debate Will .xyz flourish in 2019?

[Laguna]

What are your thoughts on .xyz in the coming year or two ?

 

[mr-x]

If you have to ask..

 

[DNGear]

Normal 10 usd renewal. @Bob Hawkes

 

[eurorealtor]

Because they are cheap and low risk. Some start-up businesses cannot afford the domain they want so go for the cheapest option until they can afford the .com version

1. They are cheap till the first renewal, than become as any other extension.
2. If start up business can't afford domain they want, why they would buy .xyz from you? In that case, they can register any poor domain for $10 in .com or for $0,99 .xyz

 

[Laguna]

I'm not saying they (xyz) will be huge, I'm saying some end users do buy them now and then. Getting the RIGHT .xyz can be very lucrative given the initial reg fee.
Anyway, great debate guys

 

[Laguna]

1. They are cheap till the first renewal, than become as any other extension.
2. If start up business can't afford domain they want, why they would buy .xyz from you? In that case, they can register any poor domain for $10 in .com or for $0,99 .xyz

Not if the domain name they want is already gone they can't. And to say they can register any poor name is a stupid thing to say.you need the name that reflects your business. Not just any old name

 

[Laguna]

This was put on completed domain sales about 5 minutes ago

Barista////xyz
950 usd
GD
regfee

Obvious////xyz
1495 usd
GD
regfee

Kinetics////xyz
1995 usd
GD
regfee

Monolith////xyz
1995 usd
Undeveloped
regfee

Dots////xyz
1250 usd
Undeveloped
regfee

Arman////xyz
750 usd
Undeveloped
regfee + renewal

WeCan////xyz
1995 usd
GD
regfee

Substance///xyz
1995 usd
Afternic
regfee

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Great sales, right?

Let's take the first one, would you be willing to keep renewing it for few years until & if it sells?

Assuming the renewal is x,xxx?

Knowing that x,xxx & xx,xxx will cover your .com renewals, a portfolio of hundreds.

Thank you for using a sale to demonstrate the argument. Here is my take on the questions you ask, now that the former owner, as well as an independent check, has confirmed that the renewal on the name is standard, at about $10 per year.

To respond to your points:

1. "would you be willing to keep renewing it for few years until & if it sells?" Would I renew token (xyz) for a few years? At $10/yr for sure. Good investment.
2. "Assuming the renewal is x,xxx?" It is not. The name token (xyz) is a standard renewal. Those who invest in ngTLDs always check whether premium renewal and only in rare cases invest in those with high renewals.
3. "Knowing that x,xxx & xx,xxx will cover your .com renewals, a portfolio of hundreds" And it also would cover renewal for a portfolio of hundreds of .xyz, if you chose to renew them. I think legacy investors do not understand though that many ngTLD investors take advantage of reduced first year costs to see if a domain name generates interest, and only a small portion will be renewed. But if you did want to use register and hold (obviously sensible for this domain) the costs are almost identical to .com. The wholesale renewal cost on .com is currently $7.85 and for .xyz it is $8.00.

But are there any other messages from this one sale since a critic of .xyz domain investment chose it as the example of why any .xyz investment makes no sense. I have no idea whether @DNGear hand registered (it appears from Whois to have been registered in October of 2016) or bought it from someone else, but I do know he paid only standard renewals. He successfully had a 4 figure (barely) aftermarket sale. It was bought by one of the smart domain investment leaders, and with a hold time of about a year (according to his tweets re the sale) he sold it for a 5 figure price. It was purchased by a VP of one of the world's largest companies, Alibaba. So the name was held by three domain smart people, sold at least twice in aftermarket (not registry sales) over less than two years, for increasing prices, and is held now by a business leader in a huge company.

I seem to miss why this would be a bad domain investment? Seriously congratulations to the three owners of the domain name who saw the value in it and that at standard renewal it was a great investment. I think this case nicely demonstrates how to be successful in ngTLDs. Buy quality. Find standard renewal names that are still strong words. Try to be ahead of others in a niche. Effectively list and negotiate sales. Be objective and smart and quantitative in thinking. Congrats to all.

Bob

 

[atinc]

I have been in to the new gTLDs since day 1. And never registered a .xyz domain because the extension doesn't mean anything. You can't do meaningful combos with .xyz

It is all hype from start to the end. Espacially the registry sold them for 99 cents to grow their reg. numbers compared to other tlds.(hype)

They say it is good in Chinese market, well sorry but Chinese like to create hype - and pump than dump. They did that with some dot com niches and now this...

Token.xyz sold this year for 14999

I highly doubt that it is a valid sale. Go to the website, owner is a domainer.

And he says "We have NOT money, BUT domains cooperate or sell (BTC accept)" on the home page.

First of all I don't think any domainer would pay that money for resale if they are not insane.

Espacially when the owner states "We have NOT money"..

@Lagunaboy where do you get this sale info?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I highly doubt that it is a valid sale. Go to the website, owner is a domainer.

And he says "We have NOT money, BUT domains cooperate or sell (BTC accept)" on the home page.

First of all I don't think any domainer would pay that money for resale if they are not sane.

Espacially when the owner states "We have NOT money"..

@Lagunaboy where do you get this sale info?

Really you doubt this sale? It was announced by Andrew Rosener CEO of Media Options (as well as other activity in the domain community incl. sherpas) on his twitter feed, the buyer is a VP at Alibaba. The sale was conducted through Sedo, was announced on DNJournal and is in the NameBio database, both of which require verification. We know all of the previous owner (@DNGear), the intermediate owner (Andrew Rosener) and the final buyer. The site is in use (although underused so far). What more verification could you possibly want if you have doubts whether this sale is legitimate? Yes, the translation is rough on the site in places, but that is not a reason to doubt the sale.

I am beyond perplexed by your lack of trust the sale is legitimate. When we doubt sales by one of the biggest names in domaining, via the (perhaps) biggest aftermarket platform (Sedo), and listed on our two most trusted sources of sales information (DNJournal, NameBio), what have we come to as a community?

Bob

ps Furthermore the price is not out of belief for a name of this quality. Token has sold 7 times as exact match, this is second, behind a sale in .tv and ahead of one in .sale ngTLD.

 

[atinc]

Really you doubt this sale? It was announced by Andrew Rosener CEO of Media Options (as well as other activity in the domain community incl. sherpas) on his twitter feed, the buyer is a VP at Alibaba. The sale was conducted through Sedo, was announced on DNJournal and is in the NameBio database, both of which require verification. We know all of the previous owner (@DNGear), the intermediate owner (Andrew Rosener) and the final buyer. The site is in use (although underused so far). What more verification could you possibly want if you have doubts whether this sale is legitimate? Yes, the translation is rough on the site in places, but that is not a reason to doubt the sale.

I am beyond perplexed by your lack of trust the sale is legitimate. When we doubt sales by one of the biggest names in domaining, via the (perhaps) biggest aftermarket platform (Sedo), and listed on our two most trusted sources of sales information (DNJournal, NameBio), what have we come to as a community?

Bob

Could you please take a look at the website?

I don't really know the sales report for this. When did it took place?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Could you please take a look at the website?

I don't really know the sales report for this. When did it took place?

Trust me I had checked out if it was in use way before your post. The sale is listed on NameBio on Aug 16, 2018. I think the announcement on Andrew's twitter feed was a few days before that. In my earlier response I took the effort to link the NameBio and DNJournal announcements - you just need to click to see the results. Also there was a complete thread just on this one sale at NPs. I am sure a search will readily find it.

ps here is the link to the NP thread on the sale.

 

[Laguna]

I have been in to the new gTLDs since day 1. And never registered a .xyz domain because the extension doesn't mean anything. You can't do meaningful combos with .xyz

It is all hype from start to the end. Espacially the registry sold them for 99 cents to grow their reg. numbers compared to other tlds.(hype)

They say it is good in Chinese market, well sorry but Chinese like to create hype - and pump than dump. They did that with some dot com niches and now this...



I highly doubt that it is a valid sale. Go to the website, owner is a domainer.

And he says "We have NOT money, BUT domains cooperate or sell (BTC accept)" on the home page.

First of all I don't think any domainer would pay that money for resale if they are not insane.

Espacially when the owner states "We have NOT money"..

@Lagunaboy where do you get this sale info?

Namebio

 

[atinc]

This is the homepage, says

• JOINED
  July 6, 2014

and the sale took place on 2018 ?

Nothing to doubt on this?

 

[imadoer]

i vote No!

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I agree that the use appears to be simply to attract traffic to try to sell domain names. For price, that may be worthwhile. One should keep in mind this is just a few months after sale, and ultimate use may be down the road. While use is one piece of evidence, I also place a lot of trust in where it sold, whether it passed NameBio and DNJournal acceptance.

If we look at the 20 highest sales of all time (at least on NameBio data) (all .com and all at prices of $3.6 million and up each) only 12 of them have developed content (other than a redirection or coming soon, even though sold years ago) and only about half even have a security certificate implemented. Delay in meaningful final use does not mean a sale is fake.
https://agreatnameforyou.blogspot.com/2018/09/so-how-are-highest-priced-domain-names.html

I totally accept that scepticism is good, @atinc. But when we see a sale by someone we know, through Sedo, confirmed by DNJournal, and accepted as valid in NameBio, I think we should accept the preponderance of evidence.

Some may feel no harm is done by suggesting that well substantiated sales are probably not real but I disagree. I think it hurts our community by sowing lack of trust. This both blinds us to cases where mistrust is justified, and it makes our whole community less trusted by those outside. Someone can now search on the domain name and quote your comment about it. I don't think that helps anyone, in this case.

I admire your posts generally, but in this case I do not agree with what you have written. At the very least when any of us feel scepticism I think we should FIRST check DNJournal, NameBio and NPs to learn about the issue, and then if still lacking trust and only then post. jmho.

Bob

 

[Internet.Domains]

Many of us watching the roll out of the New Gtld program know there was many suspicious sales in the beginning with this extension. At the same time there was an over abundance of hype coming from the registry. For that reason there will be little trust, from many of us, when sales happen.

Sure legitimate sales will happen, mostly due to the previous fictitious hype, but every sale is now questioned by many.

https://onlinedomain.com/2016/04/05/opinions/xyz-domains-name-sales-real/

 

[Laguna]

I know I'm new to domaining but am I missing something ? Why does it matter what the buyer does or doesn't do with the domain. Surely as the seller, you just want to be paid for the sale.right ?

 

[BRANDERX]

@Bob Hawkes I appreciate that you & other domainers are going after any extension you would be able to sell for a profit.

You are missing the point, the point is, when the word is truly premium, & the combo makes sense, you will be paying premium renewal.

Take Diet.xyz, nice domain, kinda makes sense. You can renew it at $650 yr, or you can renew 70 solid .coms.

I just told you store.xyz renews at 13k.

Vehicle.xyz renews at $1,300

Doctor.xyz renews at $,3,250 etc ..........

I'll definitely go for the .coms.

Again, in most cases the extension is not domaining/domainer friendly.

Sure, you'll find a few at standard regfee, good luck building your domaining career on that strategy.

just my opinion anyway.

 

[Internet.Domains]

I know I'm new to domaining but am I missing something ? Why does it matter what the buyer does or doesn't do with the domain. Surely as the seller, you just want to be paid for the sale.right ?

Why does it matter what the buyer does? With this extension there has been very little end user use when a sale occurs. There is very little known about the buyers and their use for it. Wouldn't it be nice to ask some of these buyers why the chose .xyz?... But you can't because finding the buyer generally ends in a dead end.

 

[atinc]

I agree that the use appears to be simply to attract traffic to try to sell domain names. For price, that may be worthwhile. One should keep in mind this is just a few months after sale, and ultimate use may be down the road. While use is one piece of evidence, I also place a lot of trust in where it sold, whether it passed NameBio and DNJournal acceptance.

If we look at the 20 highest sales of all time (at least on NameBio data) (all .com and all at prices of $3.6 million and up each) only 12 of them have developed content (other than a redirection or coming soon, even though sold years ago) and only about half even have a security certificate implemented. Delay in meaningful final use does not mean a sale is fake.
https://agreatnameforyou.blogspot.com/2018/09/so-how-are-highest-priced-domain-names.html

I totally accept that scepticism is good, @atinc. But when we see a sale by someone we know, through Sedo, confirmed by DNJournal, and accepted as valid in NameBio, I think we should accept the preponderance of evidence.

Some may feel no harm is done by suggesting that well substantiated sales are probably not real but I disagree. I think it hurts our community by sowing lack of trust. This both blinds us to cases where mistrust is justified, and it makes our whole community less trusted by those outside. Someone can now search on the domain name and quote your comment about it. I don't think that helps anyone, in this case.

I admire your posts generally, but in this case I do not agree with what you have written. At the very least when any of us feel scepticism I think we should FIRST check DNJournal, NameBio and NPs to learn about the issue, and then if still lacking trust and only then post. jmho.

Bob

Okay so I go a little bit deeper on this. Actually there is not even a website on this domain.

The domain name is forwarded with masking. When I went and explore the site I saw that it is a forum website and when I go from one page to another I realised that the url didn't change. It shows that its forwarded with masking.

The domain name is forwarded to bitcoifoundation.org, the home page is the owner's account on the forum.

My conclusion is the keyword is great and could be sold at that price to an "end user" and when I go to the website and see how it looked like as I attached above, I had doubt the sale was legit.

So there are people with deep pockets, if they really want to own a domain, whatever purpose behind it (develop,resale,park etc.) they would pay a good sum of money for that.

The owner is a domainer, as he stated on the homepage, so probably it won't be developed by him. He might bought it for resale...

 

[Laguna]

Why does it matter what the buyer does? With this extension there has been very little end user use when a sale occurs. There is very little known about the buyers and their use for it. Wouldn't it be nice to ask some of these buyers why the chose .xyz?... But you can't because finding the buyer generally ends in a dead end.

I still don't get it. If someone offers you 5k for your domain, do you ask what they intend to do with it ? Of course not. You get the money in the bank and happy days

 

[Internet.Domains]

I still don't get it. If someone offers you 5k for your domain, do you ask what they intend to do with it ? Of course not. You get the money in the bank and happy days

Of course you sell it. I am not implying you don't.......The thought behind much of the skepticism is that the registry is buying domains in the aftermarket, often from reputable sellers, with phantom buyer information. Parked pages, mystery buyers, registry hype, this has been documented.

I am not accusing them of this, I am only reporting what has been brought up in the past. There has been much discussed on this topic. I posted a link in the post above, if you'd like to start there and draw your own conclusions, as many have.

 

[atinc]

I still don't get it. If someone offers you 5k for your domain, do you ask what they intend to do with it ? Of course not. You get the money in the bank and happy days

It is better to know who you are dealing with at first. I would ask what are their intention with the domain name.

5K offer is fine but if your willing price is higher, and the entity who approached you has a deep pocket, you can fetch more money by counter offering. Or the opposite, the end-user wouldn't be able to pay more than 5K and than you might consider to accept it if it appeals to you.

Of course you sell it. I am not implying you don't.......The thought behind much of the skepticism is that the registry is buying domains in the aftermarket, often from reputable sellers, with phantom buyer information. Parked pages, mystery buyers, registry hype, this has been documented.

I am not accusing them of this, I am only reporting what has been brought up in the past. There has been much discussed on this topic. I posted a link in the post above, if you'd like to start there and draw your own conclusions, as many have.

I think a little bit of skepticism is good for everyone, makes you question things, research them and make conclusions. Besides it helps you to avoid scams out there in the wild.

and as you stated above, there have been shady businesses happened in the past and perhaps still happening today - who knows - but a little bit of skepticism would help you stay away from those shady people who are doing those.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I largely agree @Lagunaboy that a sale is a sale. When I buy most consumer products the seller could care less what I do with it (exceptions like vehicles). However, I think ultimately the health of an extension does depend on legitimate respected end use, so I think it matters, somewhat. As a seller, I like when I see a domain name actually goes into meaningful use. Maybe that is just me.

By the way, I agree @atinc that quite probably the buyer plans/hopes to resell token at the right price rather than develop it, and that the site itself is confusing and probably misleading (as well as sloppy translation). At $10 per year renewal he can sit and wait for the right offer. There seems some confusion between the announced buyer and the linkedin profile of the person at masked redirect.

@MS-Domains thank you for your reflections. I agree that it is challenging finding investment worthy ngTLDs at standard renewal fees. I am super impressed with the skills @DNGear has had in finding such names in .xyz that sell at high $$$ and low to mid $$$$ prices. Hats off to him (with a bit of envy ). I think he, @lolwarrior , @Fancy.domains and a handful of others have shown that a savvy domain investor can make money in ngTLDs, but I think none of them would say it is easy or without risk.

At the same time, to me it seems challenging to find .com domains that are good enough for the sales risk at reasonable prices too - I take it for those who have been longer in this than me it was not as difficult a decade ago (and parking was way more lucrative then too). So I see risk and hard work whether you choose ngTLDs or legacy (and as I have said multiple times, the numbers favour legacy and a few cc's as investing strategy).

I think it is totally fine and in fact good that different domain investors do different things. I am certainly not trying to convert legacy investors into ngTLD investors (or vice versa). I just try to take as balanced and evidence based view to questions as possible.

So I guess I am saying I find something to agree with almost everyone. Of course I am Canadian...

Have a nice day.

Bob

 

[atinc]

@Bob Hawkes
You are missing the point, the point is, when the word is truly premium, & the combo makes sense, you will be paying premium renewal.

Take Diet.xyz, nice domain, kinda makes sense. You can renew it at $650 yr, or you can renew 70 solid .coms.

I just told you store.xyz renews at 13k.

Vehicle.xyz renews at $1,300

Doctor.xyz renews at $,3,250 etc ..........

I'll definitely go for the .coms.

Again, in most cases the extension is not domaining/domainer friendly.

Sure, you'll find a few at standard regfee, good luck building your domaining career on that strategy.

just my opinion anyway.

apparently this is only for .xyz and not goes for all the new gTLD extensions.

There are many truly premium keywords that makes sense with the combination and doesn't have "real" premium renewal.

A fellow friend posted a great thread where people share their domain names and their renewals. You can take a look at that here.

But I think we should define what is premium renewal first. I guess that depends from people to people.