The main reason why LLLL.net may not be a wise investment

accentnepal said:

3character.com gives a minimum price for the lowest quality LLL.net of $825. So , very roughly a tri-premium LLL.net would be 3 or 4 X that, $2500 - $3000 (Am I right here?).

So that would point to a target price of $100 for a decent quad premium LLLL.net. - Except that quad-premium LLLLs are a lower percentage of the whole than tri-premium LLLs - I don't want to do the math, but that would weigh in as a higher target value for quad-premium LLLL.nets - something like +60%.

Against all this is the fact that LLLL.coms did not make much of a move until they all were gone - then suddenly they started making up for lost time. A total LLLL.net buyout is years away at present internet growth rates.

Don't know what to think of this. I question that the growth of .net will keep up with the growth of com. I imagine there are better places to put money than LLLL.nets, but also there surely are worse places to put it. For myself I have enough in LLLL.coms that I need to diversify in other directions.

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since october 2007 lowest quality LLL.net gets 0 profit also premium LLL.net gets 0 profit , however as I always say this in namepros in oct 2007 regged 4 usd LLLL.com today sell it for 40 usd calculate profit

duceman said:

IMO this market is the same as real estate. Instead of 'location location location' its 'quality quality quality'.

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you are right about this but in domaining regarding small names with many potential end-users as they are acronyms, quality is the extension and dot com is #1

you can say a premium CVCV net is much better than a crappy LLLL com but this is true if you are talking about english as the "bad letters" are bad just here in the west; read what, for instance DotCN - a chinese -, wrote about bad and premium letters

LLLL.coms are still a better investment imho. If you head over to the Names Wanted section, you'll see that I'm interested in buying about 100k worth of quad premium LLLL.coms... I could've bought out all the quad premium .nets myself had I been interested in doing such... But I stuck with .coms and there's a good reason behind it:

1. Quad Premium LLLL.coms have a long history of being desired
2. Average Enduser prices on LLLL.coms are easily 10 times what they are on LLLL.net
3. Demand for LLLL.coms is far greater than demand for LLLL.nets, as evidenced by sales data.
4. It's not "the 10% rule" anymore, often it's "the 5% rule" from sales I've seen lately... .net is slipping or I guess you could say the value of a .com is appreciating.


One more interesting thing to mention:

** Even if under ideal circumstances "the 10% rule" applies here, what value do you place on a name that sells for 10% as much and finds endusers 10 times less often? To be honest, I think "the 10% rule" is a better indicator of how often .nets find endusers compared to .coms than anything else...

epasaport said:

since october 2007 lowest quality LLL.net gets 0 profit also premium LLL.net gets 0 profit , however as I always say this in namepros in oct 2007 regged 4 usd LLLL.com today sell it for 40 usd calculate profit

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italiandragon said:

Some people argue about letter quality, while endusers don`t know the difference between Premium and not Premium (this is another Domainer creation thing) , look at one LLL.com sale few months ago on another Forum : $100,000 for a LLL.com with a bad letter in it.

SO, the real problem is not Premium or not Premium letters, but how many chances there are that endusers will buy that domain. And by choosing .net , the chances are already minimal compared to .com

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lorenzo- a question- cuz this confused me.

would not the statement above go for LLLL.coms also? i mean, why are people investing so much in LLLL.coms? to save them? most have no type in traffic, so my guess is, to sell them in the future- correct? to endusers?
so, with this being said- and you comment here- then why have domainers themselves created the premium letter pricing, if in fact down the line, it doesnt matter to an enduser?

looking at the nambio recent .com sales, many of those LLLL.coms sold have "bad" letters. arent the high value of "premium" letter domains being pushed by domainers, and may not pan out in the end run?

you threw me for a loop with that comment

smashfactory said:

lorenzo- a question- cuz this confused me.

would not the statement above go for LLLL.coms also? i mean, why are people investing so much in LLLL.coms? to save them? most have no type in traffic, so my guess is, to sell them in the future- correct? to endusers?
so, with this being said- and you comment here- then why have domainers themselves created the premium letter pricing, if in fact down the line, it doesnt matter to an enduser?

looking at the nambio recent .com sales, many of those LLLL.coms sold have "bad" letters. arent the high value of "premium" letter domains being pushed by domainers, and may not pan out in the end run?

you threw me for a loop with that comment

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see, the whole Premium / not Premium letters thing created from the 3 chars site , is in my opinion very wrong.

It could have been good in the early days when 90 % of internet users were from Usa.
But now this game is totally changed and that chart of Premium/not Premium is in my opinion too old to be correct.

There are certainly some letters more used in acronyms but again we should compare all languages and cultures as Z is loved in Germany , V and U are very good in Italy , Q and X are Premium in China , and so on.

But I`m just 1 Italian in here. So my opinion count very very little.

I was receiving about 30,000 uniques monthly from my LLLL.com collection before I started selling it... They get plenty of traffic. Some of them were getting more than LLL.coms...

I don't see how anyone could question the values of quad premiums... They're an absolute steal at today's prices and mark my words, they'll be appreciating very steeply in price shortly.

smashfactory said:

lorenzo- a question- cuz this confused me.

would not the statement above go for LLLL.coms also? i mean, why are people investing so much in LLLL.coms? to save them? most have no type in traffic, so my guess is, to sell them in the future- correct? to endusers?
so, with this being said- and you comment here- then why have domainers themselves created the premium letter pricing, if in fact down the line, it doesnt matter to an enduser?

looking at the nambio recent .com sales, many of those LLLL.coms sold have "bad" letters. arent the high value of "premium" letter domains being pushed by domainers, and may not pan out in the end run?

you threw me for a loop with that comment

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yes but was that traffic domainers looking for names because they are "hot" right now? i dont think LLLL.coms would have gotten tht kind of traffic 2 years ago before all this- and it may not get that kind of traffic when this phase is over-

i am just wondering based on what lorenzo said if maybe domainers may have shot themselves in the foot, paying such high prices for them, but it may not bring the future cash from endusers.

the value of quad premiums is what it is because of domainers reece- down the line, it is the endusers you want- and if they dont see value like domainers have built up the value to be- then what? that is all i am asking-

Sales such as INFI, CONN, COBB, FOOM, FREO, IMAS, RICA, CMAS, AAAM -- each for $15,000+ are why quad premiums have value... Endusers are already here... Most estimates are that at most 10% of domain name sales are reported... Multiply the above list by 10 and you get an idea of the demand already out there for quad premiums -- 100+ endusers having already paid $15000+ for quad premium LLLL.coms.

My traffic has remained quite steady from August through now, so I don't think it's domainer traffic -- plus domainers wouldn't be clicking links

In the end, prices may very well be what they are because of domainers... At current LLL.com prices, I'd like to see anyone justify the enduser demand for every LLL.com... No doubt some names are overpriced... I'd take a name like my FAAA.com over QZJ.com anyday -- but that's just me.. I do think the market will wake up and see the same thing someday though...

Getting back to what I was discussing earlier about domainers -- domainers can add value and in the case of LLLL.coms, they very well do, as they do in the case of LLL.coms. Simply put, there are some domainers that want an LLLL.com or LLL.com simply "to have one". Some of them may very well have no intentions of ever reselling a particular name unless they get an out-of-this-world offer on it... In this case, they become endusers in their own right.

In my case, I collect triple letter LLLL.coms. Names like QQQS, LLLX, CCCY, FAAA are all proud members of my collection. I have no intention of reselling them unless I can get a very large profit on them...

Eventually over time more and more LLLL.coms will find their way into not only the hands of endusers, but also into the hands of people like me -- people with no intention to resell certain names but only keep them as collectibles. I might even develop some of them at some point which would make me a real enduser

smashfactory said:

yes but was that traffic domainers looking for names because they are "hot" right now? i dont think LLLL.coms would have gotten tht kind of traffic 2 years ago before all this- and it may not get that kind of traffic when this phase is over-

i am just wondering based on what lorenzo said if maybe domainers may have shot themselves in the foot, paying such high prices for them, but it may not bring the future cash from endusers.

the value of quad premiums is what it is because of domainers reece- down the line, it is the endusers you want- and if they dont see value like domainers have built up the value to be- then what? that is all i am asking-

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smashfactory said:

yes but was that traffic domainers looking for names because they are "hot" right now? i dont think LLLL.coms would have gotten tht kind of traffic 2 years ago before all this- and it may not get that kind of traffic when this phase is over-

i am just wondering based on what lorenzo said if maybe domainers may have shot themselves in the foot, paying such high prices for them, but it may not bring the future cash from endusers.

the value of quad premiums is what it is because of domainers reece- down the line, it is the endusers you want- and if they dont see value like domainers have built up the value to be- then what? that is all i am asking-

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I replied to your question....it just ended up being the last post of the past page.

smashfactory said:

yes but was that traffic domainers looking for names because they are "hot" right now? i dont think LLLL.coms would have gotten tht kind of traffic 2 years ago before all this- and it may not get that kind of traffic when this phase is over-

i am just wondering based on what lorenzo said if maybe domainers may have shot themselves in the foot, paying such high prices for them, but it may not bring the future cash from endusers.

the value of quad premiums is what it is because of domainers reece- down the line, it is the endusers you want- and if they dont see value like domainers have built up the value to be- then what? that is all i am asking-

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Over??? It`s not going to over...I don`t think so!


Compared to what they are paying now for premium letters and what these will cost in 3 years , I don`t think anyone has shot anything!

Reece said:

LLLL.coms are still a better investment imho. If you head over to the Names Wanted section, you'll see that I'm interested in buying about 100k worth of quad premium LLLL.coms... I could've bought out all the quad premium .nets myself had I been interested in doing such... But I stuck with .coms and there's a good reason behind it:

1. Quad Premium LLLL.coms have a long history of being desired
2. Average Enduser prices on LLLL.coms are easily 10 times what they are on LLLL.net
3. Demand for LLLL.coms is far greater than demand for LLLL.nets, as evidenced by sales data.
4. It's not "the 10% rule" anymore, often it's "the 5% rule" from sales I've seen lately... .net is slipping or I guess you could say the value of a .com is appreciating.


One more interesting thing to mention:

** Even if under ideal circumstances "the 10% rule" applies here, what value do you place on a name that sells for 10% as much and finds endusers 10 times less often? To be honest, I think "the 10% rule" is a better indicator of how often .nets find endusers compared to .coms than anything else...

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I know your topic in Names Wanted section , I wrote a comment on it but it was deleted , is it against the rule write a comment on a topic ? anyway it is not important it is deleted, I just wanted to say it is good investment you are in searcing quad premium LLLL.com

Look at the POWER of .com , new month, new little monster sale:

Sedo completed sale:

UNET.com just for $100,000


(that`s when the word NET becomes good......followed by a .com :sold: )

Good luck finding quad premiums, Reece. At affordable prices those little guys are a whole lot harder to find than most imagine.

italiandragon said:

Look at the POWER of .com , new month, new little monster sale:

Sedo completed sale:

UNET.com just for $100,000


(that`s when the word NET becomes good......followed by a .com :sold: )

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that name was owned by a member here. Great name, great sale.

italiandragon said:

Look at the POWER of .com , new month, new little monster sale:

Sedo completed sale:

UNET.com just for $100,000


(that`s when the word NET becomes good......followed by a .com :sold: )

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LOL

:sold:

accentnepal said:

Good luck finding quad premiums, Reece. At affordable prices those little guys are a whole lot harder to find than most imagine.

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who is the little guy :td:

The quad premiums are :hehe:

My favorite LLLL.coms -- triple letter quad premium specimens can't even be had for under $800 anymore :td: :td:

epasaport said:

who is the little guy :td:

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Reece said:

The quad premiums are :hehe:

My favorite LLLL.coms -- triple letter quad premium specimens can't even be had for under $800 anymore :td: :td:

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Yes , these are expensive they are big guys :hehe:

epasaport said:

Yes , these are expensive they are big guys :hehe:

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But so short???

That is $200 per letter!!

Somebody offered me a whole $100 for my triple.
He said he was going to develop it.
He could have gotten it if he added a couple 00's.
Poor little guy, not enough 00's.

Ok, i've read all the posts in this thread, both Reece and Lorenzo make valid points but here's a cheapies perspective.

Today a quad premium LLLL.com = $450. Following the LLL.com and LLL.net scenario, quad premium LLLL.net should be $45 each. Currently available for reg fee. Bad investment, I think not. I can't for the life of me see a 'loss making' scenario. Even with 2-3 yrs of reg fee in the fray.

Now this premium domain available scenario in LLLL.net is changing as you read. I first even considered these when LLLL.com prices went ballistic beginning of this year. There were 15k premium .nets available sometime after that. Cut to feb 3rd - there are now 2k or less. Thats actually less than 15 days.

Granted that LLLL.net might never sell out (though I guess they must have said the same about LLL.net) but at least the premiums present an entry level opportunity which no longer exists for LLLL.com

And there are a LOT of companies in technology and other related fields who'd prefer a premium LLLL.net to a 'bad' LLLL.com specially when the price difference between them will exist. This is my target market and who's to say $6x3 today won't be $1000 in 3 years.

I'm hedging my bets, gamblers, stock brokers and other financial field people will understand what I mean. When I first got the 15k list, I bought 10. Then I shortlisted 100, went to take 10 more, all 100 are gone So I found 33 more I like took them, shortlisted another 100. Went to take ten, ditto. So I found 10 I liked and registered those.

Fact 1.
Premium LLLL.net - 2k left, you can jump in now at reg fee or buy them from domainers who did... if they sell.

Fact 2.
Granted premium LLLL.com = min. $450 now, $1k by end of 2008, maybe even $2k by end 2009. At 10% I'd be willing to sell my premium LLLL.nets then.

Fact 3.
A new company, specially a tech oriented one, is more liable to pay $500 for a .net (Spot on smashfactory) than $5000 for the SAME .com, premium, not premium, notwithstanding.

So do I recommend you sell the house and buy these, NO. But do I recommend you buy enough to cover 2-3% of your portfolio as a long term hedge fund, absolutely.

Though, with the speed these are going this whole discussion will be a moot point in 2 weeks. Then we'll have the same discussion for non-premium LLLL.nets

italiandragon said:

Some people argue about letter quality, while endusers don`t know the difference between Premium and not Premium (this is another Domainer creation thing) , look at one LLL.com sale few months ago on another Forum : $100,000 for a LLL.com with a bad letter in it.

SO, the real problem is not Premium or not Premium letters, but how many chances there are that endusers will buy that domain. And by choosing .net , the chances are already minimal compared to .com

In my opinion , if a company is from outside the USA , they already generally prefer their ccTLD which represents better their identity, so .net would be not their second but third choice.

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This is exactly what I've been trying to say. The LLL.com market is so hot because there are plenty of end-users who would agree it's worth it to pay $x,xxx - $xx,xxx for a short name (for example IQG.com is better than InternationalQualityGroup.com - especially if that same company is well known for going as IQG). But when you enter the LLLL.com market, there are 26X more names and since you have so much more supply, the average LLLL price will not approach the value of the LLL.com market for many, many years - if ever.

The point is, as ItalianDragon pointed out and I've been trying to say - please read closely newbies - the LLLL.com and LLLL.net market is completely and artificially inflated by domainer demand not by actual end-users. Does that mean you can't make money? No - of course not - just like you can make money on a penny stock if you sell at the right time. But if you plan to hold these names for the long term, I think you'll find that your renewal fees will completely erase any potential profit. People keep making the argument that LLLL.com prices will just keep going up. Guys, there is not a market for anything on Earth that only goes up! A couple years ago LLL.us was the hot item, selling at around $100 min. Now you can pick them up for $40- $50.

Also, it should be noted that many seasoned domainers (including some of those who hyped LLLL.coms) are now liquidating their entire LLLL.com portfolios because they know that this is the time to sell. Sorry if I'm pissing in your pool guys but I really feel that the noobs here need to know what's going on. It's just like the 1999 stock market when the individual investor was piling into Yahoo stock at $400 per share - while the institutional investor was selling at those prices and laughing all the way to the bank. If you are making an "investment" in LLLL.com or .net right now, I would encourage you to consider it a "trade" not a "long-term hold".