Your domains if you snuff it

[Kingslayer]

Bit of a grim subject to talk about, but it happens, so you have to talk about it.

I'm sure there's been many drops where people have not given any information to their family (e-mail passwords/domain passwords etc), passed away and domains have been dropped, therefore loved-ones losing potential 5/6/7 figure$ domain assets.

In the last hour I've put together a list with all my information (should have done it long ago tbh) and put it in a vault somewhere should i get hit by a lorry tomorrow.

Anyone else here made similar plans, still got it to do/not even thought about it?

 

[deez007]

A good way to secure your assets, both physical and virtual is via a family trust. The domains can be added to the trust as well, along with plan of action to liquidate (with names and contact details of domainers/brokers that you know)

 

[Kate]

I did a list and discussed with those likely to handle it but they would in reality have no idea what to keep or drop, probably you need to rate them, otherwise they just reckon its all a waste of money.

I agree, flagging at least the most valuable domains like LLL.com would be a good thing. So your heirs know these names must not be allowed to drop.
Second, set the autorenew to on for these names. Add more than one funding source if possible. Warning: the credit card account will probably be frozen when you're reported dead... So it's best to renew the best names for several years ahead.

Possibly list the names of one or two domainers whom you trust, so they can advise on how to liquidate or take over the portfolio.

Additional option: incorporate, keep a good inventory, have proper accounting (can be outsourced to a CPA), track expenses and purchases. Makes it easier for an executor to liquidate the assets properly.
Make sure company shares are transferable.

 

[deez007]

It's not even about divulging it...it's about the trouble and headache of it. If you have your domains in a trust...what happens? Basically the lawyers have to try to get access to the domains by going through the registrar. I can only imagine what a headache that would be, trying to send them legal paperwork and explain to them the domains are part of the trust and they need a new username/password issued or the domains moved, etc. Wouldn't it be far easier on everyone, including your family, to just somehow provide them with the login info so they can get into the account and handle it from there without having to involve lawyers and the registrar.

Nope, simply providing them with the logins is all good and well.. they now have a virtual asset that they will be taxed on as soon as they liquefy the asset. So soon as the domain in sold then the tax man would be sitting their waiting to collect his cut. Having these domains sit in a holding company that has a bank account and is registered in a tax haven means that the domains can be sold and the family member has X amount of money sitting outside their country that no taxman knows about..

Plus the lawyers dont need to get involved with the domains at all... all they doing is ensuring the family member/members get full control of the holding company... then the family members will have instruction on how to liquify the domains and as well as who to contact.

 

[168]

Todaygold,
If your american you may have more to worry about than shell companies
for 2016, the estate and gift tax exemption is $5.45 million per individual, up from $5.43 million in 2015. That means an individual can leave $5.45 million to heirs and pay no federal estate or gift tax. A married couple will be able to shield $10.9 million from federal estate and gift taxes.
14 states also have inheritance tax on top. The rate varies.
deez007 is absolutely correct if you have assets that could be taxable above the limits then at the very least a Trust or a Trust that "owns" a corp or LLC is appropriate for domain holdings. Trusts/Corps/LLC's are subject to different tax rates as I'm sure you know
that could lower the effective tax on assets. This is why trusts/corps are used. Nothing illegal at all.
Domains held for a long time would be treated as capital assets regardless of how they are held. When it matters is when they are
sold and what tax rate the heir might be subject to based on their current income and state they live in. Any solid business person worth their salt would address the issue prior to death for the maximum benefit of the lowest tax rate on the assets to their heirs. There is nothing illegal about using every possible tax rule to minimize tax.
Another reason to do this now is - If a person gets sued for any reason if the domains are not "held" in a separate entity they are subject to attachment for any judgment that may be levied against them. If one has a portfolio of any size or value if one ends up in bankruptcy, again one would be forced to sell often at wholesale to make other creditors whole.
If they are in a trust or established corp. then the suit or bankruptcy can't touch them.
This is how Trump has retained 100's of millions in assets while going thru many bankruptcies.
It is also common practice for real property flippers and landlords to hold each property in it's own corp. to "shield" it from any potential liability from the other properties. The same goes for corporations. They own separate corps. for the same reasons.
Recent example : Google creating a "Holding" corp. abc.xyz
Please don't bother with a rebuttal. Regardless of what anyone posts on forums like this, each person has the responsibility to do their own research to know what is actually truth. And I would guess the only concern for you at this time would be State inheritance tax issues.
Cheers

 

[deez007]

Sounds like a bureaucratic headache. Much easier to just find a way to give the username/password/whatever to your next of kin and avoid all the legal mess.

It's relative to the amount of assets you own and their value. I have all my main assets in a trust, including 4 "nest egg" domains, that have never been listed on any marketplace EVER before. The attorneys handle the "legal mess", that's what they paid to do.

 

[deez007]

Okay. Now we are on the same page! Although I think that was the long way to get there. lol So all in all, regardless of whether the domains were in a trust or holding company or whatever, you are still simply providing the login info, in the same way you could do it if the domains were just individually owned.

No we are not on the same page....

We are talking about the BEST way to secure the asset and hand it over to next of kin to ensure they get maximum benefit.

Let say just as an example, these 4 domains I own...lets say they are worth $100k each .. thats$400k in total.

Now, ur method... after death email service... (if you die in a car accident and the next of kin who was supposed to get that email is in the car with you and also dies - there goes ur domains)

Then, as much as you would prefer to ignore the tax component... it simply can not be ignored... depending on which country you live in... that $400k is going to be taxed at around 30-40% so your next of kin is getting $120 000 - $ 160 000 LESS than what they should be getting, instead the government is getting your hard earned money because you decided to take the easy/convenient way out.

Now, with my method.. if I die in a car accident and the next of kin who is benefiting from my death is in the car with me and also dies then it would simply be transferred to the next person in line...the next, next of kin. (unless I have specifically stated otherwise and stipulated who should get it next)

And the government or taxman doesn't get $120k or $160k in taxes from me, instead it ALL goes to my next of kin

 

[deez007]

First, with most of the email services, you can specify recipients in an order...it's not just 1 recipient and that's it.
Second, the domains don't have to be involved in the trust or owned by some fake company...simply having this 'offshore company' and 'offshore bank accounts' would be sufficient...the domain info. can still be passed directly to them to make it easier.
Third, I'm not a lawyer, but it most countries, not paying taxes on income earned is a criminal offense. You do whatever you want, but if caught cheating on taxes owed, your next of kin could find themselves in a lot of trouble.

1.) Placing high-value assets in hands of a 3rd party email service company imo is borderline ludicrous
2.) You seem to have a problem reading and comprehending - I clearly stated, it is a LEGIT company and REAL business with REAL bank accounts it's just that it is registered in a Tax Haven. Perfectly LEGAL business practice. A trust account has plenty of benefits, which is why they are popular amongst successful businessmen/women. I'm not going to go into the details, we are in the information age so you can educate yourself on the merits of a trust account instead of making assumptions that it's too much of a legal bother and not worth the effort.
3.)Yet again you have failed to read and comprehend, NOTHING I have suggested is illegal nor is it cheating taxes in any way. It's common practice amongst businessmen/women. There is a difference between tax evasion and creative tax practices. Again, don't speculate, educate yourself.

 

[deez007]

First, there are things called 'backups'. If your domains are so valuable, you can use two email companies. You are just throwing out wild assumptions...the likelihood of some random girlfriend getting the email, understanding the importance of without ever being told, finding the piece of paper and then running off into the wild is probably less likely then being struck by lightning.
Second, I thrive on assumptions? As you sit hear and yell at me, making plenty of assumptions yourself that the OP and everyone else can do this. In fact, you even alluded that what you are doing is wrong by stating in one of your posts 'hypothetically speaking of course' with a smiley face. Maybe you do live in some less established country where this is legal, but in many countries, it is not.

So you are saying that these tax havens exist for people who belong to less established countries only?

Furthermore, I didn't want to point it out earlier cos it was not relevant at the time but now you seem to be stuck in a loop in your thinking caused from assumptions, yet again! So I will point it out to you now...

You have still not realized that there is a difference between personal income tax and business tax and a difference between business law and personal law. Based on your assumptions all Americans who make use of these tax havens are doing to so illegally, right? Or could it be possible, just maybe that these businessmen might, just have a better understanding of the tax laws OR they might hire business lawyers who have a better understanding of the tax laws than you do... or is it more likely that you have fully grasped the tax law from reading a few lines of text on the IRS website?

 

[deez007]

Many established countries have laws either severely limiting or completely eliminating their use...as they should. Tax havens are only used by those with money who can afford lawyers to handle it...their only purpose is so those with money can skip paying their fair share of taxes, while those with less means have no choice but to contribute to their country.



Seeing as how many wealthy people, celebrities and politicians have been in the news lately after being arrested for hiding off-shore accounts and hiding their assets in other countries to skirt paying their taxes...I would say even they obviously don't understand the law...If the lawyers of wealthy individuals can't even get it right, I highly doubt the lawyer a typical middle-class citizen can afford can get it right.

Your understanding of the system is based on the severity of your "programming" if you are going to make arguments about the taxes being used to provide essential services and then further go on to say that those with less means will be taxed more, shows me that you actually have no idea how a tax system works....

Here is the tax system explained simply:
https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-tax-system-explained-in-beer/

The people you are talking about that have been getting "caught" yes are high-profile folks who have been practicing tax evasion... who ALSO happened to have offshore accounts in tax havens... These people you talking about that have been caught, was only a drop in the ocean..probably like 1% of the amount of money thats actually sitting in tax havens....

Let me also reiterate, you are still not seeing the difference between personal income tax and business tax.

Again, there is a difference between tax evasion and creative tax practices.

 

[deez007]

I did not say that those with less means pay more in taxes...however, someone with $1 billion, who essentially cheats the system to avoid paying their fair share of taxes is not looked upon too kindly by middle and low class income earners, aka the 'working poor' who pay their fair share of taxes, proportionate to how much they make.
Second, just because they have only caught a small percentage of tax cheats does not mean the other 99% are doing things legally.
Third, you probably don't understand the difference either. Even if it is business, if you are the sole 'shareholder' of this fake 'corporation', you are getting a distribution from the company as an individual and in most countries, would need to pay taxes on it.

I have a solid understanding of tax laws. It is NOT a fake corporation for the umpteenth time, see what I mean when I say you are unable to read and comprehend!!! It is a legitimate company, that is operational. Whilst the company resides in a tax haven, I as an individual draw an income (salary/profit share) from the company... guess what that is? That is called my personal income... guess what happens to that money? it gets taxed!!!
Thats called personal income tax..., we live in the information age, there is no excuse for ignorance!

Again, there is a difference between tax evasion and creative tax practices.

 

[deez007]

Please, please, whatever you do, don't stop!
You have no idea how much I'm enjoying this "discussion" you two are having here
(having gone my own few rounds with @todaygold in another thread)

Bwhahahah it seems many folks here have been going a few rounds with him... probably has some low self-esteem issues.... lol. Maybe he needs a hug?

 

[HotKey]

Bit of a grim subject to talk about, but it happens, so you have to talk about it.
Anyone else here made similar plans, still got it to do/not even thought about it?

Death, taxes, and domain expiry, you just can't avoid. So you sure as heck better have something in place, similar to a will. For me, the domain's control go to a loved one. The plans I made include instructions on whom to contact here on NP for guidance, if needed.

 

[carob]

You drop, they drop.

Unless you make plans, like you say.

I did a list and discussed with those likely to handle it but they would in reality have no idea what to keep or drop, probably you need to rate them, otherwise they just reckon its all a waste of money.

It also gets complicated where you have changed passwords or 2FA - the executor may need time to get legal access to an account, meantime the domains drop - another good reason to renew the best for several years.

I thought domainguardians.com dealt with stuff like this but can't see it on their site.

 

[deez007]

On a side note:

Hmmm... so now, if we check the obituaries daily for a particular country and had some sorta software to tie that up with WHOIS records then we could find some gems that could potentially expire and mark the dates on our calendars or if they really good drop catch them...

 

[deez007]

I'm not saying a trust is a bad idea for things the government obviously knows exists, like your house. But for domains, essentially a virtual asset that the government doesn't register and has no idea you own...it's far more of a headache than it's worth. Why deal with all that and try to give legal notice to the registrar and all that, when you can simply leave your family the username/password/etc. and they can go in afterwards and handle it from there.

A cleverly set up trust does not have to divulge everything. For instance, hypothetically speaking off course - included in the trust could be full control of a Holding company registered in a tax haven which happens to own the nest egg domains.

 

[todaygold]

Again, it's not a complicated process. The domains are registered under the holding company... the holding company owns the domain names. The family members/member gets full control of the holding company. They have full access to the bank accounts, domain account log in details and everything.

So basically you are saying that the usernames/passwords are setup with the trust and will be given to the next of kin, correct?

You also said "I'm not saying a trust is a bad idea for things the government obviously knows exists, like your house. But for domains, essentially a virtual asset that the government doesn't register and has no idea you own." - Why are you talking about keeping the asset out of government knowledge, if you are now saying you are not referring to taxes?

You are looking at it the wrong way. I am saying, domains are not like a house. I can't just 'give someone' my house without telling the government about it, because the records need to be updated...therefore, this is fine to include in a trust. On the other hand, domains are digital assets, therefore I can simply give someone my domain name without involving anyone else or the government...therefore, there is no need to include this in a trust. I'm not talking in terms of taxes, I'm talking in terms of making it easiest on the next of kin.

 

[deez007]

So basically you are saying that the usernames/passwords are setup with the trust and will be given to the next of kin, correct?



You are looking at it the wrong way. I am saying, domains are not like a house. I can't just 'give someone' my house without telling the government about it, because the records need to be updated...therefore, this is fine to include in a trust. On the other hand, domains are digital assets, therefore I can simply give someone my domain name without involving anyone else or the government...therefore, there is no need to include this in a trust. I'm not talking in terms of taxes, I'm talking in terms of making it easiest on the next of kin.

Hmm I'm not sure how to explain this any simpler.... the domain names are not setup with the trust. A HOLDING company is setup in a place like The Canary Island, a real company with bank accounts and everything. The domains belong to that company, it is registered in the companies name. THEN as part of the trust along with all your other assets (properties, vehicles etc..) full control of the company that was setup in The Canary Islands is also included as part of the assets in the trust (instructions are included as to what to do with the domains belonging to the company just as you would if you were giving the next of Kin usernames and passwords)

 

[deez007]

Okay, fine, the domains are registered to the company and next of kin gets control of the company...but again, how do they actually access the domains at that point? Simply owning a company doesn't automatically give you access to the domains without doing a lot of legwork and submitting papers unless you have the login info. So you are providing the username/password logins then as well, correct?

Yes, as mentioned earlier..they would have full control of the company which includes banking accounts as well as domain account usernames and passwords

 

[todaygold]

Yes, as mentioned earlier..they would have full control of the company which includes banking accounts as well as domain account usernames and passwords

Okay. Now we are on the same page! Although I think that was the long way to get there. lol So all in all, regardless of whether the domains were in a trust or holding company or whatever, you are still simply providing the login info, in the same way you could do it if the domains were just individually owned.

 

[deez007]

You sound like the ignorant one. You admitted it is a holding company...aka a shell company...do a little research on shell companies and tax fraud.
And you pretty much just admitted that you will be required to pay taxes, as I had said earlier.

Holly Cow!!!

So a HOLDING company is a shell company? really? .... strange that, in my ignorance, I some-how thought that holding company generally means it's exactly that... a holding company that owns a few other smaller companies... according to you it's a shell company.., lol, "do a little research" u tell me? ...hahahah

Then you ranting on about me admitting to being required to pay taxes... dude!! go back to high school and ask your head master to please refund you all your school fees.. cos clearly you don't know how to read and comprehend... The business PROFITS are not taxable... but the salary or profits that are drawn by the individual is taxable.. again, for the 100th time... there is a difference between business tax and personal income tax..., I live in a country that is not a tax haven so I am liable for personal income tax on ALL my income.. the business is in a tax haven... it does not reside in my country... the country where the business resides in is a tax haven so it is not liable to be taxed. Or have you not figured out that that there is a difference between business profit and owners salary /profit share?

Its late, im going to sleep...wasted to much time on this thread already

 

[deez007]

I am glad I could teach you something. Feel free to do some research and you will see that a holding company is generally considered a shell company by most. Heck, even wikipedia discusses holding companies in it's shell company article.
What exactly is your point? As the sole owner of the company, you are going to, at some point, take all of its profit for yourself, which you will be taxed on.

Hhahaah listen, you clearly have no clue how a real business operates and have no experience or knowledge on the matter. Worse off if you quoting WIKIPEDIA as a reliable source of information.

Let me drop some education on you seeing as you so dearly need it. Go to this wonderful resource called Google, maybe you heard of it? .. head of over there and do a simple search for "HOLDINGS" take note of all the actual companies that are up and running and not shelf companies that are holding companies. Educate yourself stop speculating based on ur limited knowledge of things.

"What exactly is your point? As the sole owner of the company, you are going to, at some point, take all of its profit for yourself, which you will be taxed on"

Are you serious? Are you really that naive or are you actually trolling this thread?

No, I have no intention at any point to take all the profit for myself.. I'm not going to sit here and explain my business plans to you but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that whilst you can draw a good salary from the business, you can also use remaining profits to diversify your income and investments... do you think all companies simply pay out ALL their profits every year to their shareholders?? be it 1 or 100 shareholders?? If you actually think that's how it works then boy oh boy...you have a lot of learning to do

 

[WatchDogue]

A good way to secure your assets, both physical and virtual is via a family trust. The domains can be added to the trust as well, along with plan of action to liquidate (with names and contact details of domainers/brokers that you know)

In a few months we plan to further discuss / establish a Trust with a Trust / Tax attorney with whom we are currently working with on another matter.

Our tentative plan is to have our domain names included as potential " gifts " to specific heirs which gives us more flexibility in adding / removing same from the Trust, subject to further legal advice.

Previously discussed how we will handle valuation of names and passwords etc in a " will " type post.

Overall consider the topic of domains and heirs a vital topic for serious domain folks.

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Hhahaah listen, you clearly have no clue how a real business operates and have no experience or knowledge on the matter. Worse off if you quoting WIKIPEDIA as a reliable source of information.

Let me drop some education on you seeing as you so dearly need it. Go to this wonderful resource called Google, maybe you heard of it? .. head of over there and do a simple search for "HOLDINGS" take note of all the actual companies that are up and running and not shelf companies that are holding companies. Educate yourself stop speculating based on ur limited knowledge of things.

"What exactly is your point? As the sole owner of the company, you are going to, at some point, take all of its profit for yourself, which you will be taxed on"

Are you serious? Are you really that naive or are you actually trolling this thread?

No, I have no intention at any point to take all the profit for myself.. I'm not going to sit here and explain my business plans to you but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that whilst you can draw a good salary from the business, you can also use remaining profits to diversify your income and investments... do you think all companies simply pay out ALL their profits every year to their shareholders?? be it 1 or 100 shareholders?? If you actually think that's how it works then boy oh boy...you have a lot of learning to do

Please, please, whatever you do, don't stop!
You have no idea how much I'm enjoying this "discussion" you two are having here
(having gone my own few rounds with @todaygold in another thread )

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Bwhahahah it seems many folks here have been going a few rounds with him... probably has some low self-esteem issues.... lol. Maybe he needs a hug?

@Eric Lyon: can we have a Hug button, in addition to the Like and Thanks buttons, please?