.al cctld Albania Domain Dispute Issues

[-AR-]

Hi,

I wonder if you can guys can help with some advice. I registered a number of .al domains over the years and one of them turned out to be popular because it is the same name as a newspaper in Albania. The domain is very generic in the albanian language. So I was contacted by the a representative of the newspaper (they own the .com) and asked for the price, they offered 15usd for the domain and I refused and gave them my expected price. This was on Tuesday this week. By Friday AKEP (Albanian's domain governing body) had prepared a case and decided against me making a number of mistakes and false statements on their decision making document. The newspaper that wants the domain is owned by an ex Albanian Member of Parliament with a lot of influence in the country.

The registrar simply sent me a message stating that AKEP have decided to take away the domain from your ownership. Their reason was that the newspaper was established as a Limited company since 1990s and had trademark since 2016. They have not contacted me nor asked for anything from me. My argument is the following:

1. How can a decision be made within 2-3 working days?
2. Why was I not even made aware and not asked for any input?
3. Why was the registrar not made aware?
4. I never contacted the newspaper about the domain, they contacted me and made an offer and I made a counter offer.
5. The domain is generic, two albanian words
6. The newspapers trademark is from 2016 yet the domain was registered in 2013
7. One of the statements on the decision was that the domain was offered at "auction" which is not true. The domain was parked at bodis.com with an inquiry sales form.

So my question is, how can this case be approached? Any advice at all as this is not a .com domain...?

 

[-AR-]

Some ccTLDs do just that. Albania appears to be one of them. It's much the same situation with .in domains, and the joke of a dispute policy which are applied to them as well.

The things that can go on under ICANN rules are bad enough, but the ccTLDs are free to do whatever suits them.

They have never done this before, this is the only case and the first case. I mean yes it might happen again but never before which is pretty good considering that people have been buying and trading .al domains since 2008.

 

[eurorealtor]

A few years ago I have registered CzechRepublic .ccTLD a pure geo domain, and the registrar has removed the domain from my account because of a TM.

 

[Recons.Com]

Because they apparently run their registry on an arbitrary basis, like some other squirrelly ccTLDs.



...but still no link to the actual registry agreement.

Per Wikipedia:

Albania is a democratic and developing country with an upper-middle income economy. The service sector dominates the country's economy, followed by the industrial and agriculture sector.[9] Following the collapse of communism in 1990, Albania went through a process of transition from a centralized economy to a market-based economy.[10][11][12] Albania has a high Human Development Index and is ranked 13th in the Happy Planet Index, 38th in the Global Gender Index, 52nd in the Social Progress Index and 37th for Life Expectancy.[13][14][15] It provides universal health care and free primary and secondary education to its citizens.[5] Albania is a member of the United Nations, World Bank, UNESCO, NATO, WTO, CoE, OSCE and OIC. It is also an official candidate for membership in the European Union.[16] Furthermore, Albania is one of the founding members of the Energy Community, including the Organization of the Black Sea Economic Cooperation, and Union for the Mediterranean.

I bet in some of those indexes they rank very close to the US...

No need to bash a country because of a single company/entity.

And in this case, not sure they are even wrong. Apparently, the name is not so random and has been used by a newspaper for years. No one just randomly does word+word.cctld brandables, when there are so many premium word.cctld still available there.

 

[-AR-]

Per Wikipedia:



I bet in some of those indexes they rank better than the US...

No need to bash a country because of a single company/entity.

And in this case, not sure they are even wrong. Apparently, the name is not so random and has been used by a newspaper for years. No one just randomly does word+word.cctld brandables, when there are so many premium word.cctld still available there.

Not saying they are wrong at all, but they have not followed the right process. Simply removed the domain from my account without even asking for my input. Not sure that is considered right when they have a set out procedure they have to follow themselves and they do not. Let's just hope it doesn't happen to you.

 

[Recons.Com]

Not saying they are wrong at all, but they have not followed the right process. Simply removed the domain from my account without even asking for my input. Not sure that is considered right when they have a set out procedure they have to follow themselves and they do not. Let's just hope it doesn't happen to you.

Sorry, did not mean to offend you and I do agree that they need a procedure, regardless of what they might believe is a black-and-white situation.

Regardless, AKEP is not the whole of Albania. Have you tried calling them or contacting in any other way?

 

[-AR-]

Sorry, did not mean to offend you and I do agree that they need a procedure, regardless of what they might believe is a black-and-white situation.

Regardless, AKEP is not the whole of Albania. Have you tried calling them or contacting in any other way?

I agree with you, the domain name itself as far as value is concerned is not the issue. If the correct process is followed then go ahead take it but follow the process that is set out don't just steal and abuse power.

Actually AKEP has been behaving fine until now, I do not understand what their current motive is which is why I am in the process of considering legal action otherwise I cannot see this stopping if they get away with it. This isn't really just my issue as much as it is the issue of all .al holders and registrars. I tried calling them today, I kept getting transferred to nowhere for a good 30min and loads of excuses were being used. In the end I spoke to no one and just spent a load of money on my phone bill.

 

[Kate]

If you think AKEP is behaving unfairly or outside established procedures, maybe you need to take your case one step higher - to the relevant ministry. It looks like the case has already been decided. Had they thought your input could change the outcome, they would have sought it.

 

[indam]

I agree with you, the domain name itself as far as value is concerned is not the issue. If the correct process is followed then go ahead take it but follow the process that is set out don't just steal and abuse power.

Actually AKEP has been behaving fine until now, I do not understand what their current motive is which is why I am in the process of considering legal action otherwise I cannot see this stopping if they get away with it. This isn't really just my issue as much as it is the issue of all .al holders and registrars. I tried calling them today, I kept getting transferred to nowhere for a good 30min and loads of excuses were being used. In the end I spoke to no one and just spent a load of money on my phone bill.

New director under new government. The director is coming from the Socialist Party and he might have a different view on how justice and free trade works.

If you think AKEP is behaving unfairly or outside established procedures, maybe you need to take your case one step higher - to the relevant ministry. It looks like the case has already been decided. Had they thought your input could change the outcome, they would have sought it.

The .al registry is controlled directly from the Parliament if I am not mistaken.

 

[-EM-]

I'm not sure if the director or the party where it comes from, have anything to do with the case. This is due to zero experience. Domaining is still in its first steps in Albania and so is the understanding of this kind of cases.
I remember the explication given to me by akep about a year ago, there were a lot of problems in their logic. I should have opened myself a legal case as well, instead of moving on.
The good thing is, consumers are getting more and more attracted by al in the local market.

 

[-AR-]

New director under new government. The director is coming from the Socialist Party and he might have a different view on how justice and free trade works.


The .al registry is controlled directly from the Parliament if I am not mistaken.

AKEP is a government body which is not directly controlled by the Parliament, the Parliament would have ultimate say as they do over anything but not direct control. The problem is that the domains are simply not being treated as virtual assets in the eyes of the people that are managing them (in this case AKEP). However they are being treated as toys and AKEP is taking up the role of the nursery teacher who simply take the toy away from one kid and give them to another kid without any consideration of actual ownership. If that is the case then what is the point of owning any domains at all?

 

[jberryhill]

If that is the case then what is the point of owning any domains at all?

In .al? Now, that question is a better starting point, which is more or less what I was suggesting. Believing you should have rights, having rights, and having access to due and practical mechanisms of due process for exercising them, are three entirely different things.

"Due process" doesn't mean you get to win, it only means you have a sporting opportunity to try.

Now, people flock to places like Las Vegas for the entertainment of playing games in which the house has an ironclad mathematical advantage, and that's considered "sporting" as well, so... here's another one of life's inescapable truths - not everything is fair.

The concept of "fairness" is one to which we come to aspire as toddlers. There is nothing as entertaining in parenthood as the first time your child indignantly proclaims, "That's not fair!" While on occasion, the claim may have a tenuous connection to a larger concept of justice within some factually limited scope, more often that not, it is more accurately stated as "I didn't get what I want."

So, when you put down ten dollars, drew a 10 and a 2, said "hit me" and got another 10, did you, or did you not "get what you wanted" and was it fair?

The answer depends on what it was you were expecting to accomplish. Some might say that you did not get what you wanted, because you were expecting to win. If your expectation was to "win", then you should have not sat down at the table in the first place, because it is statistically irrefutable that over the long run, you will not "win" at blackjack in Las Vegas. On the other hand, if your expectation was "I wanted to play a round of blackjack", then all seems to have gone to your complete satisfaction.

So here's something to take with you:

1. You spins the wheel, you takes your chances.

But very few people stand up duly cleansed of their stake at a blackjack table and ask, "What was the point of playing at all?", bringing us to:

2. You can't win if you don't play.

It is quite clear that there are at least some persons in Albania with a different sense of what is "fair" in these circumstances than yours. Getting back to the early childhood development phase of a sense of "fairness", imagine the further development, or more frankly maladjustment, of that sense in a person whose experience of fairness has tilted substantially more toward "getting what I want". Further still, imagine the consequences of putting just those sorts of persons in charge of the mechanisms by which "fairness" is determined, or at least putting them in a position of substantial influence over it.

That, I believe, is what you are dealing with here.

Are you seriously suggesting, as a general proposition, that nursery school teachers are poor instruments of justice?