- Impact
- 2
I visited here every day.But seems no more news here.
.mobi dead or .mobi on NP dead ?
.mobi dead or .mobi on NP dead ?
Plenty of real world investors in many different industries speculate on investments that pay off over time. Stocks, land, mining, etc. Some require some kind of "development". (Buffet on the very conservative side of the investing spectrum. - - But he too will buy assets to hold - expecting those companies' efforts or market segment improvement to pay off in the long term.) I'm not saying that .mobi = those other investments. I AM saying though that investing in domains that some people do not like or understand CAN provide profits. Profits can be gained over the HOLDER's time period - not on that of casual observers or armchair quarterbacks.Wake me up when Warren Buffet starts speculating on investments that produce no revenue. You aren't Warren Buffet, I'm not Warren Buffet, so lets put to sleep all these meaningless comparisons and see the market for what it is is, *values* - what .mobi domains are actually worth, have fallen 90%-100%.
Fact is - MORE money is LOST/WASTED on dropped names each MONTH than is spent on ALL the .mobi regs for an entire YEAR.
Snoop - you generalized earlier in this thread that .mobi investments can not pay for themselves or domainers can not make money with it. You are wrong. I gave a quick concrete example earlier in this thread. You asked for examples to my claim that .mobi sales can cover reg fees. I showed how just three actual 2009 sales whose $x,xxx revenue cover renewal fees for 900 names.(BTW - Those three names were landrush regs that required one renewal each. Is that the cost side of the equation you were looking for? I mistakenly assumed that it would be understood in my initial argument.)
What's fallen 90%-100% ... hmm .... look at these recent examples posted at another forum frequented by someone coincidentally (?) named "snoopy" ...
.............
...Here's what that someone named "snoopy" posted at another forum about that last one:
"...Then again the .net market overall has had a very major fall. 95% loss after fees for this one."
OUCH !!! - HUGE DOLLAR LOSSES all on those "top-extension" domains bought at the TRAFFIC domainer conferences - (you know - "by invitation only" events where maybe the "top" 1% +/- of "experienced" domainers go to schmooze, make deals, and enjoy the fruits of their labors. Evidently even "experts" can often get it wrong - and BIGTIME. But maybe that's okay because those investments were made on domains in "top" extensions.
Fact is - MASSIVE domainer DOLLARS are being LOST due to selling off (dumping) .com/.net/.org names TOO.
.
Fact is - MORE money is LOST/WASTED on dropped names each MONTH than is spent on ALL the .mobi regs for an entire YEAR. Seems to me that's 100% losses on all those .com/.net/.org regs by domainers EVERY year.
.
.
I think premium .com's are generally down about 50% as an average, .net maybe 70-80% as an average. That is still miles better than how .mobi has performed. I don't see .net as a "top extension". It is half way between .mobi and .com. Mediocre might be a better word.
I know enough that for 2 years I published my own magazine. Don't assume what I know. I have lots of experience in different fields. You're just going off on a tangent about print. It's for the most part unrelated to this discussion.
I still stand by that statement firmly.
snoop said:Like I said a week or so ago let's talk real numbers,
-what have you spent on renewal fees
-what have you made from sales
Why is it so hard for people to just be clear on whether they have made money or not? It doesn't matter whether your sales could cover 900 registrations, have you made money?
One think I know is the vast majority of domainers have lost money on .mobi (I know of one person who has made a profit on .mobi - mjnels), the failure rate has been much higher than established extensions.
It may be "Fairy tale math" to you because they weren't your sales but those were actual real-world actual sales examples.jesse said:You continue to bring in fairy tale math and speculation while completely ignoring any current and recent history. I wish you luck with those blinders you have on.
Performance percentages do not tell the real painful story of the collective domainer pocketbook.snoop said:I think premium .com's are generally down about 50% as an average, .net maybe 70-80% as an average. That is still miles better than how .mobi has performed.
So according to your signature then you're trying to pawn off mediocre extension names?snoop said:I don't see .net as a "top extension". It is half way between .mobi and .com. Mediocre might be a better word.
You guys are so quick to bash "alternative" extension investments (especially .mobi) you fail to acknowledge the huge DOLLAR losses that people take in com/net/org. HUGE annual wasting of tens of millions of dollars in reg fees that will drop or sell for $x. Percentages are irrelevant. Dollars totals are.
Domainers have and will continue to register crappy names in ALL extensions and those names will likely be dropped for a 100% loss. I know that more $$$ will be made with .com names - but - far more domainer DOLLARS will be wasted and lost too on .com/.net/.org.
All the com/net/org-only advice of "experts" has likely steered many domainer dollars to reg and buy inferior "brandable" .com/net/org names and away from the possibility of acquiring good, usable names in "alternative" extensions.
It may be "Fairy tale math" to you because they weren't your sales but those were actual real-world actual sales examples.
Blinders is believing that .com/.net/.org is only the game in town and that it will be like that forever. Reality is observing market and online evolution and seeing that "alternative" extensions have a place in the marketplace and real world too.
A 50% loss on .coms on $780M = $390M lost value down the drain (IF they sold now in this market)
A 80% loss on .nets on $120M = $96M lost value
A 90% loss on .mobi on $9M = $8M lost value
(Of course no one can provide real numbers for this so I used the relative number of regs in each extension for argument's sake - 78M/12M/900k.)
So even if .mobi has taken a larger "%" fall in resale value in the last year's economic downturn - .mobi also has a better chance to see a larger "%" upswing in value in the recovery. We've see that happen in the stock markets - DOW stocks vs Russel 2000 or emerging market stocks. Volatility in small cap, OTCBB, and emerging market stocks reflects a similar risk/reward ratio. More risk = more reward. Holding the better companies in a small stock portfolio is like regging and buying better names in .mobi or other of the better "alt" extension domains. Obviously, better quality names have a larger target audience and higher probability of selling in the future.
So according to your signature then you're trying to pawn off mediocre extension names?
Don't worry snoop, I think it's a nice name. Good luck with it.
It's been part of my argument all along. All the perennial >>anti-mobi investment<< arguments fail to acknowledge that FAR MORE MONEY (total, real, no-longer-available-to-spend dollars) is being LOST and can potentially be lost by domainers in CNO names due to their sheer number and years of lofty valuations.snoop said:This is what you said a few posts ago,
"...Here's what that someone named "snoopy" posted at another forum about that last one:
"...Then again the .net market overall has had a very major fall. 95% loss after fees for this one."
Now your argument is that I have "fail to acknowledge the huge DOLLAR losses that people take in com/net/org"?
What's "fuddy duddy" logic is ONLY looking at some relative % figure of market value instead of the TOTAL REAL DOLLARS LOST by domainers selling off their CNOs or whatever. They're GONE. Those dollars are gone. Not theoretical. "The bigger they are the harder they fall." Very BIG $$,$$$ domainer CNO losses = Very HARD falls.snoop said:It is all fuddy duddy logic. It is very clear the % losses in established extensions are far lower than what .mobi has seen. As has been stated countless times of course the dollar values will be higher in .com, that is because the market is so much bigger.
Dot mobi is in the game, the beginning of IT'S game - being part of the buildout of the mobile web. If you don't have any good .mobis to sell then you are not in THIS game. Nothing says one has to be in any/every game. But a lot of people sure are hanging around the .mobi stables while they have no horses in the race.snoop said:Who is arguing that? The argument I see being made is that .mobi is not in the game, not that c/n/o is the only game.
It surely it paints a worse picture for balance sheets of CNO domainers who are taking HUGE ACTUAL LOSSES after years of paying 8x-12x (or what ever multiple you want to use) yearly PPC parking earnings for names during the 2000's. Paying multiples according to the "expert" domainer evaluation formulas of the day got them to this point.snoop said:Surely that paints are very bad picture for .mobi?
It's a pretty time-proven theory - hardly meaningless. Most asset classes that fall during a huge recession and/or market correction do go up again. If Mark Twain was around during this discussion about .mobi he would have likely said, "The reports of .mobi's death are greatly exaggerated".snoop said:This basically relies on the thoery that whatever goes down must go up? All these analogies are rather meaningless in my view.
I must have missed seeing that disclaimer on the sales page description.snoop said:Of course. If I thought it was a great extension I wouldn't be selling the name.
Thought you guys might be interested in this article: Official Google Blog: Designing useful mobile services for Africa
Can't wait to see the Internet reach more people through cell phones
Snoop made a claim that MJ was the only person who's making money on dotmobi!
here better be WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more CNO reported sales than .mobi sales, especially in the $x,xxx and above range. 100x as many.
It's not a pretty picture for the entire domain market. The domain correction is exacerbated by a recession in the general world economy. No one is glad to see so many entrepreneurs and small business people (CNO domainers or anyone else) incurring such losses. I'm only bringing it up to make my point - conventional thinking does not protect one from real losses.
It's a pretty time-proven theory - hardly meaningless. Most asset classes that fall during a huge recession and/or market correction do go up again. If Mark Twain was around during this discussion about .mobi he would have likely said, "The reports of .mobi's death are greatly exaggerated".
I said he is the only person I know of who has made money from it. I'm sure there are others, but not a lot.
---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------
It is pretty obvious from reported sales that it is. As has already been stated dnjournal has one .mobi sale in their chart this year, that is down from half a dozen last year and 40+ the year before. The trend is fairly apparent. The relative position of .mobi is rapidly falling.
There is no debate about this, the entire market has crashed. My point is that .mobi has seen much larger losses. The .mobi market is tiny and much lower in dollar term but that doesn't change the fact that it has perfomed far worse than established extensions, to the point where the market hardly even exists any more. The fact is people generally would have done far better avoiding this extension. Essentially though this is an argument going nowhere because you are playing around with numbers trying to prove something that obviously is not correct.
I wouldn't call it a "correction" in .mobi prices, a correction generally means a 10% fall not a 90%-100% fall. What we have seen with .mobi is the bursting of a bubble. Some thing take decades to come back or never do come back.
I've been very busy 'offline' this week but this thread is still looking lively... some excellent posts on both sides of the fence.... Snoop made a claim that MJ was the only person who's making money on dotmobi! - I think it's important to clarify that MJ buys $100 domains at $10 & sells them for $20...... and does so day in, day out...
So technically he is making money (most of the time) but I think that MJ is operating a 'wholesale / warehouse' type of operation whereas most domainers don't just buy to flip for a few dollars.
The truth is that most mobi domains remain unsold simply because they are not being openly offered for sale.... you can't value any 'market' based on thin trade trading figures, some stock prices have collapsed 90% + but a loss in not a loss until it is crystallised upon disposal.... most holders sit it out until the market comes back... often it does.... sometimes it doesn't..
So the stats being thrown around are pretty meaningless; you can tell any story you like using stats...
That same domain could be $50 or $5,000 in 2011+ .... we'll just have to wait & see
As for DNJ...... Are you seriously going to tell me that only one dotmobi has sold at a newsworthy price this year?:
With the greatest respect Snoop, you do talk some rubbish sometimes... Thinking about the last 3 decades; i.e in todays society (say 1979 to 2009) what can you think of that 'went' & took 'decades to come back'
....but I really can't think of anything remotely related to technology / internet etc.. that has a time frame / cycle that is measured in years and not months..... and certainly not decades!
So!.... A correction IS a 10% fall is it? :tri:
You are funny, you accuse others of 'making things up as they go along' and then you make up something of your own! lol... In truth, a correction can quite feasibly be anything between 5% & 50%
A 'crash' can be anything from 20% to 90% - I've seen falls in some stocks called 'crashes' yet fall in single digit %'s!
As for DNJ...... Are you seriously going to tell me that only one dotmobi has sold at a newsworthy price this year?
Let's be quite frank about this.... just because sales can be reported to DNJ or anywhere else for that matter, it doesn't mean that sales are reported... there is absolutely no reason for any sale to be reported and it is very hard to track sales stats unless the buyer & seller are willing to volunteer that information.
I don't know what % of sales are reported to DNJ but I'd guess it's way less than half; put it this way; - according to your reliable source (DNJ) there have only been around 47 notable dotmobi sales since Sept 2006?).
I think not! lol :sold:
Toodle Pip
That's the problem with emotive terms like these... they are almost meaningless because they are always used in context... without the context, they could mean anything at all.
I have purchased several .mobis this year for low $x,xxx (each)
Snoop...you always bring good sober arguments to any discussion. Unfortunately those drunk by mobi aren't going to get on the wagon and move on.
It will be interesting in two more years imho when I believe the valuation of mobi will be stable.
Most of your statements are about mobi's future which totally negate any current or past context.
Anything over $2k I believe you can and should report to DNJ. Mobi could use the exposure of high profile sales. I also wonder what was paid originally for these domains. Would you call it a success for mobi if the previous owner lost thousands? That's a likely scenario imho.
I said he is the only person I know of who has made money from it. I'm sure there are others, but not a lot.
It is pretty obvious from reported sales that it is. As has already been stated dnjournal has one .mobi sale in their chart this year, that is down from half a dozen last year and 40+ the year before. The trend is fairly apparent. The relative position of .mobi is rapidly falling.
Continued kudos for your smart and hard work. Efforts do pay off.what happened to the the reported sale at dnjournal on monday iou.mobi sold for 3k
ive sold 3 names for over 1k the past year ive never reported one single sale to dnjournal. why should i? because i never visit dnjournal doesnt mean the saes didint happen.
i earn 3.5k a month from my developed mobi. with a plan to develop a couple more high earning sites in the next month i expect to earn another 1.5k- 2k a month from.
im not posting screen shots anymore. if anyone cares to look at my previous posts you can find screen shots of some of my earnings, or you can download the mobi book that was published last year by javier. the book features my earnings from 2007.
cheers
Rob
WARNING: Some anti-mobi people can't generally seem to accept ANY explanations from pro-mobi posters - they summarily dismiss them as "excuses". So be ready for those responses to the following points. I'm just posting them here for other open minds to consider.snoop said:As has already been stated dnjournal has one .mobi sale in their chart this year, that is down from half a dozen last year and 40+ the year before. The trend is fairly apparent. The relative position of .mobi is rapidly falling.
The fact is that is a very limited and biased .commer-only comment. You can't even acknowledge the profits or any potential possibilities envisioned by those who regged USABLE, KEYWORD and GOOD LLL.mobi domains. Domainers would be better off doing what in late 2006 ? - just buying one or two INFLATED priced mediocre .com names only to see them deflate along with the entire domain market. That's it, the only option? No room for entrepreneurial thinking? Dot-com-only. If it works for you fine. Great. But you shouldn't so quickly and easily dis other domainers' plans.snoop said:The fact is people generally would have done far better avoiding this extension.
snoop said:Essentially though this is an argument going nowhere because you are playing around with numbers trying to prove something that obviously is not correct.
I think your new signature should read .. " This poster is heavily biased."snoop said:Warning: This poster is heavily biased towards extensions that make money.
what happened to the the reported sale at dnjournal on monday iou.mobi sold for 3k
ive sold 3 names for over 1k the past year ive never reported one single sale to dnjournal. why should i? because i never visit dnjournal doesnt mean the saes didint happen.
i earn 3.5k a month from my developed mobi. with a plan to develop a couple more high earning sites in the next month i expect to earn another 1.5k- 2k a month from.
im not posting screen shots anymore. if anyone cares to look at my previous posts you can find screen shots of some of my earnings, or you can download the mobi book that was published last year by javier. the book features my earnings from 2007.
cheers
Rob
development is domaining
>>OnlineFinancing _ com
Bought: Feb 2008 Traffic - $17,500
Allowed to EXPIRE !!! in 2009 - $0.00
(& then auctioned and sold for $4,805)
That's a 100% LOSS taken on a DOT COM by a "seasoned" domainer.
>>CentralAmerica _ net:
Bought: February 2008 TRAFFIC auction - $12,000
Sold: June 2009 - NameJet - $3,433.
>>Snowmobiles _ net
Bought: February 2008 - TRAFFIC auction - $17,000
Sold June 2009 - NameJet - $3,433
>>HighSpeed _ net
Bought: 2007 T.R.A.F.F.I.C. Silicon Valley - $27,000
Sold: 2009 Moniker sale - $1,500
HUGE LOSS on a .net
.
.
It is fair to assume that .mobi sales are reported to DNJ as much as other extensions isn't it ? Obviously many if not most sales go unreported but the share of .mobi in the sales reports has shrunken like Madoff stocks.It is no surprise to have a lack of high value reported sales of .mobi names on that list. The market prices are down all around and buyers are tight fisted. NO ONE likes to see this. It is not good for ANY of our fellow domainers.
Excuse me but I didn't notice my CNO portfolio has lost value. Actually end user sales are going strong, thank you.Because, considering the millions of dropped names and reported huge losses on CNO domains, obviously there are MANY domainers for whom the com./net/org extension is not a panacea.
when snoop is talking about "people that made money with .mobi" he means just pure domaining... and even i haven't made very much like this.. yea there are a few others but you had to get in early.
you can make money developing sites on any TLD.. because what generates revenue is your hard work.. not the TLD itself really.