Afternic's decision sides against Free Speech

[Lee Latner]

So I've been bad, and haven't taken the time to reach out to Afternic over more than 20 domains that I've had stuck in review. They were great as always, and contacted me back to say all of them have been posted with the exception of two of them. They were TrumpTruths.com and TalkTrump.com. I was told they did not pass Afternic's Compliance reviews and can't be listed as they infringe on Trademarks.

I politely responded asking exactly what trademarks they infringe upon. I've done the trademark searches, and absolutely the word/name "trump" has many trademarks associated with it, but none that would keep TrumpTruths.com and TalkTrump.com on the sidelines.

Afternic support quickly responded with that the matter was reviewed by their legal department, and the ruling wouldn't be reconsidered, as it was final.

I emailed back, acknowledging that I wanted some clarity. Afternic/GoDaddy's aftermarket is a huge channel when it comes to selling domains. Having that channel closed will have a huge impact on the marketability of a domain name. The reason I was confused, I found multiple domains including the word trump listed for sale on Afternic. These included but were not limited to TrumpBuilt.com, TrumpCare.org, TrumpTour.com, TrumpParty.com, and the list goes on and on. What was different with the domains TrumpTruths.com and TalkTrump.com?

The response I received stated, "Most domains that include "Trump" will not be accepted with the exception of something like "TrumpCard" a commom phrase or "abctrumpsxyz" where the Verb is clearly being used as opposed to the company name which is a noun."

In further response, Afternic support said, "The matter has nothing to do with free speech, it has nothing to do with being pro or anti anything. Trump is a trademarked company name that was proven to be protective of their mark, the same as other company names like Disney, Amazon, BMW, etc. Our legal department determines that we will simply not open our buyers, our sellers, or ourselves up to the potential for a trademark suit related to these erm and do not allow them to be listed on our platform."

In response, I sent them, "....I do understand your thoughts on the word "trump" because of a company's litigious history., but today, he is a sitting President. And so to throw out domains like TalkTrump.com and TrumpTruths.com, they are free speech issues, even if your position is that it wasn't intended to be."

Thoughts on the topic? You won't hurt my feelings

 

[draco]

A few Trump domains currently listed on Afternic:

trumpco.com
trumpcreep.com
trumpfails.com
trumpbad.com
trumpfoods.com
trumpguru.com
trumphot.com
trumpjerky.com

 

[Lee Latner]

A few Trump domains currently listed on Afternic:

trumpco.com
trumpcreep.com
trumpfails.com
trumpbad.com
trumpfoods.com
trumpguru.com
trumphot.com
trumpjerky.com

That's one of my points.

 

[Jonathan MacDermid]

Pardon the pun but free speech does not "Trump" trademark laws.

Afternic are not stopping anyone posting content on a website or speaking their mind. You could have any other non-trademark infringing domain name and post thoughts on the President, good or bad.

Using a free speech argument to try and have a couple of in my opinion "low value" domains listed on Afternic, devalues true free speech issues that are happening in the media places like the UK and Canada which are becoming more authoritarian each day.

 

[Lee Latner]

A few Trump domains currently listed on Afternic:

trumpco.com
trumpcreep.com
trumpfails.com
trumpbad.com
trumpfoods.com
trumpguru.com
trumphot.com
trumpjerky.com

Atleast at the time of my posting, they also had TrumpBuilt.com, TrumpCare.org, TrumpTour.com, and TrumpParty.com

 

[Lee Latner]

Pardon the pun but free speech does not "Trump" trademark laws.

Afternic are not stopping anyone posting content on a website or speaking their mind. You could have any other non-trademark infringing domain name and post thoughts on the President, good or bad.

Using a free speech argument to try and have a couple of in my opinion "low value" domains listed on Afternic, devalues true free speech issues that are happening in the media places like the UK and Canada which are becoming more authoritarian each day.

Posting the domains there is the non-issue that I can definitely live with, but free speech liberties are a slippery slope, that many tech giants are having to tip toe into. My questions include, "What trademark are they infringing on?", and doesn't the fact that he's a sitting President in fact nullify most arguments to the contrary when there isn't a trademark associated with Trump Truths, or Talk Trump. If you're quiet about the little changes, then you find yourself in the positions that you speak of in Canada and the UK.

 

[poweredbyme]

Their explanation is clear and easy to understand: It's a TM and they don't want TM trouble.
This is not related to free speech. In the end, afternic is a profit oriented company, isn't government or a political party. They would be happy to let you sell more domains at afternic platform. Your approach is too political. Business is business, politics is politics, they are not mixed.

 

[Lee Latner]

Their explanation is clear and easy to understand: It's a TM and they don't want TM trouble.
This is not related to free speech. In the end, afternic is a profit oriented company, isn't government or a political party. They would be happy to let you sell more domains at afternic platform. Your approach is too political. Business is business, politics is politics, they are not mixed.

I ask you then, which trademark are the domains in violation of? It’s not a political view.

 

[poweredbyme]

I ask you then, which trademark are the domains in violation of? It’s not a political view.

Trump. They clearly say Trump is a trademarked company.

"The matter has nothing to do with free speech, it has nothing to do with being pro or anti anything. Trump is a trademarked company name that was proven to be protective of their mark, the same as other company names like Disney, Amazon, BMW, etc. Our legal department determines that we will simply not open our buyers, our sellers, or ourselves up to the potential for a trademark suit related to these erm and do not allow them to be listed on our platform."

 

[Jonathan MacDermid]

The Trump trademark.

If I were to register something with the word playstation or xbox in it, is it not a trademark violation.

I actually believe that as Trump is a dictionary term, there would be an argument to be had that the domains are not a trademark issue, however Afternic is a company and as such is in business to make money. If they believe there is a higher chance that domains like this could lead to litigation, they are within their rights to make a risk assessment and act accordingly for their best interest.

As I mentioned before, no speech is being stifled here. We are talking of undeveloped domains with no content and even if it were. Afternic can refuse to list anything they want to, that is the joy of capitalism and competition. If you do not like it, list them elsewhere or start a competitor yourself.

 

[poweredbyme]

I would list them elsewhere or would create a landing page of my own.

Marketplace isn't important at all. I tested it for many times. Bad domains don't sell anywhere. I accept afternic/godaddy is the biggest one for sellers and for buyers too. I mean the biggest marketplace has not only too many buyers but also has too many sellers. Therefore big marketplaces don't offer lower competition for a particular domain compared to smaller marketplaces. Buyer/seller composition is almost evenly distributed among marketplaces.

 

[Lee Latner]

Trump. They clearly say Trump is a trademarked company.

"The matter has nothing to do with free speech, it has nothing to do with being pro or anti anything. Trump is a trademarked company name that was proven to be protective of their mark, the same as other company names like Disney, Amazon, BMW, etc. Our legal department determines that we will simply not open our buyers, our sellers, or ourselves up to the potential for a trademark suit related to these erm and do not allow them to be listed on our platform."

I get that you are saying Trump does, but that’s not an answer. His companies have many trademarks, but that doesn’t include the name in itself. A trademark has a specific number. What trademark are the domains in violation of? His companies have hundreds of them, including his name Donald Trump, but the domains don’t violate a single trademark. I’m open to being proven wrong.

 

[Jonathan MacDermid]

I get that you are saying Trump does, but that’s not an answer. His companies have many trademarks, but that doesn’t include the name in itself. A trademark has a specific number. What trademark are the domains in violation of? His companies have hundreds of them, including his name Donald Trump, but the domains don’t violate a single trademark. I’m open to being proven wrong.

He has a trademark on the single word mark "Trump" (one of over 100 live trademarks they own which also include keyword variations) and as I mentioned even though I think as "dictionary term + keyword" you may get away with these domains, Sony Truths or Talk Mitsubishi would have issues so it is reasonable to assume the same for the Trump trademark.

It comes down to as a business would you take the risk after receiving legal advice stating it is a bad idea?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

They don't seem to me to infringe the TM. I also somewhat agree with the argument that this is not a free speech issue and by using that potentially weakens the importance of free speech. I expect powers that be at Afternic have decided the simplest way to deal with this is to be very cautious. I have seen at one registrar similar caution over names that in my mind are not TM, whereas exactly the same name can be trademarked at another company. It does seem strange though that they still have similar names listed on their site for sale! (I guess with 13 million plus it is hard to miss some)

As well as the names listed at Afternic mentioned, a fair number have sold on a variety of venues. Not all off these are Trump in the sense here, but some are, just in case anyone wants the list

https://namebio.com/?s==AzM1MDO3gTM

Does anyone know from experience if this is specifically Trump related, or for example if I tried AppleTruths would the answer be the same? Not that I own that of course!

 

[poweredbyme]

Does anyone know from experience if this is specifically Trump related, or for example if I tried AppleTruths would the answer be the same? Not that I own that of course!

IMHO, as a logical conclusion, I think the same should apply to all trademarks. Because those domains (xxTruths, Talkxx, xxForums ) will likely to be developed as a platform for discussing about something that is protected by trademark. If you take the issue from this perspective (prohibiting expression of opinions), OP is correct on his opposition to limiting free speech. Can a trademark prohibit expressing opinions? I don't know. On the other hand, if trademark is for protection, its protection role might be extended to include discussions, I don't know. I remember some websites that publish customer complains about various trademarked products of different companies. But they are on generic domain names as far as I remember as they don't publish content about only a particular brand.

 

[J Sokol]

I mean the biggest marketplace has not only too many buyers but also has too many sellers. Therefore big marketplaces don't offer lower competition for a particular domain compared to smaller marketplaces. Buyer/seller composition is almost evenly distributed among marketplaces.

I have seen at one registrar similar caution over names that in my mind are not TM, whereas exactly the same name can be trademarked at another company. It does seem strange though that they still have similar names listed on their site for sale! (I guess with 13 million plus it is hard to miss some)

Good points @poweredbyme and @MetBob. Interesting discussion.