GoDaddy Auctions -- Discussion, Acquisitions, and Sales

[Ms Domainer]

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I searched the forum and could not find a thread dedicated solely to Godaddy auctions, which seem to be heating up lately.

I envision this thread as a place for discussion regarding YOUR sales and acquisitions, and general discussion about the auction venue itself, and, perhaps, some domain oddities that are popping up on the auction site, for example, high-priced domains that should be regfee.



One caveat, though: for your own good, PLEASE do not reveal your auction win (or anyone else's, for that matter) until the domain has landed in your account because the original owner still has the option to renew it, and I know how vexing that can be. In other words, don't count your chickens until they're hatched.

On the other hand, if you're having second thoughts about your auction win, by all means tell us all about it.

I suppose that if an auction win is high profile, it's already out there, but, still...

Anyway, I'll start with three comments:

1. I won my first (and maybe last) intentional typo, and it's getting clicks (no $ so far, though): Forwx.com. I could not find a live TM on this term, but one never knows. I have mixed feelings about this one.

2. I accidentally clicked on a BIN that I didn't want (I wanted the one above it), but I decided to honor the bid anyway. Grrr..., so be careful before hitting the submit button. It's not in my account yet, so I can't really reveal it right now.

3. Currently, there's a weird .co domain at over $9,000, with three bidders duking it out. Again, I don't want to reveal what it is, but if you go to the most active auctions, it's number 1 (as of this posting).​

Mods, I hope this thread is okay.



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[Name Trader]

However, some cagey orginal registrants have figured out how to transfer expired domains to other registrars.

Did I call you cagey?

I don't think so.

This isn't about you, per se, but what is mandated by ICANN regarding expired names.

Yes you did call me cagey in the first quote above. I repeat there is nothing cagey at all about transferring domains that have expired to other registrars. At GoDaddy you can do this all from their control panel. Nothing cagey about it. It's mandated by ICANN the Registrar cannot deny a transfer just because the domain has expired. You don't need to figure out anything. You almost make it sound nefarious. I take great exception to you misleading people to think that GoDaddy by allowing expired domains to be transferred are actually contravening ICANN policy, when there are not. They are following ICANN policy.

 

[equity78]

Well this is certainly odd, without this story I am not sure this would have come out.

It is day 42 for deletion, the support pages are right. Go Daddy does not say anywhere, "If there is interest in the domain, we give the registrant to day 45" So without reading this story or this thread here, someone will be totally lost.

Thank you to everyone who contributed here and Hybrid Domainer.

 

[xman]

Is it possible to remove my proxy bid with GD auction?

I've been acquiring domains from different places and GD is one of them. I put a proxy bid in one of the domain but I feel like the domain isn't worth that much.

 

[Ms Domainer]

Yes you did call me cagey in the first quote above. I repeat there is nothing cagey at all about transferring domains that have expired to other registrars. At GoDaddy you can do this all from their control panel. Nothing cagey about it. It's mandated by ICANN the Registrar cannot deny a transfer just because the domain has expired. You don't need to figure out anything. You almost make it sound nefarious. I take great exception to you misleading people to think that GoDaddy by allowing expired domains to be transferred are actually contravening ICANN policy, when there are not. They are following ICANN policy.

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Well, I wasn't speaking of you specifically [removed--I just want to stick to the facts about renewal, whatever they turn out to be].

It's mandated by ICANN the Registrar cannot deny a transfer just because the domain has expired.

Show me in the actual ICANN agreement where this is mandated.

No one has done this yet, and I'm still waiting...

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[DN_Hunter]

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Show me in the actual ICANN agreement where this is mandated.

No one has done this yet, and I'm still waiting...

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Regarding TRANSFERS -- Section 3 Obligations of the Registrar of Record

Instances when the requested change of Registrar may not be denied include, but are not limited to:

Nonpayment for a pending or future registration period

and from the same section (this needs to be interpreted, but I think they are saying a registrar may not prevent the transfer due to non-payment of the FUTURE period, and they are also saying it's possible that a transfer request can come AFTER the current period expires)

The Registrar of Record has other mechanisms available to collect payment from the Registered Name Holder that are independent from the Transfer process. Hence, in the event of a dispute over payment, the Registrar of Record must not employ transfer processes as a mechanism to secure payment for services from a Registered Name Holder. Exceptions to this requirement are as follows:

(i) In the case of non-payment for previous registration period(s) if the transfer is requested after the expiration date, or
(ii) In the case of non-payment of the current registration period, if transfer is requested before the expiration date.

 

[Ms Domainer]

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Okay, here are the sections in the Agreement between ICANN and the Registrars that address expired domains along with my interpretations.

In the agreement, ICANN is stipulating that registrar MAY cancel a domain earlier than the auto-renew grace period as specified in the following section:

3.7.5 At the conclusion of the registration period, failure by or on behalf of the Registered Name Holder to consent that the registration be renewed within the time specified in a second notice or reminder shall, in the absence of extenuating circumstances, result in cancellation of the registration by the end of the auto-renew grace period (although Registrar may choose to cancel the name earlier).

Therefore, once a domain is canceled, it follows, then, all services to the domain could be turned off, including the ability to transfer the expired domain. Anyway, that's how I interpret this.

Thoughts? I'm thinking that this is the root of all the confusion.

It seems to me, then, abiding by the auto-renew period is a choice made by the registrar, not a mandate by ICANN.

There is a mandate for retaining the registration in extenuating circumstances:

3.7.5.1 Extenuating circumstances are defined as: UDRP action, valid court order, failure of a Registrar's renewal process (which does not include failure of a registrant to respond), the domain name is used by a nameserver that provides DNS service to third-parties (additional time may be required to migrate the records managed by the nameserver), the registrant is subject to bankruptcy proceedings, payment dispute (where a registrant claims to have paid for a renewal, or a discrepancy in the amount paid), billing dispute (where a registrant disputes the amount on a bill), domain name subject to litigation in a court of competent jurisdiction, or other circumstance as approved specifically by ICANN.

3.7.5.2 Where Registrar chooses, under extenuating circumstances, to renew a domain name without the explicit consent of the registrant, the registrar must maintain a record of the extenuating circumstances associated with renewing that specific domain name for inspection by ICANN consistent with clauses 3.4.2 and 3.4.3 of this registrar accreditation agreement.

I don't see anything about normal non-payment.

And here's where the language gets dicey:

3.7.5.3 In the absence of extenuating circumstances (as defined in Section 3.7.5.1 above), a domain name must be deleted within 45 days of either the registrar or the registrant terminating a registration agreement.

The above does not address when the registrar can cancel a domain, except that it must be within 45 days.

3.7.5.4 Registrar shall provide notice to each new registrant describing the details of their deletion and auto-renewal policy including the expected time at which a non-renewed domain name would be deleted relative to the domain's expiration date, or a date range not to exceed ten (10) days in length. If a registrar makes any material changes to its deletion policy during the period of the registration agreement, it must make at least the same effort to inform the registrant of the changes as it would to inform the registrant of other material changes to the registration agreement (as defined in clause 3.7.7 of the registrars accreditation agreement).

The above clause seems to suggest that the renewal period is up to the registrar, that the name could be deleted anytime within 45 days, should the registrar decide to do so.

Whatever the policy the registrar follows, it must be clear. Godaddy has failed here in that it says 42 days, but, in fact, the registrant has 45 days to reclaim.

3.7.5.5 If Registrar operates a website for domain name registration or renewal, details of Registrar's deletion and auto-renewal policies must be clearly displayed on the website.

3.7.5.6 If Registrar operates a website for domain registration or renewal, it should state, both at the time of registration and in a clear place on its website, any fee charged for the recovery of a domain name during the Redemption Grace Period.

There is a special case for expired names in UDRP:

3.7.5.7 In the event that a domain which is the subject of a UDRP dispute is deleted or expires during the course of the dispute, the complainant in the UDRP dispute will have the option to renew or restore the name under the same commercial terms as the registrant. If the complainant renews or restores the name, the name will be placed in Registrar HOLD and Registrar LOCK status, the WHOIS contact information for the registrant will be removed, and the WHOIS entry will indicate that the name is subject to dispute. If the complaint is terminated, or the UDRP dispute finds against the complainant, the name will be deleted within 45 days. The registrant retains the right under the existing redemption grace period provisions to recover the name at any time during the Redemption Grace Period, and retains the right to renew the name before it is deleted.

From:

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/raa/ra-agreement-21may09-en.htm​

 

[DN_Hunter]

All that is true -- but the answer to whether a registrar is mandated to perform the transfer comes from a combination of the two sections (and maybe other sections as well).

Since GD has stated their "grace period" (the 42 to 45 days is a topic in its own).

The point is that since they post their grace period of 42 days, then based on the TRANSFER section posted above they are mandated to allow you to perform the transfer during their elected grace period. Basically, if the registrar gives you X days grace period (not to exceed 45 days), then during the X days they are mandated to allow the transfer (except in the cases of Disputes and UDRP and all that).

So yes the registrar is not mandated to have a 42/45 day grace period. However, they are mandated to allow the transfer during their elected grace period. At least that's how I interpret all the legal jargon

 

[Ms Domainer]

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DN Hunter,

Where did you find those quotes from ICANN?

Section number?

I just can't find that info, and I want to make sure I'm on the right track before making any more assertions.



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[Kate]

It seems to me, then, abiding by the auto-renew period is a choice made by the registrar, not a mandate by ICANN.

Auto-renew (grace) period is a courtesy. If you don't pay the renewal in time the registrar can let the domain in redemption from day one.
But customers are sometimes late or miss the notices. Pulling a domain out of redemption is expensive.
So the registrars will generally let the domains auto-renew so as to offer their customers a grace period.

 

[DN_Hunter]

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DN Hunter,

Where did you find those quotes from ICANN?

Section number?

I just can't find that info, and I want to make sure I'm on the right track before making any more assertions.



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I started with the link you provided, and then started to drill down about Transfers. The link is here ===> Policy of Transfers of Registrations Between Registrars

 

[Name Trader]

I started with the link you provided, and then started to drill down about Transfers. The link is here ===> Policy of Transfers of Registrations Between Registrars

Thanks for the link DN Hunter. From that page

3. Obligations of the Registrar of Record.

Instances when the requested change of Registrar may not be denied include, but are not limited to:

Nonpayment for a pending or future registration period.

 

[Ms Domainer]

I started with the link you provided, and then started to drill down about Transfers. The link is here ===> Policy of Transfers of Registrations Between Registrars

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Thanks for the link! Rep on its way (if I can).

I just didn't page down far enough.

This looks like a June 2012 update.

But this is what can be confusing:

The Registrar of Record has other mechanisms available to collect payment from the Registered Name Holder that are independent from the Transfer process. Hence, in the event of a dispute over payment, the Registrar of Record must not employ transfer processes as a mechanism to secure payment for services from a Registered Name Holder.

I think this is saying that if there is a question about a payment pending to the registrar with which the registrant and registrar do not agree (hosting, another domain name, alleged misdirected payments), then the registrar cannot block a transfer, as long as the domain in question is not expired.

Exceptions to this requirement are as follows:

(i) In the case of non-payment for previous registration period(s) if the transfer is requested after the expiration date, or

(ii) In the case of non-payment of the current registration period, if transfer is requested before the expiration date.

The bold text seems to be saying that these instances are excluded and that the registrar CAN lock the domain and prevent its transfer.

(i) seems clear to me: if the domain is expired, the registrar may, at its own discretion, block the transfer (or not block it).

But, at first, I found (ii) a bit puzzling, but I have a theory here. Let's say that the domain has expired, so the registrar itself pays the registry the renewal fee (I have seen this quite often) and sends the domain to auction (and if the domain doesn't sell, the registrar gets a refund by day 45).

Technically, the domain is current, but the registrant still owes the registrar the renewal fee. So, in this case, the registrar would have the right to block a transfer. (I can see so much possible abuse here, regarding warehousing, blocking when the registrant has actually paid, etc, but that's another story).

But ICANN can't block a transfer for this instance:

Nonpayment for a pending or future registration period

I think what ICANN is saying here is that a registrar can't bar you from transferring a domain that has not yet expired but that a payment FROM THE REGISTRANT is due for the next year. In other words, a registrar can't anticipate your non-renewal by blocking your transfer because you still have full rights to the domain.

I do think the language is a bit confusing and could be clarified.

It looks as though each registrar is allowed to create its own renewal policy and MAY be able to block transfers for non-payment during the redemption period, but may NOT block transfers for any other instance (which is definitely a good thing!)

I also want you all to know that I actually agree with the grace period and that at least 30 days should be mandatory and standardized among all registrars.

A lot can happen in an owner's life, but I do think that expired domains should be locked down until the renewal fee is paid by the registrant.

I would suggest a 30-day grace period at reg fee renewal and a premium renewal at day 31 to day 45.

I also think that expired domains should be auctioned off later in the redemption cycle and awarded to the winner only when the former owner no longer has any rights (day 45).

In any case, Godaddy needs to let buyers and original registrants know (on their website) about that weird 3-day period when the buyer has control and then could lose it (day 42-45).

This dirty little secret definitely runs afoul of ICANN policy.

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[DN_Hunter]

The Registrar of Record has other mechanisms available to collect payment from the Registered Name Holder that are independent from the Transfer process. Hence, in the event of a dispute over payment, the Registrar of Record must not employ transfer processes as a mechanism to secure payment for services from a Registered Name Holder. Exceptions to this requirement are as follows:

(i) In the case of non-payment for previous registration period(s) if the transfer is requested after the expiration date, or

(ii) In the case of non-payment of the current registration period, if transfer is requested before the expiration date.

Attempting to use my secret ICANN Decoder Ring
NOTE (this is my interpretation, not saying it's 100% right, it is just how I interpret the words...)

The Registrar cannot use BLOCK TRANSFER as a means to collect payments from the registrant. They can use block transfer if:

i) the registrant requests a transfer after expiration date but still owes money from the previous registration period

ii) the registrant requests a transfer BEFORE expiration date but still owes money for the current registration period

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So if you do not owe any money for the previous registration period, they cannot block the transfer

 

[Ms Domainer]

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I like that secret decoder ring idea!

:lol: :great:

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[Name Trader]

So do you now agree that GoDaddy cannot block a transfer of an expired domain and that they are following ICANN policy up to day 42 (at least) and do you now admit there is nothing cagey about domainers transferring expired domains out of GoDaddy?

 

[Kate]

I also think that expired domains should be auctioned off later in the redemption cycle and awarded to the winner only when the former owner no longer has any rights (day 45).

Day 45 is too late, at that point the registrar must decide whether to maintain the domain or let it in redemption. No time to run an auction and secure payment.

And the former owner still has a preemptive right to renew as long as the domain is in redemption:

• minimum 30 days if the domain is sent to redemption from day one
• maximum 75 days if the domain is sent to redemption at the end of the (maximum) 45-day grace renew period.

That's the whole purpose of redemption.
After that, the 5-day pending-delete period begins, at that point the domain is no longer recoverable.

Therefore the registrars must decide the fate of the domain and get it rid of it before redemption. Pulling a domain out of redemption is expensive.
So they must 'deprive' the current holder of the redemption period normally granted to him/her. The tradeoff is that auctions may be reversed if the current holder decides to exercise his/her right to redeem the domain.

 

[DN_Hunter]

Day 45 is too late, at that point the registrar must decide whether to maintain the domain or let it in redemption. No time to run an auction and secure payment.

I don't believe that's what she is suggesting. I believe she is suggesting to run their normal auctions, but modify the day they actually move the domain to the account of the "Auction Winner" (in this case, day 45).

This will prevent the rare case that an auction is won, it is transferred to the auction winner on day 42, but before day 45 GD removes it from the winner and gives it back to the original registrant.

 

[Kate]

I don't believe that's what she is suggesting. I believe she is suggesting to run their normal auctions, but modify the day they actually move the domain to the account of the "Auction Winner" (in this case, day 45).

Okay.
But what's the purpose of this ?
Technically, the domain holder still has rights until the domain hits pending delete, that is at the end of the redemption period. Adjusting dates does not change the situation.

This will prevent the rare case that an auction is won, it is transferred to the auction winner on day 42, but before day 45 GD removes it from the winner and gives it back to the original registrant.

If the domain was bought at auction, then the domain is renewed for good anyway. The registrar could still claw back even later. I think one registrar (Enom) gives you a claim back period of 80 days, in the event the domain was auctioned off and not let in redemption.
The domain never expired with the registry, it's always been in good status. So the grace (auto-renew) period and redemption don't matter. The registrars could grant 90 days or even 6 months to redeem your domain.
As long as the renewal has been paid by somebody, they have nothing to lose.

Simply put, the registrars cannot auction expiring domains without bypassing the Icann redemption policy. As long as they are 'selling' and awarding domains in grace period they are gaming the system. But they get away with it because:

• they can :gl:
• they offer an equivalent period during which the holder can redeem the domain

And everybody is happy

 

[DN_Hunter]

Okay.
But what's the purpose of this ?
Technically, the domain holder still has rights until the domain hits pending delete, that is at the end of the redemption period. Adjusting dates does not change the situation.

WOW -- is that open-ended??? So any domain that is auctioned off and never hits pending delete, the original registrant can claim it back (even after 3 years???)

If the domain was bought at auction, then the domain is renewed for good anyway. The registrar could still claw back even later. I think one registrar (Enom) gives you a claim back period of 80 days, in the event the domain was auctioned off and not let in redemption.
The domain never expired with the registry, it's always been in good status. So the grace (auto-renew) period and redemption don't matter. The registrars could grant 90 days or even 6 months to redeem your domain.
As long as the renewal has been paid by somebody, they have nothing to lose.

According to the ICANN papers, the longest grace period allowed is 45 days.

ICANN also states that the REGISTRAR must provide the information regarding their "grace period" policy.


So from what I have read (this is my interpretation) :

-ICANN says the grace period can be up to 45 days
-during the grace period, the registrar cannot prevent the original holder from performing a transfer (unless the original holder still owes money for the prior registration period)
-ICANN mandates that each registrar provide '3.7.5.4 details of their deletion and auto-renewal policy including the expected time at which a non-renewed domain name would be deleted relative to the domain's expiration date'

-Godaddy defines their policy as:
"If you fail to renew your domain name in the timeframes indicated in this Agreement, you agree that Go Daddy may, in its sole discretion, renew your expired domain name on your behalf. If Go Daddy decides to renew your expired domain name on your behalf, you will have a Renewal Grace Period during which you may reimburse Go Daddy for the renewal and keep your domain name. The Renewal Grace Period is currently twelve (12) days but subject to change under the terms of this Agreement. For certain ccTLDs (.am, .at, .be, .cn, .com.cn, .net.cn, .org.cn, .de, .eu, .fm, .gs, .it, .jp, .ms, .nu, .nz, .co.nz, .net.nz, .org.nz, .tc, .tk, .tw, .com.tw, .org.tw, .idv.tw, .uk, and .vg) there is no Renewal Grace Period after the expiration date of the domain name. If you do not reimburse Go Daddy for the renewal during the Renewal Grace Period your domain name will be placed on Hold and flagged for deletion after which you will have a 30-day redemption period during which you may pay Go Daddy a Redemption fee and redeem your domain name. The Redemption fee is currently $80.00 USD and is subject to change under the terms of this Agreement. If you do not redeem your domain name prior to the end of the 30-day redemption period Go Daddy may, in its sole discretion, delete your domain name or transfer it to another registrant on your behalf. During the redemption period your domain name may be parked. "

 

[Kate]

WOW -- is that open-ended??? So any domain that is auctioned off and never hits pending delete, the original registrant can claim it back (even after 3 years???)

3 years sounds excessive lol, but it depends on the registrars. For example 80 days post due renewal date is possible. Remember, they set their own terms, that in fact contradict icann policy but that is hardly the point.

During the redemption period your domain name may be parked. "

Even Godaddy uses improper vocabulary. They mean grace period. A domain in redemption does not resolve.
No wonder even domainers are confused :p

To sum there are two scenarios:

• Domain gets at least one bid, it's awarded to winning bidder. Previous (current) holder still has an opportunity to claim back the domain (to make up for lack of redemption period).
• Domain gets no bid, it goes to redemption at the end of the grace period. Domain holder can still redeem the domain but at a high price ($80 -> $200+ depending on the registrar).

 

[Ms Domainer]

I don't believe that's what she is suggesting. I believe she is suggesting to run their normal auctions, but modify the day they actually move the domain to the account of the "Auction Winner" (in this case, day 45).

This will prevent the rare case that an auction is won, it is transferred to the auction winner on day 42, but before day 45 GD removes it from the winner and gives it back to the original registrant.

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Yes, that's what I meant.

I would suggest the following standard protocol for ALL registrars, and I would welcome other suggestions as well:

Days 1-30: Grace period; whether or not domain remains locked is still up to the original registrant. In other words, the domain can still be transferred out.

Days 28-37: Run auction (if the registrar or partners does this.) Note that this is 3-days later than the current start at Godaddy, which is day 25.

Days 28-45: Move domain into registrar lock/hold and institute premium renewal fee, not to exceed, say, $200.

Days 37-45: If a bidder wins the auction, the domain goes into a redemption week (which I refer to Hell Week, LOL). Meanwhile, the domain is LOCKED and cannot be transferred out by the original registrant, but it can still be redeemed.

Day 45: The domain is transferred to the winning bidder, and original registrant loses all rights to the domain.​

ADDED:

Days 46-70: IF the domain has NOT been awarded to an auction winner, the domain would go into a sleeper mode, BUT the original registrant could redeem the domain but at a premium price, not to exceed $200. (This would be unlikely, of course, but possible). The domain could NOT be redeemed by anyone else, including registrars themselves.

Days 71-76: Pending Delete Status. No one can redeem the domain.​

And equity78, could you ask Paul Nicks about what sdsinc has said about a registrar being able to reclaim a domain 80 days to 6 months after an auction?

Would Godaddy ever do this?

I think it's good if we can pin these registrars down and get this stuff out into the public eye.

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[Kate]

And equity78, could you ask Paul Nicks about what sdsinc has said about a registrar being able to reclaim a domain 80 days to 6 months after an auction?

Just to clarify, 6 months is an exaggeration, an example

In a normal setup up, the domain holder could have up to 45 days of grace period, then 30 days of redemption = possibly up to 75 days to recover his/her domain.

For example a domain at Enom will typically be put on auction 30+ days after expiry (non-renewal), an auction takes places, lasts for 3 days in case of multiple bidders, then the domain remains in auction lock for 6 weeks and cannot be moved in the meantime.
Do the math, we are at roughly 75 days.


Some registrars will even allow you to redeem the 'expired' domain at standard renewal rate. In a way they are actually doing the registrant a favor, because pulling the domain out of redemption would cost much more. If they want to get away with it, they have got to make gestures

 

[equity78]

What is funny even ICANN says on the page some registrar activity may not be reflected. They knew people would wonder how can they do what Kate has pointed out.

Kate what did you mean by: So they must 'deprive' the current holder of the redemption period normally granted to him/her. The tradeoff is that auctions may be reversed if the current holder decides to exercise his/her right to redeem the domain.

They are not depriving them right if they can renew or transfer after someone else wins the domain ?

 

[Kate]

If the registrars did abide by the intended rules - and in fact many of the smaller registrars do - then domains that are not renewed would be let in redemption, and the registrars would not run auctions in order to profit from expiring domains.

They let domains drop, period. But of course, they would be leaving money on the table. Auctions are more profitable than renewals. That is especially true for the bigger and older registrars.

In fact, I'm not saying the customer is losing out here, just saying that the intended redemption system is totally gamed by the registrars. That is not how it was supposed to work.

There are some ethical considerations as well, if you have nice domains the registrars (= custodians of your valuable online estate) have an incentive that you DO not renew them.

That would explain why some registrars apply additional penalty fees for late renewals even though the domain is still in grace period.

The problem is that money corrupts everything, and the registrars have smelled the money. Everything is fine as long as their interests and yours do coincide. But not all registrars are trustworthy and legitimate.

As a reminder: the auctions are mainly about gTLDs and certains ccTLDs. Most ccTLDs won't be auctioned upon expiry because the registrars cannot manipulate the full whois record (the registrant field), only the registry can and the changes must be initiated by the current holder.

We happen to buy quite a few 'prerelease' domains, so I'm not being judgmental, only explaining things: ie that Icann tolerates some bending of the rules.

 

[Ms Domainer]

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In an ideal world, the registrars would profit-share proceeds with the owner of the expired domain, an idea posed by Rob Hall (2007 ICANN Lisbon meeting):

http://archive.icann.org/en/meetings/lisbon/transcript-tutorial-expiring-25mar07.htm

I doubt if that will ever happen.

But the article is, nonetheless, fascinating reading.



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