UDRP BC30.com UDRP lost by NamePros Member

[Silentptnr]

Sorry to read that Rob Monster lost a domain and a payday. I learned from this.

https://domaingang.com/domain-law/bc30-com-udrp-what-not-to-do-when-negotiating-a-domain-sale/

Let's discuss this.

I personally have never been involved in a udrp case, but naturally I've contemplated my plan if I ever am.

 

[Keith]

Not entirely true.



Additionally, and I'm not sure if this applies to current domains at epik in year 2020, or if the same $199 recovery fee applied in 2012...



... but the original owner (Mike) would have been able to recover his domain for the next one year. Since we're talking eight years later, I'm wondering if Mike would still able allowed to recover the domain? Or if there's a hard line in one year after, but given Epik still owns the domain, I don't think it's unreasonable for the original owner to ask to recover his domain. What recovery fees would apply? Would the legal fee's of this UDRP apply if Epik were to get the domain back, and the original owner were to request recovery? I mean, heck, recovering a domain 8 years after you letting it drop, now that would be the Swiss bank of domains! Lastly, who's to say Mike is the original owner, yes he is the original owner if we consider the 2011 creation date, but prior to the 2011 creation date, there was a 2009 creation date, with an assumed different original owner.

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Digressing back to @Keith point, if the acquisition price of BC30 was $0. Than this enture thread here revolves around a UDRP for a domain that came with a $0 acquisition fee minus renewal fee's.

Maybe there's an easy answer to this. An answer likely related to my inexperience. But if Michael Bush was an Epik customer, why does WHOIS show BC30 at DropWeek and not at Epik?

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From @Rob Monster on page 3 of this thread -

The domain name BC30.com was dropped by a former registrant at Epik. That's actually how we got it.

- It was registered on June 2, 2011 by a registrant whose first name is "Mike".

- He never logged in again after June 3, 2011.

- We sent renewal notices 7 times as we normally do.

- When the domain dropped out of grace period, we kept it rather than sending it through the expiry stream.

NOTE!!! WE KEPT IT RATHER THAN SENDING IT THROUGH THE EXPIRY STREAM.

That equals free in my book and an abuse via the registrar, Epik.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

From @Rob Monster on page 3 of this thread -

I quoted that post about 35 minutes ago on page 4.

 

[Keith]

I quoted that post about 35 minutes ago on page 4.

So it’s clear, they kept it, it was not paid for. If Epik wanted the domain they should’ve let it drop and competed with you and I on the open market.

What if this was a LL .com? People would hit the roof. But it’s the principle of the matter. Theft is theft.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

So it’s clear, they kept it, it was not paid for. If Epik wanted the domain they should’ve let it drop and competed with you and I on the open market.

Rob says Mike was an Epik Customer.

WHOIS shows Michael had registered it at DropWeek.com.

This is the part that's not clear to me.

 

[Keith]

Rob says Mike was an Epik Customer.

WHOIS shows Michael had registered it at DropWeek.com.

This is the part that's not clear to me.

Did you read what rob said? It’s very clear.

Said domain expired and rob used the backend of the system at epik to take the domain for himself. It was registered there, expired there, stolen by the owner of epik there. Very clear.

 

[Lox]

Wrong

@Rob Monster already admitted that the domain did not go through the normal expiry process. You might want to look back at the facts.

 

[HotKey]

How Monster acquired the domain is a different topic to the controversial, disgusting UDRP ruling. While I agree it seems somewhat a conflict of interest, it should be discussed on a separate thread, yes? It really could be something for us to look at, and something to be fixed or further clarified.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Did you read what rob said? It’s very clear.

Said domain expired and rob used the backend of the system at epik to take the domain for himself. It was registered there, expired there, stolen by the owner there. Very clear.

Yes, I read what Rob said.

But I also try to fact check, to support what's being said.

DomainIQ Historical WHOIS doesn't seem to match what Rob said.

Unless possibly Rob or Epik is/was some way affiliated with DropWeek.com?

 

[Keith]

Yes, I read what Rob said.

But I also try to fact check, to support what's being said.

DomainIQ Historical WHOIS doesn't seem to match what Rob said.

Unless possibly Rob or Epik is/was some way affiliated with DropWeek.com?

Ask him how much he paid. Case closed.

 

[Rob Monster]

Keith - Please do us all a favor and stop spouting nonsense.

On Day 36 of expiry, we send domains to Snapnames.

For cases where we think the domain owner might not be intentionally dropping a domain, we'll renew a domain into our house portfolio.

The practice is called domain warehousing and is practiced widely in the industry by registrars and it is not all bad.

In our case, had the former registrant name Mike come back to us within 1 year, they could have recovered the domain for a fixed price of $199. Obviously that did not happen.

So, we lawfully own the domain. There was no malfeasance, and there was bad faith. Ever.

The case will go forward. We'll file before Wednesday. And while we're at it, we'll seek to invalidate the BC30 trademark entirely.

 

[Samer]

Rob’s telling the truth.

The Sherpa 2011 registrar auction partner list. Epik’s partner listed Snapnames, same since. Nothin change except biases, Good job, Rob!
still dont get l relevance.. Please Worry, UDRP, happen anyone..! I support Rob in this fight

Samer

 

[Keith]

Keith - Please do us all a favor and stop spouting nonsense.

On Day 36 of expiry, we send domains to Snapnames.

For cases where we think the domain owner might not be intentionally dropping a domain, we'll renew a domain into our house portfolio.

The practice is called domain warehousing and is practiced widely in the industry by registrars and it is not all bad.

In our case, had the former registrant name Mike come back to us within 1 year, they could have recovered the domain for a fixed price of $199. Obviously that did not happen.

So, we lawfully own the domain. There was no malfeasance, and there was bad faith. Ever.

The case will go forward. We'll file before Wednesday. And while we're at it, we'll seek to invalidate the BC30 trademark entirely.

Wrong on so many levels.

First, you kept the domain for a year past expiry. That’s wrong!

You didn’t pay for the domain except your company ICANN fees. That’s wrong!

You took a domain for yourself and now want to cry about a udrp. That’s called karma.

Now you’re the registrar and judge. You determine who meant to do what with their domain. What a joke.

 

[Rob Monster]

On the 2011 registration, it was a DropCatch name.

For those who missed it, in June 2011, Epik acquired IntrustDomains, a dropcatch provider that maintained a network of dropcatching registrars.

This domain was a dropcatch in 2011.

A year later, the registrant did not renew despite 7 renewal notices.

All of the transactional events related to the domain since June 2, 2011 are fully documented in our system from inception to present day.

 

[Keith]

A year later, the registrant did not renew despite 7 renewal notices.

What evidence do you have that says the owner didn’t intend to drop? After all, this the reason you said you kept BC30.

It better be good!

 

[Rob Monster]

Wrong on so many levels.

First, you kept the domain for a year past expiry. That’s wrong!

You didn’t pay for the domain except your company ICANN fees. That’s wrong!

You took a domain for yourself and now want to cry about a udrp. That’s called karma.

Now you’re the registrar and judge. You determine who meant to do what with their domain. What a joke.

We paid not just ICANN fees but also Versign fees for .COM. The ICANN fees are modest by comparison.

Registrars are free to monetize their expiry stream.

Godaddy does it all day long. We are disrupting that through projects like this:

https://nameliquidate.com/

And this:

https://marketplace.epik.com/daily-diamonds

When it comes to protecting registrant rights, we're the good guys. You might have missed that.

 

[Samer]

Dnw 2011 Intrust acquisition report at the time.

 

[Keith]

"Top contributor" would be a generous label. "Top nonsense spouter" is more like it.

We paid not just ICANN fees but also Versign fees for .COM. The ICANN fees are modest by comparison.

Registrars are free to monetize their expiry stream.

Godaddy does it all day long. We are disrupting that through projects like this:

https://nameliquidate.com/

And this:

https://marketplace.epik.com/daily-diamonds

When it comes to protecting registrant rights, we're the good guys. You might have missed that.

Godaddy does what all day? Their domains go through a streamlined process no matter how much value is there.

Please show us emails from Mike where he said he didn’t intend to drop BC30. Otherwise admit that Epik used their position as registrar to take ownership of an expired domain, with the intent to profit.

 

[Rob Monster]

Godaddy does what all day? Their domains go through a streamlined process no matter how much value is there.

Please show us emails from Mike where he said he didn’t intend to drop BC30. Otherwise admit that Epik used their position as registrar to take ownership of an expired domain, with the intent to profit.

What part of Snapnames (part of Web.com) business model do you fail to grasp?

Registrars send their expiry streams to Snapnames and get ~75% of the proceeds.

What Epik does is a bit more noble:

1. We offer a grace period.

2. We offer an extended grace period if a customer notifies us they are having an issue, i.e. we'll hold a domain in escrow as a layaway on good faith.

3. We offer interest-free loans for people who are at risk of losing their domains.

4. We do from time to warehouse names rather than send to the expiry stream and provide a 1 year window to recover it for $199 if we still have it.

As for renewal notices, it is all managed as part of our ICANN-approved expired domains policy which is transparently disclose dhere:

https://epik.com/support/faq/expired-registration-recovery-policy/

Which is linked from our published terms of service:

https://www.epik.com/terms.php

So, why don't you go waste someone else's time in a thread of your own.

 

[Keith]

Let’s recap /

@Rob Monster is saying he’s such a nice guy. He held Mikes domain after it expired, BC30.com. It wasn’t purchased on the open market but pushed to an account at Epik, via Epik back end.

Offer comes in, Epik tries to profit $4,200 from a domain they absolutely did not register or purchase from any individual.

Rob can’t tell us why he held this specific domain for this specific customer. Maybe the customer died and the family contacted Epik? Nah. Tell us why you just had to hold BC30.com for yourself!

Rob, snapnames has nothing to do with it. You kept the domain. What are you doing right now? Deflecting isn’t going to work.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

For those who missed it, in June 2011, Epik acquired IntrustDomains, a dropcatch provider that maintained a network of dropcatching registrars.

A concern might be the registrant (Mike) didn't get the notice. You mentioned he didn't log in, since one day after registering it. Eg. Registered on June 2nd > Last login June 3rd.

- He never logged in again after June 3, 2011.

Thus, if Epik acquired the dropcatching registrar he had used to acquire it, the 7 renewal emails, and WHOIS information showing Epik as the registrar the year after, not the year during his registration, might have led Mike to other mitigating circumstances that may have led to him not logging back in. Or further, how would Mike have known he could pay a $199 fee in 2012/2013 to recover his domain, given it was registered at a different registrar than he registered it at. Obviously, should Mike have received any electronic communication stating he had the ability to recover it at Epik within the year after expiration for $199, especially given possible confusion following an acquisition, this electronic communication would seemingly squash any concern of the registrant not being made aware of his rights or options as the domain owner.

 

[Rob Monster]

A concern might be the registrant (Mike) didn't get the notice. You mentioned he didn't log in, since one day after registering it. Eg. Registered on June 2nd > Last login June 3rd.



Thus, if Epik acquired the dropcatching registrar he had used to acquire it, the 7 renewal emails, and WHOIS information showing Epik as the registrar the year after, not the year during his registration, might have led Mike to other mitigating circumstances that may have led to him not logging back in. Or further, how would Mike have known he could pay a $199 fee in 2013 to recover his domain, given it was registered at a different registrar than he registered it at. Obviously, should Mike have received any electronic communication stating he had the ability to recover it at Epik within the year after expiration for $199, especially given possible confusion following an acquisition, this electronic communication would seemingly squash any concern of the registrant not being made aware of his rights or options as the domain owner.

Yup, all was done properly there. If it goes ot trial, we'll demonstrate all of that.

There was no bad faith.

There was no malfeasance.

There is no ongoing inquiry of any kind with the original registrant.

The original registrant dropped it and we never heard from him.

Why he registered the domain in the first place, we have no idea.

 

[Keith]

Why he registered the domain in the first place, we have no idea.

It’s not up to you to decide why someone registered a domain.

It’s up to you to let expiring domains go back into the pool, not to play mind reader.

 

[Rob Monster]

It’s not up to you to decide why someone registered a domain.

It’s up to you to let expiring domains go back into the pool, not to play mind reader.

So you are saying:

Anyone who is partnered with Snapnames for monetization is violating their ICANN agreement?

Anyone who has ever bought a domain from a Godaddy expiry auction is engaged in fraudulent conveyance, including a vast amount of inventory sitting at Huge Domains?

Anyway, good luck that. Whatever you put in your cornflakes this morning seems to be messing with your head.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

 

[Rob Monster]

When was/is deadline for you to handover the domain?

Edit:
Decision > Complaint > and then, based on the outcome of complaint

Wednesday is 10 business days since the notice was received. The documents are ready and in good order. We are in time. God bless @patents for his help. I could not have done it without him.