Whois debate. Need some help.

[DotWeekly]

Ok, I am having issues with a domain name that a friend of mine owns. The domain name is a .com .

Which whois provider is the OFFICIAL whois for the domain with the accurate information (mainly the Expire Date)?

Verisign
Internic
Registrar

My friend renewed his domain. The whois at the registrar shows it does not expire until 2017. Now I check with the Registry for .com domains (Verisign) but it shows it expires in 2008. Now I would say Verisign would hold the Correct data. (btw, he renewed the domain about month or more ago) Internic.net also states the domain expires in 2008. The registrar is the only one that shows 2017 for the expiry date.

This is what I think. I think Verisign has the correct data, since they are the Registry. I know my friend renewed the domain, but I think Parava.net (the registrar) did not pay Verisign for the renewal. Am I correct?

(I tried to post in the domain discussion, but I have Reached My Limit?)

 

[DebX420]

I use:

www.whois.net

They seem to be very accurate

Or just whoever his hosting is through, it should tell him there or they should have their own whois [www.hostdomain.com/whois]

 

[-NC-]

3.2.2 Within five (5) business days after receiving any updates from the Registered Name Holder to the data elements listed in Subsections 3.2.1.2, 3.1.2.3, and 3.2.1.6 for any Registered Name Registrar sponsors, Registrar shall submit the updated data elements to, or shall place those elements in the Registry Database operated by the Registry Operator.

http://www.icann.org/registrars/ra-agreement-17may01.htm

My bet is that the registrar has failed to do this.

edit: a little more research:

In the Shared Registration System model, registrars are responsible for maintaining Whois domain name contact information.

http://www.icann.org/faq/

So the registrar is responsible for maintaining the contact information, but I'm not sure who is ultimately responsible for the maintaining the expiry info. It may be the registrar.

next:

Section 3.7.5 of the Registrar Accreditation Agreement requires registrars to delete domain registrations after a second notice and a grace period, unless there are "extenuating circumstances." Some examples of such "extenuating circumstances" might include ownership disputes, payment disputes, or lame server delegations. Only the registrar would know exactly why it hasn't yet deleted a particular name. No specific dates or deadlines are prescribed in the current provisions.

http://www.icann.org/faq/

"Only the registrar would know exactly why it hasn't yet deleted a particular name." - seems to indicate to me that the registrar is the authority on the expiry.

However, the only sure way to check domain availability or get contact and expiry information is to perform a WHOIS query with the domain's registrar of record.

http://resellers.tucows.com/whois/newwhois

Looks like the registrar is indeed the authority on the expiry, but they may have broken their ICANN accreditation agreement by not updating the registry in time.

 

[Dave_Z]

Which whois provider is the OFFICIAL whois for the domain with the accurate information (mainly the Expire Date)?

Ideally, the Registry. But they're dependent on the registrar providing correct
information to begin with.

 

[DotWeekly]

Thank you for all your help everybody.. This is a very interesting situation.

It is 100% clear to me, that Parava.net has NOT reported the domain name renewal to Verisign (.com Registry) since they renewed it nearly 2 months ago.

Here is another thing to chew on, but is how I see it works.

Process 1.) End user registers a domain name at a ICANN Accredited Registrar.

Process 2.) Registrar submits domain name fees to Verisign (.com, .net, .tv etc)

Process 3.) This info submitted also tells verisign the Creation Date, Expire Date and Domain Name Servers.

Process 4.) Domain is due up for renewal, customer pays renewal fee to Registrar.

Process 5.) Registrar submits fees to Verisign and updates to new expiry date.

etc.

Any update to DNS or expiry date is sent to Verisign for updating the zone files.

In this case, the customer paid for renewal but Parava.net did not pay verisign, so the the expiry date did not update. That's why Parava.net's whois shows 2017 and Verisign whois and zone files shows 4-18-2008 for the expired date.

Now is Parava.net just "Holding" the renewal money until just before the domain expires? Could be, but as stated above, a registrar only has 5 days to submit the payment to Verisign.

 

[Kate]

The registry data is authoritative but it is not uncommon that whois records on the registar end are out of sync.
Also, when a name expires the registrar will often make a preemptive renewal with verisign so the registry expiry date will be registrar expiry date +1 year. The discrepancy can be confusing... the registrar has up to 45 days to nullify the renewal request so they get the money back from verisign.

 

[DotWeekly]

I should have an answer from my friend sometime next week as to what Parava.net's reason behind not sending the info/money to Verisign or whatever the registrar claims. I have all screen shots of Verisign whois and 10-domains.com whois to show the difference and verification from Verisign that the domain will expire on 4-18-2008.

I also looked at whois again at parava.net/10-domains.com and it shows Creation Date of 12/26/2007 which gives me the idea of when he most likely renewed it and seems to be around that time.

The thing is... It was first created back in 1995 as the Verisign whois shows and never dropped. This is a Gem of domain we are talking about, so that's why I am making such a stink about it, plus a friend owns it. CCCP(.)com is the domain btw.

 

[Dave_Z]

Now is Parava.net just "Holding" the renewal money until just before the domain expires? Could be, but as stated above, a registrar only has 5 days to submit the payment to Verisign.

Just saw your post that your friend's taking it up with Parava. Compared the
two and it's exactly what you said.

Just have to wait but consistently followup at this point.

 

[DotWeekly]

Just saw your post that your friend's taking it up with Parava. Compared the
two and it's exactly what you said.

Just have to wait but consistently followup at this point.

Yep, I told him to take that approach first as it could be a clerical error or something like that. Keep in mind he renewed it 12/26/2007. A little past the 5 days allowed by ICANN. If no luck, Report it to ICANN. Then, get the EPP and transfer out to another registrar. That will solve it, but most likely be missing the $ he spent on the renewal to 2017 already.

Just another reason to use Big Registrars like Godaddy, NetSol etc.

 

[Broker]

Sounds pretty illegal to me. Reminds me of one of those american greed tv shows where the stock broker tells everyone their money is safe and invested wisely printing out fake reports to keep them on board.

 

[liquidcherry]

Sounds pretty illegal to me. Reminds me of one of those american greed tv shows where the stock broker tells everyone their money is safe and invested wisely printing out fake reports to keep them on board.

LOL, i think it is funny that your username is"broker" LOL

(didn't wan't to hijack your thread yofie!!)

Cheers,

Frank

 

[Ronald Regging]

Just another reason to use Big Registrars like Godaddy, NetSol etc.

Ewwww, I can't believe you said that!

 

[DotWeekly]

Ewwww, I can't believe you said that!

Yes, I agree.... Why did I say that. :D It was a long day yesterday.

Moniker, Godaddy, eNom etc.

 

[jberryhill]

Could be, but as stated above, a registrar only has 5 days to submit the payment to Verisign.

That's on initial registrations, not renewals.

Verisign will auto-renew at the end of a registration term, and not charge the registrar unless the name is renewed within 30 days.

Parava may simply be holding the multi-year payment until the end of the current term and then applying it when the current registry term comes up for renewal - i.e. submitting all renewals in batches when due, instead of paying in advance.

 

[Broker]

LOL, i think it is funny that your username is"broker" LOL

(didn't wan't to hijack your thread yofie!!)

Cheers,

Frank

Yeah thanks, my username is for sale $500.00 :great: :bingo:

 

[gazzip]

I just bought a Register.com name in the drops a few weeks ago

Domaintools whois.sc shows

Top section under Registry Data

Created: 2000-02-19

Expires: 2009-02-19

^ Which looks correct


Below the whois record shows

Created on..............: Wed, Dec 27, 2006

Expires on..............: Tue, Feb 19, 2019 << 2019 ?????


Very Strange

It shows the same using allwhois.com


Any ideas ?

.

 

[AdoptableDomains]

I also has some unsynchronized whois records between the registrar and registry before that were a different problem. In my case, the registrar accepted payment and updates and forwarded to the registry. However, the registry rejected it because a field such as state or country was left blank in the whois record. Once support figured this out, I completed the blank fields in the whois data and the record was accepted into the registry database.

As JB said, it may also just be the registrar working the float on the cash. If it isn't due for renewal for several months and they can earn interest on holding the money to the last minute, they make more money for the same transaction. Not really ethical since they didn't update your expiration record, but plausible.

 

[tricolorro]

...My friend renewed his domain. The whois at the registrar shows it does not expire until 2017. Now I check with the Registry for .com domains (Verisign) but it shows it expires in 2008. Now I would say Verisign would hold the Correct data. (btw, he renewed the domain about month or more ago) Internic.net also states the domain expires in 2008. The registrar is the only one that shows 2017 for the expiry date.

Yofie,

It's good that your friend realized the domain does not show the renewal at the Registry.

Whether by intent or omission, if the Registrar does not report the renewal then the domain will go through the deletion process after the current expiration date.

This could (and has) easily happen if you own lots of domains
are are not running a tight ship.

Patrick

 

[DotWeekly]

Yofie,

It's good that your friend realized the domain does not show the renewal at the Registry.

I noticed it, but I have been watching it for sometime now. He just kept telling me he renewed it and I kept asking.... Are you sure? Then I looked into it deeper and noticed the registrar never sent in the renewal to the registry.

We should find out more tomorrow after contacting the registrar.

That's on initial registrations, not renewals.

Verisign will auto-renew at the end of a registration term, and not charge the registrar unless the name is renewed within 30 days.

Parava may simply be holding the multi-year payment until the end of the current term and then applying it when the current registry term comes up for renewal - i.e. submitting all renewals in batches when due, instead of paying in advance.

Thank you for the heads up John. Maybe ICANN needs to place another time limit on renewals as well. No reason for them to "Hold" the money and renew when they want!

If I renew a domain, I want it renewed via the registry as well.

 

[tricolorro]

Originally Posted by tricolorro

Yofie,

It's good that your friend realized the domain does not show the renewal at the Registry.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I noticed it, but I have been watching it for sometime now. He just kept telling me he renewed it and I kept asking.... Are you sure? Then I looked into it deeper and noticed the registrar never sent in the renewal to the registry.

We should find out more tomorrow after contacting the registrar.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yofie,

Your friend is lucky he has you watching his (domain) back.


DomainTools has a free domain monitoring service.

You have to create an account but it's otherwise free.

If any changes are made to the status of the domain(s) you are monitoring,
you will be sent an email.

There is usually a couple of days lag time, but it's better than nothing.

Go here:
http://www.domaintools.com/monitor/

Patrick