poll As a buyer on a scale of 0 to 10 how important is the value assigned by an automated appraisal

[equity78]

Estibot and GoDaddy are the two dominant forces in the automated appraisal space, there are some other players in the game as well. No matter which service is providing the value, how much weight do you give to these services when making a purchase?

 

[manpreet]

Estibot and GoDaddy are the two dominant forces in the automated appraisal space, there are some other players in the game as well. No matter which service is providing the value, how much weight do you give to these services when making a purchase?

I rated 4 out of 10 as the bot valuation just gives you an idea, ofcourse not even close to the real picture. I like Godaddy's appraisal tool as I think that is the only one available with some genuine stats, as of now. I have also been a paying member of Estibot in the past, although the reasoning of their valuation was unreasonable at times. But overall, I believe its the need of the buyer that decides the value of your domain, no bot can evenly justify that.

 

[DN_Hunter]

As a buyer, I don't rely on the tools to help me decide. But I will use the tool if the appraisal is low and in my favor for negotiation.

When making a sale I will use them if they work in my favor (i.e. high appraisal). The thing I like most about the GoDaddy tool is the comparable sales. Sometimes I use them in my negotiations (when it favors me as a seller).

 

[m1_abrams]

Automated appraisals are so outdated.

 

[King]

A good domain might have an appraisal of 1-2k but can easily go for 5-6 figures to the right buyer. If you're making "quick flips" to the uneducated "maybe an end-user" who might use it for a future project than sure it can help but it should have little value to long term investors.

 

[Reddstagg]

Good afternoon.

And many experienced domain investors only think they are a good tool when they are trying to sell a domain.

This must be the only business where there is no benchmark or recognized standard for pricing our products.

In lieu of anything better or an industry wide standard we shall just have to accept that there is some merit to them.

The top ten per cent of domain names are probably like the top ten per cent of million dollar painting in so much that they are frequently traded amongst the top ten per cent of domain investors.

The other 90% have to believe in something and I' m sure that if you or I fully understood the science behind them we would maybe change our opinions and begin to see them as a positive tool rather than as a waste of time and effort.

Only the future knows the final story so either come up with something better or accept and use what we already have.

If your business model is to only sell to other domain investors, then that is one set of logistics, but if your plan is to sell in the real world then you have to put in more time and effort and embracing a tool that end users have probably used themselves will only make the process more efficient and ultimately more profitable.

If we were selling a second hand car we would quote the price of a new one at the main dealership. You know it is a guide price and so too does your potential end user. There are many factors which affect the final price and the skill is knowing what tools you can use to justify your prices.

At the moment, I just feel that many domain investors just wake up one day and use the price they saw in s dream as there is no logical connection to reality. People will never pay the prices that you are asking and I'd say you need to knock a zero off the end. Which end is up to you.

React. Adapt. Overcome

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Reddstagg]

A product doesn't have merit simply because it exists. Sometimes products serve no other purpose but to entertain us, and make money for their creators.

There's a vast difference between taking advantage of an industry gap, and filling that gap successfully.


The "something better" that you speak of is experience. If profitable domainers followed the guidance of appraisal tools, many of them would make a lot less money on their sales, and would own far more invaluable names.

I'm a Newbie. Hands up I admit it.

However, on checking the portfolio of an experienced domainer yesterday I could see that they had their domains listed on a third party selling platform. I checked a couple for research purposes and could see that they were being sold for just under $3,000. However, upon checking GD (my preferred appraisal tool) I could see that neither were valued above $1,200.

Now, as an industry of experienced domain investors are we (I mean you,) saying that the appraisal tool is 'not very good' because it has under or over valued said sample domains?

In my honest limited opinion I think that most domains are over valued by their owners.

This is fine if you are only selling to other domain investors but I'd imagine it would be quite scary if you were the end user who has already checked GD.

Unfortunately, the experience gained that you mention was more often than not say within the last 10 to 20 years when .com was king and had few challengers.

Now, the world is literally your dot.lobster and you can use whatever extension you like. In some cases the tide has turned and .coms are selling for less than not.coms.

Experience gained from outside of this industry can be just as beneficial to a domain investor whether as a Vip or as a Newbie.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Joe N]

I'm a Newbie. Hands up I admit it.

However, on checking the portfolio of an experienced domainer yesterday I could see that they had their domains listed on a third party selling platform. I checked a couple for research purposes and could see that they were being sold for just under $3,000. However, upon checking GD (my preferred appraisal tool) I could see that neither were valued above $1,200.

Now, as an industry of experienced domain investors are we (I mean you,) saying that the appraisal tool is 'not very good' because it has under or over valued said sample domains?

In my honest limited opinion I think that most domains are over valued by their owners.

I tend to agree that many domains are severely over-valued by their owners. I believe that's often a newer domainer mistake, and if studying domain appraisals is what curbs that tendency in some investors, then I can certainly see that as a positive.

I just don't think appraisal tools are necessary when all the information you need is at your fingertips. Appraisal tools seem to serve as a crutch for those who are unwilling to learn the hard way.

You say third party platforms often value names higher than GD, and that it could scare away end users. But these platforms have sold thousands of names this way, based on their own experience and understanding of where the sweet spot is for brandable names. In the face of that kind of industry experience, how well do you think an end user's argument will hold up if they try to use, "But GD's robot says it's worth XXX."?

 

[Reddstagg]

I tend to agree that many domains are severely over-valued by their owners. I believe that's often a newer domainer mistake, and if studying domain appraisals is what curbs that tendency in some investors, then I can certainly see that as a positive.

I just don't think appraisal tools are necessary when all the information you need is at your fingertips. Appraisal tools seem to serve as a crutch for those who are unwilling to learn the hard way.

You say third party platforms often value names higher than GD, and that it could scare away end users. But these platforms have sold thousands of names this way, based on their own experience and understanding of where the sweet spot is for brandable names. In the face of that kind of industry experience, how well do you think an end user's argument will hold up if they try to use, "But GD's robot says it's worth XXX."?

Once again, thanks for your response. You say that third party platforms have sold thousands of such like domains.

The Newbie in me compares that to tens of millions of similar transactions at GD and I know what I put more faith into.

I think we shall have to agree to disagree for now and only the future knows the end story.

Have a good day.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[The Durfer]

changed my vote to 5, it perks my interest to see the value in the domain, then the other half is research and purchase.

 

[hn]

I would give 0 points to any automatic valuation tool. If it were even accurate by 5-10% you could have got some basic amount from sale of domains. Domaining is quite subjective and what I may find value in others may thing I over paid or the other way round. So if most of my domains are valued at say $1500 + does that mean on an average I can get atleast $50-100 out of a domain? If so then automatic valuation has value, but not come across similar offers.

 

[koolishman]

Domaining is quite subjective

True.

 

[BrandAptly.com]

I really think some sort of rating system will be a more efficient component of appraisal tools. I have been considering creating a database of all registered domains that allows visitors to rank domains on a scale of 1-10. Price ranges will be estimated based on the overall domain score.

 

[Reddstagg]

I really think some sort of rating system will be a more efficient component of appraisal tools. I have been considering creating a database of all registered domains that allows visitors to rank domains on a scale of 1-10. Price ranges will be estimated based on the overall domain score.

Good evening,

It is a nice idea as something is definitely needed and quick.

However, it will never work as for example if I have domain name that I want to be more highly rated I will get my family and friends to over inflate the scores. Obviously, the bigger the family the higher the scores.

Down the line it will then be possible to just buy random scores from unscrupulous dealers similar to likes on social media.

The irony of this thread is that although overwhelmingly obvious that many experienced and badged domain investors have shot down automated appraisals not many, if any of them has come up with a tangible alternative and continue to over price their domain names.

The world has changed and will keep turning so I guess I will have to just flip a coin to decide on values.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Reddstagg]

I think what you're missing is that, in general, successful domain investors do not benefit from appraisal tools.

If it was so easy to know exactly what a name is worth, and as a result to have all buyers agree to pay that amount without question, then anyone could do this. What's more, there would be no aftermarket.

Good evening,

I have to dis-agree, not just for the sake of dis-agreeing, but to put across a different perspective. Imagine if you will that domain investing has 10 layers/levels/divisions. If those on the lowest level are using domain appraisal tools then they are either inexperienced or new to domain investing or both.

Usually, as we Newbies are told so often we buy or register poor quality domain names. We either buy too many and drop them at renewal time or due to inexperience we sell domains for less than their actual worth, probably to someone not so new or inexperienced and lets call them level 2.

Everything has a consequence and this filters up the levels until it reaches level 10 which is so far removed from level 1 that the whole arena is different. Just go back on some of the old NP threads and you will see 4L domain names being sold for 5k back in 2013 for example, i.e. just 7 years ago.

Who arrived at those values? Buyers and sellers and the usual market forces. There were less people who were domain investors back then and few if any auto appraisal tools.

I noticed a few people buying domains a couple of months ago stating that they would pay between 5 to 10% of GD value for domain names (although these appear to have dried up now) so to those of us at the beginning of our journey it is at least a starting point and we all have to start somewhere.

I guess my point is this. Why don't we know how much a domain is worth? Why cannot all the smart people here from business, finance, maths or science backgrounds, or indeed from any background, race, creed, religion or socio-economic standing come up with something that we can all agree on.

Those that are quick to knock down the attempts of the companies to introduce automated appraisal systems have, in my mind not offered up an alternative so rather than just state that experience is a better alternative either learn to live with them, explore them or improve them.

If the industry experts do not find something that we can all use and have confidence in then one begins to question why so many are so quick to condemn without factual evidenced proof that there is a better alternative.

Maybe, the top levels of this business are better off not having any systems which can appraise a value for the general domain name buying public, who are in my own opinion the real end users of today's domain names. These were and continue to be traded as commodities like gold, silver, cadmium or oil.

Maybe, the tide is changing and we are beginning to see into the Pandora's box and people are worried in case we open it fully.

It has taken me just one year to get a good handle on domain investing as a business and people are afraid in case the likes of me learn all the secrets and begin to turn the business on its head.

A new breed of domain investor for a brave new world, which is changing before our very eyes.

A little knowledge goes a long way but too much knowledge can be seen in a detrimental way and until someone convinces me otherwise automated domain appraisal tools are here to stay and I will continue to use them as part of a structured domain investing strategy.

I look forward to all of your comments and views.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Reddstagg]

Lots of interesting discussion points there, but I'll try to focus on a couple.

Since you say you have a good handle on this business, this is one that you should be able to answer.

The reason is that the domain aftermarket is not regulated. Nothing is stopping anyone from asking whatever price they want for a name. And nothing is stopping a buyer from paying $40K for a name most others would only spend $500 to own. How can a value be computed for something like that?

To make matters worse, every name is unique. Names you think should have similar value often don't, and it likely comes down to no more than:

• the seller's experience and patience; and
• the buyer's resources and personal tastes

I actually think professional athletes make a great comparison for this purpose. Does it bother you that some athletes make $20+ million dollars per year for no other reason except that there are wealthy teams who will pay that amount just to be the best?

They are commodities. In addition, they are both assets and liabilities. They are brands. They are property. They are trademarks. They are advertisements. And you can never actually own them!

Nothing in the world is like a domain name. So many factors go into determining the value of any single name for any possible buyer... How could an automated tool ever account for all of it?

It's quite the dichotomy, don't you think...? On one hand you want to re-invent the industry, but on the other hand you wonder why there isn't a better robot out there to do the hard work for you.

Good morning and thank you for your reply.

So basically, you are saying that it is impossible to value a domain name as there are too many un-quantifiable parameters and the aftermarket cannot be regulated.

I don't care what people earn by the way and as we are individuals rather than teams or corporations I cannot comment on other situations. Any athlete, footballer or popstar has paid their dues over the years and deserve their payday. Their chosen fields are heavily regulated too.

I look more to the motor insurance industry where there too there are many un-quantifiable parameters at play. The only difference between the two industries is they have top level Actuarial teams who have quantified everything and from those calculations they are able to determine values, costs and everything in between and this is why we are able to get comparable quotes for motor insurance.

The seemingly impossible was made possible by getting the best people for the job, allocating a sufficient budget and by introducing regulation.

It can and should be done , it's just that as an industry we choose not to and pore scorn on any system which attempts to do so without suggesting a better alternative.

My question is this. Why aren't we as an industry crying out for regulation as in the long run it can help all of us?

We call ourselves professional, business people and yet we want to ride around like it is the WWW...Wild Wild West.

Every other type of commodity is regulated and has benchmark figures for buying and trading so it is not too far a stretch of the imagination to assume that the same cannot be done for domain investing.

Maybe those who are so against the idea are the ones who have the most to lose or hide. Maybe they will not be able to continue to act in a regulated industry.

I see it as a good idea and I think that it will make the industry more professional, more controlled and more transparent.

Only time will tell, but it is coming and I for one have no reason to not embrace it as I have everything to gain and nothing to hide.

Again, I think we shall just have to agree to disagree.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Joe Nichols said; "Automated appraisals prey on those who haven't yet developed the confidence or experience (or courage) to valuate and market their own names".

Good morning and thank you for your reply.

So basically, you are saying that it is impossible to value a domain name as there are too many un-quantifiable parameters and the aftermarket cannot be regulated.

I don't care what people earn by the way and as we are individuals rather than teams or corporations I cannot comment on other situations. Any athlete, footballer or popstar has paid their dues over the years and deserve their payday. Their chosen fields are heavily regulated too.

I look more to the motor insurance industry where there too there are many un-quantifiable parameters at play. The only difference between the two industries is they have top level Actuarial teams who have quantified everything and from those calculations they are able to determine values, costs and everything in between and this is why we are able to get comparable quotes for motor insurance.

The seemingly impossible was made possible by getting the best people for the job, allocating a sufficient budget and by introducing regulation.

It can and should be done , it's just that as an industry we choose not to and pore scorn on any system which attempts to do so without suggesting a better alternative.

My question is this. Why aren't we as an industry crying out for regulation as in the long run it can help all of us?

We call ourselves professional, business people and yet we want to ride around like it is the Wild West.

Every other type of commodity is regulated and has benchmark figures for buying and trading so it is not too far a stretch of the imagination to assume that the same cannot be done for domain investing.

Maybe those who are so against the idea are the ones who have the most to lose or hide. Maybe they will not be able to continue to act in a regulated industry.

I see it as a good idea and I think that it will make the industry more professional, more controlled and more transparent.

Only time will tell, but it is coming and I for one have no reason to not embrace it as I have everything to gain and nothing to hide.

Again, I think we shall just have to agree to disagree.

Regards,

Reddstagg

Redd....you have articulated well just how screwed up this industry is, and change is coming. Verisign, the authoritative registry for the likes of the .com and .net extensions called out domainers for being scalpers and hoarders about 18 months ago.

It's pretty ironic in that every .com domain sold comes through Verisign who is an American public company located in Reston, Virginia.

Anyway Redd....you and I are considered domain rebels despite being newbies. Keep up the good work my friend from across the pond....our side is gaining

 

[Joe N]

Good morning and thank you for your reply.

So basically, you are saying that it is impossible to value a domain name as there are too many un-quantifiable parameters and the aftermarket cannot be regulated.

I don't care what people earn by the way and as we are individuals rather than teams or corporations I cannot comment on other situations. Any athlete, footballer or popstar has paid their dues over the years and deserve their payday. Their chosen fields are heavily regulated too.

I look more to the motor insurance industry where there too there are many un-quantifiable parameters at play. The only difference between the two industries is they have top level Actuarial teams who have quantified everything and from those calculations they are able to determine values, costs and everything in between and this is why we are able to get comparable quotes for motor insurance.

The seemingly impossible was made possible by getting the best people for the job, allocating a sufficient budget and by introducing regulation.

It can and should be done , it's just that as an industry we choose not to and pore scorn on any system which attempts to do so without suggesting a better alternative.

My question is this. Why aren't we as an industry crying out for regulation as in the long run it can help all of us?

We call ourselves professional, business people and yet we want to ride around like it is the WWW...Wild Wild West.

Every other type of commodity is regulated and has benchmark figures for buying and trading so it is not too far a stretch of the imagination to assume that the same cannot be done for domain investing.

Maybe those who are so against the idea are the ones who have the most to lose or hide. Maybe they will not be able to continue to act in a regulated industry.

I see it as a good idea and I think that it will make the industry more professional, more controlled and more transparent.

Only time will tell, but it is coming and I for one have no reason to not embrace it as I have everything to gain and nothing to hide.

Again, I think we shall just have to agree to disagree.

Regards,

Reddstagg

How will increased regulation will help domain investors who are already profitable?

 

[Reddstagg]

Good afternoon,

I worked in many different areas of the UK Insurance industry prior to and after the introduction of 'The Financial Services Act 1986' and can assure you that this specific piece of regulation helped every facet of the industry, whether that be Insurance Companies, Financial Advisors, Administration Staff, Brokers, Direct Insurance Companies, Regulatory Bodies, Law Companies, Estate Planners, Accountants and most importantly of all, the General Public.

In my honest opinion the industry was a better place to be after the introduction of this act and everything is more transparent, professional, honest, straightforward, less complicated and better regulated. It is definitely a win-win situation for everybody concerned.

Domain investing as a business makes people money. I can't deny that and wish everyone continued good luck as they move forward.

However, what I object to is making money from those who can ill afford to lose it in the first place or who have been told blatant lies, deliberately mis-informed or mis-directed or even manipulated and although this applies to many businesses we are only concerned with one.

Again, I state that if we want to be seen as honest, ethical professionals we need to be beyond reproach and above suspicion and we can only achieve this through either self-regulation or direct regulation.

If we cannot agree between ourselves on a methodology of determining prices then if we are not careful, we will be told to use one that we do not trust or have faith in.

There are subtle, minor changes that are occurring on both sides of the business and this may just be the first steps towards clarity and regulation.

If your house is not in order, now is the time to make the changes before it is too late.

There have been many people throughout history who have made money but that doesn't mean we should worship them, aspire to be like them or let history paint them as without sins.

My conscious is clear and I have nothing to hide and as I have not made any sales I don't have any cash to bury in the back yard. It happens.

For now, we should agree to disagree and move on.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Joe N]

Good afternoon,

I worked in many different areas of the UK Insurance industry prior to and after the introduction of 'The Financial Services Act 1986' and can assure you that this specific piece of regulation helped every facet of the industry, whether that be Insurance Companies, Financial Advisors, Administration Staff, Brokers, Direct Insurance Companies, Regulatory Bodies, Law Companies, Estate Planners, Accountants and most importantly of all, the General Public.

In my honest opinion the industry was a better place to be after the introduction of this act and everything is more transparent, professional, honest, straightforward, less complicated and better regulated. It is definitely a win-win situation for everybody concerned.

Domain investing as a business makes people money. I can't deny that and wish everyone continued good luck as they move forward.

However, what I object to is making money from those who can ill afford to lose it in the first place or who have been told blatant lies, deliberately mis-informed or mis-directed or even manipulated and although this applies to many businesses we are only concerned with one.

Again, I state that if we want to be seen as honest, ethical professionals we need to be beyond reproach and above suspicion and we can only achieve this through either self-regulation or direct regulation.

If we cannot agree between ourselves on a methodology of determining prices then if we are not careful, we will be told to use one that we do not trust or have faith in.

There are subtle, minor changes that are occurring on both sides of the business and this may just be the first steps towards clarity and regulation.

If your house is not in order, now is the time to make the changes before it is too late.

There have been many people throughout history who have made money but that doesn't mean we should worship them, aspire to be like them or let history paint them as without sins.

My conscious is clear and I have nothing to hide and as I have not made any sales I don't have any cash to bury in the back yard. It happens.

For now, we should agree to disagree and move on.

Regards,

Reddstagg

Are we agreeing to disagree or discussing? You seem to be doing both. But yes, feel free to move on after my response.

Your post contained a lot of vague implications and allusions, but do you have any specifics to offer?

Who is being told blatant lies?
What lies?
Who has money to hide from sales they've made?
How will an automated appraisal tool correct all this?

My opinion is that most professionals in this industry do self-regulate. Do you have evidence that shows otherwise?

Either this discussion has gotten way off-topic, or you think an appraisal tool could "fix" an industry that is only "broken" for those who are inexperienced and/or not yet successful.

 

[Reddstagg]

OK, as you seem to want to continue by asking me questions I will respond.

I do not have to have seen brown envelopes stuffed with cash to know that any society that is unregulated in any way can contain people who are not honest, not trustworthy, transparent, professional or who only have their best interests at heart. No, I cannot name names as it probably happened before I started.

You're either just burying your head in the sand or naive to think that it didn't happen, or indeed continues to happen. Self-regulation has to be by a body corporate representative of the industry and not be done be individuals as they see fit. An individual being accountable to the best of their knowledge and beliefs in not self-regulation.

Now, let's take a random sample of a domain name which proves why people do not advocate for the use of automated domain appraisal tool. Let's see.... 'Twiddl.com. You may recognize it. It is a name listed at Brandpa and registered at GD. It is for sale for $2995. Quite expensive for a six figure mis-spelling. It is appraised by Estibot for $240 and GD has it for less than $100. It is no wonder you are not a big fan of auto appraisal tools.

I would say you'd be lucky to get anything in the $300-500 range for it, but then what do I know as I am not a seller or I do not have any relevant experience. It doesn't even pass the radio test lol.

Now, if we as a professional body could agree on a system to work out the value of domain names we could state that the correct spelling of this domain name has a five figure appraised value and therefore this would only have a 5-10% value of the correct spelling (just by means as an example for the purposes of this discussion) of the domain name. It could even be agreed as 10-20% of value set on a pre-determined set of criteria.

Why would any company spend time and money developing an automated appraisal tool if their only motive was to make money. They probably have cheaper and easier ways of making money. They don't actually have to do much to make money as us domainers have a knack of spending our own money regardless. There has to be a combination of analytics, science,, math, probability, previous sales, comparable sales and many other criteria used in the formulation of this system and I don't claim to understand it but if we could all get behind one system at least I believe that we are then on the way to a more profession transparent business.

Either this discussion has gotten way off-topic, or you think an appraisal tool could "fix" an industry that is only "broken" for those who are inexperienced and/or not yet successful.

The words in blue above are your words directed specifically at me (and others like me) and they are so wide of the mark that it is worrying to think that this is how you feel. If you cannot see that the industry is broken for everyone then the problem is even bigger than I imagined. Just because I have been a domain investor for just over a year does not make me inexperienced in life and maybe you should get down from your ivory tower and credit me with some level of intelligence and accept that maybe someone who doesn't share your own opinion might have some validity. The only reason that I am not yet successful by your definition is that I haven't really tried to sell any of my domain names as I don't need to at this moment in time. However, it is my intention to sell a few at some point but I guess it all depends on how desperate I become.

Not everything in this life is black and white and maybe sometimes in life we have to accept that there are grey areas/issues.

I get the impression that most domainers don't give a fig either way about this discussion so I will give you the right of reply but then I shall be closing my thread.

 

[Reddstagg]

Joe Nichols said; "Automated appraisals prey on those who haven't yet developed the confidence or experience (or courage) to valuate and market their own names".

Good morning and thank you for your reply.

So basically, you are saying that it is impossible to value a domain name as there are too many un-quantifiable parameters and the aftermarket cannot be regulated.

I don't care what people earn by the way and as we are individuals rather than teams or corporations I cannot comment on other situations. Any athlete, footballer or popstar has paid their dues over the years and deserve their payday. Their chosen fields are heavily regulated too.

I look more to the motor insurance industry where there too there are many un-quantifiable parameters at play. The only difference between the two industries is they have top level Actuarial teams who have quantified everything and from those calculations they are able to determine values, costs and everything in between and this is why we are able to get comparable quotes for motor insurance.

The seemingly impossible was made possible by getting the best people for the job, allocating a sufficient budget and by introducing regulation.

It can and should be done , it's just that as an industry we choose not to and pore scorn on any system which attempts to do so without suggesting a better alternative.

My question is this. Why aren't we as an industry crying out for regulation as in the long run it can help all of us?

We call ourselves professional, business people and yet we want to ride around like it is the Wild West.

Every other type of commodity is regulated and has benchmark figures for buying and trading so it is not too far a stretch of the imagination to assume that the same cannot be done for domain investing.

Maybe those who are so against the idea are the ones who have the most to lose or hide. Maybe they will not be able to continue to act in a regulated industry.

I see it as a good idea and I think that it will make the industry more professional, more controlled and more transparent.

Only time will tell, but it is coming and I for one have no reason to not embrace it as I have everything to gain and nothing to hide.

Again, I think we shall just have to agree to disagree.

Regards,

Reddstagg

Redd....you have articulated well just how screwed up this industry is, and change is coming. Verisign, the authoritative registry for the likes of the .com and .net extensions called out domainers for being scalpers and hoarders about 18 months ago.

It's pretty ironic in that every .com domain sold comes through Verisign who is an American public company located in Reston, Virginia.

Anyway Redd....you and I are considered domain rebels despite being newbies. Keep up the good work my friend from across the pond....our side is gaining

Good afternoon from t'other side of the pond.

I just got sick and tired of comparing my (crap apparently) domain names with those that are owned by everyone else and realizing that on the whole most of them were not much better than mine. Then there is the ridiculous pricing strategy that seems to exist un-checked by anybody.

This really is like the WWW...Wild Wild West. I'm not taken seriously as I am inexperienced and haven't made any sales yet so why should anyone listen to my side of the argument.

I'm of the opinion that they don't want to change the status quo so I think I will just go on doing what I'm doing and let them get on with it. You are not allowed to have a different opinion....know your place boy.

Only time will tell I guess.

Keep fighting the good fight and if they tell you it is day time go outside and check for yourself.

It keeps me off the streets I guess.

Take care and good luck.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Joe N]

Now, let's take a random sample of a domain name which proves why people do not advocate for the use of automated domain appraisal tool. Let's see.... 'Twiddl(.com). You may recognize it. It is a name listed at Brandpa and registered at GD. It is for sale for $2995. Quite expensive for a six figure mis-spelling. It is appraised by Estibot for $240 and GD has it for less than $100. It is no wonder you are not a big fan of auto appraisal tools.

Indeed most of my sales have been for amounts that are above automated appraisal values. Experience has taught me to put little stock into them.

So your experience in the industry has taught you that six-letter brand names of this variety do not typically sell for $3,000?

Just because I have been a domain investor for just over a year does not make me inexperienced in life and maybe you should get down from your ivory tower and credit me with some level of intelligence and accept that maybe someone who doesn't share your own opinion might have some validity.

Of course you're intelligent and have life experience. And I accept that your opinion has validity.

Can you accept that, with only a year of experience and no sales, your opinion on how to value domain names is not as informed as it could be?

The only reason that I am not yet successful by your definition is that I haven't really tried to sell any of my domain names as I don't need to at this moment in time. However, it is my intention to sell a few at some point but I guess it all depends on how desperate I become.

Would you consider me a successful car salesman if I haven't sold any cars? Would you value my advice on how to appraise and sell them?

 

[Reddstagg]

Indeed most of my sales have been for amounts that are above automated appraisal values. Experience has taught me to put little stock into them.

Statistical analysis can only be truly understood when put into context. I discovered this week that 4L domain names were being sold for $5k back in 2013 and many of them are lucky to break through figures today. Obviously there will always be those that are more expensive than others as they actually make sense.

So your experience in the industry has taught you that six-letter brand names of this variety do not typically sell for $3,000?

I hope they do, 'cos sure as heck I'm a millionaire then 'cos of what I have up my sleeve. No, is the answer but it is based on feedback that I have received over the past year from several experienced respectable domainers who have shared their opinions when I have registered similar names.

Of course you're intelligent and have life experience. And I accept that your opinion has validity.

You have to listen to both sides of the story before making your own decisions and my take is that this business needs to clean house now whilst we can or it will be cleaned for us and we may not like the results. You may not agree with my opinion but at least be open to listening to it is all I ask from everyone.

Can you accept that, with only a year of experience and no sales, your opinion on how to value domain names is not as informed as it could be?

I'd have to disagree with you here. The decision to not try to actively sell my domains is part of my structured plan. In the mean time I've engaged with the community and I've read many of the original forum discussions and I believe that they can be a great source of information that is still relevant in today's market. I like everything to have a place and for everything to be in it's place. I'm someone who has actually read the 27 pages of small print attached to my holiday insurance. I'm from a Compliance and Regulatory background so this is my leaning towards domain investing. I always tell people that I am a Domain Investor as I a proud of our industry although it can and should be improved.

Would you consider me a successful car salesman if I haven't sold any cars? Would you value my advice on how to appraise and sell them?

I've never been James Bond, 007 nor have I ever driven a Jaguar or an Aston Martin. However, I do know that the the Jaguar used in one of the films was sold for $1million and that the Aston Martin from an earlier film was sold for $3million. Conversely, although I have sold maybe 30 cars during my 35 years of driving I have never sold a Jaguar or an Aston Martin. Selling a car is clearly very different from knowing how much cars are worth so that doesn't mean that someone who is not old enough to sell cars doesn't know their values.

You'd be surprised what I know about but have never done. Doesn't mean that I cannot learn about them or appraise them successfully.

It always used to bug me when I was younger when buying or selling a car as the dealers had a black book which gave the car trade a guide price for buying or selling a car. The values were always higher when I was buying a car and lower when I was selling a car. They held all the cards, until someone invented Autotrader and the cat was out of the bag.

That's it for now so I hope we can now put this to bed and move on.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Joe N]

I discovered this week that 4L domain names were being sold for $5k back in 2013 and many of them are lucky to break through figures today.

Not all 4L names are created equal. Some of them deserve five figures and more. Some I wouldn't pay $100 for. They are a market within a market. It's important to understand it fully before investing in 4L names.

No, is the answer but it is based on feedback that I have received over the past year from several experienced respectable domainers who have shared their opinions when I have registered similar names.

Feel free to ask them about Twiddl. Just like with 4L names, not all brandable names are created equal. You may think you've registered similar, but you might be wrong.

You have to listen to both sides of the story before making your own decisions

.
Feel free to lead the way in this regard. Tell us what part of the majority argument in this thread has merit.

I'd have to disagree with you here. The decision to not try to actively sell my domains is part of my structured plan.

So as an investor with no sales and one year of experience, you would gauge your experience level as being equal to someone with 5-10 years experience and multiple four-and-five figure sales?

You'd be surprised what I know about but have never done. Doesn't mean that I cannot learn about them or appraise them successfully.[/QUOTE]
Ah, so those who can't do, teach. Fair enough. Maybe actual experience is over-rated? You could revolutionize domain sales without ever making one!

 

[BrandAptly.com]

Good evening.

Firstly, I'm glad that you are keeping well.

I thought I waffled a lot. Cutting through all your flannel I hate to say it but I just don't believe you. If you had an offer for $80k you wouldn't be on here basically trashing your sugar daddy. There is no way on this earth that anyone would turn down this amount of money hoping on a wing and a prayer that they were going to get another $40k and managing at the same time to open the door marked 'Stupid' by insinuating that a perceived respectable businessman has a mistress and that he has spend thousands of dollars on her buying purses. That is a dangerous line to cross.

I await your triumphant announcement on this forum with proof in the not too distant future. I think I may be waiting a long time.

Brandaptly is unprofessional.....don't be like Brandaptly

Regards,

Reddstagg

Fortunately for me, my success in my endeavors isn't hinged on what you believe. Clearly, you and I view the world through VERY different lenses. It will explain the difference in the results we are experiencing. I see where your head is at. I will not let you drag me down there with you. Peace.