NameSilo

BC30.com UDRP lost by Namepros Member

Labeled as UDRP in Legal Discussion, started by Silentptnr, Feb 20, 2020

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  1. NameDeck

    NameDeck SaveDotOrg.org VIP

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    Exept for bacon.world. 11 hours to go :).

    In all honesty, I don't blame you for picking up that domain but most people don't like this practice. No matter who the registrar is so @Keith does raise a fair point.

    But yeah, let's not get sidetracked. Following what happens as this decision is insane and concerning.
     
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  2. Ja Kai

    Ja Kai Account Closed (Requested)

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    I think past misdeeds caught up with you AND USED AGAINST YOU HERE.

    What were you thinking here?

    JLS.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
  3. Rob Monster

    Rob Monster CEO, Epik Epik.com Staff PRO VIP Gold Account

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    Nah, not a misdeed.

    It was a bulk deal with MMX for DIgitalTown for a project. We never sold any of them. They were to be given away. The logical owners just had to claim them. Content-wise there was no trespass on marks.

    I realize in retrospect that some panelists now find that to be a convenient excuse for engaging in their bounty-hunting projects for their corporate sponsors.

    Look up the case for Gorgonzola.city -- we won that case but dropped the domain anyway. The entire UDRP process is a tax on the domain economy. If you don't pay to play, you lose. That's not justice.
     
  4. nothere

    nothere Established Member

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    There has to be a way to crosscheck thousands of names with a trademark database and then act accordingly, depending on dates of registration and potential for a UDRP.

    Not all registered trademarks can get your name: apple.com educating people the benefits of the fruit known as apple is 100% legitimate. But apple.com hawking Dell laptops and Samsung phones is just not gonna do it and they will get your name, one way or another.
     
  5. Drongy

    Drongy WebSuffix.com VIP

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    After cases like these, it does seem like no domain is safe from just being taken.
     
  6. patents

    patents Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This is a bad decision. At least you can file your lawsuit in your backyard as opposed to another registrar's distant location. I hope you do.
     
  7. karmaco

    karmaco Top Contributor VIP

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    I don’t think anybody should complain about Epiks choices with their expired stream. Nobody complains about the virtual monopoly of expiring domain monster GoDaddy. I mean talk about unfair that almost everything has to pass through their stream. I am sure they grab some gems if they don’t let their biggest clients have at it. Rigged system for the big players with big wallets.
     
  8. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

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    basically it's not a reply that will get a lot of likes here

    to me, the decision of the panel is ridiculously
    the complaint does not have a legal claim to the domain
    based on trademarks
    as far as I understand it.

    - I'm not a lawyer - don't listen to me -



    on the other hand
    $4200 USD is a very fair offer on that domain
    as far as I understand it.

    - I'm not an expert - don't listen to me -


    to me, the outcome is proof that the idea of
    "shoot to the moon"
    is an oversimplification of the real world.

    It doesn't work that way
    it's more complex

    - I'm not a world expert - don't listen to me -

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/dont-shoot-for-the-moon.1164071/

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/yall-wanna-shoot-the-moon.1162085/


    Bible quotes won't do it as well, of course,
    as when the bible was written,
    there was no internet
    -only courts-

    but of course, it was a kind of an early form of a forum
    because many editors could post to the bible forum and later on
    an admin decided what to keep and want to leave
    inside the later official bible version
    -based on his personal preferences

    so basically the bible is a "test run" of the later internet

    - I'm not a bible expert - don't listen to me -
     
  9. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

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  10. Rob Monster

    Rob Monster CEO, Epik Epik.com Staff PRO VIP Gold Account

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    Quick update here.

    BC30.com pro se legal complaint and related documents are ready to file thanks to some timely help from @patents. Deadline is Wednesday. I am debating whether to give the defendant the chance to settle for $4200, their last offer. In the meantime, any legal folks with eagle guys are welcome to PM me for a preview of the draft filings.

    @patents has a record of prevailing in civil actions against nonsense UDRP judgements. Assuming civil courts in home jurisdiction do a better job than WIPO at protecting private property, this just means that WIPO becomes a lead-generator for serious and determined buyers. WIPO goes from being bounty-hunters for overreaching complainants, to becoming a lead-generator for lawfully engaged registrants.

    With Epik, Inc (registrar) and Anonymize, Inc (WHOIS proxy) both domiciled in King County, WA, this could be a more frequent thing. Lose in UDRP with minimal defense against a sole corporate-sponsored panelists where the oppositions lays out the entire case, and then prevail in civil action. Of course you have to pick your battles. If you registered a name that you should not own, I would dump it.

    Fiat justitia ruat caelum
     
  11. timestamp

    timestamp Established Member

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    When was/is deadline for you to handover the domain?

    Edit:
    Decision > Complaint > and then, based on the outcome of complaint
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  12. Keith

    Keith Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @Rob Monster

    Lets circle back to the fact that you kept this domain for yourself, instead of letting it expire like it should have.

    You mentioned that you sometimes hold domains for up to a year past expiry in case the original owner wants them back. Fair enough. Do you delete all the domains after the year grace period is up or do you become the sole owner? Also, in this case, had the buyer paid your ask, you would profit $4,200. Do you give that to the owner for whom you’re holding the domain?

    You can see how it looks like you’re just taking domains for yourself, in order to profit. These are relevant questions given that BC30 wasn’t allowed to go through expiry process like it should have. Had it been dropped instead of warehoused by Epik, this udrp wouldn’t be happening to you.
     
  13. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

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    What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster?

    an old post of mine

     
  14. Keith

    Keith Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It’s theft if you want to get to the point. BC30 wasn’t purchased, it was taken via abuse of power. Netsol is known to do the same thing which is why I don’t keep a single domain at registrars that operate in this fashion.

    And now it makes perfect sense why mobilewallet.com didn’t hit my account via my backorder. Epik kept it!
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  15. Shaan Chopra

    Shaan Chopra Established Member

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    Best Of Luck​

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Grilled

    Grilled Top Contributor VIP

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    Was this stated previously as a fact, or...?

    I'm just jumping in to this thread, so forgive me for asking where the source of acquisition came from?

    According to DomainIQ historical WHOIS...

    May 28th, 2012
    Registrant Name: Michael Bush
    Registrar: DropWeek.com
    Creation: June 2nd, 2011
    Expiration: June 2nd, 2012
    Last Update: June 2nd, 2011

    July 7th, 2012
    Registrant Name: WHOIS Agent
    Registrar: DropWeek.com
    Creation: June 2nd, 2011
    Expiration: June 2nd, 2013
    Last Update: July 3rd, 2012

    September 20th, 2012
    Registrant Name: Rob Monster
    Registrar: Epik
    Creation: June 2nd, 2011
    Expiration: June 2nd, 2013
    Last Update: September 13th, 2012

    ** Point of Notice: July 7th, 2012 WHOIS shows a 2013 expiration at registrar DropWeek, but the September 20th, 2012 WHOIS also shows a 2013 expiration despite showing a new registrar, Epik. I mention this, to note usually a domain transfer to a different registrar carries a one year addition to the expiration. Not here to speculate on what occurred without knowing more. As WHOIS data is subject to error and/or I think it can be modified at the registrar level e.g. refunded/deleted domains at registrar level can affect WHOIS expiration.

    upload_2020-3-1_12-29-2.png

    <<<<>>>>

    upload_2020-3-1_12-29-34.png

    <<<<>>>>

    upload_2020-3-1_12-30-5.png
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  17. Don Gondon

    Don Gondon Established Member

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    Welcome back!
     
  18. Keith

    Keith Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Fact

    I can’t even believe @Rob Monster admitted it in this thread, publicly. Look back. Epik takes expired domains for themselves.
     
  19. Grilled

    Grilled Top Contributor VIP

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    Thanks. I suppose I could have found the answer by looking at the previous page of this thread.

     
  20. Keith

    Keith Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    So the entire thread here revolves around a udrp for a domain that @Rob Monster didn't pay for. Instead, he took it from a customer at epik because he had access to the back end of his website.
     
  21. Lox

    Lox _____ VIP Gold Account

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    Every day, registries takes and reserve 10s of premium expired domains and no one give a *. The DN BC30 com was available on regular drop catch pool, so... to get the name, R.M. didn't use pre-drop timeframe extensive pinging.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  22. Keith

    Keith Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Wrong

    @Rob Monster already admitted that the domain did not go through the normal expiry process. You might want to look back at the facts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  23. Lox

    Lox _____ VIP Gold Account

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    So you know something I don't. That's good to know. (y)

    Regards
     
  24. Keith

    Keith Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It’s in the thread if you read it. Epik took the domain behind the scenes. They didn’t buy it.

    When is the last time you got a free domain? Case closed.
     
  25. Grilled

    Grilled Top Contributor VIP

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    Not entirely true.

    Additionally, and I'm not sure if this applies to current domains at epik in year 2020, or if the same $199 recovery fee applied in 2012...

    ... but the original owner (Mike) would have been able to recover his domain for the next one year. Since we're talking eight years later, I'm wondering if Mike would still able allowed to recover the domain? Or if there's a hard line in one year after, but given Epik still owns the domain, I don't think it's unreasonable for the original owner to ask to recover his domain. What recovery fees would apply? Would the legal fee's of this UDRP apply if Epik were to get the domain back, and the original owner were to request recovery? I mean, heck, recovering a domain 8 years after you letting it drop, now that would be the Swiss bank of domains! Lastly, who's to say Mike is the original owner, yes he is the original owner if we consider the 2011 creation date, but prior to the 2011 creation date, there was a 2009 creation date, with an assumed different original owner.

    upload_2020-3-1_13-3-53.png

    Digressing back to @Keith point, if the acquisition price of BC30 was $0. Than this enture thread here revolves around a UDRP for a domain that came with a $0 acquisition fee minus renewal fee's.

    Maybe there's an easy answer to this. An answer likely related to my inexperience. But if Michael Bush was an Epik customer, why does WHOIS show BC30 at DropWeek and not at Epik?

    upload_2020-3-1_13-8-48.png

    <<<>>>

    upload_2020-3-1_13-8-14.png


    <<<>>>

    upload_2020-3-1_13-9-40.png
     

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