Am I Just Being Overly Cynical?

[fm1234]

I would like to emphatically state that I am not a person who just assumes his domains are the premium ones. That's an annoying and sadly prevalent mindset in this business. However, I decided last year to start culling down my domain portfolio via attrition and sales, since I am primarily a build-and-hold and my dormant domains were piling up, and I am frankly baffled at the contradictory results I've achieved within the domain business vs. what I have done on my own with end user sales.

In 2010 I have not had a single domain accepted at any of the major auction places eg. Latona's list and site. I submitted tons to Bido, most of which never even got ten votes and of those which did, only one ever sold -- at the minimum $28 price.

Meanwhile, I look at the names that go up at Latonas and other sites each week, and the Bido sales back before they went under, and am just baffled. Especially given that I am selling the domains "manually" as it were by prospecting for end users myself.

Just to give a couple of examples:

-->One domain which was rejected by two auction houses, submitted to Bido and didn't even get the ten votes necessary to fail to sell, was the exact keyword match for the #1 most searched phrase on Google for its core keyword. The niche of the domain is a major hobbyist pastime that has been around for more than a hundred years and does not seem to be going anywhere, and which represents a billion+ market in sales of supplies and books and such. Despite the total lack of interest in the domain business in this name, I sold it for $1,200 to an end user in the niche with about ten hours of work spread out over a two-week period.

-->One Spanish-language .net that gets over 300 direct nav hits a month. It was a drop, but Y!Site Explorer says it has no backlinks, and Archive.org has no pages stored for it. According to this (admittedly old) article less than one percent of one percent of SEDO's parked names get more than 10 hits a day, and not all of that is direct nav. So a Spanish language .net getting relatively stellar traffic ... rejected everywhere, even Bido.

-->An English language female first name that is consistently in the top 20-25 most popular names every year, in .tv form. Rejected rejected rejected rejected rejected. Then I sold it myself for $500 to a stripper/soft porn "actress" who goes by that name.

I mean ... I am not an unrealistic person. Most of my domains at end user level, which are selling, are going on a low end from $200 and a high end of $800. I'm pretty happy with the results as far as the per-name ROI goes, but given the workload am looking at about five years or more before I even get through with the domains I have, let alone any others I pick up. I don't take rejections personally -- I just am confused by the more or less total rejection of everything I submit to the pro auction places, especially in light of 1) the largely garbage names that do make it in (and in Latona's case, mainly remain unsold) and 2) the fact that I am selling these names myself, albeit at a snail's pace.

Am I just crying sour grapes here or is there some secret to getting domains accepted of which I am unaware?


Frank

 

[snoop]

Need to state the domains, hard to give any advice without knowing that.

 

[bmugford]

Sometimes it is not about what you know, it is about who you know.

Brad

 

[exsedo]

I have often asked myself the same questions, and not sure I have figured it out yet either.

Heres my thoughts.

In the case of Sedo, I think their selection team have their own criteria for special listings which does not always align with the opinions you would get here at NP's. Also looking at some of the names which do make it to auction there, maybe the sellers have some good friends. Without paid promotion, none but the very best domains are easily seen at Sedo, they have absolutely millions listed, and if they need a wiki to demonstrate their search system, that, to me, says it is a poor tool.
I think the trick is to actually get the domain to auction, where it will have the most exposure, however, to do this, the minimum bid has to be set very low, and there is a risk that it will sell at less than you would like.
The other comment I would make, is that the majority of starting bids may be from domainers, meaning that they would only buy at rock bottom prices, and endusers may only come in at the end of the auction period.

At the other platforms, maybe they are looking at the amount of commission they would earn from a potential sale. If your average sale price is say $500, are they maybe thinking that $50 is not worth it ?

Some would say that placing your domains at auction houses and waiting is not a good approach, and seeking out your own buyers is the way to go. I am beginning to believe this also.
Good Luck.

 

[ComKid]

Congrats on the sales!

Sometimes you just never know. That is one reason why I love this business so much. Hunting sales leads is the best recommendation. Sedo is a good venue to keep them advertised at. The best thing to do is find the people who will need a domain name. Not people who don't yet know the value of a domain because they really see no value in it.

I have never been a twist your arm salesman so I only like dealing with buyers who know what they want.

A couple years ago I was messing around with bulk sales on ebay. Just trying to trim some of the fat from my portfolio. I put like 80 names up for auction with a low minimum bid and a Buy it Now price of around $3000.

No one showed interest in those names. I was disappointed having wasted listing fees of course.

Just a couple months later I ended up selling just one of those 80 names for $2100.

That was a name I initially offered for sale at $1200 and the business who was interested..... asked if I would take $2100??? . How can you turn that down?

I made out on that domain name but most importantly I made a friend in the business who is now one of the biggest internet web development companies around. That was the last time I offered bulk domains up like that on ebay.

 

[JB Lions]

Kind of related and a thread I was thinking of starting. With those that have sites to sell their domains (planning to get one myself) there really seems to be a lack of marketing among them and they look like they're geared mainly towards other domainers. When I think there are things that can be done to target not only other domainers but those end users everybody wants.

 

[snoop]

Kind of related and a thread I was thinking of starting. With those that have sites to sell their domains (planning to get one myself) there really seems to be a lack of marketing among them and they look like they're geared mainly towards other domainers. When I think there are things that can be done to target not only other domainers but those end users everybody wants.

If people want active marketing to enduser they'd need to it themselves rather than hoping someone else will do it for them.

It is a huge amount of work for an indefinite sale and nobody is going to do it for 10% unless it is a 6 figure domain, they'd probably need to charge 90% commission for the average $500-$1000 sale on a name that might get 10% of that at auction because the marketing is most of the value add, not the name.

Think of it like this, for the people who think auction sites should market to enduser, would you ring endusers, send out emails, do research for a potential $50-$100 commission if you can get a sale?

 

[JB Lions]

I think you might have misread what I meant. I'm talking about sites kind of like Brad's above (his has more than the usual ones). Sites domainers make for the sole purpose of selling domains. And I'm talking short and sweet, not some long, drawn out marketing. Most of the time, all I see is the domain name, and how much it's selling for. Some domains sell themselves, with some, you can do a little marketing to push it forward. Finding end users, emailing etc is one way. Getting the domain pages SEO'd where the end users can find your site and when they get there, a little marketing, selling them on the domain.

 

[snoop]

Most of the time, all I see is the domain name, and how much it's selling for. Some domains sell themselves, with some, you can do a little marketing to push it forward. Finding end users, emailing etc is one way. Getting the domain pages SEO'd where the end users can find your site and when they get there, a little marketing, selling them on the domain.

Who is going to try and actively market domains for a 10% commission though? Or even a 50% commission? And what do you mean by "a little marketing"?

The domain industry decided long ago it doesn't work to try and market to endusers for small commission. If someone can get a sale for $1000 on a name that is worth $100 on the wholesale market then they probably deserve a $900 commission. If they are getting less than that they might as well be buying names themselves and selling those.

 

[JB Lions]

Where are you getting this 10% commission stuff from? I'm saying you own domain names, you have a page for each one on a site and try to sell them for whatever.

As an example, and I'm still thinking of possible ways to do this with domain names.

Let's say Rick wants a domain with his name.

Rick.com is owned by Rick Dees. He probably isn't going to give it up and a first name .com is going to be out of reach for the average person, if it's even for sale in the first place.

So sell them on one of the other extensions. Point out some of the prices of the other name.com, making the other extension look even better. That kind of thing.

As far as domain industry in the past. Not really concerned with that. Most probably aren't that good at marketing, (some are)some I've seen top domainers not have a clue about SEO etc. Sometimes it's good to break out of the little domainer bubble and try some things on your own, not just do what everybody else is doing.

 

[snoop]

Where are you getting this 10% commission stuff from?

What % are you willing to pay to someone to actively market your name?

I'm saying you own domain names, you have a page for each one on a site and try to sell them for whatever.

As an example, and I'm still thinking of possible ways to do this with domain names.

Let's say Rick wants a domain with his name.

Rick.com is owned by Rick Dees. He probably isn't going to give it up and a first name .com is going to be out of reach for the average person, if it's even for sale in the first place.

So sell them on one of the other extensions. Point out some of the prices of the other name.com, making the other extension look even better. That kind of thing.

Sedo does this type of thing already. Type rick.com and it lists all the other extension + related names.

As far as domain industry in the past. Not really concerned with that. Most probably aren't that good at marketing, (some are)some I've seen top domainers not have a clue about SEO etc. Sometimes it's good to break out of the little domainer bubble and try some things on your own, not just do what everybody else is doing.

The thing is you are saying make changes, do SEO, market to endusers, it has all been done before. If you really think you have some good ideas, instead of telling others to adopt them, do it yourself.

 

[JB Lions]

"What % are you willing to pay to someone to actively market your name?"

What are you talking about? I don't think you're following at all, even gave you an example above and still not getting it.

Sedo is nothing like what I'm talking about.

"do it yourself."

That's the plan. Said that as well in my other post.

 

[snoop]

"What % are you willing to pay to someone to actively market your name?"

What are you talking about? I don't think you're following at all, even gave you an example above and still not getting it.

Sedo is nothing like what I'm talking about.

"do it yourself."

That's the plan. Said that as well in my other post.

I guess another thing to keep in mind is endusers do not window shop. They know what they want. Someone who wants rick.com probably has little interest in rick.info. A buyer will typically have one or two preferred names, if they can't get those they'll brainstorm further. You can try and sell to them but it won't likely be for super high prices. So when you see those sale sites with dozens of names, in terms of any sales pitch it really is only ever going to appeal to domainers.

 

[JB Lions]

"Someone who wants rick.com probably has little interest in rick.info."

Most end users have no idea what something like that will cost and when they do, they tend to get sticker shock. I have small nephews where their names are all 3 letters. Their name.com forget it. I think people not in domaining, when they find out what some of these names are going for, will take a look at these other extensions. I've had a little experience with that. Of course they would want the .com but when they find out they can get another extension, with their name and something like a new car with it, for the same the price as a .com, it's pretty appealing. Rick.me is up at GD now and it's probably going to be pretty reasonable.

We just might be thinking of different end users.

 

[.X.]

Sometimes it is not about what you know, it is about who you know.

Brad

Agreed, Further to say, In this industry it is "All" about who you know, And who is willing to work with you.

My advice fm1234, Stick your head directly into the domain market fire, Use due diligence, Ethics are your best friend, However when it's deemed necessary, eat before you are eaten, Don't worry, you will make some enemies a long the way lol. But they don't matter, It's an ego thing with them, Keep your sales to yourself, don't post em on any forums or talk about your sales.

 

[snoop]

"Someone who wants rick.com probably has little interest in rick.info."

Most end users have no idea what something like that will cost and when they do, they tend to get sticker shock. I have small nephews where their names are all 3 letters. Their name.com forget it. I think people not in domaining, when they find out what some of these names are going for, will take a look at these other extensions. I've had a little experience with that. Of course they would want the .com but when they find out they can get another extension, with their name and something like a new car with it, for the same the price as a .com, it's pretty appealing. Rick.me is up at GD now and it's probably going to be pretty reasonable.

We just might be thinking of different end users.

If the above was true the world would be full of alt extension domains. When someone can't get their first choice they brainstorm further. They don't just say "well if rick.com is is too expensive I'll take rick.me", they'll start adding keywords on the end or at the start eg rickcorporation.com, ricktoday.com, rickisthebest.com. Going for a .me would be a massive stretch that few would ever take.

 

[JB Lions]

Not really. People do buy their first name in other extensions, .us .me etc. And yes, they can add other keywords, they might do what I do, add their last name. There's just not one market out there. They do what you suggested and what I've done, they also buy alternate extensions.

 

[bmugford]

I rarely sell to domainers or on domainer venues. At least 95% of my sales are directly to end users and most of those are from people contacting me.

I can tell you from first hand experience that there are buyers for premium keywords in alternate extensions.

Some recent sales CloudComputing.info / Herbs.biz / ChildCare.us and many others. All for solid end user prices.

What matters is ROI. If you can buy a premium keyword for $200 and sell it for $1500 that you are doing pretty well.

Not all end users are going to go for an inferior .COM - some are, but many choose a top tier keyword in another respected extension.

Brad

 

[DU]

They don't just say "well if rick.com is is too expensive I'll take rick.me", they'll start adding keywords on the end or at the start eg rickcorporation.com, ricktoday.com, rickisthebest.com. Going for a .me would be a massive stretch that few would ever take.

Funny that the owner of Rick.me is Rick Roberts. Maybe he didn't like rickisthebest.com

I'm going to guess that the new owner of Rick.me will be called Rick if the price goes over $100.

Check out Randy.me, Ken.me .. these are the two first names I chose. The recent first name auction I think would have been almost wholly people buying their own name.

 

[.X.]

I rarely sell to domainers or on domainer venues. At least 95% of my sales are directly to end users and most of those are from people contacting me.

I can tell you from first hand experience that there are buyers for premium keywords in alternate extensions.

Some recent sales CloudComputing.info / Herbs.biz / ChildCare.us and many others. All for solid end user prices.

What matters is ROI. If you can buy a premium keyword for $200 and sell it for $1500 that you are doing pretty well.

Not all end users are going to go for an inferior .COM - some are, but many choose a top tier keyword in another respected extension.

Brad

Ditto, Agreed 100%