Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

[webquest]

Once in awhile I see people bidding on their own domains at NJ. I would think it would be frowned upon.

Today's seems more obvious than normal. Or am I missing something here?

Airlinejobs.com owned by Andy Booth at Booth.com and high bidder is BQDNcom (James Booth).

3 bids down we see Boothcom as a bidder.

Same thing with MovieZone.com. Owned by Andy Booth in which he currently appears to be the high bidder.

High Bid: $2,475 USD by boothcom

They actually won their own domain airplanesforsale.com. Im guessing it didnt get as high as they wanted so needed to protect it.

Bidder Amount Date
bqdncom $2,001 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
boothcom $1,950 7/17/2017 12:23 PM

 

[Arca]

Why was "seek"/Oliver Hodger not banned for shill bidding? Have NameJet made any comments about this? I see him bidding on auctions every day at NameJet. Have NameJet done anything at all about the users who engaged in shill bidding?

 

[wwwweb]

Why was "seek"/Oliver Hodger not banned for shill bidding? Have NameJet made any comments about this? I see him bidding on auctions every day at NameJet. Have NameJet done anything at all about the users who engaged in shill bidding?

I don't think so, they just changed some of their TOS, reinstated they are an exchange, and a auction house, and said we monitor all auctions for fraud, and went on with the status quo of business.

I guess they gave him a second chance, considering he has made them lots of commissions, and probably continues to do so.

 

[creataweb]

Why was "seek"/Oliver Hodger not banned for shill bidding? Have NameJet made any comments about this? I see him bidding on auctions every day at NameJet. Have NameJet done anything at all about the users who engaged in shill bidding?

Apparently not.

 

[Arca]

our policy is clear that sellers cannot bid on their own domains, period.

In our current investigation certain auction activity has come to light that we deem questionable and a possible violation of our terms. This kind of activity is not acceptable to us and we are taking steps to deal with it. We have suspended several accounts while working through the information we have available.

@NameJetGM - Numerous auction records clearly show, without a shadow of a doubt, that Oliver Hodger (seek) bid in his own auctions on domains he himself was selling. If your "policy is clear that sellers cannot bid on their own domains" then why are you letting this seller, who bid on his own domains, continue to compromise the integrity of your auction platform? By allowing such users to continue using your platform, even though they have participated extensively in shill bidding, you are making a mockery of your "Shill Bidding Policy" and telling the industry that you do not take shill bidding seriously and will not take against against users found to have carried out shill bidding on your platform.

 

[wwwweb]

Show attachment 72577


@NameJetGM - Numerous auction records clearly show, without a shadow of a doubt, that Oliver Hodger (seek) bid in his own auctions on domains he himself was selling. If your "policy is clear that sellers cannot bid on their own domains" then why are you letting this seller, who bid on his own domains, continue to compromise the integrity of your auction platform? By allowing such users to continue using your platform, even though they have participated extensively in shill bidding, you are making a mockery of your "Shill Bidding Policy" and telling the industry that you do not take shill bidding seriously and will not take against against users found to have carried out shill bidding on your platform.

Hasn't bothered to comment in the past 3.5 months...

NameJetGM was last seen: Yesterday at 7:33 AM
https://www.namepros.com/posts/6266502/
Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?
In an effort to keep everyone current as to where we stand on this matter, I wanted to share the following update. There have been some...

Post by: NameJetGM, Jul 19, 2017 in forum: Domain Marketplace Reviews

 

[Arca]

@NameJetGM

FTFY

 

[wwwweb]

@NameJetGM why are you creeping the thread, but scared to speak up?

 

[Michael]

I'm confused on how accurate the More domains from this seller - click here link is.

Using the example Amandas.com
Auction: http://www.namejet.com/Pages/Auctions/StandardDetails.aspx?auctionid=3956352
More domains from this seller - click here redirects: http://www.namejet.com/featuredauctions/hotdotnets

So [because more domains from this seller redirects to featured auction /hotdotnets] does that mean Amandas.com was auctioned from featured auction /hotdotnets 110 days ago around July 19th, 2017 (ie around the time this thread was created)?

The earliest screenshot on Archive.org for /hotdotnets is September 4th, 2017.

According to the below screenshot from July 19th, 2017 Amandas.com was listed in featuredauction/6ifd5lvs

Show attachment 72571

Any ideas what happened here?

If they rename a featured seller's page it updates all of the links. Pretty sure the 6ifd5lvs featured seller was renamed to hotdotnets (both are Oliver by the way), but it is the same account.

 

[Michael]

Why was "seek"/Oliver Hodger not banned for shill bidding? Have NameJet made any comments about this? I see him bidding on auctions every day at NameJet. Have NameJet done anything at all about the users who engaged in shill bidding?

He was banned both as a seller and a buyer, but then he was reinstated on or around September 2nd... probably when they realized half of their public inventory was gone. They never listed any names of who was banned, but he was; all of his auctions disappeared and he wasn't bidding for weeks. I guess they determined that bidding in hundreds and hundreds of his own auctions really was an "accident"... yeah.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

If they rename a featured seller's page it updates all of the links. Pretty sure the 6ifd5lvs featured seller was renamed to hotdotnets (both are Oliver by the way), but it is the same account.

That's logical.

So you can (a) rename featured auctions and (b) create new featured auctions?

Can you also (c) turn off featured auctions while you're selling? I've noticed a few open public auctions don't have a more domain's by this seller click here option.



Without knowing both the sellers featured auction and bidding alias, it's hard to confirm 100% if somebody bids on their domain. For those reasons I applaud NameJet for providing the view more domains by this seller link and unique bidder alias's. But if you can change, remove, and create new featured auction accounts, it would appear transparency is not the main reason why NJ provides the view more domains by this seller link.

We also confirmed earlier in this thread that one person can open up multiple bidding alias's.
Example: James Booth = BQDNcom and JamesB1989 | Oliver Hoger = Seek and Winner8888 (API bot)

 

[offthehandle]

I see wwwweb, they were here yesterday. Interesting.

The longer this thread grows now almost 4 months, and more eyeballs must be a concern, but not enough to comment. Silence on the part of all involved is very smart on their part. By default, it's like pleading the 5th. Thanks to @Grilled and all his countless hours of scouring the data and presented it is certainly self evident of a problem.

This is most likely a group effort and certain sellers and the company all are together as a “market making” team and have a code of silence.

Promoters of NJ auctions need to tip toe around. There are a number of NP members who sell there, and some of them will not even comment here again. Remember when this thread was dismissed by various people in the thread and outside of it, labeling it a witch hunt?

I have asked this question several times, but nobody has posted who closely follow the platform and auctions, please tell us WHO was also banned and no longer sells there? Anybody?

 

[wwwweb]

I see wwwweb, they were here yesterday. Interesting.

The longer this thread grows now almost 4 months, and more eyeballs must be a concern, but not enough to comment. Silence on the part of all involved is very smart on their part. By default, it's like pleading the 5th. Thanks to @Grilled and all his countless hours of scouring the data and presented it is certainly self evident of a problem.

This is most likely a group effort and certain sellers and the company all are together as a “market making” team and have a code of silence.

Promoters of NJ auctions need to tip toe around. There are a number of NP members who sell there, and some of them will not even comment here again. Remember when this thread was dismissed by various people in the thread and outside of it, labeling it a witch hunt?

I have asked this question several times, but nobody has posted who closely follow the platform and auctions, please tell us WHO was also banned and no longer sells there? Anybody?

They think if they don't say anything, it will go away, it has now grown to 60 pages, and is indexed into all search engines.

At the end of the day, they will only feel it if you stop listing with them, or buying there, I know many people still like to use the platform on a name by name basis, but confidence is down overall, and I am guessing so are sales. Prices are pretty high right now for aftermarket buys, so it is a good time to take a break into the new year.

Maybe that means No Christmas bonus for you @NameJetGM, since you are to spineless to respond, but ok to stalk. I hope your taking notes, I agree Grilled has done a great job with limited resources.

 

[Michael]

That's logical.

So you can (a) rename featured auctions and (b) create new featured auctions?

Can you also (c) turn off featured auctions while you're selling? I've noticed a few open public auctions don't have a more domain's by this seller click here option.

Show attachment 72584

Without knowing both the sellers featured auction and bidding alias, it's hard to confirm 100% if somebody bids on their domain. For those reasons I applaud NameJet for providing the view more domains by this seller link and unique bidder alias's. But if you can change, remove, and create new featured auction accounts, it would appear transparency is not the main reason why NJ provides the view more domains by this seller link.

You can auction your names on NameJet without having a featured page/link, and in that case there is no "view more" link. Getting a featured page used to be a privilege that not everyone got. It's my understanding that one seller account can only have one featured page, which can have the name changed or be removed entirely. I think if you want more than one featured page you need more than one seller account, but I could be mistaken about that. This, to me, would indicate that Oliver really had five bidding aliases, because he had five seller accounts that I know about.

It isn't about transparency, it's about having branded auctions and being able to drive traffic to a single page with all of your auctions on it and nobody else.

 

[tonyk2000]

There are a number of NP members who sell there

Somewhat risky imho. Yes, some domains may sell, some may not. I'd avoid selling on NameJet at this time, not because I do not want my domains to be sold, but because of a wise proverb "tell me who your friends are and i'll tell you who you are". Reputation means a lot in our industry and in any industry...

 

[offthehandle]

Somewhat risky imho. Yes, some domains may sell, some may not. I'd avoid selling on NameJet at this time, not because I do not want my domains to be sold, but because of a wise proverb "tell me who your friends are and i'll tell you who you are". Reputation means a lot in our industry and in any industry...

Thanks for posting that. That shows guts, appreciate it and so do all the others here. So you were selling before, but no longer. Can you say who was also banned?

This, to me, would indicate that Oliver really had five bidding aliases, because he had five seller accounts that I know about.

5 accounts? And the platform knew about it? I can't believe they didn't. Just wanted to say thanks for that hard work over these months and sharing that valuable information and participating here. We all appreciate it, I guess it' hard for us to show it. I know that my asking this question might put you on the spot, and just say so but who else was banned? If not who, how many other sellers can you tell were banned also or had other ID monkey business? Can you mention it? I cannot believe the guy with 5 accounts was the only one.

 

[tonyk2000]

So you were selling before, but no longer.

No, I never listed my domains at namejet. I meant to say that any honest seller should better avoid NJ as a selling venue at this time.

 

[Arca]

I hope NameJet's General Manager Jonathan Tenenbaum @NameJetGM will realize the gravity and implications of reinstating the account of a serial shill bidder, and realize that he needs to publicly account for their rationale behind allowing shill bidders on NameJet.

Why does he continue to lurk in this thread without providing any updates about how they are dealing with the shill bidders on their platform? What are they hiding? It appears that they no longer care about even trying to maintain even a semblance of integrity and credibility.

The complete secrecy and lack of transparency strongly suggest that their handling of shill bidders won't stand the light of day, and as a result their response to this issue has been reduced to mere silence.

 

[wwwweb]

I hope NameJet's General Manager Jonathan Tenenbaum @NameJetGM will realize the gravity and implications of reinstating the account of a serial shill bidder, and realize that he needs to publicly account for their rationale behind allowing shill bidders on NameJet.

Why does he continue to lurk in this thread without providing any updates about how they are dealing with the shill bidders on their platform? What are they hiding? It appears that they no longer care about even trying to maintain even a semblance of integrity and credibility.

The complete secrecy and lack of transparency strongly suggest that their handling of shill bidders won't stand the light of day, and as a result their response to this issue has been reduced to mere silence.

Looks like he changed his setting to hide his last login activities.

Guess he wants to lurk a little harder...

What is he scared of, the truth?


'Silence and smiles are two powerful tools. A Smile is the way to solve many problems, and silence is the way to avoid many problems'

 

[Arca]

Looks like he changed his setting to hide his last login activities.

Guess he wants to lurk a little harder...

What is he scared of, the truth?

Further secretiveness is certainly not the response I was hoping for...

I guess Jonathan Tenenbaum doesn't mind being remembered as the NamJet GM that strove to normalize the tolerance of shill bidders on NameJet...

 

[wwwweb]

Further secretiveness is certainly not the response I was hoping for...

I guess Jonathan Tenenbaum doesn't mind being remembered as the NamJet GM that strove to normalize the tolerance of shill bidders on NameJet...

Jonathan Tenenbaum has clearly put profits before ethics, and is scared to answer the tough questions, so he hides in the background, reading our thoughts on the matter.

Feel free to comment Johnny boy!

 

[tonyk2000]

I have nothing against Jonathan Tenenbaum personally. I never met him and never dealt with him directly on any occasion. What if he is simply a corporate employee who was _told_ to stop posting here? Indeed, he was reasonably active first - but stopped posting once and forever. This is strange. Since he is reading all the things - hopefully the whole namejet team and their higher decisionmakers / executives are at least aware of all the findings posted here and in somewhat related media options thread.

 

[Kate]

@NameJetGM why are you creeping the thread, but scared to speak up?

Pretty sure that the legal dept at NJ has advised employees to stay mum.

 

[Michael]

5 accounts? And the platform knew about it? I can't believe they didn't. Just wanted to say thanks for that hard work over these months and sharing that valuable information and participating here. We all appreciate it, I guess it' hard for us to show it. I know that my asking this question might put you on the spot, and just say so but who else was banned? If not who, how many other sellers can you tell were banned also or had other ID monkey business? Can you mention it? I cannot believe the guy with 5 accounts was the only one.

It's hard to say with any certainty because there is a lot of movement on their featured auctions page. For example the day after the press release there were five new featured auctions that didn't exist a few days before the press release, four of which were removed in the months following, so all of that happened entirely after the scandal. And not being listed on the page doesn't necessarily mean they were removed or suspended, it could just mean they didn't have any active auctions any more.

But I took a look and there were nine featured auction pages that existed a few days before their press release that didn't exist the day after it. Five were Oliver's, but I'm not comfortable listing the other four as I don't know what happened to them. For example one of them only existed to list a single domain that ended up selling for low $xxx. The auction ended successfully a few days after the featured page was removed, so they were probably just getting rid of the page because it wasn't worth the space. Another only had two auctions running at the time, and it's possible they happened to end around the press release or it is another case of not being worth the space. The other two were very small sellers with not many names listed, and the names were really bad, so could have been yet more cleanup.

Also in fairness I just re-read the press release and they phrased it as suspended, not banned. So Oliver wasn't banned and then reinstated, he was suspended pending further investigation and then the suspension was lifted. Mostly semantics, but worth noting. I don't believe their investigation came to the correct conclusion, but it is what it is.

Regarding bidder aliases being suspended, it's difficult to say. There are more than 4,000 aliases that had bid in the year prior to the press release that didn't bid in the month after, and more than 750 that bid in the month prior that didn't bid in the month after.

Although if we look at aliases that were very active and placed more than 40 bids in the month prior to the press release but didn't bid once in the month after, the list gets much shorter at just 14 names. I don't feel comfortable publishing this either because not bidding doesn't mean the user was suspended, maybe they were on holiday or were boycotting NameJet or quit domaining. Not fair to implicate people without any proof.

But I can say that both seek and hkdn were in this list, winner8888 wasn't because he was banned a while ago. And of the other 12 I was able to positively identify 8 people as not being Oliver and they didn't appear to be NJ sellers either, and the other four I couldn't identify because they never won an auction. But none of the 12 seemed to favor any particular seller more than just a propensity for short domains, or have suspicious bidding patterns, so they might not have been suspended at all.

 

[Michael M]

It's hard to say with any certainty because there is a lot of movement on their featured auctions page. For example the day after the press release there were five new featured auctions that didn't exist a few days before the press release, four of which were removed in the months following, so all of that happened entirely after the scandal. And not being listed on the page doesn't necessarily mean they were removed or suspended, it could just mean they didn't have any active auctions any more.

But I took a look and there were nine featured auction pages that existed a few days before their press release that didn't exist the day after it. Five were Oliver's, but I'm not comfortable listing the other four as I don't know what happened to them. For example one of them only existed to list a single domain that ended up selling for low $xxx. The auction ended successfully a few days after the featured page was removed, so they were probably just getting rid of the page because it wasn't worth the space. Another only had two auctions running at the time, and it's possible they happened to end around the press release or it is another case of not being worth the space. The other two were very small sellers with not many names listed, and the names were really bad, so could have been yet more cleanup.

Also in fairness I just re-read the press release and they phrased it as suspended, not banned. So Oliver wasn't banned and then reinstated, he was suspended pending further investigation and then the suspension was lifted. Mostly semantics, but worth noting. I don't believe their investigation came to the correct conclusion, but it is what it is.

Regarding bidder aliases being suspended, it's difficult to say. There are more than 4,000 aliases that had bid in the year prior to the press release that didn't bid in the month after, and more than 750 that bid in the month prior that didn't bid in the month after.

Although if we look at aliases that were very active and placed more than 40 bids in the month prior to the press release but didn't bid once in the month after, the list gets much shorter at just 14 names. I don't feel comfortable publishing this either because not bidding doesn't mean the user was suspended, maybe they were on holiday or were boycotting NameJet or quit domaining. Not fair to implicate people without any proof.

But I can say that both seek and hkdn were in this list, winner8888 wasn't because he was banned a while ago. And of the other 12 I was able to positively identify 8 people as not being Oliver and they didn't appear to be NJ sellers either, and the other four I couldn't identify because they never won an auction. But none of the 12 seemed to favor any particular seller more than just a propensity for short domains, or have suspicious bidding patterns, so they might not have been suspended at all.

Hmm... Just waking up and reading recent events in this thread... If my fuzzy brain is working right this morning I gather that one person was the main suspected culprit identified when this thread got rolling, and after much research that suspect is still standing out as the main abuser of the NJ auction system - yet his account(s) have been reactivated.

If this is the case - I am sure someone in his shoes would be careful for a while to not leave any more breadcrumbs - at least until they think the heat is off.

But my main take-away is that it appears NJ was complicit (even if passively) with a suspected scheme to allow the artificial inflation of a certain seller's prices.

Other shillers may have been banned, but I suspect their benefit to NJ's bottom line would not have been as significant. Is there a certain profit threshold you must achieve before NJ allows you to be an active shill bidder on their platform?

Uggg... It is just disappointing to see the auction houses turning a blind eye, deaf ear, and closed mouth to the market manipulation going on at the moment. I can't help but come to the conclusion that this may have been that status quo for quite some time - hence the industry's reluctance to do anything about it. There is too much money to be lost if the scheme doesn't continue.

 

[Michael M]

Wow... It appears NJ has erased all auction history on their website?!

What would be a legitimate reason for this?

I believe that is the opposite of transparent - right?