We Want Forever Registration!

[Business Brands]

Let's solicit the .com registry towards it.

 

[Rob Monster]

No I was just poking fun at your mistype lol

Totally missed that --- now I can laugh with you, and I can laugh at myself too!

 

[Ategy]

@Rob Monster .. you might want to edit the fine print from:

" ... then Epik shall renew the Forever Domain for the maximum period permitted by the applicable domain registry that governs said domain"

To this:

" ... then Epik shall renew the Forever Domain for the maximum period permitted by the applicable domain registry that governs said domain for up to 10 years"

Because it seems there are some TLDs that have allowed over 10 years. I want to guess .ws had 99 years at one point .. although not sure if it was a similar registrar-level promo. Either way .. best to cover your butt .. because much beyond 10 years and the math starts to break down. Also, with ICANN, you never know what the heck they're going to allow/disallow/change next!

 

[Rob Monster]

@Rob Monster .. you might want to edit the fine print from:

" ... then Epik shall renew the Forever Domain for the maximum period permitted by the applicable domain registry that governs said domain"

To this:

" ... then Epik shall renew the Forever Domain for the maximum period permitted by the applicable domain registry that governs said domain for up to 10 years"

Because it seems there are some TLDs that have allowed over 10 years. I want to guess .ws had 99 years at one point .. although not sure if it was a similar registrar-level promo. Either way .. best to cover your butt .. because much beyond 10 years and the math starts to break down. Also, with ICANN, you never know what the heck they're going to allow/disallow/change next!

Fair point there. Will review with @Ala Dadan. Thanks.

 

[Ategy]

No problem .. I think people are giving this a thumbs down without really understanding the intended target audience. It's not really meant for domainers, and I'm not really sure why @Welberch would want it as a domainer?

Because of course it doesn't make sense for a domainer who bought a domain at $50 to expend an extra 800% when those funds could be used to leverage the size of their portfolio instead.

But for a company that wants long term piece of mind, or wants to put everything up front for accounting purposes, then it's a good thing for them.

I personally am not a fan of domains being completely off the market forever in the case the person dies and there are no further instructions on how to deal with the domain. It'll just sit there forever.

That being said .. if you're going to spend 40k as a domainer on a domain, and you've left instructions on what to do after your passing with the registrar, then at 1% of your investment for the domain, the extra $400 could be more easily justified.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Price should go down, not up.

I agree. No doubt real costs are going down for a growing registry re per domain costs. By having a cap does not mean that it would automatically increase by that amount, just set a maximum that it could increase at.

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

Sounds like a GREAT "F U" to a buyer with deep pockets but hates to pay your price but really needs it.

 

[gtldomainer]

I spoke with a friend who runs his own domain-registrar.
He said he is paying about 1 USD (or less) per domain per year.

So the domain-registrars are actually making a lot of money.

I thought I read somewhere they pay ~$7 to ICANN.

 

[Larion]

That most definitely is not true for .com domains. Verisign wholesales .com domains to registrars at $7.85 each.

if the wholesale-price from Verisign towards a Registrar is the same as the retail-price from a Registrar towards an end-user, then how do you think a Registrar is making any money ?

 

[Larion]

when registrars offer domains at less than their wholesale cost to registry they are losing money
Bob

I don't think so...

 

[Paul 11]

Forever domains sounds good if it's somehow guaranteed to be Forever although like most other Forever things like "lifetime warranty" it might be more of an advertising and branding tool than being what the word actually means.

Nevertheless why do we have to pay so much per year for a domain in the first place, I know that at the beginning it was necessary to charge something to get the internet infrastructure in place, but now that there are almost 300 million domains registered Worldwide why shouldn't the registry price of for example .com go down considering that the number of registrations have been steadily increasing and in a few years they might be double of what they are today.

I believe that when .com registrations reaches to 200 million the registry should be charging 99¢ per domain plus 2 or 3¢ for ICANN fees.

IMO

Sadly in a lot of companies/businesses these days, the motto is: If we can get your money we will. A corporate culture for many. We consumers have to have a conversation about this concerned reg fees, which this thread is doing.

 

[Ted Twofoot]

dont understand that...

 

[Ategy]

That is some wisdom right there. All that time @Ategy.com is not spending walking Steamie is working out to make him insanely articulate and concise too. What in the world is happening????

Pretty sure I've always been insane and articulate .. not sure what "concise" is though? lol

First (minor) snowfall in Montreal today .. so Steamie wasn't too keen on a big walk .. thankfully I saw it coming and made sure we did a really big walk yesterday!

dont understand that...

You need to be more specific ... this thread has drifted quite a bit! lol

 

[Rob Monster]

dont understand that...

Inside joke. You would have to read a lot of @Ategy.com posts to connect those dots. Brew a big pot of coffee, read @Ategy.com recent posts, and before bedtime, it will all make sense. I realize that you are brand new here but it is like knowing the Secret handshake of the club to figure it out. Good to have you here, by the way.

 

[BrandableDomain]

Even worse .. is that Escrow.com isn't even a real Escrow itself, because unless you pay double the fee for their concierge service, your domains are not protected in anyway throughout the transaction. Now there's no doubt Escrow.com will do their best to track down and resolve any issues .. but in theory you could transfer the domain to the buyer, and he or she can claim they never received it! It's a huge flaw in their system and most certainly not in any way an air tight escrow .. specifically on the domainer side.

You as the seller do not initiate transfer of a domain to the buyer until Escrow.com has notified you that they have received and are holding the payment funds from the buyer.

You send the authcode to the buyer via their email address which you obtain from Escrow.com. So you have an email trail that proves you sent the authcode to the buyer’s email address which they provided to Escrow.

You also notify Escrow that you have started or completed the transfer. (There is a sequence of steps that the buyer and the seller must take.)

You also have an email from your previous registrar proving that your transfer has been completed.

It is a very rigorous process to sign up to Escrow.com, you have to provide extensive and detailed proof of identity. It would be quite difficult to establish a false identity.

If the buyer claims not to have received your domain, Escrow will not refund their money (nor pay you) until a full investigation is made.

It shouldn’t be too hard for their investigators to find out who has possession of the domain.

There is no “huge flaw” in their system. They have processed more than $3,500,000,000 in transactions. They are the world leader, nobody comes close.

Here are details of their escrow licenses:

https://www.escrow.com/escrow-licenses

Why do you claim that “Escrow.com isn't even a real Escrow”?

 

[Business Brands]

How is it relevant to forever registrations?

 

[7363824]

The money actually isn't so much an issue as people think .. effectively at $392 ($400 - first year cost), they only need to make about 2.6% a year interest on the money for the renewals to effectively be paid by the interest alone. The math is definitely there to support such a plan unless there is a huge crash at the start with no significant re-correction for years. So sure it's possible .. but very unlikely. Even then, if the money of all such forever registrations are pooled together, it mitigates the effects of something like that having a significant effect.

Ya 2.6% until .com prices go up which now with the new contract they will almost certainly. The new contract allows verisign a 7% annual increase in the last 4 years of every 6 year term. I see no reason why cerigin wont go for the max price increases. Over time it will not be sustainable.

 

[Michael Ehrhardt]

Let's solicit the .com registry towards it.

yes

 

[Pay.My.id]

I feel that we still remembered about alpnames case, forever registration is only another option , its not ideal solution in some situation

 

[lock]

Theres no way for anyone to know if Epik or any other registrar will still be around and honoring these 50 20 ot even 10 years from now.

Maybe he should dye his hair. lol I will put a wig on.

 

[7363824]

Not really ... 7% growth on $7.85 is $0.55 .. to make up the difference we're talking about needing an extra 0.14% in return on the $392. Plus I based my initial calculation on after the 4th 7% hike.
At $392, they only need to make 2.00% interest to pay the current $7.85, then the cost increases to the fund is 0.14% more for every 7% increase in registration. Considering the average market performance is significantly more than that, unless there is a huge unrecovered crash at the start (and even then it probably would be fine), then there really is no danger unless a registrar closes for other reasons.

2.6% was actually the amount after the 4th 7% increase in wholesale renewal cost. While the difference between 2% and 2.6% might seem like alot, it's based on the same original $392 .. and we need to keep in mind that the markets will likely outperform that to increase that base $392, which in turn would mean actually needing less than 2.6%. In fact, if we go by theoretical averages, the fund should actually grow in the long term, making the financial viability truly "forever".

The only issue is a serious crash at the start, which certainly is possible given the very unpredictable state of the world today, but it would have to be worse than the worse crash ever with no recovery. The chances are far more that a registrar uses the funds for something else and then also goes bankrupt for different reasons.

For most people, it's no secret that in terms of a pure money play, you're better off paying year by year and keep the extra $392 in the markets collecting interest yourself. However, it's important to keep in mind that this forever option is not about that .. it's about security and stability .. which is worth vastly more than $392 if you have an important domain or a big company. As I said .. forever domains really aren't good for domainers for many reasons .. but they can be a very good option for end users depending on their company and circumstances.

As a domainer of only 3 years, I've already resold an expired domain I got at auction back to the original owner. I gave it to him relatively cheap because of the circumstances .. but it was still more than $392.

There are tons of pros/cons regarding forever domains .. but the financial viability of the concept when initial price is 50x, really isn't an issue in any way. That's not to say a registrar couldn't go bankrupt for other reasons, but as long as they charge around 50x of the current renewal cost, they won't go bankrupt because of forever domains unless market fundamentals turn on their head.

In an ideal world the math pans out. In reality things are never that clean. There are lots of pitfalls and I for one wouldn't put my money at risk because it should work out on paper.

 

[lock]

Domain actuary never thought it was required. Guess when you get enough....

 

[postscripter]

blockchain domains are forever. like .zil
unstoppabledomains.com

 

[ahmed gamil]

i really need that but i don't think it will be happened

 

[b2betrade]

Why forever
Nothing is forever
If u r end-user go for 10-20 year registration
If u r domainer buy 40-50 domains in $400 and earn 2x-3x by selling 1-2 domain from 40-50

 

[Tia Wood]

We are having way too much fan