acc

Plenty of real world investors in many different industries speculate on investments that pay off over time. Stocks, land, mining, etc. Some require some kind of "development". (Buffet on the very conservative side of the investing spectrum. - - But he too will buy assets to hold - expecting those companies' efforts or market segment improvement to pay off in the long term.) I'm not saying that .mobi = those other investments. I AM saying though that investing in domains that some people do not like or understand CAN provide profits. Profits can be gained over the HOLDER's time period - not on that of casual observers or armchair quarterbacks.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/dot-mobi/590359-mobi-dead-or-mobi-np-dead.html

Snoop - you generalized earlier in this thread that .mobi investments can not pay for themselves or domainers can not make money with it. You are wrong. I gave a quick concrete example earlier in this thread. You asked for examples to my claim that .mobi sales can cover reg fees. I showed how just three actual 2009 sales whose $x,xxx revenue cover renewal fees for 900 names.(BTW - Those three names were landrush regs that required one renewal each. Is that the cost side of the equation you were looking for? I mistakenly assumed that it would be understood in my initial argument.)

What's fallen 90%-100% ... hmm .... look at these recent examples posted at another forum frequented by someone coincidentally (?) named "snoopy" ...
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

>>OnlineFinancing _ com
Bought: Feb 2008 Traffic - $17,500
Allowed to EXPIRE !!! in 2009 - $0.00
(& then auctioned and sold for $4,805)
That's a 100% LOSS taken on a DOT COM by a "seasoned" domainer.

>>CentralAmerica _ net:
Bought: February 2008 TRAFFIC auction - $12,000
Sold: June 2009 - NameJet - $3,433.

>>Snowmobiles _ net
Bought: February 2008 - TRAFFIC auction - $17,000
Sold June 2009 - NameJet - $3,433

>>HighSpeed _ net
Bought: 2007 T.R.A.F.F.I.C. Silicon Valley - $27,000
Sold: 2009 Moniker sale - $1,500
HUGE LOSS on a .net

...Here's what that someone named "snoopy" posted at another forum about that last one:
"...Then again the .net market overall has had a very major fall. 95% loss after fees for this one."


OUCH !!! - HUGE DOLLAR LOSSES all on those "top-extension" domains bought at the TRAFFIC domainer conferences - (you know - "by invitation only" events where maybe the "top" 1% +/- of "experienced" domainers go to schmooze, make deals, and enjoy the fruits of their labors. Evidently even "experts" can often get it wrong - and BIGTIME. But maybe that's okay because those investments were made on domains in "top" extensions.


Fact is - MASSIVE domainer DOLLARS are being LOST due to selling off (dumping) .com/.net/.org names TOO.
.
Fact is - MORE money is LOST/WASTED on dropped names each MONTH than is spent on ALL the .mobi regs for an entire YEAR. Seems to me that's 100% losses on all those .com/.net/.org regs by domainers EVERY year.
.

.

labrocca

acc you're highlighting a handful of failures and ignoring the many success stories of CNO.

Why not really counter the argument of mobi having low value with some top mobi sales that are recent.

You can't compare the handful of mobi successes vs the handful of CNO failures. I ain't gonna buy into that argument.

DNJournal.com Year to Date Domain Sales Charts

Stats don't lie.

VIP.mobi $10,099 Sedo 3/15/09

That's it for mobi. One lousy sale in 7 months.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

You continue to bring in fairy tale math and speculation while completely ignoring any current and recent history. I wish you luck with those blinders you have on.

Fact is - MORE money is earned on sold names each MONTH than is spent on ALL the .mobi regs for the entire YEAR.

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snoop

Like I said a week or so ago let's talk real numbers,
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

-what have you spent on renewal fees
-what have you made from sales

Why is it so hard for people to just be clear on whether they have made money or not? It doesn't matter whether your sales could cover 900 registrations, have you made money? One think I know is the vast majority of domainers have lost money on .mobi (I know of one person who has made a profit on .mobi - mjnels), the failure rate has been much higher than established extensions.

I think premium .com's are generally down about 50% as an average, .net maybe 70-80% as an average. That is still miles better than how .mobi has performed. I don't see .net as a "top extension". It is half way between .mobi and .com. Mediocre might be a better word.

kemjika11

You make a good point supporting why .mobi is still struggling. on the other hand, i disagree .net is not a top extension. THe numbers prove it is a top extension. It has a large alternative appeal in the world despite what domainers think of it.

.mobi....lol....i can tell you, this is already one of the best threads on NP this year.

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????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359
If its unrelated then maybe you shouldn't have been bringing it up. Your statement is false. I have spoken to with Management and board members of McClatchy and Tribune on this subject. I would say I have much more experience in this area and you are far from an expert in the media industry.

acc

Domainers CAN be successful and profit with .mobi names and/or cover renewal fees while holding for future resale or development. As I stated numerous times - GOOD, USABLE names are sellable in so called "alternate" extensions that make sense. Dot mobi makes sense. Some of you guys don't believe it. Some of you guys refuse to even consider it.

I gave you an example that illustrates how selling just a handful of names from a decent domain portfolio can cover holding hundreds of other names at $10/year each. Names in extensions other than just com/net/org CAN be profitable investments.

Those were real numbers and yes, sales of a tiny percentage of my .mobi portfolio have easily covered annual renewal fees, will again this year, and I believe they will also in future years too. With all due respect, beyond that, additional details are none of your or anyone else's business.

How could you possibly KNOW the detailed financial positions of the "vast majority" of .mobi domainers to make your conclusions? Your attempt to set some arbitrary "failure rate" metric and attribute the worst of it to .mobi domainers is also missing the BIGGER picture. My argument is that if you really want to see a value "failure" you have to look at "total domainer dollars".

Just look through the domainer forum sales threads and look at all the totally useless names for sale - in com/net/org. Go through the DAILY drop lists cluttered with tens of thousands of com/net/org "failures". New domainers reg 100x as many of those.

Then - consider the examples of .com/.net names I gave - they illustrate how "mainstream" domain thinking is not immune to HUGE losses. Of course those are only some examples, but eye-popping they are none the less. What percentage of the members/readership of this forum can afford to lose $xx,xxx on a domain name?

You guys are so quick to bash "alternative" extension investments (especially .mobi) you fail to acknowledge the huge DOLLAR losses that people take in com/net/org. HUGE annual wasting of tens of millions of dollars in reg fees that will drop or sell for $x. Percentages are irrelevant. Dollars totals are.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Domainers have and will continue to register crappy names in ALL extensions and those names will likely be dropped for a 100% loss. I know that more $$$ will be made with .com names - but - far more domainer DOLLARS will be wasted and lost too on .com/.net/.org.

All the com/net/org-only advice of "experts" has likely steered many domainer dollars to reg and buy inferior "brandable" .com/net/org names and away from the possibility of acquiring good, usable names in "alternative" extensions.

It may be "Fairy tale math" to you because they weren't your sales but those were actual real-world actual sales examples.

Blinders is believing that .com/.net/.org is only the game in town and that it will be like that forever. Reality is observing market and online evolution and seeing that "alternative" extensions have a place in the marketplace and real world too.

Reality is also witnessing MANY MANY MANY more TOTAL DOLLARS being lost in CNO. Sure the base is larger but the REAL DOLLARS lost there are larger too - probably by a factor of 50x or more.

Performance percentages do not tell the real painful story of the collective domainer pocketbook.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Using snoop's rough %'s, and assigning just a $10 value to each domain, domainers might find it interesting to consider these potential TOTAL DOLLAR value losses:
A 50% loss on .coms on $780M = $390M lost value down the drain (IF they sold now in this market)
A 80% loss on .nets on $120M = $96M lost value
A 90% loss on .mobi on $9M = $8M lost value
(Of course no one can provide real numbers for this so I used the relative number of regs in each extension for argument's sake - 78M/12M/900k.)

Now since we all know that the good names are worth MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than $10 each. So then the numbers are probably more like:
.com $8B - 50% = $4B total lost value
.net $1.2B - 80% = $960M total lost value
.mobi $90M - 90% = $81M total lost value

Therefore in this example, collectively .com and .net domainer assets have dropped about 5 Billion dollars in value and .mobi domainer assets have dropped 80 Million dollars in value. It's easy to see where the real OUCH is. ... Before you say it I understand that not all names will be sold for the loss. many are in use, etc. I was just likening the drop in domain market values it to a fall in a country's GNP.

So even if .mobi has taken a larger "%" fall in resale value in the last year's economic downturn - .mobi also has a better chance to see a larger "%" upswing in value in the recovery. We've see that happen in the stock markets - DOW stocks vs Russel 2000 or emerging market stocks. Volatility in small cap, OTCBB, and emerging market stocks reflects a similar risk/reward ratio. More risk = more reward. Holding the better companies in a small stock portfolio is like regging and buying better names in .mobi or other of the better "alt" extension domains. Obviously, better quality names have a larger target audience and higher probability of selling in the future.

So according to your signature then you're trying to pawn off mediocre extension names? ;-)
Don't worry snoop, I think it's a nice name. Good luck with it.

ALL domain names are speculative investments - .com-.net-.org included.

Domainers shouldn't buy "alternative" extension names if they don't understand their application or believe in them. But that also shouldn't preclude many domainers from owning some GOOD, USABLE .mobi names just because an entrenched domainer mindset of ".com-only" tells them so.
.

snoop

This is what you said a few posts ago,

"...Here's what that someone named "snoopy" posted at another forum about that last one:
"...Then again the .net market overall has had a very major fall. 95% loss after fees for this one."

Now your argument is that I have "fail to acknowledge the huge DOLLAR losses that people take in com/net/org"?

As you know I've been posting about the losses from .com/.net/.org for 18 months. Whilst the .com/.net/.org market has crashed the .mobi market has suffered something far worse, "wipeout" is more the word.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

It is all fuddy duddy logic. It is very clear the % losses in established extensions are far lower than what .mobi has seen. As has been stated countless times of course the dollar values will be higher in .com, that is because the market is so much bigger.

Who is arguing that? The argument I see being made is that .mobi is not in the game, not that c/n/o is the only game.

Surely that paints are very bad picture for .mobi?


This basically relies on the thoery that whatever goes down must go up? All these analogies are rather meaningless in my view.


Of course. If I thought it was a great extension I wouldn't be selling the name.

-REECE-

Thought you guys might be interested in this article: Official Google Blog: Designing useful mobile services for Africa

Can't wait to see the Internet reach more people through cell phones

acc

It's been part of my argument all along. All the perennial >>anti-mobi investment<< arguments fail to acknowledge that FAR MORE MONEY (total, real, no-longer-available-to-spend dollars) is being LOST and can potentially be lost by domainers in CNO names due to their sheer number and years of lofty valuations.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Instead of focusing on some relative % figure, maybe you should stop for a momemnt and take something more important into consideration. That is the fact that a much GREATER raw number of CNO names have been bought on the aftermarket over the past X number of years while the vast majority of the .mobi names held by domainers are landrush regs or other hand regs. Only a small number of names were aftermarket purchases for large dollar amounts. So ACTUAL or projected DOLLAR losses on .mobi (IF names were sold into this market) are and would be relatively far LESS than any losses taken on CNO names (IF names were sold into this market).

You may want to really think about that and then re-asess your argument. You are making general market assumptions based upon about the relative aftermarket fall in prices in % terms. You are projecting estimated % "falls" in your general market price observations onto actual acquisition/disposition costs of all domains.

You say you have been reporting on CNO losses for 18 months now. Thank you.

Therefore then, your knowledge of the market must also tell you that MOST of the "wipeout" of capital in the domainer world in 2008/2009 is from those CNO losses - REAL DOLLARS LOST - not theoretical dollars just based on some applied metric. Yes, that is a sad "wipeout" of actual domaining capital.

What's "fuddy duddy" logic is ONLY looking at some relative % figure of market value instead of the TOTAL REAL DOLLARS LOST by domainers selling off their CNOs or whatever. They're GONE. Those dollars are gone. Not theoretical. "The bigger they are the harder they fall." Very BIG $$,$$$ domainer CNO losses = Very HARD falls.

Dot mobi is in the game, the beginning of IT'S game - being part of the buildout of the mobile web. If you don't have any good .mobis to sell then you are not in THIS game. Nothing says one has to be in any/every game. But a lot of people sure are hanging around the .mobi stables while they have no horses in the race.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

There are about 100 million com/net/org domains registered and less than 1 million .mobi names registered. CNO have been around 15-20 years and .mobi just 3 years. One is an established product and the other a new product. There better be WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more CNO reported sales than .mobi sales, especially in the $x,xxx and above range. 100x as many. And with the fall in CNOP prices, the willingness of previous holdouts now willing/needing to sell names that had been off the market, and the bevy of potential buyers who have been eyeing those certain CNO domains for years - there should even more CNO sales.

It surely it paints a worse picture for balance sheets of CNO domainers who are taking HUGE ACTUAL LOSSES after years of paying 8x-12x (or what ever multiple you want to use) yearly PPC parking earnings for names during the 2000's. Paying multiples according to the "expert" domainer evaluation formulas of the day got them to this point.

It's not a pretty picture for the entire domain market. The domain correction is exacerbated by a recession in the general world economy. No one is glad to see so many entrepreneurs and small business people (CNO domainers or anyone else) incurring such losses. I'm only bringing it up to make my point - conventional thinking does not protect one from real losses.

It's a pretty time-proven theory - hardly meaningless. Most asset classes that fall during a huge recession and/or market correction do go up again. If Mark Twain was around during this discussion about .mobi he would have likely said, "The reports of .mobi's death are greatly exaggerated".

This NP mobi section seems to be an example of something being down (activity in the NP .mobi section) and then maybe going back up again. At least with this thread.

I must have missed seeing that disclaimer on the sales page description. ;-)
.

meegwell

Thanks REECE. It's tough to scan through all the meaningless "how much money lost" bickering to find a decent post. "designing useful mobile services" thats what its all about...mobile will always need unique design attention. On-the-go limited resources(bandwidth/screen size) need to be considered, as well as the fact that its in your pocket anywhere you are (gps integration).

meegwell

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dotcomisdead

I've been very busy 'offline' this week but this thread is still looking lively... some excellent posts on both sides of the fence.... Snoop made a claim that MJ was the only person who's making money on dotmobi! - I think it's important to clarify that MJ buys $100 domains at $10 & sells them for $20...... and does so day in, day out...

So technically he is making money (most of the time) but I think that MJ is operating a 'wholesale / warehouse' type of operation whereas most domainers don't just buy to flip for a few dollars.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

The truth is that most mobi domains remain unsold simply because they are not being openly offered for sale.... you can't value any 'market' based on thin trade trading figures, some stock prices have collapsed 90% + but a loss in not a loss until it is crystallised upon disposal.... most holders sit it out until the market comes back... often it does.... sometimes it doesn't..

So the stats being thrown around are pretty meaningless; you can tell any story you like using stats....

Let's say I paid $40 for a dotmobi in 2006 which was worth $1,000 in 2007 and is now worth around $50....
You could say that I have lost 95% on my investment since 2007....
You could also say that I have made 25% on my investment since 2006
You could also throw in renewal costs to show that I've lost money...
But what you can't demonstrate is the potential offered by that investment at maturity come 2011 onwards.. to me, it's like buying shares in a fledgling company; volatile prices, not guarantees... potentially huge rewards!

That same domain could be $50 or $5,000 in 2011+ .... we'll just have to wait & see

snoop

I said he is the only person I know of who has made money from it. I'm sure there are others, but not a lot.

---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

It is pretty obvious from reported sales that it is. As has already been stated dnjournal has one .mobi sale in their chart this year, that is down from half a dozen last year and 40+ the year before. The trend is fairly apparent. The relative position of .mobi is rapidly falling.

There is no debate about this, the entire market has crashed. My point is that .mobi has seen much larger losses. The .mobi market is tiny and much lower in dollar term but that doesn't change the fact that it has perfomed far worse than established extensions, to the point where the market hardly even exists any more. The fact is people generally would have done far better avoiding this extension. Essentially though this is an argument going nowhere because you are playing around with numbers trying to prove something that obviously is not correct.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

I wouldn't call it a "correction" in .mobi prices, a correction generally means a 10% fall not a 90%-100% fall. What we have seen with .mobi is the bursting of a bubble. Some thing take decades to come back or never do come back.

dotcomisdead

With the greatest respect Snoop, you do talk some rubbish sometimes... Thinking about the last 3 decades; i.e in todays society (say 1979 to 2009) what can you think of that 'went' & took 'decades to come back'

I'll grant you, the never came back list is very long... it's the way we live nowadays; everything from Betamax video to 8 track audio cassette, dial-up internet and a 1,000 things inbetween... but I really can't think of anything remotely related to technology / internet etc.. that has a time frame / cycle that is measured in years and not months..... and certainly not decades!

So!.... A correction IS a 10% fall is it?
You are funny, you accuse others of 'making things up as they go along' and then you make up something of your own! lol... In truth, a correction can quite feasibly be anything between 5% & 50%
A 'crash' can be anything from 20% to 90% - I've seen falls in some stocks called 'crashes' yet fall in single digit %'s!

That's the problem with emotive terms like these... they are almost meaningless because they are always used in context... without the context, they could mean anything at all.

As for DNJ...... Are you seriously going to tell me that only one dotmobi has sold at a newsworthy price this year?
Let's be quite frank about this.... just because sales can be reported to DNJ or anywhere else for that matter, it doesn't mean that sales are reported... there is absolutely no reason for any sale to be reported and it is very hard to track sales stats unless the buyer & seller are willing to volunteer that information.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359
I don't know what % of sales are reported to DNJ but I'd guess it's way less than half; put it this way; - according to your reliable source (DNJ) there have only been around 47 notable dotmobi sales since Sept 2006?).
I think not! lol

Toodle Pip

mo_dork

Exactly!

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------

I have purchased several .mobis this year for low $x,xxx (each)

snoop

Here are some examples,

The nasdaq stock index, peaked at 5048 points, 9 and a half years ago, 1752 today.

Tokyo property bubble, peaked in 1989, values then dropped 90-99%. 20 years later Tokyo land prices still haven't gone anywhere.

Nickel - Price peaked in 1969, 40 years on, prices are still lower than those levels after inflation.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Beanie babies - Peaked in late 90's, never came back.

"A decline in prices during a primary trend bull market is called a market correction. A correction is usually a decline of 10% to 20%"

Market trend - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

The fact is dnjournal has one .mobi name in its chart so far this year, compared to half a dozen last year and 40+ the year before, the reason for that decline is obvious, it is not because people have suddenly decided to stop reporting sales, it is because far fewer noteworthy sales are taking place, the market has slumped.

labrocca

Snoop...you always bring good sober arguments to any discussion. Unfortunately those drunk by mobi aren't going to get on the wagon and move on.

It will be interesting in two more years imho when I believe the valuation of mobi will be stable. I just love how NP is an archive of these mobi opinions and as time goes on we can review the past. I dare mobi fans to go back two years in this section and read some of the heated debates.

????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359
Most of your statements are about mobi's future which totally negate any current or past context.

Anything over $2k I believe you can and should report to DNJ. Mobi could use the exposure of high profile sales. I also wonder what was paid originally for these domains. Would you call it a success for mobi if the previous owner lost thousands? That's a likely scenario imho.

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scandiman

You were being so reasonable during our earlier discussion but now the group derision is slipping in again... do you think you can discuss .mobi enthusiasts without references such as these? I can assure you that my .mobi investments have nothing to do with inebriation.

You may be right about this, time will tell. What is special about a two year window from today that brings you to this conclusion?
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

I'm always looking to the future. If I judged my garden in the winter I wouldn't bother planting. But then I'd miss out on the harvest in the fall.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

If one owner looses money on a .mobi domain flip, it points to the success or failure of the domain owner, not the extension as a whole. Again, .mobi is being held to a different standard here, we all know domain prices across the board are down, yet you wouldn't make the same statements about CNO. As for DNF, I stopped publishing my purchases years ago after the flood of spam I get from domainers trying to sell their junk. I still get those damn e-mails years later.

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u8l2

what happened to the the reported sale at dnjournal on monday iou.mobi sold for 3k
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

ive sold 3 names for over 1k the past year ive never reported one single sale to dnjournal. why should i? because i never visit dnjournal doesnt mean the saes didint happen.

i earn 3.5k a month from my developed mobi. with a plan to develop a couple more high earning sites in the next month i expect to earn another 1.5k- 2k a month from.

im not posting screen shots anymore. if anyone cares to look at my previous posts you can find screen shots of some of my earnings, or you can download the mobi book that was published last year by javier. the book features my earnings from 2007.


cheers
Rob

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acc

Continued kudos for your smart and hard work. Efforts do pay off.
However, snoop does not believe that --development is domaining-- so he writes off any/all plans of domainers for using or holding their .mobi names for the future. A very limiting interpretation and viewpoint, IMO

WARNING: Some anti-mobi people can't generally seem to accept ANY explanations from pro-mobi posters - they summarily dismiss them as "excuses". So be ready for those responses to the following points. I'm just posting them here for other open minds to consider.

1. What has been stated in the quote above is a misstatement or misinterpretation of the facts at best. Maybe only one .mobi --reported-- sale at DNJ for >$10k is what he meant to say. Dot mobi sales > $1k (DNJ's reporting threshhold) are seen in individual weekly reports.

2. It has often been stated that in head to head comparison, that .mobi has roughly been valued at 1% of .com prices. (Note: some anti-mobi forces have argued the figure is less, some .mobi sellers argue it can be higher)

The year-to-date top 100 sales chart at DNJournal bottoms out at about $6,700. So for there to be a number of reported .mobi sales >$6.7k . . . . we should see --numerous-- reported com sales over $670k. Given the established market and perceived value for COM/NET/ORG we should be seeing many >$500k sales on that list. But we don't. Only a handful.

It is no surprise to have a lack of high value reported sales of .mobi names on that list. The market prices are down all around and buyers are tight fisted. NO ONE likes to see this. It is not good for ANY of our fellow domainers.

3. The timing of the number of high value .mobi sales reported in the past coincided with the offering of 100's of premium dotMobi registry-held names at a time at high profile auctions (i.e., SEDO, TRAFFIC auctions).

In 2007 and then in 2008 there were several 100 name lots of high quality keyword .mobi names auctioned off from the dotMobi registry's holdings. In 2009 - NO such large tranches of premium names have been released by the registry. And private holders of premium names are not letting theirs go in these GENERAL market conditions. Therefore no marquee sales to report. Not a surprise.

4. The widespread domainer portfolio pruning (seen in ALL extensions) and the effects of the first major .mobi extension "junk dump" of 2008/2009 has offered up many decent names for .mobi investors to acquire.

Unless one has very specific want/need for a name, spending on higher priced (privately held) names seem to have taken a back seat to niche building by .mobi domainers - in my observations. That is a temporary distraction and many are satiated at the moment.

>>Factoring ALL those variables into the equation (I know you can do it) it's obvious why we haven't been seeing many publicly reported sales of .mobi names with high price points. Your conclusion of a solid "trend" did not take into account several very important factors.

And, though it is an appreciated snapshot in time of only "reported" domain sales (above a certian dollar amount), the DNJournal list does not mean anything about what can or will happen in the future.


The fact is that is a very limited and biased .commer-only comment. You can't even acknowledge the profits or any potential possibilities envisioned by those who regged USABLE, KEYWORD and GOOD LLL.mobi domains. Domainers would be better off doing what in late 2006 ? - just buying one or two INFLATED priced mediocre .com names only to see them deflate along with the entire domain market. That's it, the only option? No room for entrepreneurial thinking? Dot-com-only. If it works for you fine. Great. But you shouldn't so quickly and easily dis other domainers' plans.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

We already talked about that hypothetical $10,000 investment earlier in this thread. One (1) $10k .com name vs. one hundred (100) $100 .mobi names. In any market what you can get for $10k makes more sense to get the .mobis - it provides 100 DIFFERENT opportunities for resale or development. Or even (1) $5k.com if you want your security blanket and the rest in .mobi.

You have NO skin in the .mobi game, NO.mobi horses on the track (as far as we know). And you openly dismiss development as a valid domainer activity or plan. You can't seem to grasp or just acknowledge a basic understanding of OTHER people's valid plans and goals for the .mobi part of their domain investments.

I gave you examples in an attempt to provide another way to look at things. A more realistic and --less fatalistic-- viewpoint. So only your numbers, %'s, and opinions are valid?

I am not playing around with these numbers - Millions of dollars are ACTUALLY LOST per month in dropped failed com/net/org regs. And there have been many publicly reported examples of $xx,xxx lost on individual CNO names - by experienced-seasoned-TRAFFIC-attending domainers. Those are BIG, REAL-CASH losses. And those are only the reported ones. Just like unreported sales, just think - how many other unreported losses are there by CNO-only domainers?

Money is ACTUALLY lost when you either drop or sell names at a loss. Not while you hold it. Same holds true whether it be a com/net/org/cctld/mobi/.anything. How can you continue to REFUSE to listen to the tough FACTS of the bigger picture - that VASTLY more COLD HARD CASH has been and is being LOST by domainers on com/net/org domains.

It is sad to see those losses. ALL domainers/entrepreneurs should be sad to observe such losses.

I doubt that many thinking people really buy your conclusion of the imminent demise of an entire extension based on an extrapolation of some twisted interpretation of temporary relative % figures. I'm stumped - why some need to dismiss an entire subset of domainers' plans.

I think your new signature should read .. " This poster is heavily biased."

Because, considering the millions of dropped names and reported huge losses on CNO domains, obviously there are MANY domainers for whom the com./net/org extension is not a panacea.

ALL domain extensions can bring losses. Many can provide opportunities, including .mobi. It all depends on the domain owners' visions, plans, and actions.

And ... Ooops, I see the name in the "mediocre" .net extension (your admission) for sale disappeared from you signature ... still and seriously ... best of luck with it. It's a nice name.

scandiman

Another example that .mobi is alive and well. Keep on trucking Rob, I wish you all the best!

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labrocca

It absolutely is not. Where do you get that idea from? I explained in clear precise detail the differences.

I am out. This thread isn't realistic anymore and some wild statements are being made. People are making things up as they go.

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mjnels

when snoop is talking about "people that made money with .mobi" he means just pure domaining... and even i haven't made very much like this.. yea there are a few others but you had to get in early.

you can make money developing sites on any TLD.. because what generates revenue is your hard work.. not the TLD itself really.

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noonoo1

On DNjournal this week

>>Dreamy_com
Bought: June 2006 - Snapnames - $43,250
Sold: 2009 Aftermarket - $9,000

Now thats a scary loss

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sdsinc

It is fair to assume that .mobi sales are reported to DNJ as much as other extensions isn't it ? Obviously many if not most sales go unreported but the share of .mobi in the sales reports has shrunken like Madoff stocks.
????: NamePros.com http://www.namepros.com/showthread.php?t=590359

Excuse me but I didn't notice my CNO portfolio has lost value. Actually end user sales are going strong, thank you.

Reported huge losses on CNO domains ? Where ? What ? When ?
You mean the anecdotal reports of domainers who sold a few CN at a loss because they bought them at inflated prices to begin with.
Think flower.mobi - now that's an overpriced purchase.

There has been a sharp price 'correction' for certain segments of the market like the crappy LLL.com but the CNO market has not crashed as a whole.
.mobi did. Bubble burst is the appropriate wording here

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scandiman

There's a flip side to that mj, the more people succeed developing .mobi, the more others want to join in. Success draws others in. If you can build value through development on one side of your portfolio, you may also add value on the speculative side as well. Parking and flipping isn't the only approach to domaining. Perhaps you can even leverage your own holdings to boost the performance of your developments with inbound links. If it uses domains and results in positive cash flow then I'd call it domaining.

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