine. Are you changing your story?

He meant it in the same way you "keep" your own domains each year. Rob paid all the renewal fees all along .. most importantly in that first year after the original owner let the domain expire!


I really want to stress to you all that nobody should ever be forced to justify their reasons for owning a domain. If we actually had to defend the reasons of our ownership of domains that would be legally disastrous for domainers. We buy domains because we want to own it .. period. Exclamation points !!! I can't understate how bad that would be for all of us.

 

[Keith]

I really want to stress to you all that nobody should ever be forced to justify their reasons for owning a domain. If we actually had to defend the reasons of our ownership of domains that would be legally disastrous for domainers. We buy domains because we want to own it .. period. Exclamation points !!! I can't understate how bad that would be for all of us.

You don’t have to justify your purchases, unless you operate a registry and scoop customer’s expired domains into your portfolio. Then, as if skimming isn’t good enough, you come to Namepros to bitch about a udrp from a domain you cherry picked.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Why? Do you have the obligation of giving a domain back to the original who let it expire 8 years ago? He had an extra 11 months more than most people get.

1. I have never received an email from my domain registrar, saying they're holding my domain for me, for one year, at a fee of $199. Have you received a email like this or is it atypical?
2. Given that it seems to be atypical, <and Rob's statement about the domain being available for one year at a fixed price of $199, if we have the domain> my comment towards an extra 8 years was based on this atypical acquisition, doubling down on the "if we have the domain" aspect, since they do actually have the domain, do you really find it unreasonable for Mike to simply ask if the one year courtesy could be extended given Epik still has the domain.
3. I'm not a registrar. Do you think registrars and registrants have the same obligations?

How is that relevant .. I grab amazing domains at $5-$11 closeout that I resell all over the 4-figure spectrum .. acquisition price should have ZERO relevance on UDRPs ..

Acquiring for $5 to $11 in a competitive process is different than acquiring a domain for $0 in an uncompetitive process.

How is that something Rob/Epik should be responsible for? They sent out 7 emails! Did you want them to send an 8th? lol .. It's pretty clear the original owner very likely simply no longer wanted to renew the domain.

A registrar acquisition occurred the same month the domain was registered. Epik or DropWeek.com had the responsibilities of informing the customer. The customer may have been aware of DropWeeks renewal practices, but not of Epiks.

It is not clear that the original owner very likely no longer wanted to renew this domain. That is an assumption. It is also not clear if the domain owner ever received the renewal emails. Even though it might be very clear the emails were sent. See the renewal of Sofia.com, where the owner wasn't receiving renewal emails.

 

[Ategy]

@Keith .. in all fairness .. those are two very different and distinct things. You may not like it, but it is 100% within every registrar's current rights to scoop or skim or whatever any expired domain FOR ANY REASON!

AS LONG AS the original owner has been given a minimum of fair warnings and notices. So as long as Epik sent the notices, then there is NOTHING wrong here. You might not like the rules .. but that's issues you need to take up with ICANN about changing it for ALL registrars.

Remember .. most registrars take ALL their clients expired domains and resell them FOR PROFIT at GoDaddy Auctions or NameJet, etc etc .. there is nothing different here other than appearance.

 

[Keith]

@Keith .. in all fairness .. those are two very different and distinct things. You may not like it, but it is 100% within every registrar's current rights to scoop or skim or whatever any expired domain FOR ANY REASON!

AS LONG AS the original owner has been given a minimum of fair warnings and notices. So as long as Epik sent the notices, then there is NOTHING wrong here. You might not like the rules .. but that's issues you need to take up with ICANN about changing it for ALL registrars.

Remember .. most registrars take ALL their clients expired domains and resell them FOR PROFIT at GoDaddy Auctions or NameJet, etc etc .. there is nothing different here other than appearance.

Not all registrars hold clients domains for a year beyond expiry and pawn it off as good faith. In fact, none do, except Epik.

No registrars come to this forum crying about a udrp because of domains they’ve acquired with no outside competition, except Epik.

Epik.com sucks and operates in bad faith. That’s my position on the matter. Don’t like it? Don’t cry out to the masses.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

No registrars come to this forum crying about a udrp because of domains they’ve acquired with no outside competition, except Epik.

By crying, (removing your bias) did you mean to say raising awareness?

It's hard to argue that this thread hasn't:

• Raised awareness about the UDRP Process
• Provided insight to how registrars acquire domains

 

[Samer]

Not all registrars hold clients domains for a year beyond expiry and pawn it off as good faith. In fact, none do, except Epik.

No registrars come to this forum crying about a udrp because of domains they’ve acquired with no outside competition, except Epik.

Epik.com sucks and operates in bad faith. That’s my position on the matter. Don’t like it? Don’t cry out to the masses.

Really? I value $0 (but kno how much it worth)

Only bad faith is the GD -HD relationship.
inflating prices so high should be illegal
but i digress... like your “bad faith” crap...

Hope Rob keeps the name

Samer

 

[HotKey]

That’s my position on the matter. Don’t like it? Don’t cry out to the masses.

Umm.. do as I say, not as I do?

 

[Ategy]

I have never received an email from my domain registrar, saying they're holding my domain for me, for one year, at a fee of $199. Have you received a email like this or is it atypical?

How is this relevant in any way? It's an extra. the only thing that actually matters here is if the right number of emails were sent.

Given that it seems to be atypical, <and Rob's statement about the domain being available for one year at a fixed price of $199, if we have the domain> my comment towards an extra 8 years was based on this atypical acquisition, doubling down on the "if we have the domain" aspect, since they do actually have the domain, do you really find it unreasonable for Mike to simply ask if the one year courtesy could be extended given Epik still has the domain.

Come on .. this is really silly. Obviously Rob "could" sell it back to him at a fair price .. but there is no obligation at all. Most importantly, you and @Keith keep conveniently leaving out the fact the original owner DID NOT RENEW the domain. I don't understand how you both think it's unreasonable for a registrar to infer that an original owner does not want to keep their domain by any other metric than the very simple fact they chose NOT TO RENEW THE DOMAIN! lol

I'm not a registrar. Do you think registrars and registrants have the same obligations?

After 8 years .. yes! lol .. In fact .. even the first year is a BONUS. But after the initial grace periods (registrar + registry) no registrar is obligated to do anything. Everything else is a friendly extra.

Acquiring for $5 to $11 in a competitive process is different than acquiring a domain for $0 in an uncompetitive process.

The domain was available to ANYBODY on day 36 after it expired .. nobody took it. Again .. it's not some incredible domain. As far as I know there's very little value in LLNN domains aside from the rare ones with a strong pinyin + strong Chinese number combination.

VERY IMPORTANT: Every single day GoDaddy take 50,000 domains for $0 through an uncompetitive process and then auction them away for profit. It's EXACTLY the same thing. You may not like it .. but registrars are allowed to do it FOR ANY REASON. If you were angry at ALL registrars I would understand you as I myself think industry level changes should be made regarding expired domains. But to just pick this one random domain and attack Epik/Rob for it is just ludicrous .. go start a separate thread about ALL registrars .. and against ICANN's current rules! I'd definitely get involved and even support some changes. But this is just a personal attack on a registrar that did NOTHING WRONG and NOTHING AGAINST THE CURRENT RULES!

A registrar acquisition occurred the same month the domain was registered. Epik or DropWeek.com had the responsibilities of informing the customer. The customer may have been aware of DropWeeks renewal practices, but not of Epiks.

Again .. now you're just being ridiculous. Do you have proof the customers of the acquired registrar weren't informed of the change of ownership? lol .. C'mon .. really. Show me your proof.

It is not clear that the original owner very likely no longer wanted to renew this domain. That is an assumption. It is also not clear if the domain owner ever received the renewal emails. It might be clear they were sent. See the renewal of Sofia.com, where the owner wasn't receiving renewal emails.

Is this really your issue? Have you asked GoDaddy for proof of all the emails they're supposed to send out for each of the 50,000 expired domains they auction EVERY DAY ??? lol .. Seriously .. if you don't have proof the emails were not sent, then this is a very unfair and biased witch hunt from a couple of people who can't seem to accept that NOTHING happened against the rules here .. NOTHING! If you don't like the current rules .. then fight to change them for ALL expiring domains .. but don't focus on one single domain and make false claims it's any different from any other.


Not only that .. but of the one out of almost ALL registrars who profit from expired domains, you guys choose to attack the registrar that created a system that will give us back 91% of profits from our expired domains! I mean seriously guys! I've called out Rob on a few things in the past .. but this attack on him is just absurd when he has done NOTHING against the rules .. and NOTHING differently than most other registrars who profit from ALL our expired domains (or at least the ones good enough to get a bit .. lol).

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Most importantly, you and @Keith keep conveniently leaving out the fact the original owner DID NOT RENEW the domain. I don't understand how you both think it's unreasonable for a registrar to infer that an original owner does not want to keep their domain by any other metric than the very simple fact they chose NOT TO RENEW THE DOMAIN! lol

Rather than wasting time writing ill-researched novels, CAPITALIZING and bolding, how about taking the time to read about the renewal of Sofia.com, where you'll find many reasons why a original owner might not have renewed a domain, and where the fact of not renewing a domain, is not the only metric to use when deciding if the owner intended to keep or delete their domain.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/ho...dy-notifying-a-domain-owner-to-renew.1061565/

 

[Ategy]

Not all registrars hold clients domains for a year beyond expiry and pawn it off as good faith. In fact, none do, except Epik.

Again .. who cares .. they are allowed to do it. They did NOTHING wrong! If anything it was a bonus for the old owner who had an extra ~11 months to reclaim it.

No registrars come to this forum crying about a udrp because of domains they’ve acquired with no outside competition, except Epik.

The UDRP and what you're complaining about are COMPLETELY different things.

Epik.com sucks and operates in bad faith. That’s my position on the matter. Don’t like it? Don’t cry out to the masses.

lol .. I'm not the one crying here. I'm telling you nobody broke the rules .. yet you're the one "crying" foul!

By crying, (removing your bias) did you mean to say raising awareness?
It's hard to argue that this thread hasn't:

• Raised awareness about the UDRP Process
• Provided insight to how registrars acquire domains

@Grilled .. the problem I have here is that it's two very separate things. What @Keith is actually gripping about is the fact he doesn't like the current ICANN rules for expired domains (although for some reason he thinks he should specifically attack Rob about it off-topic here). Again .. I didn't disagree that some changes are definitely needed. But the fact Rob's being attacked for what happens to 100,000 other domains EVERY DAY by almost ALL OTHER REGISTRARS is bad form and bad taste. It's a personal attack on him that should be directed on the entire industry and more specifically on ICANN and ICANN's rules.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Again .. now you're just being ridiculous. Do you have proof the customers of the acquired registrar weren't informed of the change of ownership? lol .. C'mon .. really. Show me your proof.

The original owner didn't sign back into their account since one day after registering the domain.

(registered June 2nd, 2011 > Last login June 3rd, 2011)

That doesn't raise a red flag to you?

 

[Keith]

If anything it was a bonus for the old owner who had an extra ~11 months to reclaim it.

What proof do you have of that? I’d ask anyone viewing this thread to tell us they got a domain back after 11 months of expiry at Epik or any other registrar for that matter. Doesn’t happen.

Quit drinking the koolaid imo.

 

[Samer]

What proof do you have of that? I’d ask anyone viewing this thread to tell us they got a domain back after 11 months of expiry at Epik or any other registrar for that matter. Doesn’t happen.

Quit drinking the koolaid imo.

I’d like anyone to willingly admit they let a domain expire 11 months past expiry.

They dont deserve the name back imo!
fightin 4 hypothetical lazy pple who dont exist,
cheap $8 .com rate?, imagine prices .com up..
bet more”drops”-Will expiry Keith come rescue

Also recall you thought .com prices too cheap,
more drop if go up? will be all over Rob, then?
you are fighting for “irresponsibility” rights,

 

[Ategy]

Rather than wasting time writing ill-researched novels, CAPITALIZING and bolding, how about taking the time to read about the renewal of Sofia.com, where you'll find many reasons why a original owner might not have renewed a domain, and where the fact of not renewing a domain, is not the only metric to use when deciding if the owner intended to keep or delete their domain.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ho...dy-notifying-a-domain-owner-to-renew.1061565/

Again .. please tell me why BC30 is different from any other domain? Sure it sucks sometimes that an original owner has an unfortunate set of circumstances that fall against them that leads to them unintentionally losing a domain.

BUT ...
1) Please tell me where in the rules a registrar is supposed to get the personal and direct assurance of all original owners of each and every domain that expires if they actually wanted to let it expire. The rules say registrars need to send X notices in X amount of time .. unless you have proof Epik didn't do that, then this attack is 100% without merit.

2) Where is your campaign against GoDaddy and almost all other registrars for each of the 50,000 expired domains each day where they didn't get some additional personal assurance from the original owner before they take and auction away their domains? Again .. I'm not against you not liking the current rules ... I'm just saying that it's extremely hypocritical to only be attacking this one specific domain and this one specific registrar when every year there are literally TENS OF MILLIONS other domains from hundreds of other registrars that have the exact some thing happen to them!

 

[Ategy]

What proof do you have of that? I’d ask anyone viewing this thread to tell us they got a domain back after 11 months of expiry at Epik or any other registrar for that matter. Doesn’t happen. Quit drinking the koolaid imo.

Again .. why is this even relevant. Even if he didn't allow it to recovered after 11 months, the only thing Epik has to do to be compliant is make sure the domain owner has rights to the domain while they're paying for it and whatever grace periods are in the terms of service.

Again .. you may not personally like @Rob Monster for whatever reason. You might not personally like the way he does business. But to single him out and make him look bad specifically for something almost ALL other registrars do, is nothing more than a personal attack. You aren't wrong to not like the current ICANN rules .. even I agree changes are needed .. but you are wrong in insinuating that any rules were broken here .. NO EXISTING RULES WERE BROKEN ... which means that your fight should be against ICANN and their rules .. and not specifically targeted at Epik in the off-topic manner you've done here!

 

[Keith]

Again .. please tell me why BC30 is different from any other domain? Sure it sucks sometimes that an original owner has an unfortunate set of circumstances that fall against them that leads to them unintentionally losing a domain.

BUT ...
1) Please tell me where in the rules a registrar is supposed to get the personal and direct assurance of all original owners of each and every domain that expires if they actually wanted to let it expire. The rules say registrars need to send X notices in X amount of time .. unless you have proof Epik didn't do that, then this attack is 100% without merit.

2) Where is your campaign against GoDaddy and almost all other registrars for each of the 50,000 expired domains each day where they didn't get some additional personal assurance from the original owner before they take and auction away their domains? Again .. I'm not against you not liking the current rules ... I'm just saying that it's extremely hypocritical to only be attacking this one specific domain and this one specific registrar when every year there are literally TENS OF MILLIONS other domains from hundreds of other registrars that have the exact some thing happen to them!

Thousands of domains delete from godaddy on a daily basis. They give customers first right to purchase expired domains. If no customers want to buy, they get deleted.

Did epik delete a domain that wasn’t wanted by their customer? If so, how did they get it back? Answer is...

 

[Samer]

Thousands of domains delete from godaddy on a daily basis. They give customers first right to purchase expired domains. If no customers want to buy, they get deleted.

Did epik delete a domain that wasn’t wanted by their customer? If so, how did they get it back? Answer is...

Thanks for replying to my HD post, Keith.
I thought most used Godaddy for Closeouts? Well i do to minimize bad faith bs... How about API they grant to all their customers? oh wait. You forgot to mention that too.

Use Godady expired auctions (70M inventory)
as an example how a business should be run.
Now i’ve seen it all. Epik treats customers fairer than GD hopes to be

Samer

 

[Chris Hydrick]

But the fact Rob's being attacked for what happens to 100,000 other domains EVERY DAY by almost ALL OTHER REGISTRARS is bad form and bad taste. It's a personal attack on him that should be directed on the entire industry and more specifically on ICANN and ICANN's rules.

OK, I want to agree to this.

But 100,000 other domains EVERY DAY? Really?! That seems like a fake number. Why double down on fake statistics by CAPITALIZING every day?

According to ExpiredDomains.net (Deleted Domains > past 24 hours) yields 145,887 results. To say this happens to 100,000 domains every day is a bit of a stretch.

Yes, 100,000+ domains delete every day. But this situation is unique. And while I agree @Keith biased and I don't support his views that epik.com sucks, I do commend him for sticking to specific talking points.

This specific domain acquisition is not like every other acquisition. Facts and specifics matter in terms of consistent and fair practice. A point Keith has been tirelessly trying to make since he felt robbed (pun intended) through his attempted acquisition of MobileWallet.

In regards to this turning into a personal attack that should be directed at the entire industry, specifically on ICANN, I agree the focus could be better directed elsewhere.

But at the same point, Rob is seemingly the only CEO in the domain industry participating in a public forum, being as transparent as possible (other CEOs might argue too transparent) and thus, by virtue of being the only representative of "the other side" Rob receives more than his fair share of punches, when they are really industry wide concerns, its just we hear or are reminded of the practice, by those being most transparent, and not shying away from it in the shadows. Thus he becomes the easy target. When, in fact, the scope should be zoomed out, to see a greater picture at scale, and focus attention elsewhere. Don't hate the payer, hate the game, comes to mind. But I never completely understood that, given personal responibility has to account for something, somewhere.

 

[Keith]

Thanks for replying to my HD post, Keith.
I thought most used Godaddy for Closeouts? Well i do to minimize bad faith bs... How about API they grant to all their customers? oh wait. You forgot to mention that too.

Use Godady expired auctions (70M inventory)
as an example how a business should be run.
Now i’ve seen it all

Sorry but I don’t understand the majority of your posts.

 

[Samer]

Sorry but I don’t understand the majority of your posts.

deserve a gold star bad faith expired auctions.
i’ll put it in number format;

Godaddy expired auctions furthest thing from “fair” treat customers, for you to use as an example means nothing;

1) should be Illegal under table relationship with HugeDomains.... what was their # again?

2) Only granting their API to “special” clients
Doesnt Rob make his available to all? Rob didnt u just make the Epik Escrow API avail 2?

3) Charge yearly fees for auctions because well, they can. They’re a monopoly. oh and another for reserve. Nice “faith” Keith!

Need i go on? Godaddy system is so flawed in highest order, why cite GD expired auctions?
“good faith” for rob to follow? lol put him out business, if Rob follows Godaddy” “morals”.

 

[Keith]

deserve a gold star bad faith expired auctions.
i’ll put it in number format;

Godaddy expired auctions furthest thing from “fair” treat customers, for you to use as an example means nothing;

1) should be Illegal under table relationship with HugeDomains.... what was their # again?

2) Only granting their API to “special” clients
Doesnt Rob make his available to all? Rob didnt u just make the Epik Escrow API avail 2?

3) Charge yearly fees for auctions because well, they can. They’re a monopoly. oh and another for reserve. Nice “faith” Keith!

need i go on? Godaddy system flawed in highest order, why cite GD expired auctions
“good faith” for rob to follow? lol put him out of business, if he follows Godaddy way, ANY way.

I see what you are getting at but this is common amongst industry registrars.

What Epik and Netsol do is not ok.

 

[Ategy]

Thousands of domains delete from godaddy on a daily basis. They give customers first right to purchase expired domains. If no customers want to buy, they get deleted.

How do you know? More importantly ..That's not even the point. What matters is that they would be allowed to if they wanted to. Even more importantly .. they TAKE all our expired domains and try to sell them at a profit that they keep 100%! How is that any different from keeping the domain? Keeping the profit isn't any different from keeping the domain. In fact now somebody else owns the domain and the original owner has no further grace period to get it back, so in a way it's worse.

According to ExpiredDomains.net (Deleted Domains > past 24 hours) yields 145,887 results. To say this happens to 100,000 domains every day is a bit of a stretch.

I don't know what the exact number is. GoDaddy auctions a little over 50,000 expired domains every day (I should know, I go through the list every day for my lists at NameCult .. lol). And I've heard a few times that they represent about half of all domains. So with all the other auction platforms combined it's likely not far from 100k domains.

But again, it's not really the point. The point is that 100% of expired domains that go to expired auctions are "TAKEN" from the original domainer. The method and visuals might be different and different here .. but the end result is the same as those ~100,000 other domains every day .. and more importantly .. no existing rules were broken!

I'm not saying @Keith is wrong for not liking what happened .. but this personal attack is 100% inappropriate because nothing was done outside of the rules .. his attack should be on ICANN and the existing rules. I'm fine with that .. because Rob has done nothing wrong here. In fact .. with NameLiquidate he's set it up so original domain owners can get 91% of revenues from their expired domains .. GoDaddy takes 50,000 expired domains A DAY away from the original owners and gives them 0%! Yet somehow you guys feel it's appropriate to go off-topic and attack Epik as opposed to GoDaddy or more importantly the actual ICANN rules ??? That's 100% wrong!

In regards to this turning into a personal attack that should be directed at the entire industry, specifically on ICANN, I agree the focus could be better directed elsewhere.

I'm glad you're starting to see the light .. lol .. Because that's all I'm saying .. that this specific and personal attack against Rob is unjustified as long as he's playing by the rules and not doing anything that ultimately ends up being any different from hundreds of other registrars.

 

[nothere]

I am debating whether to give the defendant the chance to settle for $4200, their last offer.

That's a good one and makes financial sense for both sides, but be aware that this might be seen as bad faith: "Now you are aware of the trademark and are seeking to profit from it" they might say.

Big companies are funny, sometimes they want to make a point and bury you. Depends how much sleep their C level exec had the night before. Legal expenses are part of their life.

 

[Ategy]

That's a good one and makes financial sense for both sides, but be aware that this might be seen as bad faith: "Now you are aware of the trademark and are seeking to profit from it" they might say.

It's irrelevant if he's aware of the trademark now. For the 3rd part of the URDP (aka bad faith registration) it only matters if it can be proven if he was aware of the company's trademark at the time he acquired the domain (which would be back when he paid the first renewal ~8 years ago).

There has been a case somewhere where I think a panellist/judge set the time as being the last renewal, but for the most part it's generally when the current owner acquired the domain.

Otherwise it is always safe not to make outgoing offers to trademark holders, but once they've contacted you the first time it's fine (although be careful as they could indeed be playing tricky games .. be sure to be very aware of the specific words used .. and always inform and educate yourself)