Name.com

Your domains if you snuff it

Discussion in 'General Domain Discussion' started by KingslayerVR, Feb 17, 2017.

Replies:
73
Views:
2,378

  1. KingslayerVR

    KingslayerVR Active Member VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2015
    Posts:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    2,720
    Bit of a grim subject to talk about, but it happens, so you have to talk about it.

    I'm sure there's been many drops where people have not given any information to their family (e-mail passwords/domain passwords etc), passed away and domains have been dropped, therefore loved-ones losing potential 5/6/7 figure$ domain assets.

    In the last hour I've put together a list with all my information (should have done it long ago tbh) and put it in a vault somewhere should i get hit by a lorry tomorrow.

    Anyone else here made similar plans, still got it to do/not even thought about it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. carob

    carob Active Member VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Posts:
    2,438
    Likes Received:
    2,619
    You drop, they drop.

    Unless you make plans, like you say.

    I did a list and discussed with those likely to handle it but they would in reality have no idea what to keep or drop, probably you need to rate them, otherwise they just reckon its all a waste of money.

    It also gets complicated where you have changed passwords or 2FA - the executor may need time to get legal access to an account, meantime the domains drop - another good reason to renew the best for several years.

    I thought domainguardians.com dealt with stuff like this but can't see it on their site.
     
  3. Kate

    Kate Thinking inside the Box™ VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Posts:
    17,795
    Likes Received:
    13,968
    I agree, flagging at least the most valuable domains like LLL.com would be a good thing. So your heirs know these names must not be allowed to drop.
    Second, set the autorenew to on for these names. Add more than one funding source if possible. Warning: the credit card account will probably be frozen when you're reported dead... :) So it's best to renew the best names for several years ahead.

    Possibly list the names of one or two domainers whom you trust, so they can advise on how to liquidate or take over the portfolio.

    Additional option: incorporate, keep a good inventory, have proper accounting (can be outsourced to a CPA), track expenses and purchases. Makes it easier for an executor to liquidate the assets properly.
    Make sure company shares are transferable.
     
  4. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    This topic was brought up a few months ago on here. One of the best pieces of advice from that conversation, in my opinion, is to utilize one of those 'after death' email services...where they send an email to whoever you choose after you die. In the email you can then include the passwords, directions on what to do, etc. (Although I would leave the usernames and emails on a written piece of paper...that way they are split, the paper is useless without the email and the email is useless without the paper...so you don't have to worry about any problems before you die).
     
  5. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    A good way to secure your assets, both physical and virtual is via a family trust. The domains can be added to the trust as well, along with plan of action to liquidate (with names and contact details of domainers/brokers that you know)
     
  6. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    Sounds like a bureaucratic headache. Much easier to just find a way to give the username/password/whatever to your next of kin and avoid all the legal mess.
     
  7. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    On a side note:

    Hmmm... so now, if we check the obituaries daily for a particular country and had some sorta software to tie that up with WHOIS records then we could find some gems that could potentially expire and mark the dates on our calendars or if they really good drop catch them...
     
  8. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    It's relative to the amount of assets you own and their value. I have all my main assets in a trust, including 4 "nest egg" domains, that have never been listed on any marketplace EVER before. The attorneys handle the "legal mess", that's what they paid to do.
     
  9. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    I'm not saying a trust is a bad idea for things the government obviously knows exists, like your house. But for domains, essentially a virtual asset that the government doesn't register and has no idea you own...it's far more of a headache than it's worth. Why deal with all that and try to give legal notice to the registrar and all that, when you can simply leave your family the username/password/etc. and they can go in afterwards and handle it from there.
     
  10. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    A cleverly set up trust does not have to divulge everything. For instance, hypothetically speaking off course :xf.wink:- included in the trust could be full control of a Holding company registered in a tax haven which happens to own the nest egg domains.
     
  11. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    It's not even about divulging it...it's about the trouble and headache of it. If you have your domains in a trust...what happens? Basically the lawyers have to try to get access to the domains by going through the registrar. I can only imagine what a headache that would be, trying to send them legal paperwork and explain to them the domains are part of the trust and they need a new username/password issued or the domains moved, etc. Wouldn't it be far easier on everyone, including your family, to just somehow provide them with the login info so they can get into the account and handle it from there without having to involve lawyers and the registrar.
     
  12. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    Nope, simply providing them with the logins is all good and well.. they now have a virtual asset that they will be taxed on as soon as they liquefy the asset. So soon as the domain in sold then the tax man would be sitting their waiting to collect his cut. Having these domains sit in a holding company that has a bank account and is registered in a tax haven means that the domains can be sold and the family member has X amount of money sitting outside their country that no taxman knows about..

    Plus the lawyers dont need to get involved with the domains at all... all they doing is ensuring the family member/members get full control of the holding company... then the family members will have instruction on how to liquify the domains and as well as who to contact.
     
  13. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    Again, I'm not really referring to taxes. Can you explain to me HOW your next of kin get control of the domains? How do they get an account with the domains in them if something happens to you?
     
  14. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    Again, it's not a complicated process. The domains are registered under the holding company... the holding company owns the domain names. The family members/member gets full control of the holding company. They have full access to the bank accounts, domain account log in details and everything.

    You also said "I'm not saying a trust is a bad idea for things the government obviously knows exists, like your house. But for domains, essentially a virtual asset that the government doesn't register and has no idea you own." - Why are you talking about keeping the asset out of government knowledge, if you are now saying you are not referring to taxes?
     
  15. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    So basically you are saying that the usernames/passwords are setup with the trust and will be given to the next of kin, correct?

    You are looking at it the wrong way. I am saying, domains are not like a house. I can't just 'give someone' my house without telling the government about it, because the records need to be updated...therefore, this is fine to include in a trust. On the other hand, domains are digital assets, therefore I can simply give someone my domain name without involving anyone else or the government...therefore, there is no need to include this in a trust. I'm not talking in terms of taxes, I'm talking in terms of making it easiest on the next of kin.
     
  16. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    Hmm I'm not sure how to explain this any simpler.... the domain names are not setup with the trust. A HOLDING company is setup in a place like The Canary Island, a real company with bank accounts and everything. The domains belong to that company, it is registered in the companies name. THEN as part of the trust along with all your other assets (properties, vehicles etc..) full control of the company that was setup in The Canary Islands is also included as part of the assets in the trust (instructions are included as to what to do with the domains belonging to the company just as you would if you were giving the next of Kin usernames and passwords)
     
  17. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    Okay, fine, the domains are registered to the company and next of kin gets control of the company...but again, how do they actually access the domains at that point? Simply owning a company doesn't automatically give you access to the domains without doing a lot of legwork and submitting papers unless you have the login info. So you are providing the username/password logins then as well, correct?
     
  18. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    Yes, as mentioned earlier..they would have full control of the company which includes banking accounts as well as domain account usernames and passwords
     
  19. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    Okay. Now we are on the same page! Although I think that was the long way to get there. lol So all in all, regardless of whether the domains were in a trust or holding company or whatever, you are still simply providing the login info, in the same way you could do it if the domains were just individually owned.
     
  20. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    No we are not on the same page....

    We are talking about the BEST way to secure the asset and hand it over to next of kin to ensure they get maximum benefit.

    Let say just as an example, these 4 domains I own...lets say they are worth $100k each .. thats$400k in total.

    Now, ur method... after death email service... (if you die in a car accident and the next of kin who was supposed to get that email is in the car with you and also dies - there goes ur domains)

    Then, as much as you would prefer to ignore the tax component... it simply can not be ignored... depending on which country you live in... that $400k is going to be taxed at around 30-40% so your next of kin is getting $120 000 - $ 160 000 LESS than what they should be getting, instead the government is getting your hard earned money because you decided to take the easy/convenient way out.

    Now, with my method.. if I die in a car accident and the next of kin who is benefiting from my death is in the car with me and also dies then it would simply be transferred to the next person in line...the next, next of kin. (unless I have specifically stated otherwise and stipulated who should get it next)

    And the government or taxman doesn't get $120k or $160k in taxes from me, instead it ALL goes to my next of kin
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  21. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    First, with most of the email services, you can specify recipients in an order...it's not just 1 recipient and that's it.
    Second, the domains don't have to be involved in the trust or owned by some fake company...simply having this 'offshore company' and 'offshore bank accounts' would be sufficient...the domain info. can still be passed directly to them to make it easier.
    Third, I'm not a lawyer, but it most countries, not paying taxes on income earned is a criminal offense. You do whatever you want, but if caught cheating on taxes owed, your next of kin could find themselves in a lot of trouble.
     
  22. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    1.) Placing high-value assets in hands of a 3rd party email service company imo is borderline ludicrous
    2.) You seem to have a problem reading and comprehending - I clearly stated, it is a LEGIT company and REAL business with REAL bank accounts it's just that it is registered in a Tax Haven. Perfectly LEGAL business practice. A trust account has plenty of benefits, which is why they are popular amongst successful businessmen/women. I'm not going to go into the details, we are in the information age so you can educate yourself on the merits of a trust account instead of making assumptions that it's too much of a legal bother and not worth the effort.
    3.)Yet again you have failed to read and comprehend, NOTHING I have suggested is illegal nor is it cheating taxes in any way. It's common practice amongst businessmen/women. There is a difference between tax evasion and creative tax practices. Again, don't speculate, educate yourself.
     
  23. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    First, you aren't placing the assets in their hands. As I stated in my first post in this thread...you would put the passwords in the email...and leave the usernames/registrar info on actual paper for your next of kin. Therefore the paper is useless without the email and the email is useless without the paper.
    Second, you seem to be the uneducated one, if you are a U.S. citizen, you still have to pay taxes on it. Directly from the IRS website are the following statements for U.S. citizens: "Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside." and "Federal law requires U.S. citizens and resident aliens to report any worldwide income, including income from foreign trusts and foreign bank and securities accounts"
     
  24. deez007

    deez007 Emancipate Yourself From Mental Slavery VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Posts:
    5,689
    Likes Received:
    10,880
    What happens if the email company closes down? What happens the person that supposed to get the email no longer has access to that email account? What happens if the person's boyfriend/girlfriend or anyone who has access to their email gets the password that was emailed to the person?, then all they would need next is to find the piece of paper

    So you assume I am a US Citizen and then quote US income tax Laws to me? Seems you thrive on assumptions, speculation and ignorance. Unless you are unaware that there are another a 195 or so countries that exist as well?

    The scenario I painted to you in this thread has been done in collaboration with my attorney, who has been practicing business law all of his working life and is in his late 50's now. His brother who also works at his practice previously worked in a senior management role at the revenue services. So bottom line, everything I have stated is PERFECTLY LEGAL and simply creative tax practices and not at all tax evasion...
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  25. todaygold

    todaygold Established Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Posts:
    972
    Likes Received:
    640
    First, there are things called 'backups'. If your domains are so valuable, you can use two email companies. You are just throwing out wild assumptions...the likelihood of some random girlfriend getting the email, understanding the importance of without ever being told, finding the piece of paper and then running off into the wild is probably less likely then being struck by lightning.
    Second, I thrive on assumptions? As you sit hear and yell at me, making plenty of assumptions yourself that the OP and everyone else can do this. In fact, you even alluded that what you are doing is wrong by stating in one of your posts 'hypothetically speaking of course' with a smiley face. Maybe you do live in some less established country where this is legal, but in many countries, it is not.
     

Want to reply or ask your own question?

It only takes a minute to sign up – and it's free!

Share This Page

Loading...