analysis World War III

[oldtimer]

I believe that President Biden was right when he said that Russia is going to Invade Ukraine.

Any intelligent person is going to come to the same conclusion knowing that Russia has already decided to pay any price imposed on it by the West through sanctions.

Short of full military confrontation by the West there is nothing that can make Russia to change its mind as they see this as a golden opportunity to resurrect the once powerful superpower that was equal to the USA.

But Russia’s ambitions are not going to stop with taking over Ukraine since it already has made plans to increase its sphere of influence to Asia, Middle East, and South America and perhaps the whole World knowing that the West is most likely not going to do anything beyond just imposing sanctions which ultimately will hurt the West itself by effecting the Global economy in an adverse way the longer that they go on.

I personally don’t like any of the old ideologies, philosophies, and doctrines of Capitalism, Communism, Socialism, Religious Fundamentalism and all the other “ism” that are derived from the bad human characteristics of Greed, Lust, Hate, Cruelty, Jealousy, Prejudice, and lack of Empathy and that have been infringing on our rights in one way or another throughout the history because they can only exist through supporting inequality, oppression, suppression, torture, killing, and War.

When it comes to saving the World the last thing that I want to see is the further expansion of these old systems that have all already proven to be a failure in dealing with the existential problems that are currently facing Humanity and the Environment.

We don’t want all these political, Religious, and Racial parties and groups to resurrect their past, we want something new that can propel the World into the next Era that is based on the Universal Principles and Values that have been derived through Logic and Compassion and not through Force and Violence.

By “We” I mean all the Intelligent, Righteous, and Peace loving people of the World.

IMO

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[Cannuck]

People will continue to be misled by bad information. The solution to this, though, is obviously not censorship. Then you have one person deciding the truth for you - Big Brother. The best we can do is to allow information and try to educate people to critically digest information and step outside their base emotions. The latter is difficult - something religions and philosophies have struggled with for centuries. We are all ruled by our emotions to one degree or another. But at least we can try to make people aware of it.

Not all people will be misled and not all information is bad. It's sad how the Russian soldiers were misled.

Demoralized Russian troops reportedly shoot themselves in legs to avoid fighting​

"Russian officers shoot themselves in the legs to go home. There are corpses everywhere."

Another said troops are "looking for Ukrainian ammunition in order to shoot themselves in the legs and go to hospital".

It is thought harsh punishments will be dished out to soldiers who desert the field when they return to Russia.

It comes after furious soldiers warned they will rise up against Vladimir Putin.

His troops branded one particular airstrike on a maternity hospital "the most perverse f***ing form of neo-Nazism".

And soldiers have since warned their warmongering leader he "won't hide this for long", adding "we all will be judged".

"Children are dying for nothing. Putin is a liar.

"I want to go home, I don’t want to be here, I am ashamed, forgive me," one soldier told a packed press conference.

The men said they were nothing but cannon fodder for Russian generals who were sending inexperienced, conscripted troops to their early deaths.

Similar claims are made by all dictators who censor or block information. The whole point of freedom of speech is that rulers don't choose which speech is free. Free speech is the bedrock of democracy - take that away and you take away democracy. That said, it is often taken away during wartime. But it often isn't returned afterwards.

Zelenskyy's response,

Any activity of politicians aimed at splitting or collaborating will not succeed. But it will get a tough response.

That is why the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine decided… Given the full-scale war waged by the Russian Federation and the ties of some political structures with this state, any activity of a number of political parties during the martial law is suspended. Namely: "Opposition Platform - For Life", "Shariy Party", "Nashi", "Opposition Bloc", "Left Opposition", "Union of Left Forces", "State", "Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine", "Socialist Party of Ukraine”, “Socialists” Party, “Volodymyr Saldo Bloc”.

The Ministry of Justice is instructed to immediately take comprehensive measures to ban the activities of these political parties in the prescribed manner.

Everyone must now take care of the interests of our state, the interests of Ukraine.

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/new...tosovuye-teroru-proti-ukrayini-girshi-n-73685

 

[Kingslayer]

Of course. But propaganda is used by all sides.

Propaganda by the Russian side is just crap though, for example they will post a screenshot of a tweet by some unknown western reporter that they may have tweeted by mistake and deleted of some fire fighters 3 years ago in Ukraine thinking it was a recent picture, they will jump all over that as a reason why press are lying what happening in Ukraine, this screenshot will be used on Russian news and everything.

I posted something today in this thread and realised afterwards I got the dates wrong and edited my post, it happens!

Also pictures and footage and deaths don’t lie, destruction/carnage and humanitarian crisis (mass migration) as result of Russian aggression in Ukraine is there for all to see, so that’s not propaganda, they don’t show footage of all that in Russia though, unless its staged footage such as Russians handing out food, so Russians need to ask themselves, ‘well why can’t we see?’ ‘why can’t we even speak out’? You can’t see or have a voice and you will be banished if you do go against it because your nation is in the wrong and leaders know it, but are still doing it anyway.

 

[wwwulff]

Mariupol: Ukraine rejects Russian offer to surrender port city​

Ukraine has rejected a Russian ultimatum offering people in the besieged city of Mariupol safe passage out of the port if they surrender.
Under Russia's proposal, civilians would be allowed to leave if the city's defenders laid down arms.
But Ukraine has refused, saying there was no question of it surrendering the strategic port city.
Around 300,000 people are believed to be trapped there with supplies running out and aid blocked from entering.
Residents have endured weeks of Russian bombardment with no power or running water.
Details of the Russian proposal were laid out on Sunday by Gen Mikhail Mizintsev, who said Ukraine had until 05:00 Moscow time (02:00 GMT) on Monday morning to accept its terms.

Under the plans, Russian troops would have opened safe corridors out of Mariupol from 10:00 Moscow time (07:00 GMT), initially for Ukrainian troops and "foreign mercenaries" to disarm and leave the city.
After two hours, Russian forces say they would then have allowed humanitarian convoys with food, medicine and other supplies to enter the city safely, once the de-mining of the roads was complete.
Russian Gen Mizintsev admitted that a terrible humanitarian catastrophe was unfolding there - and said the offer would have allowed civilians to flee safely to either the east or west.
In response to the offer, Ukraine's Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk said Ukraine would not stop defending Mariupol.
"There can be no question of any surrender, laying down of arms," she was quoted by Ukrainska Pravda as saying.

I fear what happens next

 

[oldtimer]

Mariupol: Ukraine rejects Russian offer to surrender port city​

I am not sure if Ukraine made the right decision here by refusing this offer knowing that Russia is most likely going to intensify its attacks on Mariupol in the coming days.

Perhaps Russia can extend that offer for couple of more days and let the Ukrainians think about the inevitable doom that the City is going to face by refusing to accept this offer.

I am just trying to be realistic here based on the current conditions in the City.

IMO

 

[bmugford]

I am not sure if Ukraine made the right decision here by refusing this offer knowing that Russia is most likely going to intensify its attacks on Mariupol in the coming days.

Perhaps Russia can extend that offer for couple of more days and let the Ukrainians think about the inevitable doom that the City is going to face by refusing to accept this offer.

I am just trying to be realistic here based on the current conditions in the City.

IMO

They made the right decision.

First of all nothing Russia says about humanitarian corridors can be trusted see Aleppo, Grozny, etc.
Any agreement is worth less than toilet paper as it is unlikely they would honor it like in the past.

Second of all, what are they going to do start genocide of the citizens?

They are already targeting civilians now. They are holding the civilians hostage.

Any escalation is fully on Russia.

Their war crimes are being broadcast for the entire world to see. They will pay for it.
The nation will carry the shame of these actions for generations.

Brad

 

[oldtimer]

They made the right decision.

First of all nothing Russia says about humanitarian corridors can be trusted see Aleppo, Grozny, etc.
Any agreement is worth less than toilet paper as it is unlikely they would honor it like in the past.

Second of all, what are they going to do start genocide of the citizens?

They are already targeting civilians now. They are holding the civilians hostage.

Any escalation is fully on Russia.

Their war crimes are being broadcast for the entire world to see. They will pay for it.
The nation will carry the shame of these actions for generations.

Brad

People in Mariupol have already run out of food and water, so refusing this offer is just going to prolong their suffering.

IMO

 

[bmugford]

People in Mariupol have already run out of food and water, so refusing this offer is just going to prolong their suffering.

IMO

I have a counter offer... Russia can leave, surrender all their junky equipment to be recycled, pay to rebuild the country, and face war crime charges at The Hague.

Ukraine is not going to accept being occupied.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

People in Mariupol have already run out of food and water, so refusing this offer is just going to prolong their suffering.

IMO

If that happens it is 100% on Russia. No one else is responsible.

Again, an agreement is worthless. In the past they pulled the same BS and attacked and murdered people leaving. No one believes them, for good reason.

Brad

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Their war crimes are being broadcast for the entire world to see. They will pay for it.
The nation will carry the shame of these actions for generations.

Brad

Is there any chance that those documented war crimes will lead to economic reparations for each and every building destroyed by Russia. Imagine the feelings of those Russian citizens, seeing one of their missles destroying one of those large Ukrainian buildings --- then getting a subtitle on their TV or computer screen stating that they will be paying in the future for the construction of the new replacement structures.
Could a war crimes tribunal decision force the Russia to pay for the extensive reconstruction?

 

[wwwulff]

I am not sure if Ukraine made the right decision here

I agree with Brad - I do not trust Russia in any way and hope that the Ukrainians will fight on, even if it will cost more lives. The most important thing is to get the civilians out first - I live in Europe and if the Russians attacked us, then I would hope that we would fight to the last man, rather that, than live under Putin's regime

 

[bmugford]

Is there any chance that those documented war crimes will lead to economic reparations for each and every building destroyed by Russia. Imagine the feelings of those Russian citizens, seeing one of their missles destroying one of those large Ukrainian buildings --- then getting a subtitle on their TV or computer screen stating that they will be paying in the future for the construction of the new replacement structures.
Could a war crimes tribunal decision force the Russia to pay for the extensive reconstruction?

Similar to how WW2 ended, they should be forced to repay to rebuild the country. You can't bring the lives back unfortunately, but you can rebuild the country.

Russia will probably be in such a sad economic depression though, that the rest of the world will have to pay.

Brad

 

[koolishman]

Hobson's Choice. Destruction.

 

[oldtimer]

I have a counter offer... Russia can leave, surrender all their junky equipment to be recycled, pay to rebuild the country, and face war crime charges at The Hague.

Ukraine is not going to accept being occupied.

Brad

It's easy for you (or the West) to say that not being directly affected by what's going on in Mariupol,

But shouldn't saving the inhabitants of the City be the top priority here considering the realities on the ground.

IMO

 

[bmugford]

It's easy for you (or the West) to say that not being directly affected by what's going on in Mariupol,

But shouldn't saving the inhabitants of the City be the top priority here considering the realities on the ground.

IMO

Do you think living under Russian military control is any better? No.

Basically if they give the city up by surrender or by fighting on, the outcome is the same. The Russian military (and terrorists and mercenaries they have recruited) will continue to carry out the war crimes.

You think they are going to magically let people leave and bring food and other supplies in to help the civilians?

Russia does not give a shit. Their leadership literally believes the country does not have a right to exist and the population is full of Nazis.

In the past Russia made these agreements then even stepped up the attacks more.

It is a false choice.

Brad

 

[LoveCatchyDomains]

Russia likely will still have a robust oil production after the war. They cannot bring back the lives lost, but they hopefully will be able to pay serious reparations for property and even to the families of those killed--even if it takes decades.

 

[bmugford]

It's easy for you (or the West) to say that not being directly affected by what's going on in Mariupol,

But shouldn't saving the inhabitants of the City be the top priority here considering the realities on the ground.

IMO

So, let's say in theory an agreement is reached and Russia still continued to not let supplies in, attack civilians, etc...then what?

Because that is exactly what is going to happen. Russia has done this multiple times in the past.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Russia likely will still have a robust oil production after the war. They cannot bring back the lives lost, but they hopefully will be able to pay serious reparations for property and even to the families of those killed--even if it takes decades.

I think Russia is going to have a really hard time finding trade partners after this ends, especially in the west. If the proceeds went to rebuild Ukraine that is a different story.

Brad

 

[oldtimer]

So, let's say in theory an agreement is reached and Russia still continued to not let supplies in, attack civilians, etc...then what?

Because that is exactly what is going to happen. Russia has done this multiple times in the past.

Brad

It's a chance worth taking considering the alternative which is to stay in the City and starve to death.

IMO

 

[bmugford]

It's a chance worth taking considering the alternative which is to stay in the City and starve to death.

IMO

You can't surrender a city if the people are not willing to stop fighting.

This is not a serious offer by Russia. They would find a way to keep attacking civilians, like they have done in the past several times.

How well do you think it would have worked out for cities that surrendered to Hitler voluntarily? Spoiler alert, not well.

Brad

 

[oldtimer]

You can't surrender a city if the people are not willing to stop fighting.

This is not a serious offer by Russia. They would find a way to keep attacking civilians, like they have done in the past several times.

How well do you think it would have worked out for cities that surrendered to Hitler voluntarily? Spoiler alert, not well.

Brad

The thing is that it's not the elderly and those with children that are given a choice to make a decision about this, the decision is being made for them by those outside of the City.

All those who were able body have already left what's left in the City now are just the most vulnerable ones.

Has anyone actually asked them if they want to leave or not or are they just trapped in there against their will.

IMO