Verisign to Profit from Rootserver Data?

[weblord]

Verisign to Profit from Rootserver Data?

According to sources, Verisign, the operator of the generic TLDs .COM & .NET registry, is considering selling access to selected root dns server lookup data to registrars. The root servers are what make domain names work on the Internet, meaning that many domain queries hit these servers on their way to a site or an email recipient.

Why is this data so interesting? It contains the majority of failed lookups, meaning the Verisign nameservers will be hit and log the query, when someone enters a domain name that does not exist. While many domain-tasters have obtained this information directly from ISPs, getting this directly from Verisign would be a step up the chain, since Verisign manages two of the 13 root name servers.

more: http://www.domainnamenews.com/editorial/verisign-to-profit-from-rootserver-data/889

 

[Ronald Regging]

Ehh.. Why not? It's their info to sell if they wish.

 

[maximum]

Verisign's Greed will cost us all!

William: THANKS FOR POSTING! Great info to know Verisign is still up to its old self taking advantage of its contracts!

Ehh.. Why not? It's their info to sell if they wish.

Is it really? Last time I checked, they managed the registry, for us all, via a contract with ICANN (albiet, like many things in their past, Verisign is trying to think otherwise here, it sadly appears). They manage it, but own it? That is both the legal and the moral question. An example of why the moral issue:

I just hand-regged a few names that had dropped over the last few days. These were names that I was surprised to see drop (and especially not caught by backorders), that while of maybe not much value on the resell market (depends on how used - rather developed or a motivated buyer with deep pockets), were semi-popular during their initial usage (owner apparently didn't know about delete cycle or was absentee not noting expired at all, or they would have at least parked them to sell). I found them simply by actually thinking I couldn't afford them, strange as that sounds, considering paid regfee in the end. That is to say, I saw them on a search I did of upcoming drops on one of the big catch services I use, and I didn't even put them on backorder because I figured they would get a lot of folks going after them and go for big $ at auction. I just marked them as "watched", and to my shock, no one grabbed them using any service or by hand. I went and got my wanted domains fast as I could visit my registrar :bingo:

The dilemma this causes? Simple really. The fact that I got lucky as Hades is, in itself, besides the point here. I had to do some looking. I had to know what was and was not popular. I had to check (the search) what was available/upcoming and weed through a lot of crap domains by hand. I had to then register it the ole manual way. OK, now I am NOT saying at all that those that use programs to do any of the above are wrong for doing so....Be my guess, and just hope for every gem your automated progs spit out that they don't also spit out a few thousand "why would I want that's". Matter of fact, when I am trying to catch names on the drop, even I have been known to use progs (on desktop and servers) to try and beat the crowd in catching it (all is fair, as my competition is the likes of Pool, Snapnames, Namejet, ect., and untold thousands of domainers doing the same as I am). What I have a problem with here is, that if Verisign does this, companies with the $, and those with the direct connections, like the drop-catch services I named (among others - registrars themselves) will have the advantage of not having to do a single thing other than hit a start button. They wouldn't even have to wade through the trash to find what they want, since terms/phrases in their systems that are compared to the Verisign data would just let them auto-catch only what they want while the rest of us have to still at least weed-out the trash.

Not convinced yet that this is a problem or unfair? Imagine if Google, Yahoo, or MSN/Live Search got into this game - and used their search stats to auto-calculate what to grab (plus, compared it to this outside-their-system data). We as domainers (at least those that "speculate" and try to catch domains to resell or make parking revenue off of) would be literally killed off!

We all, already, compete against big boys, with big money, and big domain-grabbing toys. This could take the game from "tough to make a name for yourself" to true "cut-throat" (our throats), IMHO. If they are going to already have the advantages on the drop, why should having $million+ to spare also mean they don't have to second-guess what folks are looking for that they are not looking for via thier own website (or atleast without researching it as we have to)?

maximum gets off his podium now, and shuts up :hehe:

 

[labrocca]

Abuse of privacy laws imho.

 

[Ronald Regging]

I dont see how it is an abuse of privacy laws as there is no identifiable information being retained. They just keep track of which domains are getting hits that don't resolve, because they aren't registered. As pointed out, ISPs already sell this information.

As far as the issue about contracts with ICANN. I can't really elaborate on that, but I assume if they are doing it, it's something that either falls within the contract, or the collection of the data falls outside of the scope of the contract. Technically, these lookups are for domains that are not within the root file, because they do not exist...

Look at it this way. Say you're going out of town for a week. You need someone to watch your dog, so you hire me to watch it in my home for the week. During this time, some eccentric rich guy knocks on my door and hands me a briefcase full of $100 bills. Now... So, since I received this money while watching your dog in my home, you should somehow be entitled to it?

These servers are being run by Verisign (in their home) and they are just watching the root file (the dog)... They're also collecting information (money) on domains that don't even exist, thus presumably outside of the scope of their contract...

I guess it will come down to whether ICANN has an issue with this and whether it is covered by the contract. I'm not saying one way or another, but it's my educated guess that legally, it doesn't fall within the scope of the contract, or even more realistically, that ICANN is sitting around with thumbs up butts...

Regardless, it comes down to an issue of money. Is it right that people/companies with big money get access to information that will make them even more money while the rest of us sit around digging through crap? Well... in this world, yes... Thats how business works... People seem to forget that business is not socialism. This isn't a hippie commune... I'm as poor as they come in the domain business and yes, I don't like people having advantages while I stand on the sidelines... But, they're paying good money for those advantages and that's how it works. If you can't compete at that level, then you need to find what works for your, build and eventually get to that level... Success isn't free or easy.

 

[-NC-]

Look at it this way. Say you're going out of town for a week. You need someone to watch your dog, so you hire me to watch it in my home for the week. During this time, some eccentric rich guy knocks on my door and hands me a briefcase full of $100 bills. Now... So, since I received this money while watching your dog in my home, you should somehow be entitled to it?

to me, a better analogy would be if you pimped out the dog you were watching. just because you're looking after the dog, shouldn't give you the right to sell it.

I guess it will come down to whether ICANN has an issue with this and whether it is covered by the contract. I'm not saying one way or another, but it's my educated guess that legally, it doesn't fall within the scope of the contract, or even more realistically, that ICANN is sitting around with thumbs up butts...

agreed 100%

Thats how business works... People seem to forget that business is not socialism. This isn't a hippie commune... I'm as poor as they come in the domain business and yes, I don't like people having advantages while I stand on the sidelines... But, they're paying good money for those advantages and that's how it works.

it's not socialism, but it's not despotism either. business has responsibilities to the society its reaping profits from and the law is supposed to be there to enforce them.

 

[Ronald Regging]

to me, a better analogy would be if you pimped out the dog you were watching. just because you're looking after the dog, shouldn't give you the right to sell it.

Well... What if you watch the dog and pimp out the imaginary dog?? Verisign is doing their job of watching the root file and maintaining the existing domains... I am not sure they were contracted to maintain domains that don't exist

it's not socialism, but it's not despotism either. business has responsibilities to the society its reaping profits from and the law is supposed to be there to enforce them.

I agree with this 100%. But we don't know the legalities of this situation yet. And as I mentioned, it's not like anyone's privacy is being invaded... They aren't tracking IPs and selling identifiable information (though, this happens all the time elsewhere). They're selling statistics on the number of hits to a domain that doesn't even exist. I'm not sure who the victim is in this scenario.

An additional note.. Imagine all of the domains being tasted, registered and then dropped in the millions a year... ICANN doesn't care, because they get fees and don't do anything. Verisign is happy to get more registrations, but at the same time, this whole process uses massive amounts of their resources... Now I'm not arguing that Verisign is a noble enterprise, but they do contribute this factor to the need to increase domain registration prices...

So essentially, they're trying to partner with the big tasters to eliminate this massive rollover of tasting, provide stats that will eliminate the need for them to taste in the first place... This ultimately ends up with less resources being used, more domain registrations being retained and Verisign making money all around... Maybe this will allow for them to lower registration rates for the common man... Doubtful... But it's good business on their part and I imagine it's ICANN's solution to tasting...

 

[-NC-]

I'm not sure who the victim is in this scenario.

all good points as per usual RR, i'm not sure who the victim is either.

something just smells bad. kinda like if the federal reserve decided to sell information about future interest rate changes to the banks.
( exposing my ignorance here, perhaps something like this already happens, in fact that's a terrible analogy )

 

[weblord]

:bingo:
so expect more spam this year, 2008 great way to start new year :td:

Abuse of privacy laws imho.

 

[Ronald Regging]

:bingo:
so expect more spam this year, 2008 great way to start new year :td:

Yes, if you are the owner of a domain that doesn't exist, then you can expect more spam...

I'm not understanding you.