poll What is your stand on outbound?

[Arpit131]

If you opt for a different opinion, mention it in comments

 

[EbookLover]

If done properly, its Spam.

If done improperly (in bulk) then its spam+scam.

They end up buying something they don't need, to pay for your renewals & whoever is doing the spamming.

They end up buying something they don't need? Then why on earth are you even here?
Presumably you are here because you buy and sell domain names, right? If so, then you are selling stuff to people that they don't need!

 

[DotKing]

Imo, of course it's a spam. What's the difference between selling seo services, flowers, shoes, viagra, domains by unsolicited email message... It's a spam. Nobody ask you for that email offer. There are legal marketing and advertising channels all over the internet.

 

[EbookLover]

Spam is NOT defined by dictionaries

Spam is defined by laws.

For instance, for the USA, you have the CAN SPAM act. It defines what spam is and what constitutes a spammer. You can also read the FTC's CAN SPAM Act Compliance Guide.

Basically, if you are sending unsolicited emails selling something to someone with whom you do not already have a previous relationship with, the main points are that you must...

- Not use false or misleading header information
- Not use deceptive subject lines
- Tell recipients where you’re located
- Give recipients the option to opt out of further emails from you
- Tell them how to opt out
- Honor opt-out requests promptly

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business

 

[BRANDERX]

They end up buying something they don't need? Then why on earth are you even here?
Presumably you are here because you buy and sell domain names, right? If so, then you are selling stuff to people that they don't need!

Thank you for reminding me why I am here, smart...

The answer is no, I don't sell stuff they don't need, you may be doing that.

 

[DotKing]

@EbookLover Then you would need to make legal newsletter of some kind, subscribe to Mailchimp or similar service which covers all you mentioned above, in their TOS and Privacy policies.
They will also suspend your account if recipients are marking your letter as a spam message.
Imo, "outbonding" domains is spam. You can do it in clever way, be seccessful etc... but majority of your emails will be considered as a spam by recipient.

 

[EbookLover]

@EbookLover Then you would need to make legal newsletter of some kind, subscribe to Mailchimp or similar service which covers all you mentioned above, in their TOS and Privacy policies.
They will also suspend your account if recipients are marking your letter as a spam message.
Imo, "outbonding" domains is spam. You can do it in clever way, be seccessful etc... but majority of your emails will be considered as a spam by recipient.

You bring up a good point. But the guidelines do not mention that an opt-IN is necessary, only and opt-OUT.

Why? Because the guidelines are written for unsolicited commercial email (UCE), which is not illegal, provided you follow all the rules/laws for UCE. That is the whole point of that guidelines page. It's basically saying, UCE is not illegal IF you follow the law.

 

[DotKing]

In such services as MailChimp you can import emails to your lists, no need for anyone to opt-in, no problem. But your campaigns need to be in good standing. If people are mostly unsubscribing and marking your email as spam then your account is in trouble. And that service works by law.
So, how can you outbond domains on regular basis without being considered spammer by at least 90% of your potential buyers with typical "Do you need this domain" email?
You need really good strategy to spam by the law

 

[EbookLover]

You don't need to use services like MailChimp. In fact, it is not a wise thing to do for outbounding. These autoresponder services are best used for mailing list management, lead capture and for already-existing customers. People are always going to flag you as spam even if you are not spamming. Even if they opted-in to your list. These autoresponder systems make it too easy to report a list as spam even if it's legally and technically not spam. These services serve a purpose, but not for outbounding. Maybe there is a better, similar service that's geared for legal outbouding, not sure. But you can always to set up your own system. However, it will be more time-intensive, of course.

At any rate, if you read around in this and other domain name forums/sites, you quickly realize that most domainers get into this business as a "passive" way to earn money. They aren't interested in actively selling domains other than registering the domain and listing it for sale/posting an auction or waiting for a buyer to come around That's not totally passive, but it's as passive as most people are going to get.

This is understandable. Outbounding, Cold calling, whatever you want to call it, isn't for everyone.

 

[hookbox]

It's very simple. If I send out 100 emails about an auto niche domain to random companies it is considered spam, but f I send out 100 emails about an auto niche domain to companies in the auto niche it is not considered spam.

 

[DotKing]

Yeah, you can send by law and guidelines but it will be mostly considered spam, which is the point. I was thinking more about impact on your recipients, spammy impression, which means bad business practices so I mentioned MC because of their way to recognize spammy emails (have experience with email marketing).

This is understandable. Outbounding, Cold calling, whatever you want to call it, isn't for everyone.

yup, it isn't for everyone for sure.

 

[DotKing]

It's very simple. If I send out 100 emails about an auto niche domain to random companies it is considered spam, but f I send out 100 emails about an auto niche domain to companies in the auto niche it is not considered spam.

Let's say I'm selling shoes. If I send 100 emails to people that wear shoes it's not a spam? :D

 

[EbookLover]

B2B and B2C cannot be compared IMHO.

 

[EbookLover]

It's very simple. If I send out 100 emails about an auto niche domain to random companies it is considered spam, but f I send out 100 emails about an auto niche domain to companies in the auto niche it is not considered spam.

I don't believe the FTC guidelines concur with this. Plus it can be considered spam in both cases if you do not follow the guidelines. It's really all about and all in the guidelines.

However, it would be silly to outbound to non-targeted or loosely targeted prospects for domain names. The usual goal of outbounding is to find an end user, not another domainer. If you want to sell your domains for wholesale or below wholesale prices, you can just list them here or on any marketplace and you can find a buyer with little effort. But you won't be maximizing your profit. The key is to outbound using a system that minimizes your time used in the process and maximizes your selling price.

 

[hookbox]

Let's say I'm selling shoes. If I send 100 emails to people that wear shoes it's not a spam? :D

 

[poweredbyme]

Advertisement DOES occupy personal spaces of people. If I intend to watch a TV show or a youtube video online, It means that I am interested in that particular show/video only, but those ads which come in between these shows are INTRUSIVE and they come on my PERSONAL TV and my PERSONAL LAPTOP/MOBILE ("personal space"). The only thing is that since there has been no opposition from media houses ever on this issue (because of the associated monetary benefits), we have got hardwired to believe that it's normal.

Ads finance the most things we consume for free. If you don't like ads, pay for TV packets that have no ads, or don't watch TV. You can not complain about something that you buy for free. You can only stop buying for zero $

Media are public space. The same TV programs are watched by millions. How many people read your private emails other than you?

Ads are integral part of the free product. You can not supply a free product in mass quantities if someone else other than final consumers/end users, does not pay your profits.
Ads are intrusive only on paid products like ads on newspapers and magazines.

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Spam is NOT defined by dictionaries

Spam is defined by laws.

For instance, for the USA, you have the CAN SPAM act. It defines what spam is and what constitutes a spammer. You can also read the FTC's CAN SPAM Act Compliance Guide.

Basically, if you are sending unsolicited emails selling something to someone with whom you do not already have a previous relationship with, the main points are that you must...

- Not use false or misleading header information
- Not use deceptive subject lines
- Tell recipients where you’re located
- Give recipients the option to opt out of further emails from you
- Tell them how to opt out
- Honor opt-out requests promptly

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business

This is an old and very permissive law, playing right into real spammers' hands. Especially the point about including a way to unsubscribe... read: notifying spammers that you have received and opened their message, that the email address they spammed is a valid one!

But you do have a point: this is the law on spam, well, at least in the US.

At the other end of the spectrum are the emotionally challenged anti-spam crusaders, who always know better. They hate spam. And anything they hate must be illegal and stopped. Never mind the facts and stupid laws!

While I don't approve of anti-abortion activism, I understand where they are coming from. To them, it's saving lives, educating people, stopping, well, murder. Even if things often get out of hand and they end up hurting people. Anti-spam crusaders seem to have an equally, if not more important, mission in life: saving us all from hell, that's receiving any email the anti-spammers hate and believe to be spam (read: basically anything remotely commercial in nature). Thus saving us all from... using the "Delete" button! Okay, spam, real spam, is a nuisance. Like cockroaches. There are many tools to deal with such nuisances in daily life. Getting all riled up about cockroaches borders on, well, if not stupidity, then at the very least on emotional, anger management issues. IMHO.

Hence, as entertaining as this thread is, it's a complete waste of everybody's time here. For every anti-spammer declaring categorically 100% outbounding to be spam, there will be a "spammer" like me and many others here, a bit more level headed, saying: it depends on how it's done. The best we can do is agree... to disagree

 

[EbookLover]

This is an old and very permissive law, playing right into real spammers' hands. Especially the point about including a way to unsubscribe... read: notifying spammers that you have received and opened their message, that the email address they spammed is a valid one!

Yes sir. The CAN SPAM law is completely flawed on that regard. When I get real spam email, the last thing I would ever do is click on an unsubscribe link or reply to it. Not only does this tell the spammer that the email address is a "live one", but the link might lead to a malicious page. It's a spammer FFS! lol Why would I follow ANY link in a real spam email?

 

[Name Trader]

Let's leave out domains

I have a product software to sell to a company I think may need it, I sent an email to the lead? Is that spam?

Will you call newsletters consisting of products being sold spam too?

Lets start with some basics. Every unsolicited email is SPAM. eMails from newsletters are not SPAM because you have opted in to receive their emails.

 

[EbookLover]

Lets start with some basics. Every unsolicited email is SPAM.

You may not like unsolicited emails, that's fine.
You may not like billboards, that's fine.
You may not like internet ads, that's fine.

But that does not make them illegal.

Spam is illegal but it is not synonymous with UCE (unsolicited commercial email).

UCE is not spam if it follows the CAN SPAM guidelines. It's just UCE.

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Lets start with some basics. Every unsolicited email is SPAM...

Every unsolicited... here we go again! Like I said... lets agree to disagree

Seriously now, I don't mind your and others here hardcore anti-spam stance in the least. Come to think of it, I'm going to shut the heck up now! The more ya'all are against any kind of unsolicited email, the merrier... the less likely you are to even think of investing in domain niches that can only be sold through active promotion, outbound

 

[EbookLover]

I'm a staunch anti-spammer too. But it does get outta hand with a lot of folks.

I have gotten outbound emails from people to sell me domains that were related to a domain I ahve, but I never considered it spam.

No biggie. And more importantly, it's not spam.

 

[Name Trader]

You may not like unsolicited emails, that's fine.
You may not like billboards, that's fine.
You may not like internet ads, that's fine.

But that does not make them illegal.

Spam is illegal but it is not synonymous with UCE (unsolicited commercial email).

UCE is not spam if it follows the CAN SPAM guidelines. It's just UCE.

Please provide a link to the CAN SPAM guidelines, before I respond.

 

[EbookLover]

@ stub, I already did. If it's not on this page it's probably on the previous page.

Google is easy to use too.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=CAN+SPAM+guidelines

lol

In a nutshell, what they say is, be respectable and don't lie and you will not be considered a spammer in the eyes of the law lol, even if it is unsolicited.

 

[Name Trader]

Just so we are on solid footing. Here is the Wikipedia Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_spam

 

[EbookLover]

Who are you gonna trust when you want to know if you are breaking a commerce law?
Wikipedia or FTC.gov?

I don't know about you man, but the choice is clear to me.

I also don't understand what you mean by solid footing. Wikipedia isn't a solid place to read up on what a law currently states. You have no idea it if is up-to-date or if there is an agenda behind it.

You want to find the law? You go to the law.