discuss Appraisals 2018 What do they mean? How can they help?

[ThatNameGuy]

I own about 1,850 domains of all kinds that appraise for a little over 1.5 Million dollars. I use a combination of appraisals from Go Daddy and Estibot to value my portfolio. What I find hard to believe is that I just found another company, Nokta Domains, that if I were to run all my domains through their appraisal program, I'm sure my portfolio would appraise for a little over 3 Million dollars.

I asked the question in the title of this thread...What do they mean? It's my opinion they mean very little, but I do find them good enough to rate or score my domains compared to others. Generally, the higher the appraisal from someone like GD, the better the domain

So how can they help?...if you're lucky enough to be able to meet and speak with a lot of end users, appraisals can be a powerful enough tool to help close a deal. How do I know? I'll tell you...but you know what I'll have to do if I tell you

Seriously, I was just telling someone who sent me a DM that end user "domain education" is, and will be the key to my success in this industry. I'm employing sales strategy and sales technique that have proven successful for over 100 years, and selling domains is absolutely no different than selling houses, auto's, boats, computers, B2B or B2C products or services. Common sense, and Sales and Marketing 101 is by far the best teacher.

How do you see industry appraisals helping you to make better buys?... better sales? Thanks, and have a great week. Cheers!

 

[Kate]

There is no evidence that appraisals are helping domain sales.
If they were - we would be seeing a lot more reported sales.

Even end users who are naïve enough to deem appraisals remotely relevant just don't care. The name either fits their (usually low) budget or it doesn't.
It's no surprise that Godaddy is offering its own appraisal service, because they definitely want people to register more domains with them, thinking they are buying valuable assets that will make them rich one day. From the POV of the registrar, every registration is a win regardless of domain quality.

I am a domain buyer too, and if somebody tried to sell me a name based on estibot or whatever I would laugh. Either he doesn't know how to value domains, or he thinks I am a fool.
And it is a double-edged sword: an end user could counter with an appraisal from another source, but tilted towards a lower value, to your disadvantage. In general automated appraisals tend to massively overvalue domain names, but sometimes the opposite is true as well.

They exist for ego boosting, driving registrar sales up, and pushing domainers deep in debt

You just cannot trust a magic figure that comes from a bot, if you don't know how it's been computed, the factors and the algorithms in play. It's more or less as worthless as horoscope.
It's better to look at reported, comparable sales. But many sales are one of a kind, so even comps are of limited usefulness.
Bottom line: selling domain names is more art than science.

 

[w3names]

If we take a look at the stock market, when demand dries up for a stock, the market maker will start to gradually mark the price down until buyers start to appear again - that's a well-functioning market.

Appraisals, however accurate and state-of-the-art they may be, and we know they seldom are, are a static representation of the intrinsic value of the domain that does not take into account recent trends, seasonality, and above all, current market demand.

Having said that, it would be nice to see my portfolio appraised at over a $1M

 

[JB Lions]

I'm employing sales strategy and sales technique that have proven successful for over 100 years, and selling domains is absolutely no different than selling houses, auto's, boats, computers, B2B or B2C products or services. Common sense, and Sales and Marketing 101 is by far the best teacher.

You do realize that if you keep making threads like this, talking about your strategy and sales technique, you'll keep getting questions about what actual sales you've made? That's common sense right? How about you get some sales you're willing to share, THEN post them and the technique behind it.

 

[bmugford]

They don't mean anything. Automated appraisals are worthless.

Brad

 

[Kate]

No, what I'm saying is that I don't believe the 'appraisal' is accurate/relevant/useful. At all. We are all millionaires then.
Automated appraisals are even more pointless in new extensions, because they don't enjoy the end user demand and liquidity that .com and established extensions can muster.

Only two reported sales for .golf. What are the odds you will sell just one, let alone dozens of them ?
You seem to have a fascination with numbers. I prefer numbers that are backed up by cash.

 

[DN_Hunter]

I only wish I could get the GoDaddy Appraisal for my entire portfolio (I would take it in a heartbeat). I understand that a majority of the appraisals are way more than what I will be able to get in real life. But their Appraisal tool does have some value -- they provide some good comps of sales I don't see at Namebio (as someone else mentioend in this thread).

I actually used the GD Appraisal Value along with their Comparable Sales in order to close a deal. It has worked for a couple of my sales. So it can be used to help close a sale. Of course if the GD Valuation is lower than my personal valuation, I don't mention the GD Valuation Tool at all to the prospective buyer.

Regards,
DN

 

[Kate]

Comps are certainly useful. Resources like DNJ or Namebio are essential.
Because some patterns tend to repeat, for example certain keywords may be sought after. But many sales are one of a kind too. Just because a specific name sold doesn't mean that variations of that name, or the exact same domain in a different extension is going to sell.
Domainers are making too many assumptions.

 

[Dave]

I've sold domains for 4 and 5 figs that these worthless appraisal tools valued at 0.

Stay away from these useless appraisal tools. GD values 90% of domains between $1k-2k even if it something ridiculous like ilovechocolatecake.com.

 

[JB Lions]

Why do you think my portfolio appraises for between 1.5M and 2M

Because they're not very good and even more of a struggle with new gtlds. As an example:

appraisals for vacations.horse:
Sedo - $24,999
GoDaddy - $2,245

I can get vacationshorse.com for $8 at GoDaddy.

Do you see the issue?

 

[Kate]

Why do you think my portfolio appraises for between 1.5M and 2M....Great Minds really do think alike

I don't believe it.

But let's assume for a minute each of us could get a somewhat 'accurate' appraisal for all names in our respective portfolios. It's not *liquid* value. Domain names are very illiquid assets and cannot be readily traded like stocks or other financial instruments. Certain types of domains like premiums, LL/LLL.com etc have liquidity and a reseller market. These names can be sold for cash in a relatively short time frame. But we are talking about a super-tiny portion of all registered domains in existence.
The vast majority of registered domains simply have no resale value, or it is very low.

Until an end user actually shows up with checkbook open, the resale value is somewhat theoretical, although some names are clearly better than others.

 

[Satyajit Adhikary]

GD appraisals are much better than the others as they back their appraisals by similar past sales. May be helpful for keyword domains only.

 

[bmugford]

Actually I disagree. I'm a big believer in diversification, and within reason, diversification has served me well in business. I've been told by more than two leaders in the domain industry that I'm a pretty innovative and creative guy, especially when it comes to "names". You might not think that my having started, named, bought and sold 25 plus businesses in my lifetime doesn't count for much, but I know better. I've made a lot of money in my lifetime, and I've lost a fair amount. However, in the big scheme of things, I've invested "peanuts" in a diversified portfolio that appraises for over 1.5M. I also know I'm a good enough sales guy that the return on my "peanuts" will be far better than your prediction. Stay tuned

You say appraisals don't mean anything then at the same time constantly state them to justify the value of your portfolio.

If the appraisals are worthless why do you feel the need to mention them? It makes no sense.

Actual offers and sales are the test of true value, not some automated appraisals.

Brad

 

[ThatNameGuy]

If we take a look at the stock market, when demand dries up for a stock, the market maker will start to gradually mark the price down until buyers start to appear again - that's a well-functioning market.

Appraisals, however accurate and state-of-the-art they may be, and we know they seldom are, are a static representation of the intrinsic value of the domain that does not take into account recent trends, seasonality, and above all, current market demand.

Having said that, it would be nice to see my portfolio appraised at over a $1M

W3Names, your portfolio probably already does appraise for over $1M. Try here: https://www.noktadomains.com/ They claim to use over 200 data elements by which to appraise a single domain. Most of my .com domains appraise for 3K to 5K with Nokta Domains. However, appraisals are all over the place from Estibots program that appraises most two word domains at zero to GD who might appraise the same domain at $1,500. Go figure. Thanks for chiming in, and good luck.

 

[Kate]

The best appraisal (and the only valid one actually) is a sales invoice.

 

[Andrew Knox]

Meh, GoDaddy's Appraisal tool is worth it for the comparable sales alone. I see comps on GoDaddy that I don't see on Namebio. Eg. for nycpainters.com I see chicagopainters, melbournepainters and adelaidepainters, none of which appear on Namebio. Plus even if the actual figures are garbage, I see decent correlation between appraisal amount and name quality for my (.com) portfolio.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Because they're not very good and even more of a struggle with new gtlds. As an example:

appraisals for vacations.horse:
Sedo - $24,999
GoDaddy - $2,245

I can get vacationshorse.com for $8 at GoDaddy.

Do you see the issue?

Meh, GoDaddy's Appraisal tool is worth it for the comparable sales alone. I see comps on GoDaddy that I don't see on Namebio. Eg. for nycpainters.com I see chicagopainters, melbournepainters and adelaidepainters, none of which appear on Namebio. Plus even if the actual figures are garbage, I see decent correlation between appraisal amount and name quality for my (.com) portfolio.

You make a good point Andy, and I even get some pretty good ideas for other domains from GD's comparable sales. Thanks

 

[Kate]

@Kate you're really down on automated appraisals eh?

Domains don't sell because they have nice appraisals so why even bother ?

Kate...I know you have a lot more experience than me in some area's of business, but I have a lot more experience than you in other areas. I suggested a truce with you and some of your comrades last week, but somehow that trial balloon deflated....sorry, I tried

A truce for what ? Have you been at war ?

 

[ThatNameGuy]

My point exactly DN...thanks so much for your input.

 

[eurorealtor]

zje dot com (domain I sold) estibot valuation: $62k / GoDaddy instant appraisal: $16k, choose one

 

[ThatNameGuy]

zje dot com (domain I sold) estibot valuation: $62k / GoDaddy instant appraisal: $16k, choose one

I'll throw in another one for you....NoktaDomains $22,835 Eurorealtor, I guess that was your sale 10/30/2016 listed at Namebio for 60K? Nice!

I'll share a quick story...yesterday I joined a friend I hadn't seen for 50 years for a bike ride around Williamsburg. He just retired from a company called GL Communications. His company email address was, and still is; xxx.gl.com. Yes, his three initials, and gl .com. Before I met him for breakfast, I checked Estibot, and the appraisal for GL .com was $2,080,000. My friend was blown away when I told him this because he was real good friends with the founder of the company who just loved an old time movie from 1940 called Gaslight (thus the GL name). The founder recently passed away, but my friend who was senior management will share it with his former associates. I don't know if they know what they own in the way of a domain name, but I just found it to be an interesting story.

 

[eurorealtor]

I guess that was your sale 10/30/2016 listed at Namebio for 60K? Nice!

Yes, and that's where you should focus, instead of spending for hand regs. I know, it's just $1,99 to $10 per domain, but in 10 years you will figure out you've just flushed $50k down the toilet and made just peanuts.

 

[Josh R]

Hey there Tiger...would it make you happy if I did that? I think we're friends on Linkedin. I'd feel better sharing details of the transaction with you on Linkedin if you care to know. I might even provide you with snipets of information of the business model/plan to develop FirstCarMemories.com if you're real nice. Cheers!

That’s not necessary, but thank you.

Just helping out you and the buyer so that it’s properly transferred. Not updating WHOIS used to create a variety of problems. Now that GDPR is in place, that may no longer matter as much.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I feel that there is value in Estibot and GoValue, but one must never regard them alone as an indication of even relative value. I feel that just because they are automated, does not mean that they are necessarily inferior to human estimates of worth. If you think about it, Google uses automated techniques to do many sophisticated things countless times every second, and we do trust them, for example, to point to the best search results or suggest the best bus or car route between two points. Modern ML/DL results from Google research and others have now become better than medical professionals in predicting certain health results.

So how should one use Estibot and GoValue?
*As a second opinion after your own analysis of the worth of a domain name using information such as inherent name quality, prior sales, search statistics, etc.
*As an easy way to get some of the search and advertising data (Estibot)
*As an easy way to get some related sales (GoValue) beyond those in NameBio, DNPric.es etc.
*As an automated order of thumb estimate that is not subject to your personal biases.

Many domain name buyers will never consider the automated appraisals, but in some cases the information may be helpful in convincing a buyer that the price requested is supported by a view other than your own. I think that by making GoValue openly available, GoDaddy have changed the landscape, and more and more end users are at least checking GoValue before or during negotiations.

Even if you hate automated appraisals (and I know only too well that many NamePros users do!), I feel that if you don't make yourself familiar with the main automated tools, you are missing information that you need to know to be a fully educated domain name investor.

Thanks for reading, and best of luck to you all in your domain investments!

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I feel that there is value in Estibot and GoValue, but one must never regard them alone as an indication of even relative value. I feel that just because they are automated, does not mean that they are necessarily inferior to human estimates of worth. If you think about it, Google uses automated techniques to do many sophisticated things countless times every second, and we do trust them, for example, to point to the best search results or suggest the best bus or car route between two points. Modern ML/DL results from Google research and others have now become better than medical professionals in predicting certain health results.

So how should one use Estibot and GoValue?
*As a second opinion after your own analysis of the worth of a domain name using information such as inherent name quality, prior sales, search statistics, etc.
*As an easy way to get some of the search and advertising data (Estibot)
*As an easy way to get some related sales (GoValue) beyond those in NameBio, DNPric.es etc.
*As an automated order of thumb estimate that is not subject to your personal biases.

Many domain name buyers will never consider the automated appraisals, but in some cases the information may be helpful in convincing a buyer that the price requested is supported by a view other than your own. I think that by making GoValue openly available, GoDaddy have changed the landscape, and more and more end users are at least checking GoValue before or during negotiations.

Even if you hate automated appraisals (and I know only too well that many NamePros users do!), I feel that if you don't make yourself familiar with the main automated tools, you are missing information that you need to know to be a fully educated domain name investor.

Thanks for reading, and best of luck to you all in your domain investments!

I've been playing on the domain playground for less than 365 days, and a day doesn't go by that I don't learn something new. I've registered four new domains in the last two days, a .com, a .club and 2 .golfs. The .com appraises for $1,191, the .club for $187 and the two .golf for $4,240 combined. The total for all four is $5,618 for an "average" of $1,404 per domain. I spent slightly over $18 for all four domains for an "average" cost of $4.50 per.

These appraisals all came from GoValue aka GD, but I can find similar appraisals elsewhere. The point I want to make here is, where else on earth can you buy "intellectual property" that has this much potential? Unlike a lottery ticket, I have plans for these domains, or I wouldn't have wasted my precious crumbs. Anyone who doesn't use them to their advantage fails to realize their true value Thanks Bob