discuss What gTLD failed you? For example, you stocked up for nothing.

[INFJ]

What gTLD failed you? For example, you stocked up for nothing.

I'll start. I jumped on the .vip bandwagon when it first dropped. I remember picking up "lounge.vip" which was appraised for several thousand by several members. Of course, stupid me, I hung onto it....'til the end.....the very end....as in $5 end. FML.

Your turn!

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I think many good points have been raised on both sides. With respect to the issue of .top,

Bob's post is not perfect as it does not consider average price and is not aware of the issue of stopping reporting of .top sales in Chinese venues since Aug 2019. When you use his imperfect post to support your view, your argument is not perfect and unfounded. Simple logic. I know Bob read our discussion and should know the issues now.

I just wanted to point out that the original article has always had this full paragraph about the .top reporting:

Compared to the last few years, it is surprising .top is not on the list, although eleventh place is a .top extension sale. The last .top sale listed on NameBio was in early August. I am not sure if this is a change in reporting policy, or if sales in the extension have truly waned. Since .top accounted for so many of the high-value new gTLD sales over the last few years, much of the drop in new-extension sales activity is due to the drop in .top sales.

There is no doubt that this is a major reason for the overall volume drop so far in 2019 for new gTLDs. So while my post was imperfect in many ways, probably mainly that it was too long so people do not read to the end , it did indeed mention .top as a big reason for the drop so far in 2019.

Here is the link to the full post. I tried to balance encouraging news about recent 5 and 4 figure new gTLDs and new major uses being made of new extensions, with the statistics that seems to show that the probability of a sale is currently lower in new gTLDs than it is in legacy. That of course does not mean it will always stay that way. It is also true, as @henrypcyeung notes, that average prices in new extensions are higher, even when registry sales are excluded, and that partially, but not fully, makes up for lower probability of sale.

I would like to stress the following that summarizes me personal view.

I personally have never seen domains as a competition between .com/.net/.org and other extensions, but rather each have their own roles, and can complement each other.

While the .com vs new argument in last few pages of the thread have been well argued with good points, I think the thread is quite probably moving away from the intention of the OP, perhaps.

Bob

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

Probability of sale mainly depends on how many domains are available.
If certain domain can be easily replaced - your chances are ~0.

 

[Henry Y]

I think many good points have been raised on both sides. With respect to the issue of .top,


I just wanted to point out that the original article has always had this full paragraph about the .top reporting:


There is no doubt that this is a major reason for the overall volume drop so far in 2019 for new gTLDs. So while my post was imperfect in many ways, probably mainly that it was too long so people do not read to the end , it did indeed mention .top as a big reason for the drop so far in 2019.

Here is the link to the full post. I tried to balance encouraging news about recent 5 and 4 figure new gTLDs and new major uses being made of new extensions, with the statistics that seems to show that the probability of a sale is currently lower in new gTLDs than it is in legacy. That of course does not mean it will always stay that way. It is also true, as @henrypcyeung notes, that average prices in new extensions are higher, even when registry sales are excluded, and that partially, but not fully, makes up for lower probability of sale.

I would like to stress the following that summarizes me personal view.


While the .com vs new argument in last few pages of the thread have been well argued with good points, I think the thread is quite probably moving away from the intention of the OP, perhaps.

Bob

I apologize that I overlooked your paragraph in your blog regarding no .top sales in Chinese venues since Aug 2019.

Your blogs provide lots of valuable info to all members in this forum. Thank you, Bob!

 

[Brands.International]

Only if they're really good names... which the registries mostly hold.

No, registries do not hold most of good domain names .. private domain investors hold many fantastic domain names with low renewals as well - you can see them in portfolios of many members in this forum, and many of them will report even larger sales as time wil pass

 

[Brands.International]

I agree, but that is largely not relevant to my comments.

When a registry is reporting sales that show up in NameBio.com, that pool of money does not go to domain investors. That is my point.

I am not really interested in any extension where I am competing against the registry itself, that has virtually no holding costs.

If there was some massive groundswell in new extensions it would be showing up in the reported sales, which it isn't. Under (3) reported sales per day on average for the last year.

Brad

In new gTLDs, we are NOT competing against registries (in case we are smart enough and invest in names with no large number of alternatives in new gTLD space, that is a primary condition, of course).

To explain that further: if registry sells something like vacation / rentals for huge amount of money, this is indeed a great news for my domain name realty / rentals - why? Because I will have some comparable sale (and high sale in USD amount) for that extension, while my keyword can be seen as similarly strong from some end user's point of view. Of course, registry owns some similar names like home / rentals for example (which is great competitor), but really, what is the difference from the situation when some other domain investor would own home / rentals? For me, there is no difference. And frankly, I have this competition because I invested in new gTLD which indeed has some (few) alternatives in new gTLD space.

Another example: let's say that registry will sell domain name my / life for really big bucks (sooner or later this is just designed to happen, imo) - but is that the competition to my .life domain names, like immortal / life, or is it an advantage for me? As think, how can registry compete with something which simply does not have alternatives in new gTLD space (is unique combo with specific semantic meaning)? For me, every large sale in particular extension by registry is a fantastic news, if I hold larger amount of names in this extension, and those names are unique.

Once again, if we invest in new gTLDs which are not unique combos (have lot of alternatives in new gTLD space), then we will feel the competition ..but that can be avoided by smart initial choice of names (which is of course easier said, then done)

 

[bmugford]

In new gTLDs, we are NOT competing against registries (in case we are smart enough and invest in names with no large number of alternatives in new gTLD space, that is a primary condition, of course).

To explain that further: if registry sells something like vacation / rentals for huge amount of money, this is indeed a great news for my domain name realty / rentals - why? Because I will have some comparable sale (and high sale in USD amount) for that extension, while my keyword can be seen as similarly strong from some end user's point of view. Of course, registry owns some similar names like home / rentals for example (which is great competitor), but really, what is the difference from the situation when some other domain investor would own home / rentals? For me, there is no difference. And frankly, I have this competition because I invested in new gTLD which indeed has some (few) alternatives in new gTLD space.

Another example: let's say that registry will sell domain name my / life for really big bucks (sooner or later this is just designed to happen, imo) - but is that the competition to my .life domain names, like immortal / life, or is it an advantage for me? As think, how can registry compete with something which simply does not have alternatives in new gTLD space (is unique combo with specific semantic meaning)? For me, every large sale in particular extension by registry is a fantastic news, if I hold larger amount of names in this extension, and those names are unique.

Once again, if we invest in new gTLDs which are not unique combos (have lot of alternatives in new gTLD space), then we will feel the competition ..but that can be avoided by smart initial choice of names (which is of course easier said, then done)

You are basically arguing a rising tide lift all boats; registry sales are good for the extension and new extensions in general. I get that.

However, you are most certainly competing against registries. They have access to the best keywords and far lower holding costs. They can also set up any premium registration and/or renewal schemes they want.

Brad

 

[Brands.International]

You are basically arguing a rising tide lift all boats; registry sales are good for the extension and new extensions in general. I get that.

However, you are most certainly competing against registries. They have access to the best keywords and far lower holding costs. They can also set up any premium registration and/or renewal schemes they want.

Brad

And if you invest in .com or in .us, you are competing against another domain investors, I do not see much difference

Sure, registries can setup any premium registration or renewal schemes they want on their names, but why should we be bothered with that? They can do what they want, it does not concern me. For example me, I have most of my names with very low renewal fees (which are actually lower then .com for most of my names), and best of my names are now extended many years ahead as well - so why I should see registries as competitors? I wish them only the best! To me, their sales are exactly what you described "rising tide lift all boats"

 

[JayT]

@Josh R
You told me, when you posted my DM calling me an idiot that you "would keep spreading the truth" while laughing at my face with your friends and reporting me like a * Well, is that "TRUTH" you were on about:
99.99% of 6 and 7 figure sales? That’s the extension that failed you guys?
Hi Bob - I love the stats but the fact of the matter is that there are 6 figure .com sales that are unreported EVERY single day.
That's all I seen you write...
Please, prove you AREN'T an idiot, and about that "spreading the truth", just confirm these statistics you insist on, thank you!

(just looking out for the noobs, don't want anyone getting 'fooled' here)

 

[.X.]

.us for me, it didn’t really fail me, I was more disappointed when all the country codes failed to prosper as a whole.

 

[HotKey]

@HotKey - Thanks! I'm sure a lot of members will really appreciate this. Great to get a bit of a look into some of the real numbers of a ngTLD portfolio.

Would it be okay to request more detail? What I'm mainly curious about (and probably many members) is if it's currently financially viable to maintain a portfolio of ngTLD names.

No problema! I appreciate your approach to fact-gathering.

Here's ballpark on my branch new G of domains only (last 4 years total, to date):
expenses: 12k
seeing black: 8k

That's it re. specifics, the rest I will leave for your imagination, as I am not overly enthusiastic on solely crunching numbers for decision making. Every name should be judged on its own merits, unless working with purchasing massive quantities at a time.

**

If I may, visit your question "Is it currently financially viable". This is what works for me:

I have spent over 4 years building a base (domains, site and individual landers) to work from. But firm believer in the most basic approach:

* returns will be determined by the work put into sales methods and the choices made with the names picked *

Domain sheets are split into 5 categories:

- .one --> bulk of my new G sales
- biggies veggie.pizzas
- legacy investments, ccTLDs and emojis
- vanity and personal use domains
- names that are in flux

My new Gtlds make up about 60% of my domains. In and of itself, it has been profitable thus viable to maintain. But NOT lucrative. That may come in the future. I get more satisfaction from my collection that is more than the money. I look beyond the profits, and like what I see. I definitely do not think this model will work for the majority of investors, particularly those requiring steady and quick returns as a main source of income.

I have never recommended getting into new Gtld investing without knowing the risks. I and others have outlined them countless times throughout many threads. The odds are against you, and the traction isn't there as it is with the legacy and ccTLDs. It is most definitely a work in progress, with an uncertain outcome. The registries have set up the system as an end user market. But they are starting to feel the pain. Releasing premiums at discounted prices. Bundling services with regs. etc.

Learning a lot along the way, and many mistakes. Sure more mistakes to come, and still more to learn. Main thing is, I enjoy what I do and I hope it reflects.

**

Some guiding points to consider, if looking at buying a new Gtld:

My focus has always been, and will continue to be, on names that make sense to me, but more importantly, can they make sense to someone else.
- How many uses are there for the name. Is there more than one way to look at it. Can it target more than one user, as a fallback.
- Can the right be used independently of the left, or does it rely solely on its extension for usage viability. We hammer the importance of creating proper combinations, but this should not shut out creative solutions.
- How does it look on a web banner? Building? Bus? Business card? Url bar? How does it look with email? [email protected]
- Always radio test.
- 7 characters total could also translate into a possible toll-free 800 number for the customer, if a match is available.

More to consider:

- What of extension lifespan, is there a question to its survival?
- Renewals. That great sale price will no longer be in a year. Is the name a keeper? There is a good likelihood it will not sell in the near future.
- Be prepared to rethink the rules. An LLL or a short category killer keyword prefix might mean absolutely nothing! This is not .com.

**

Looking forward, am going to experiment with a more active selling approach: outbound, and multiple venues listings.

Joe, this took me 2 days to write, don't ask me for any more specifics.

- Hots

 

[Henry Y]

Instead of focusing on the worst I will focus on the best. For me it's been .app.....

Just noticed today that there was a big .app sale (zb/app, $91,000) on 2019-09-10 according to Namebio. It seems that this sale record was added to Namebio today.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I think that while perhaps no TLD has failed me, I have failed a number of them!

Being serious though, I think it is possible that which TLD and you will have a 'failure' relationship depends both on the market and on yourself. While some TLDs are obviously better investments, and the quality of the exact domain name is the most critical point in all cases, it may also be true that you as a domainer are a better match with some domains.

Therefore we should not only use the success of other domainers with a TLD in our assessment (I am not saying that information is not important, just that it is not the only factor). I think you are more likely to be successful selling domain names that you are excited about. Names that, if you had resources to develop, that you would enthusiastically develop yourself, or that you are proud to talk about to others.

Just my Friday morning thought.

Bob

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

If you can't - you can fail in any TLD.

 

[BaileyUK]

While we are focused on what TLDs failed us, Perhaps we should also be equally concentrating on what WORDS or TERMS failed us. And I am particularly focusing this comment on many of the Ntld registrants and holders. Recent threads, usually started by Ntld holders and most likely only responded to by fellow Ntld holders ( may I add - Making The inclusion of a *Survey as part of these threads, somewhat laughable)

* 99.9% of respondents believe Ntlds are the future ( So no surprises there then

As I scan through the replies, I'm quite taken aback by the number of replies that seem to high-light 'Personal favorites' etc etc with replies like 'I wouldn't let this go for less than $50,000' While the terms may be 'Recognizable' even Catchy they have absolutely NO business proposition or association by even the remotest possibility. I won't go into examples here because that would be unfair. But, they are not hard to find on the Ntlds owners own sales posts/platforms.

Where the Registries seem to have got their holdings right is in holding back most of the Commercial viable terms for premium registration. The dreamers seem to have gone overboard on pure 'Term Recognition' Maybe they are just of that ilk with the 1,000 of extensions being available. they can't help but keep stumbling upon those 'Hard to Resist' but total commercial crap domains

Sure the .com holder may be advertising for $100,000 plus offers , or even you may find quite a few put to good use as WordWord .com but to try and translate late into a good registration in the (Find the hidden DOT) domain - words fail me

 

[Most Bay]

I stock for .Best.
I dont say the worst, cause still waiting for the chance.
However, I begin to feel affraid for the 'worst'...
Hope it wont happen.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Perhaps we should also be equally concentrating on what WORDS or TERMS failed us.

it is an excellent point, @BaileyUK.

I have been heavy in nanotechnology, nanosciece, nanoscale, etc. which has not yet paid off for me personally. I still think it is a good area for domain investment, with the early stages of Internet of Nanoscale Things bringing things like smart medical devices on nanoscale to make treatments more effective. I am still holding in area, but am a little disappointed so far.

Bob

 

[illumy]

Just noticed today that there was a big .app sale (zb/app, $91,000) on 2019-09-10 according to Namebio. It seems that this sale record was added to Namebio today.

I made the submission, and this is only one of many bigger sales (5-6 figures) that I knew of that actually happened in recent months.

 

[Winfluence]

ALL new gTLDs screwed donainers because there could have been more adaption but they were not properly promoted by their registries, so domain investors got shafted pretty hard...

 

[lock]

If you owned yellow dot lamborghini and Lamborghini dropped the extension you could qualify for this thread. Bailing out early or just dropping after 12 months a gTLD because you didn't sell it is mad if you own the best name for extension. If it was 1988 and you didn't sell your domain could you now? You could personally close vip over your little faith in your type in with negative hype.

 

[jmcc]

And if you invest in .com or in .us, you are competing against another domain investors, I do not see much difference

The difference is that the other domain investors have acquired their domain names organically whereas the registries in the new gTLDs have effectively used their position to withhold the "good" domain names from the market. That makes it very much a rigged market rather than the free market that exists with COM. From what I can see with the legacy gTLDs, there are some very worrying indications of consolidation happening and the web usage rates in most of the new gTLDs are not as strong as those of the legacy gTLDs or the ccTLDs. Usage drives development and registrations. Without it, a TLD will begin to stagnate. While some of the new gTLDs have signs of usage, the problem of discounting is seriously affecting some of the top NGTs to such an extent that boom and bust cycles are now a feature of them. I took a look at some of them from December 2016 and checked the deletions compared to December 2017 and December 2018. Some of them were over 80% deleted by December 2017 and over 95% deleted by December 2018. That kind of zone file replacement is only possible with extreme discounting and extreme discounting kills development.

Regards...jmcc

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

What nTLDs deleted exactly?
.TOP/.XYZ?
No surprise here, and they are not a benchmark.

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

The same will be with .icu next year... 80%+ drop rate...

 

[jmcc]

What nTLDs deleted exactly?
.TOP/.XYZ?
No surprise here, and they are not a benchmark.

A crude zonefile comparison of December 2016 zones with the December 2018 zone files:

NGT - 2018
XYZ 94.72%
TOP 95%
WIN 83.04%
WANG 90.17%
CLUB 76.22%
BID 95.87%
LOAN 97.67%
SITE 90.58%
ONLINE 61.64%
VIP 54.43%
LINK 90.33%
REN 72.38%
RED 95.22%
GDN 97.54%
TECH 80.33%
SCIENCE 95.95%
WEBSITE 74.4%
SPACE 74.99%
KIWI 92.67%
TRADE 91.98%

Those were just the top NGTs in December 2016.

Regards...jmcc

 

[jmcc]

The same will be with .icu next year... 80%+ drop rate...

And BUZZ. It has been stuffing the zone with discounted registrations lately.

Regards...jmcc

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

7 of 13 I sold - .life domains.
And as I see - .life renewal rate is not so bad, it is absent in your list.