poll As a buyer on a scale of 0 to 10 how important is the value assigned by an automated appraisal

[equity78]

Estibot and GoDaddy are the two dominant forces in the automated appraisal space, there are some other players in the game as well. No matter which service is providing the value, how much weight do you give to these services when making a purchase?

 

[Samer]

0, and when people approach me with names for sale and they cite some inflated bot value, it detracts from the amount I'm willing to pay, it's a strike against them because I just assume they're trying to bamboozle me. It hurts the credibility of the seller, in my eyes, to cite ridiculous automated valuations.

Also, it signals to me that they have very unrealistic expectations, so there are times I won't even bother making an offer on a name I otherwise may have been interested in. Now that I think of it, this happens fairly often. There was an okay 4L listed here the other day, but the seller made a huge deal out of pretending it was a real word, talking about how they think it's worth 5 figures etc, so they kind of shot themselves in the foot in terms of getting an offer from me. Which is fine, if they genuinely only wanted xx,xxx for it then it saves us all some time - but if they were just trying to pump the name up, it had the opposite effect.

There have been plenty of names I've been interested in but if someone's telling me they think their 3 week old handreg is worth $2000 according to this or that, it's hard to even get to the table.

So, I guess I actually assign negative value, less than 0.

Just my 0.02, tho.

Edit: I hope the results here are eye-opening from a seller's point of view, nobody cares about these tools except the registrars who sell a bunch of janky domains to newbies who think they can turn $8 into $2000 because some robot told them so.

Post of the year. Just my 0.02. Well said!

Samer

 

[7363824]

I don't identify as a buyer, but if I did, somewhere in the 0-1 range because I'm going to low ball them anyway. Now you want to talk about the seller side, I will quote that price every time it exceeds my BIN/asking price.

Personally I won't even do that. Instead I quote real comparable sales from Namebio, specifically ones that are clearly not wholesale so I often sort from sale from Afternic or BuyDomains ect.

PS There are 6 people (as of now) who have not taken this poll seriously and said something other than 0....

 

[pb]

The specific dollar value - 0

The relative ranking of the domain - 7

For example, if you ran a Stock Market-like game on GD auctions, and I picked 100 domains with valuations of $5K or greater, and you selected 100 domains valued at less than $1K, I can guarantee mine will sell for far more in the open market than yours ever will.

The individual dollar values are spurious, but I always keep an eye on where the domains rank on the relative scale.

Your example does not in any way relate to the original question. Sure, if I browse a list of crapthousand drops, sorting by appraisal value can be handy. But if I want to buy a specific domain, I don't care if it's auto-valued at $0 or $10000. All I care is how much I feel it's worth for me and for how much the current owner is willing to part with it. Any side of the transaction using bot's appraisal as a leverage would be laughable.

 

[OnlineBusiness.com]

As a buyer it’s valuable as it gives me a starting point for my research.

And as a seller probably the same.

But ultimately pricing domains for max selling price is a bit of art and a whole lot of luck...at least that’s my experience.

 

[Robin Hablani]

Appraisal tools just give me an idea of the value of a domain... Then I start analysing further and realise that they overrated the domain...

 

[biggie]

I said 10 cos I'm thinking as an end user buyer rather than as as a domain investor.

Most of the planet has heard of Godaddy so we can use that as a validation tool and an end user who is seriously looking for a domain name has already checked what they may have to pay on GD before they even contact us as the seller.

Knowledge is power and it works for both sides of the equation.

seems like an assumption of or about end-users knowledge,
along with extended assumption that because GoDaddy is well known, that their notoriety gives validation to their appraisal tool.

is everything gd does, validated automatically, stamped kosher, above question..because of their notoriety?
if not, then the appraisal tool isn't either.

and that, would be another side of the equation

imo...

 

[karmaco]

I said 10 cos I'm thinking as an end user buyer rather than as as a domain investor.

Most of the planet has heard of Godaddy so we can use that as a validation tool and an end user who is seriously looking for a domain name has already checked what they may have to pay on GD before they even contact us as the seller.

Knowledge is power and it works for both sides of the equation.

Funny thing with domainers is that if they're buying they write off auto appraisals but if they're selling they always quote the values. Gofigurethatoutnow. com

The end user does not know that those figures GD quotes are predominately wholesale domainer to domainer aftermarket sales. GD doesn’t dictate what we price our names at nor does Estibot no does NameBio. We decide that. You are in a bad position not a position of power if you let some arbitrary tool tell you how to price your names.90 percent of domainers think the valuators are pure crap anyways.

 

[frank-germany]

automated appraisals only serve the company that provides them
thats why they fight for them
and "improve" them constantly


so the random numbers become twice as random over time

be aware:
some registrars ( even the one you love most )
use those random "values" to make you register more domains

 

[Joe N]

There is a bunch of information gathered to appraise a name that is the information your looking at not the price do not dismiss every tool as useless you might just find how often it is searched for or similar names sales history.

Absolutely agree. This poll only addresses the value assigned by the tool.

 

[karmaco]

The GD tool has only been in use for about two years. Domain sales have been going on alot longer than that. People managed to price domains without GD for 30 years.

The tool is a detriment to a person trying to sell to end users (I remember Mr Mann was not happy with the tool—quite loudly)because it does not reflect average end user sales and it shows up on GoDaddy under your ask price. There should be a disclaimer that these are wholesale prices and don’t take this crap tool seriously.

The very fact that it refuses to give sales figures for anything over 25K shows how limited it is. It also has low ability on valuating made up words and future/emerging trends. Anyone defending the tool hasn’t had enough experience to know the tool is not the end all be all on prices.

 

[BrandAptly.com]

I've never tried selling a name by quoting traffic stats. Does it actually work?

I actually wouldn't expect to be able to sell that one for much more than one or two thousand, even after quoting the stats to prospective buyers. Clearly I have a lot to learn about this method.

Would you be able to share details if/when you sell this one? I'd be curious to hear the sales pitch, response, and final sales price.

Most of my sales have come from traffic generating domains. Before this entire crisis peaked, I was moving an average of 5 of them a month at prices ranging from $1k - $2k. They had much less traffic coming from the better variations of their original domain names. Their traffic was being leaked from their own domain names. If they refused to buy it, I sold it to their competitors. Mind you, I have only been domaining since September of last year...part time.

Business owners know how much advertising costs and the type of leads that result from them. If you present the numbers in a fashion that makes sense, you will get the sale. It requires outbound marketing but the sales can be fast. I've sold domains in as fast as 4 days with the right pitch. A lot of these domains will be dismissed by most veteran domainers.

A Chrysler 300 is an ordinary car until you put it next to a beat-up Geo Prism...then it begins to look like a Bentley.

Let's look at these numbers for instance: a good targeted opt-in email list will cost you about $600 per 1k emails. Don't take my word for it. Just shop around. So you will be paying $33k for 55k COLD emails. Then you will have to pay a professional to create your marketing materials and send it out. About 80% of that will reach their inbox if they know what they are doing and maybe 20% might save your info to use in the future.

What I am offering you is 55k unique leads per year who are actively shopping for an attorney. They are being referred to your business by a reputable law firm with a stellar track record. Psychologically, your prospects will project the reputation of the former law firm on you.

Which of the two scenarios is more attractive? The choice is a no-brainer. I will be shooting myself in the foot if I attempt to price this domain. I will just write a sales copy comparing costs of all the alternatives and start a bidding war to let the market dictate the price. Cost of email marketing, cost of advertising on Facebook, cost of advertising on Twitter, etc.

The opening pitch I am playing around with:
Would you like premium referrals from a very reputable law firm that has a solid track record and a cult following?

I have a bot that crawls the yellow pages to find these gems. Right now, a LOT of businesses are letting their domains 'slip' for obvious reasons. I test the domains for 4 days. If it's good, I keep it. If it's not, I get my money back. I know exactly how and where to find my prospects. The key is automation.

The reason most domainers have such low sell-through rates is because the average business owner doesn't understand domains. What they all really understand are leads, clients and customers. You sell them a domain wrapped up in what they understand.

But please, please be careful. You have been cautioned not to be like me. I am 'stupid' and 'unprofessional'.

 

[wurdd]

Ray, could you add an 11 to the poll for me?

 

[D Haynes]

Hi

on namejet,
doesn't matter how much weight you give it "personally"....
it's the other bidders who see the bot value posted right there below the name and if they believe in the bot, then they may bid prices up to and over such amounts.

ie: like when trump said to drink disinfectants, then some folks actually did it.

there is a significant portion of the population who are gullible enough to rely on, and make decisions, based on insufficient information.

and those would be people who use such tools exclusively, to make domain purchases.

imo...

Thats natural selection at work in front of our very eyes.

 

[DomainRecap]

Your example does not in any way relate to the original question.

Well I would counter that the original question is insipid and self-serving.

Anyone who believes that every currency-based domain valuation will be exactly spot-on when it's resold is insane, 100% nuts, and is probably still looking for the Easter Rabbit. I'm getting tired of these stupid questions that are expressly designed to elicit a negative response.

The rational and logical answer to the question will always be 0, so why ask it?

Rather than rehash the same crap, when anyone with an IQ over 2 already knows that any domain valuation system is inherently inexact, I was attempting to demonstrate that valuations can still be useful if you stop ruminating on every single dollar, and instead look at the bigger picture.

 

[YairDD]

0-.

 

[mrm_1]

I use GoDaddy only to see comparable sales, Estibot also provide nice info except price.

 

[King]

Sometimes I look at them, mostly on auction domains but I don't really care as long as the domain is good.

 

[koolishman]

Sometimes I look at them, mostly on auction domains but I don't really care as long as the domain is good.

Well said.

Nothing can beat the " human eye" in a subjective valuation.

 

[Joe N]

You say that third party platforms have sold thousands of such like domains.

The Newbie in me compares that to tens of millions of similar transactions at GD and I know what I put more faith into.

You're not comparing the same thing.

Brandable name third party sites set prices on the names they sell, and people agree to pay them.

The GD appraisal bot does not sell the names it prices.

I think you need to clarify what you mean by GD's "transactions" in this comparison.

 

[lock]

There is a bunch of information gathered to appraise a name that is the information your looking at not the price do not dismiss every tool as useless you might just find how often it is searched for or similar names sales history.

 

[Joe N]

Lots of interesting discussion points there, but I'll try to focus on a couple.

I guess my point is this. Why don't we know how much a domain is worth? Why cannot all the smart people here from business, finance, maths or science backgrounds, or indeed from any background, race, creed, religion or socio-economic standing come up with something that we can all agree on.

Since you say you have a good handle on this business, this is one that you should be able to answer.

The reason is that the domain aftermarket is not regulated. Nothing is stopping anyone from asking whatever price they want for a name. And nothing is stopping a buyer from paying $40K for a name most others would only spend $500 to own. How can a value be computed for something like that?

To make matters worse, every name is unique. Names you think should have similar value often don't, and it likely comes down to no more than:

• the seller's experience and patience; and
• the buyer's resources and personal tastes

I actually think professional athletes make a great comparison for this purpose. Does it bother you that some athletes make $20+ million dollars per year for no other reason except that there are wealthy teams who will pay that amount just to be the best?

These were and continue to be traded as commodities like gold, silver, cadmium or oil.

They are commodities. In addition, they are both assets and liabilities. They are brands. They are property. They are trademarks. They are advertisements. And you can never actually own them!

Nothing in the world is like a domain name. So many factors go into determining the value of any single name for any possible buyer... How could an automated tool ever account for all of it?

It has taken me just one year to get a good handle on domain investing as a business and people are afraid in case the likes of me learn all the secrets and begin to turn the business on its head.

It's quite the dichotomy, don't you think...? On one hand you want to re-invent the industry, but on the other hand you wonder why there isn't a better robot out there to do the hard work for you.

 

[Reddstagg]

My uncle often said that you can't fetch water from a dry well...but when the well is full, use an irrigation pump. The algorithm that drives my personal appraisal tool is how deep my prospect's pocket is, what I perceive his character to be and how tightly I have his gonads in a vise.

I sold a domain to a lovely old lady, which had a Godaddy appraisal value of $950, for $550. If she had asked, I would have sold it to her for much less to make up for all the pet grooming discounts she's given Maverick (my dog).

In another development, I am in the middle of a negotiation right now for a domain I paid $10 for a month ago. The Godaddy appraisal value is $1,067. My asking price is $150k. Yes, it is insane and will probably be considered unethical by some. But that is how I feel about the $62k he spent on 2 Hermes purses (probably made in a sweat shop somewhere by malnourished underage kids) for his mistress. The domain is the exact match of his parent company. His DBA is trademarked, but not the parent company. Why he left the company domain on the table beats me. Why someone also dropped that domain also puzzles me. His last offer was $80k. I won't take anything less than $120k because I can get it either from him or one of his competitors. That is the value my personal appraisal tool has assigned. He should be thankful I gave him the first right of refusal. The breakdown of my pricing: $20 for the domain name: $119,980 for my street-smarts. The education cost me a fortune. What's the point if it doesn't earn me a good living, right?

Based on his last offer, reliance on any appraisal bot will leave almost $79k plus on the table.

A bottle of Paco Rabanne cost $29.99 at Burlington. The same cologne in the same size sells for $80 at Macy's. Guess what appraisal tool was used by the latter in arriving at their price? The 'emotional-bot'...the very tool that gives Louis Vuitton justification to sell purses at $8k for the very same quality purse that Brahmin prices at $250. Bulova watches sell for $70 at TJ Maxx, while Movado watches sell for as much as $4k. They are both made by the same company using the same mechanical components. One word: BRANDING. This is the very business we as domainers are all a part off. How can you effectively use a bot to appraise a brand?

When you take into careful consideration the fact that 80% of all medical conditions are lifestyle related, you realize that doctors prey on the irresponsibility of the masses. The appraisal tool they rely on to set their prices for services is called the 'fear-bot'.

Doctor:
"Hey Mr. Ignorant, you have ulcerative colitis. If I don't go inside you, take out your entire colon and fit you with a colonoscopy bag so you walk around for the rest of your life perpetually smelling like crap, you are going to get stage 4 colon cancer by the time you are 30 years old."
Me:
"Thank you doc, but I will take my chances"

The diagnosis was given to me when I was 22. With some major lifestyle and dietary changes, I am now 47 years old with my colon intact, no colon cancer and extremely mild and rare symptoms of ulcerative colitis. I was one of the few exceptions to the rule. His fear-bot works on most of his patients. Doctors are allowed to 'practice' medicine on patients for their entire career when everyone else has to be a professional at what they do. Why are domainers the vultures with a bad reputation?

I have paid a premium for my street doctorate degree and I am not about to let some bot dictate what my return on investment should be. I sell dreams and ideas fueled by any human emotions I can leverage. Just like Saks does with their cheaply made cotton T-shirts, it's $20 for the hand regged domain and $4k for the overpriced cyber AC your wide nostrils are inhaling in my online luxury boutique. And while you are at it, don't forget to write me a stellar testimonial professing your unbridled loyalty...appraisal bots and all.

Good evening.

Firstly, I'm glad that you are keeping well.

I thought I waffled a lot. Cutting through all your flannel I hate to say it but I just don't believe you. If you had an offer for $80k you wouldn't be on here basically trashing your sugar daddy. There is no way on this earth that anyone would turn down this amount of money hoping on a wing and a prayer that they were going to get another $40k and managing at the same time to open the door marked 'Stupid' by insinuating that a perceived respectable businessman has a mistress and that he has spend thousands of dollars on her buying purses. That is a dangerous line to cross.

I await your triumphant announcement on this forum with proof in the not too distant future. I think I may be waiting a long time.

Brandaptly is unprofessional.....don't be like Brandaptly

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[BrandAptly.com]

Raymond...i already responded once saying that a combination of 3-5 services help me to determine whether or not to buy a domain. Generally I use the following;

1. Go Daddy
2. Estibot/Epik - they are obviously one and the same
3. Free Valuator
4. Nameworth

As others have mentioned, if I were to have to use one it would be Go Daddy because of all the add on's. Even if they didn't provide an appraisal/valuation their "Comparable Domains Sold" feature is worth the price of admission In addition they provide "keyword" analysis and values for keywords.

With regards to Estibot/Epik - to show how pathetic they are, look no further than your list of Sedo sales for this week; Gigafi.com sold for $5,000 and Estibot appraised it at $120, onlyfns.com sold for $2,999 and Estibot appraised it at "0" and bediet.com sold for $2,500 and Estibot appraised it for $260.

What the heck is bediet.com anyway? i own H2ODiet.com and Estibot appraises it for $10
Bottomline, Go Daddy is pretty good and everyone should at least check it out before buying or selling domains.

I purchased a domain name about 5 days ago which formerly belonged to a law firm that folded after 15 years of business (according to info on archive.org). It's a rather obscure lastname+firm.com...10 letters total. I did a 301 redirect to test the traffic. Here are the specifics:

• Godaddy appraisal $1,238
• Listed in the legal section of 400 plus reputable business directories with several good reviews
• Has 4.5 plus star reviews on Yelp, TrustPilot and Google
• Gets an average of 150 visitors a day (estimate 55k/year) from click through and type-in
• Comparable sales on Namebio for domains ending in 'firm' range from $233k to $100
• Total number of attorneys in their home state that I can pitch it to: 32k

In this particular scenario, I'm not just selling a domain name. I am selling the promise of premium targeted traffic resulting from the marketing of a very reputable law firm with a stellar track record. The buyer of the domain simply has to do a 301 redirect to their website and they get 55k prospects a year.

Based on the information above, how do I rely on data from any bots you've mentioned to price this domain name? You really want to tell me that 55k/year premium target prospects generated from the solid marketing of a reputable law firm over a period of 15 years is only worth $1,238?

 

[Joe N]

I purchased a domain name about 5 days ago which formerly belonged to a law firm that folded after 15 years of business (according to info on archive.org). It's a rather obscure lastname+firm.com...10 letters total. I did a 301 redirect to test the traffic. Here are the specifics:

• Godaddy appraisal $1,238
• Listed in the legal section of 400 plus reputable business directories with several good reviews
• Has 4.5 plus star reviews on Yelp, TrustPilot and Google
• Gets an average of 150 visitors a day (estimate 55k/year) from click through and type-in
• Comparable sales on Namebio for domains ending in 'firm' range from $233k to $100
• Total number of attorneys in their home state that I can pitch it to: 32k

In this particular scenario, I'm not just selling a domain name. I am selling the promise of premium targeted traffic resulting from the marketing of a very reputable law firm with a stellar track record. The buyer of the domain simply has to do a 301 redirect to their website and they get 55k prospects a year.

Based on the information above, how do I rely on data from any bots you've mentioned to price this domain name? You really want to tell me that 55k/year premium target prospects generated from the solid marketing of a reputable law firm over a period of 15 years is only worth $1,238?

I've never tried selling a name by quoting traffic stats. Does it actually work?

I actually wouldn't expect to be able to sell that one for much more than one or two thousand, even after quoting the stats to prospective buyers. Clearly I have a lot to learn about this method.

Would you be able to share details if/when you sell this one? I'd be curious to hear the sales pitch, response, and final sales price.