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question Why is everyone told to just create brandable .com's

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Jason Baudendistel

CEO Wibbets IncRestricted (Market)
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This feels like trying to win the lottery? Why not go find keyword domains that are missed or undervalued in other extensions? Obviously the keyword matters and it needs to be taken in multiple extensions but a 500 dollar flip now feels more realistic than maybe someone 10 years from now will pay me 2,000 for something I made up. Thoughts?
 
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This is an interesting strategy. Have you had success with selling domains and trademarks together for much more than the domain alone would sell?
Stay tuned. ;)
 
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This is an interesting strategy. Have you had success with selling domains and trademarks together for much more than the domain alone would sell?
jmcc said this, "A "brandable" from a business point of view is something in which it is worth investing time, money and effort but can be protected with a trademark or service mark."

Joe, I've had success starting, naming and trademarking many businesses's since 1970. If I sound confident this strategy will work, it's because of my past success. As I've said before, rarely do I register or buy a domain that I don't think I can develop into a successful enterprise. I just left talking with a young man working at my golf club who I told when I get home I'll register the domain "Cadabra Golf" for him/us to jointly develop when he finishes his last year in college (next year).....he's majoring in "Sports Management". When I shared with him the story of Amazon trading as Cadabra prior to it becoming Amazon, he like me thought it was really cool:xf.cool:

Since I've actually made two hole in one's this year and this young fella personally knows about them (written up in the newspaper), i told him to be thinking how we can use this info for CadabraGolf(.)com....note, i haven't bought it as of this post, but I intend to. I haven't decided to trademark™ it yet either, but I'll let you know if I do. Finally, i wouldn't recommend this for someone with little or no business experience, but if you think you own a good "brandable" name, you may want to get some professional advice.
 
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jmcc said this, "A "brandable" from a business point of view is something in which it is worth investing time, money and effort but can be protected with a trademark or service mark."

Joe, I've had success starting, naming and trademarking many businesses's since 1970. If I sound confident this strategy will work, it's because of my past success. As I've said before, rarely do I register or buy a domain that I don't think I can develop into a successful enterprise. I just left talking with a young man working at my golf club who I told when I get home I'll register the domain "Cadabra Golf" for him/us to jointly develop when he finishes his last year in college (next year).....he's majoring in "Sports Management". When I shared with him the story of Amazon trading as Cadabra prior to it becoming Amazon, he like me thought it was really cool:xf.cool:

Since I've actually made two hole in one's this year and this young fella personally knows about them (written up in the newspaper), i told him to be thinking how we can use this info for CadabraGolf(.)com....note, i haven't bought it as of this post, but I intend to. I haven't decided to trademark™ it yet either, but I'll let you know if I do. Finally, i wouldn't recommend this for someone with little or no business experience, but if you think you own a good "brandable" name, you may want to get some professional advice.

Nothing mentioned really has anything to do with Joe's question.

So the TLDR version is a simple "no" then?

Brad
 
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jmcc said this, "A "brandable" from a business point of view is something in which it is worth investing time, money and effort but can be protected with a trademark or service mark."

Joe, I've had success starting, naming and trademarking many businesses's since 1970. If I sound confident this strategy will work, it's because of my past success. As I've said before, rarely do I register or buy a domain that I don't think I can develop into a successful enterprise. I just left talking with a young man working at my golf club who I told when I get home I'll register the domain "Cadabra Golf" for him/us to jointly develop when he finishes his last year in college (next year).....he's majoring in "Sports Management". When I shared with him the story of Amazon trading as Cadabra prior to it becoming Amazon, he like me thought it was really cool:xf.cool:

Since I've actually made two hole in one's this year and this young fella personally knows about them (written up in the newspaper), i told him to be thinking how we can use this info for CadabraGolf(.)com....note, i haven't bought it as of this post, but I intend to. I haven't decided to trademark™ it yet either, but I'll let you know if I do. Finally, i wouldn't recommend this for someone with little or no business experience, but if you think you own a good "brandable" name, you may want to get some professional advice.
Cool story; thanks Rich. I hope Cadabra Golf works out well for you guys.

I think we got side-tracked from my original question, though. Have you had success selling domains and trademarks together for more than a buyer would pay for the domain alone? I'm not very savvy in these matters, so I could really benefit from hearing about your experiences specific to this strategy.
 
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Nothing mentioned really has anything to do with Joe's question.

So the TLDR version is a simple "no" then?

Brad
Don't put words in my mouth Brad. My limited research shows that you haven't trademarked, registered or service marked DataCube™, but it's my professional opinion that you do so immediately.

I wish I could share more of my success involving the naming and trademarking of businesses here on NamePros, but if you or Joe would like some help, I'll do my best to accommodate you:xf.smile:
 
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Don't put words in my mouth Brad. My limited research shows that you haven't trademarked, registered or service marked DataCube™, but it's my professional opinion that you do so immediately.

I wish I could share more of my success involving the naming and trademarking of businesses here on NamePros, but if you or Joe would like some help, I'll do my best to accommodate you:xf.smile:
I'd love some help, Rich! If I pick a name from my portfolio, would you be able to take us through the trademarking process and explain how I should go about marketing and (hopefully) selling them as a package?
 
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I'd love some help, Rich! If I pick a name from my portfolio, would you be able to take us through the trademarking process and explain how I should go about marketing and (hopefully) selling them as a package?
I'd love to help you, and maybe we can kill two birds with one stone here. Since you and Brad are so interested in my strategy and the processing of trademarking why don't we use the name DataCube.com Why did i choose this name? For the same reason I might choose any other name that I believe would be a good name to trademark™. Personally I like the name, especially because it's a natural fit for the tech industry.

So my first step would be to go to the USPTO website to determine if it's trademarked for the purpose I might like to use it for. In this case this is what you will find;

1. Omega DataCube - Live
2. Omega DataCube - Live
3. DataCube - Live
4. ISO DataCube - Live
5. ISO DataCube - Live
6. DataCube - Live
7. DataCube - Live

Here you'll notice there are three "Live" trademarks or DataCube™ for three entirely different services. Note that none them are for the business of "Buying and Selling Premium Domains", so if Brad cared to trademark DataCube™ it appears that he could.

Of course Brad could hire a lawyer like our friend John Berryhill to trademark DataCube™. It's my guess the fee for most reputable lawyers to do this would be from $2,000 to $3,000. However, to DIY the cost will be from $300 to $500....at least this is what what I've paid most recently.

Please note the process can take from 6 - 9 months, but I believe it adds considerable value. Gotta run Joe....i play in a Tuesday night golf league that starts at 5:00, but I'll circle back to you sometime tomorrow. Fore!
 
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I'd love to help you, and maybe we can kill two birds with one stone here. Since you and Brad are so interested in my strategy and the processing of trademarking why don't we use the name DataCube.com Why did i choose this name? For the same reason I might choose any other name that I believe would be a good name to trademark™. Personally I like the name, especially because it's a natural fit for the tech industry.

So my first step would be to go to the USPTO website to determine if it's trademarked for the purpose I might like to use it for. In this case this is what you will find;

1. Omega DataCube - Live
2. Omega DataCube - Live
3. DataCube - Live
4. ISO DataCube - Live
5. ISO DataCube - Live
6. DataCube - Live
7. DataCube - Live

Here you'll notice there are three "Live" trademarks or DataCube™ for three entirely different services. Note that none them are for the business of "Buying and Selling Premium Domains", so if Brad cared to trademark DataCube™ it appears that he could.

Of course Brad could hire a lawyer like our friend John Berryhill to trademark DataCube™. It's my guess the fee for most reputable lawyers to do this would be from $2,000 to $3,000. However, to DIY the cost will be from $300 to $500....at least this is what what I've paid most recently.

Please note the process can take from 6 - 9 months, but I believe it adds considerable value. Gotta run Joe....i play in a Tuesday night golf league that starts at 5:00, but I'll circle back to you sometime tomorrow. Fore!
Thanks Rich! That's all very interesting information. The USPTO site looks like a great resource for conducting trademark searches.

https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=4809:oj9dk6.1.1

What if we're planning to sell a domain name that isn't already being used to host a thriving business? I don't run businesses on any of the domain names in my portfolio. Would I still benefit from trademarking all of my brandable names before trying to sell them?
 
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Thanks Rich! That's all very interesting information. The USPTO site looks like a great resource for conducting trademark searches.

What if we're planning to sell a domain name that isn't already being used to host a thriving business? I don't run businesses on any of the domain names in my portfolio. Would I still benefit from trademarking all of my brandable names before trying to sell them?
The USPTO site is probably one of my best tools for even deciding whether on not to purchase a domain. For instance, if it appears that a name I'm looking to buy may have some issues I'll stay clear. However, with DataCube™ i believe it can be trademarked for the purpose of buying selling domains.

Moving on....the answer to your question about whether or not you should TM all your brandable names before trying to sell them is a big fat NO! Take BrandSail™ for example, while I might consider it a brandable name, I wouldn't trademark it "unless" I owned it and ran my business as BrandSail. Why?...because it simply adds value to the name and my credibility.

Finally, without a plan to outbound market your name, or at least have someone do it for you, I wouldn't consider it......piss'n in the wind is not my swag :xf.wink:

ps. thanks for posting that USPTO link since my membership won't allow me to post links:xf.cry:
 
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The USPTO site is probably one of my best tools for even deciding whether on not to purchase a domain. For instance, if it appears that a name I'm looking to buy may have some issues I'll stay clear. However, with DataCube™ i believe it can be trademarked for the purpose of buying selling domains.

Moving on....the answer to your question about whether or not you should TM all your brandable names before trying to sell them is a big fat NO! Take BrandSail™ for example, while I might consider it a brandable name, I wouldn't trademark it "unless" I owned it and ran my business as BrandSail. Why?...because it simply adds value to the name and my credibility.

Finally, without a plan to outbound market your name, or at least have someone do it for you, I wouldn't consider it......piss'n in the wind is not my swag :xf.wink:

ps. thanks for posting that USPTO link since my membership won't allow me to post links:xf.cry:
So your recommendation is to only trademark a name that you're using (or planning to use) for an active business. Thanks for the clarification; that makes a lot of sense.

Using the examples of DamRiver and CatchRiver that you mentioned, would your plan be to develop businesses that operate on those domains, trademark the names, and then attempt to market/sell the entire business to potential buyers?
 
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So your recommendation is to only trademark a name that you're using (or planning to use) for an active business. Thanks for the clarification; that makes a lot of sense.

Using the examples of DamRiver and CatchRiver that you mentioned, would your plan be to develop businesses that operate on those domains, trademark the names, and then attempt to market/sell the entire business to potential buyers?
Yes, i'd recommend to only TM those domains that you either plan to use yourself, or those domains that we can build a simple business model around, and we're able to showcase them to specific industries they're intended for like, healthcare, financial services and tech.

As for DamRiver and CatchRiver, i plan to TM only CatchRiver™ because the name itself is Catchy:xf.wink:, and several people I personally know and respect could easily see it being used for an outdoor clothing brand. Not to mention there are thousands of potential buyers for it.
 
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"Sometimes people get lucky being able to flip brandables but many drop without ever receiving an offer" How true:xf.wink: Having started many a business i just hand registered two brandable names "Dam River" and "Catch River". According to Hoster Stats "Dam River" had been registered 17 of the last 20 years, and "Catch River" has never been registered.

Neither of these names have been trademarked or service marked so I'll need to invest around $800 to maximize their value. While "Dam River" could be a name for a tech company, "Catch River" will most likely become an apparel brand.

Thanks jmcc(y)
Good luck with them. The Dam River one might have been a geographical reg. The second has some conservation possibilities due to catch and release fishing.

Regards...jmcc
 
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Good luck with them. The Dam River one might have been a geographical reg. The second has some conservation possibilities due to catch and release fishing.

Regards...jmcc
Thanks...i agree with both your assessments. Living on the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic Ocean I'm very familiar with "catch and release" I just had an inquiry on another similar name Hells River. btw, i absolutely luv Hoster Stats....i've just registered about 350 .link domains, and i see where many of them had been registered from 2015 right up to last month. Thanks for your service👍
 
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Because they are much cheaper. I love researching domains and I end up finding some great short domains that are available, but then I cant afford them, as they have a premium price attached.
 
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Sounds like you're referring to invented/made up random names with no meaning. I would advise against building a portfolio with those unless you've figured out how it works with one of the brandable marketplaces, which is basically quantity over quality for those types of names.

As to why not find keyword domains, sure, also two word brandables that can be considered keyword names make for great brands, many can be found expired & worth investing in. In my experience, one could build a quality over quantity portfolio with those names, without dropping the majority every year.

imo
The made up brandables that a lot of domainers go for to reg are the CVCV names (e.g. Yolo / Yoyo /Pogo etc)
and these have virtually all gone (at least in .com).

The brandable craze probably stemmed from the decreasing popularity of EMD/keyword names like buildingservices .tld (due to Google changing its algorithm) and startups choosing misspellings (the most famous being Google as a misspell of 'Googol') like Zomato and made up names like Trivago. The general consensus back then seemed to be that companies want 'brands' in order to be unique and in the eyes of some domainers, that meant weird, out there names.

The problem is that absolute rubbish like dindoploop.pie has been regged and somehow ended up in the brandable marketplaces (thus perpetuating the cycle).
 
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This feels like trying to win the lottery? Why not go find keyword domains that are missed or undervalued in other extensions? Obviously the keyword matters and it needs to be taken in multiple extensions but a 500 dollar flip now feels more realistic than maybe someone 10 years from now will pay me 2,000 for something I made up. Thoughts?

TLDs besides COM generally sell less frequently and for less money. If you are a beginner you aren't going to be maintaining a portfolio of hundreds or thousands of names. If all you have are 10-20 names and they are all in some no-name TLDs, you might go for many years without selling any, and then you may feel discouraged or encounter financial difficulties at some point and let the names drop, taking a loss, never really sure if any of your names were any good. A beginner really needs a sale at some point, to offset their initial cost and give them motivation to keep going, and COMs give them the best chance at making a sale.

Note that almost all TLDs cost around $10 and up to renew, and COMs are near the low end of that scale. So you pay the same or lower renewal fee to maintain a COM name as any other, but it is likely to sell more quickly and for more money. In your example suppose it takes 5 years to sell the COM but 10 years to sell the non-COM. You have to pay $50 to eventually sell the COM at $2,000 (40x profit), while with the non-COM you are paying $100 to eventually sell it for $500 (5x profit). The profit margins are much less for the non-COMs.

Also consider that beginners are not very experienced at picking names, so the names they pick already have a reduced chance of selling, which means on average they are paying for more renewals before a name sells. So what if (from your example) you are wrong (being a beginner) about a name being good just because it is registered in a lot of TLDs, or the name is basically not really compatible with the few TLDs it is not registered in? When you factor that in, the beginner may end up losing money on those non-COMs. Perhaps they will only ever sell one of the five names for $500, and it takes 10 years, but in the meantime they have paid $500 in renewal fees.

Essentially the reasonable renewal fee, the faster time to make a sale, and the increased price at time of sale all help a beginner to reduce the cost the mistakes they are almost sure to make.

Even a stupid name that a beginner might choose, like "gamesz" (games with a random consonant at the end) might have a chance of selling in COM but probably would not ever sell in another TLD. The idea there being that if anyone wants the name for more than the cost of a $10 hand-reg, it's only really going to be one person/entity, and they are probably going to want the COM. Because what are the odds they are willing to accept a stupid name in a stupid TLD (two stupids) for their website? They may just try to find another name in that case. If you bought the COM then you might luck out and escape with a profit, but if you bought something else you're just paying to maintain trash that will almost definitely never sell.


The one exception is if you are hand-regging TLDs like XYZ that cost $1 or so for the initial registration. In that case there's probably no reason not to go to town and register anything that seems decent, as long as your plan is to only hold it for a year and not renew. You get 1 year to sell the name and if not then you drop it and all you lost is $1.
 
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EDIT: I thought for some reason you mentioned "beginners", but some of the reasons I mention still apply to all cases. If someone is not a beginner then they are probably in a better position to dabble in lesser TLDs.
 
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