Alter.com Marketplace

[Deven Patel]

Hi all,

I wanted to introduce a new premium domain marketplace we just launched called Alter. I would love to hear your thoughts! As the world’s largest community of domainers, your feedback would be invaluable.

Let me introduce myself. Although I’m new to NamePros, I’ve been around the block. I’ve been buying and selling domains for my own startup ideas for over 20 years. As a serial entrepreneur, I founded a number of startups across various industries like marketing, web hosting, social networking, blogging, and SaaS. This experience has helped me understand how indispensable a brand name is to a business.

Most new entrepreneurs don’t think twice about their company name. Our goal is to change that! A brand name literally has the power to make or break their business. This is more true today than ever before now that there are countless alternatives to every product or service imaginable. Sure, every business may have their own world-changing differentiator but from the outside they all look the same at which point the main differentiator ends up becoming their brand name. In a world full of distractions, we no longer have the attention span to thoroughly research what we buy so we rely on our emotions. This is why large businesses like Apple and Amazon spend billions on their “brand” alone because they understand that customer perception is everything.

Anyway, I noticed that most marketplaces that exist today are focused more on the seller rather than the buyer. Our goal is to reverse the equation and prioritize buyers because I think they are the key to success in any industry. The domain industry is no exception. Without buyers, there’s no money. This is why we’ve made it our mission to help entrepreneurs succeed!

And what’s with the 30-35% commission rate most of these marketplaces are charging? Unless they’re doing more work than a human broker, I don’t think anything over the industry average of 15-20% is warranted. We’re changing that. Alter has one of the lowest rates in the industry, an all-inclusive 10% commission fee when a name sells. There are no other fees or restrictions.

What do you think? Are we on the right track or barking up the wrong tree?

Deven

This was a promoted post.​

 

[Deven Patel]

Ceteris paribus. This is only true, if the way traffic is measured, is exactly the same across marketplaces. In practice, marketplaces have different methods regarding repeat visits, bot traffic, url redirects, etc. And even then, you will be testing in different periods. But apart from this, you have a good point.

Can you tell us some more about how/what traffic is counted and presented in the Alter dashboard?

You are absolutely correct sir. But since there's no other way to accurately make a comparison, I think traffic gets you pretty close. My assumption here is that all marketplaces would have very similar criteria when it comes to tracking traffic. Maybe not?

For Alter, we try to filter out all bot visits through multiple approaches. Two of the most effective methods are user-agent checks server-side and using JavaScript client-side. Ultimately, the goal is to only capture real human visitors (unique visitors so no repeats). We then report redirects vs marketplace traffic right on the dashboard so sellers can see how much of their traffic came in via type-ins vs Alter's marketing efforts.

 

[Charybdis]

Can you tell us some more about how/what traffic is counted and presented in the Alter dashboard?

https://www.namepros.com/threads/alter-com-marketplace.1208387/page-18#post-8247845

 

[Future Sensors]

You are absolutely correct sir. But since there's no other way to accurately make a comparison, I think traffic gets you pretty close. My assumption here is that all marketplaces would have very similar criteria when it comes to tracking traffic. Maybe not?

For Alter, we try to filter out all bot visits through multiple approaches. Two of the most effective methods are user-agent checks server-side and using JavaScript client-side. Ultimately, the goal is to only capture real human visitors (unique visitors so no repeats). We then report redirects vs marketplace traffic right on the dashboard so sellers can see how much of their traffic came in via type-ins vs Alter's marketing efforts.

Thank you for providing this background @Deven Patel.

I think that's a pretty good way of tracking.

DAN also filters pretty heavy non-human traffic from their statistics. DAN's optional Google Analytics integration shows all traffic by default, but you can filter out any traffic there as well.

At Sedo there are different methods between traffic measured/displayed on Sedo parked landers, and Sedo for sale landers. It's documented somewhere in a posting from Sedo on this forum.

Afternic still does not provide any traffic stats for the new ns5/ns6 BIN landers, but they're working on an improved interface.

Other marketplaces all have their own methods with slightly different variables, and it's indeed interesting to know more about the exact methods used when comparing marketplaces. A lot of users on this forum are just comparing these numbers without any context.

(In general) it can be useful to know which crawlers are indexing your site, and how often they do this. Not all crawlers are the same. Some are security scanners to check content per company policy, some are scanning for exploits, some are checking for developed domains and trademark issues, some are just indexing your site in search engines...

Often we only want to see human traffic. But even the interpretation of human traffic is difficult. A domain can sell after 1 successful visit, another after 3,926 visits. The way I use statistics from domain marketplaces, is to detect differences in traffic within my complete portfolio. Are there technical problems that I have to fix when there are exactly 0 visitors over a longer period? Why are some domains getting way more traffic than other domains in the same category? What are the differences between TLDs? Etcetera.

 

[Charybdis]

Thank you for providing this background @Deven Patel.

I think that's a pretty good way of tracking.

DAN also filters pretty heavy non-human traffic from their statistics. DAN's optional Google Analytics integration shows all traffic by default, but you can filter out any traffic there as well.

At Sedo there are different methods between traffic measured/displayed on Sedo parked landers, and Sedo for sale landers. It's documented somewhere in a posting from Sedo on this forum.

Afternic still does not provide any traffic stats for the new ns5/ns6 BIN landers, but they're working on an improved interface.

Other marketplaces all have their own methods with slightly different variables, and it's indeed interesting to know more about the exact methods used when comparing marketplaces. A lot of users on this forum are just comparing these numbers without any context.

(In general) it can be useful to know which crawlers are indexing your site, and how often they do this. Not all crawlers are the same. Some are security scanners to check content per company policy, some are scanning for exploits, some are checking for developed domains and trademark issues, some are just indexing your site in search engines...

Often we only want to see human traffic. But even the interpretation of human traffic is difficult. A domain can sell after 1 successful visit, another after 3,926 visits. The way I use statistics from domain marketplaces, is to detect differences in traffic within my complete portfolio. Are there technical problems that I have to fix when there are exactly 0 visitors over a longer period? Why are some domains getting way more traffic than other domains in the same category? What are the differences between TLDs? Etcetera.

So the TL;DR version of your post is suggesting to implement Google Analytics integration.

 

[Future Sensors]

So the TL;DR version of your post is suggesting to implement Google Analytics integration.

Hi @Charybdis

Alter is already using Google Analytics integration for internal purposes, using a fixed UA. I think such a Google Analytics integration for individual sellers is (only) a 'nice to have' at this time, without any priority. GA will be overkill for most users, and the added benefit of adding GA to making better decisions is doubtful in most situations. Not all, but most situations.

While I'm here, I'd rather prefer Alter devote time to making it easier to update user portfolios through CSV.

• CSV download+upload for domains, pricing, descriptions, tags, categories, casing.
• CSV download for daily statistics (visitors, favorites) for all domains in portfolio.

 

[Charybdis]

A minor bug, I can't enter quotation marks in the description, for example this is not allowed:

A great name based on the word "example".

I get this error:

Please make sure the description only contains letters

 

[Deven Patel]

A minor bug, I can't enter quotation marks in the description, for example this is not allowed:

A great name based on the word "example".

I get this error:

Please make sure the description only contains letters

Try single quotes.

Example: A great name based on the word 'example'.

 

[Deven Patel]

@Future Sensors @Charybdis

Your comments regarding Google Analytics sparked my interest so I did a quick comparison of the traffic between the two using a random sample of 20 domains.

Individually, there was a variation of around +/-20% but overall, the difference was very small (~2%). See attached data. So it seems like our tracking algo is pretty much on par with Google Analytics.

 

[Charybdis]

Try single quotes.

Example: A great name based on the word 'example'.

Thanks, that worked.

However in US English double quotation marks are more common.

And in fact, curly quotes are the nicest way to use quotation marks, not straight quotes. So this is the nicest way to use the quotation marks:

A great name based on the word “example”.

But this is not allowed.

 

[ktyong]

Hi!
I was recently sold the domain xxxxx.org on alter.com for $6804 in 12 month installments.
I used several sites such as Sedo, Afternic, Godaddy, Dan, Epic etc.
Recently changed the parking of 350 domains to alter.com.
There seems to be a definite advantage to installment sales.
A number of inquiries and negotiations are currently underway.
I hope alter.com will rapidly expand the market and lead the market.

 

[Recons.Com]

High quality to us means the name is short, catchy, memorable, pronounceable, and easy to spell. A name great companies and products can be built on like Google, Yahoo, PayPal, Stripe, Apple, Amazon, Subway, Blue Origin, SpaceX, Coinbase, NamePros, etc. Here are some examples of what we consider high quality.

I see what you did there. Ranking by price is misleading. The default "Relevance" shows completely different picture.

On the first page there are names like wolf/ora, ka/aft, app/rila, zur/ova, v/esert, furn/ixo, salary/leap, gil/ur, joi/ti, gift/glad, oro/min, flavor/spin etc. that are at best hand-reg quality. How they are premium in your definition of it (apparently, you claim that you guys are very selective in your premiums) and, more importantly, why you think they are so good that they should be on the first page by relevance is just beyond me.

I mean, it is your site and you can do whatever you like, but please don't claim that Alter is somehow super-selective in quality. The names on your FIRST page are nowhere near your examples above like yahoo, google, paypal, stripe, subway, blue origin, spacex, coinbase, namepros etc. They are similar to yahoo/va, googol/rila, stripe/leap, subway/glad, blu/oromin, apple/spin, amazon/ur, coinbase/ti etc.

 

[Charybdis]

I see what you did there. Ranking by price is misleading. The default "Relevance" shows completely different picture.

On the first page there are names like wolf/ora, ka/aft, app/rila, zur/ova, v/esert, furn/ixo, salary/leap, gil/ur, joi/ti, gift/glad, oro/min, flavor/spin etc. that are at best hand-reg quality. How they are premium in your definition of it (apparently, you claim that you guys are very selective in your premiums) and, more importantly, why you think they are so good that they should be on the first page by relevance is just beyond me.

I mean, it is your site and you can do whatever you like, but please don't claim that Alter is somehow super-selective in quality. The names on your FIRST page are nowhere near your examples above like yahoo, google, paypal, stripe, subway, blue origin, spacex, coinbase, namepros etc. They are similar to yahoo/va, googol/rila, stripe/leap, subway/glad, blu/oromin, apple/spin, amazon/ur, coinbase/ti etc.

But you selected "relevance" without entering any search keyword, it is pointless. You should enter a keyword into the search field, and then select "sort by relevance".

Or if you don't enter any keyword and you want to see the most popular, or best names, then use the sort by most popular option: https://alter.com/names?sort=popular

 

[Recons.Com]

But you selected "relevance" without entering any search keyword, it is pointless. You should enter a keyword into the search field, and then select "sort by relevance".

Or if you don't enter any keyword and you want to see the most popular, or best names, then use the sort by most popular option.

I understand that you are either a fanboy or an insider, right?

First, searching by relevance is very relevant in this case. Because, that is basically the default view when a visitor clicks on "more business names" on index page and comes to alter.com/names. This is the HIGHEST exposure view. As most clients won't change the navigation and/or for the ones that do the views would be split among other choices. I mean, come on! Fro/ban and Joi/ti and Just/rix next to Pan?

If they are not relevant, why they are first by "Relevance" for no keyword? And no keyword is perfectly fine for a startup owner that looks for an abstract name or is not sure what direction he is going in namewise.

Second, sorting by popular, is not much better. "Top names" include celc/om, rea/nix, app/nor, bill/axa, show/brook, pro/zom, jiz/ax, Niro/si, hu/tiva etc. On the FIRST page, Carl!!!

 

[karmaco]

I understand that you are either a fanboy or an insider, right?

First, searching by relevance is very relevant in this case. Because, that is basically the default view when a visitor clicks on "more business names" on index page and comes to alter.com/names. This is the HIGHEST exposure view. As most clients won't change the navigation and/or for the ones that do the views would be split among other choices. I mean, come on! Fro/ban and Joi/ti and Just/rix next to Pan?

If they are not relevant, why they are first by "Relevance" for no keyword? And no keyword is perfectly fine for a startup owner that looks for an abstract name or is not sure what direction he is going in namewise.

Second, sorting by popular, is not much better. "Top names" include celc/om, rea/nix, app/nor, bill/axa, show/brook, pro/zom, jiz/ax, Niro/si, hu/tiva etc. On the FIRST page, Carl!!!

I am going to have to agree. My main problem with Alter is we have very different ideas about what is a premium name. I do not have this issue with the other sites. I just gave up after they reject great name after great name and put these mediocre names as “premium”.

 

[Charybdis]

I understand that you are either a fanboy or an insider, right?

First, searching by relevance is very relevant in this case. Because, that is basically the default view when a visitor clicks on "more business names" on index page and comes to alter.com/names. This is the HIGHEST exposure view. As most clients won't change the navigation and/or for the ones that do the views would be split among other choices. I mean, come on! Fro/ban and Joi/ti and Just/rix next to Pan?

If they are not relevant, why they are first by "Relevance" for no keyword? And no keyword is perfectly fine for a startup owner that looks for an abstract name or is not sure what direction he is going in namewise.

Second, sorting by popular, is not much better. "Top names" include celc/om, rea/nix, app/nor, bill/axa, show/brook, pro/zom, jiz/ax, Niro/si, hu/tiva etc. On the FIRST page, Carl!!!

Quality is subjective, I think these are great domains.

I see one of my premium domains listed on the first page. Isn't your problem that your names are not listed on the first page? Would you complain if your names were listed on the first page?

I think the algorithm takes into the account the number of visitors and/or number of likes. I see that my most favorited domain name in my portfolio is ranked on the first page.

Ultimately the customers should decide what is good quality. Try to list domains which will gain enough likes by end users. End users matter only.

If you think that these are shitty domains, then why not list your superior domains, get first page rankings and get some sales?

 

[loredan]

I am going to have to agree. My main problem with Alter is we have very different ideas about what is a premium name. I do not have this issue with the other sites. I just gave up after they reject great name after great name and put these mediocre names as “premium”.

Same here, I stopped submitting long ago, still scratch my head trying to figure out how the owner claimed his marketplace is only for top quality, super premium names yet average names are listed as premiums all over the place.

I see for example Manggo dot com being listed, I submitted in the past a lot of double letter names previously accepted at BB or BR and absolutely every single one has been rejected, yet manggo is there and I'm sure there might be some others as well.

 

[loredan]

I understand that you are either a fanboy or an insider, right?

First, searching by relevance is very relevant in this case. Because, that is basically the default view when a visitor clicks on "more business names" on index page and comes to alter.com/names. This is the HIGHEST exposure view. As most clients won't change the navigation and/or for the ones that do the views would be split among other choices. I mean, come on! Fro/ban and Joi/ti and Just/rix next to Pan?

If they are not relevant, why they are first by "Relevance" for no keyword? And no keyword is perfectly fine for a startup owner that looks for an abstract name or is not sure what direction he is going in namewise.

Second, sorting by popular, is not much better. "Top names" include celc/om, rea/nix, app/nor, bill/axa, show/brook, pro/zom, jiz/ax, Niro/si, hu/tiva etc. On the FIRST page, Carl!!!

I just had a look at the alter.com/names page, about half of the names listed on the best traffic page are a joke imo ... I see looplix and I wonder if they know what loo means in the UK

 

[Deven Patel]

Wow, so much animosity. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

It's interesting, a number of other marketplace executives I've had the pleasure of chatting with so far seem jaded against sellers. I'm beginning to see why.

Rather than criticize something you don't fully understand, why not offer constructive feedback that can actually help everyone? Ideas are easy, execution is hard, my friends.

Regardless of your intent, I do appreciate all your thoughts. So thank you!

Now let me address all your concerns the best I can below.

I see what you did there. Ranking by price is misleading. The default "Relevance" shows completely different picture.

On the first page there are names like wolf/ora, ka/aft, app/rila, zur/ova, v/esert, furn/ixo, salary/leap, gil/ur, joi/ti, gift/glad, oro/min, flavor/spin etc. that are at best hand-reg quality. How they are premium in your definition of it (apparently, you claim that you guys are very selective in your premiums) and, more importantly, why you think they are so good that they should be on the first page by relevance is just beyond me.

I mean, it is your site and you can do whatever you like, but please don't claim that Alter is somehow super-selective in quality. The names on your FIRST page are nowhere near your examples above like yahoo, google, paypal, stripe, subway, blue origin, spacex, coinbase, namepros etc. They are similar to yahoo/va, googol/rila, stripe/leap, subway/glad, blu/oromin, apple/spin, amazon/ur, coinbase/ti etc.

You my friend are the one who suggested in another post that I put myself in your shoes. Yet, when you have something to say you completely neglect your own advice.

In the case of premium, ranking by price is NOT misleading because those are all curated names. Generally speaking, the highest quality names will have the highest appraisals (i.e. think one-word dictionary domains). However, just because they're high quality doesn't mean they'll sell quick. As you may know, impulse buys occur in the $2-3k range. This is why our first page shows different results.

Our relevance/ranking algorithm takes into account a number of things like the name's length, extension, keywords, price, popularity, etc. We're also constantly fine-tuning the algo based on buyer feedback. Although I appreciate your thoughts, you have to understand that seller feedback is often very biased towards their own names.

I completely agree that a number of premium names listed on our marketplace aren't that high quality but have you really thought about why that might be? When we first started out, we needed to ramp up our inventory very quick in order to compete against other marketplaces with 50-100X more names. So we had to make sacrifices on the quality front. Do you suggest we downgrade those existing listings now to help you feel better?

I mean, if you guys are willing to list ultra-premium dictionary names worth 6-7 figures with Alter, those would be the only names listed as premium right now.

And since you selectively chose examples that fit your narrative from our first page, let me selectively choose a few that fit mine.. P/an, Le/ek, No/ol, Ni/dom, Yi/xe, Le/za, Gi/lur, Ly/be, Tee/ro, So/tel. You don't think these are quality names? You have to look at both sides of the story. Algos aren't perfect.

I understand that you are either a fanboy or an insider, right?

Really? The first thought that comes to your mind when you hear something against your narrative is that it must be shilling? Why so much hate against someone you barely know?

First, searching by relevance is very relevant in this case. Because, that is basically the default view when a visitor clicks on "more business names" on index page and comes to alter.com/names. This is the HIGHEST exposure view. As most clients won't change the navigation and/or for the ones that do the views would be split among other choices. I mean, come on! Fro/ban and Joi/ti and Just/rix next to Pan?

I understand why you would think that but it's wrong. The "All Names" page is nowhere near the highest traffic page. It receives ~5% of the views compared to the homepage/category pages/keyword pages. Again, you're letting your personal feelings get the best of you.

Second, sorting by popular, is not much better. "Top names" include celc/om, rea/nix, app/nor, bill/axa, show/brook, pro/zom, jiz/ax, Niro/si, hu/tiva etc. On the FIRST page, Carl!!!

The name Cel/com is being used by a company generating over $1 billion in revenue. But you think the name is low quality?

When you sort by "popular", our algorithm looks at the names' popularity to sort them. How else do you think we should sort them? Please offer any valuable insights you have. I'm happy to listen.

I am going to have to agree. My main problem with Alter is we have very different ideas about what is a premium name. I do not have this issue with the other sites. I just gave up after they reject great name after great name and put these mediocre names as “premium”.

I think you're completely missing the fact that all our names are pretty much marketed just the way premium names are on other marketplaces. So it isn't necessary for a domain to be labeled premium in order for it to receive exposure. It's no different than our competitors. The only difference is that the competitors label all their names as premium to make you feel better.

Would you rather have us charge 30% commission and accept 100K names like our competitors? Paying 3X lower commission in return for losing a label doesn't seem that bad to me. Unless it is?

Same here, I stopped submitting long ago, still scratch my head trying to figure out how the owner claimed his marketplace is only for top quality, super premium names yet average names are listed as premiums all over the place.

As I mentioned above, the reason is simple. Because those are all the names we have or they were accepted when we were first starting out when we needed to quickly increase our inventory. If you own better names, list them with us. We would love to make them premium eligible.

I see for example Manggo dot com being listed, I submitted in the past a lot of double letter names previously accepted at BB or BR and absolutely every single one has been rejected, yet manggo is there and I'm sure there might be some others as well.

Have you tried Googling the phrase? 1.3M+ results. Just because a name has double letters doesn't automatically make it a good name.

I just had a look at the alter.com/names page, about half of the names listed on the best traffic page are a joke imo ... I see looplix and I wonder if they know what loo means in the UK

Keyword: In your opinion. Case closed.

As I mentioned above, the "All Names" page is nowhere near the highest traffic page. It receives ~5% of the views compared to the homepage/category pages/keyword pages.

Seems to me like majority of this animosity arises because every seller thinks their own names are better than the rest. So let me run this idea by you guys off the top of my head.. instead of us picking premium names, what if we let the sellers decide themselves by paying 1% of the domain's list price to upgrade their name? For example, if you want to list a domain priced at $3k as premium, you would pay a fee of $30. How does that sound? Put your money where your mouth is?

Listen you guys, I know how easy it is to criticize others especially when things don't work out the way we want them to. I understand being nice is hard but it's historically proven to be effective. Putting that hard work in generally results in a better society.

Anyway, as I said countless times before I'm always happy to listen to all your feedback and incorporate it into our marketplace if it makes sense. But we can't do that if you don't offer constructive feedback.

At the end of the day, we're trying to offer more value than any other marketplace at 10% commission. Let's not lose sight of that.

Otherwise, you are all more than welcome to start your own marketplaces and compete against Alter if you think you can do a better job.

 

[Deven Patel]

One of the most popular requests we've received from sellers was the ability to add better logos to their domain listings. Well, now you can!

We're excited to announce that you can now order professional logos for all your domains for just $5 each. You can even upload your own logos if you like for free.

Additionally, domains using either a professional or uploaded logo will appear higher in search results right next to premium listings. It's a fantastic way to highlight quality names!

So moving forward, here are the three types of logos you can add to your domain listings:

• Basic Logos: Created using our easy-to-use logo editor.
• Professional Logos: Created by our professional designers.
• Uploaded Logos: Created by you based on your own vision.

Just like before, when you list new domains, our platform will continue to automatically create basic logos for them. But now you have the additional options to either have our designers create a professional logo for $5 or upload your own for free.

You can do this by clicking on the "Edit Logo" button found next to each domain in your Alter control panel. You can even switch between the different types of logos if you change your mind later.

For professional logos, you will have the opportunity to specify your own criteria. Logo payments will be deducted from your account balance which can be topped off using any major credit card.

We're confident that these new features will improve our marketplace and ultimately generate more sales. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to reach out to us at any time.

 

[Charybdis]

We're excited to announce that you can now order professional logos for all your domains for just $5 each. You can even upload your own logos if you like for free.

Great! Alter is innovating fast indeed.

I see that you will review the user-submitted logos. Please don't allow crap logos, only allow logos which are at least as good as the existing logos. One strength of Alter is the great-looking logos, I hope you won't allow worse logos than the current ones.

Adding account funds: what if I need a proper tax receipt? Would be good if I could enter my company name, address and tax/VAT number, and then you would automatically send me the proper tax invoice, issued by your company, including my full billing details.