The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[verbster]

Every time wife mentions her smart daughter, and she is very smart in so many ways, I dig in with yep she is smart to see the lies of democrats.

Hey, neat idea for this thread....
No freaking politics!
Damn, coming in this thread is like turning my tv on and bam!
Damn political ad....

Okay. post away about parenting and whatever. But before you start name-calling, I didn't start the political remarks on the other thread. Things were fine until Dawg made the unsolicited comment about "lies of Democrats," and then didn't acknowledge his role when he complained about people posting politics there. I can only stomach so much hypocrisy.

Furthermore, RW's rant about liberals secretly being totalitarians trying to bleed the system for personal gain is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Funny because that's exactly what liberals believe about conservatives, that they put money above all else.

So convince me that it's conservatives that want to look out for people more than liberals do. Show me the charities conservatives for the weak and poor. Show me all of the conservatives trying to protect the environment.

Explain to me what conservatives have done in the last 20 years that helps the common family making under $100K per year.

 

[DU]

If you'll read, you'll see I wasn't judging student loans; I was questioning the lack of data the author provided for his argument about the amount student loans were infringing on the real estate market.

As far as your mom and pop not going to college, mine didn't either, and they did okay, too. I was the first of my complete lineage to graduate from college, but I had to work and take out student loans to afford it, especially grad school. And, yes, they were a pain in the ass to repay, but I did. And for me it was worth it.

Times have changed. I'm not sure they're worth it any more for a lot of people. Sorry that I took your statement out of context.
I read the following with a negative tone

"What's left out is the alternative (and his solution), the alternative being no student loans, which would certainly end the debt burdened student . . . mostly because many of those students wouldn't be going to college"

No worries. I'm definitely staying out of this thread now because Survivor is starting (?)

 

[Kate]

Why are we advocating students taking out a loan to PAY for the right to WORK in an industry as a form of on the job training.

It's ABSURD.

The loan in fact is part of the education
Students are trained to be Good Americans. Debt is part of being an American.

Nowadays, the people (aka the 'sheeple') are for the most part dependent on various state aids, and they also carry a personal debt that is more or less unsustainable. It is OK as long as they have a job, but Americans are typically not saving a lot, so missing a paycheck or two can have bad consequences.
Because people are in debt, they are not free either. This is the best way to keep people in 'check'.
People are less likely to challenge the 'system' when they are so dependent on it and have too much to lose.
Think about it

 

[verbster]

The loan in fact is part of the education
Students are trained to be Good Americans. Debt is part of being an American.

Nowadays, the people (aka the 'sheeple') are for the most part dependent on various state aids, and they also carry a personal debt that is more or less unsustainable. It is OK as long as they have a job, but Americans are typically not saving a lot, so missing a paycheck or two can have bad consequences.
Because people are in debt, they are not free either. This is the best way to keep people in 'check'.
People are less likely to challenge the 'system' when they are so dependent on it and have too much to lose.
Think about it

Good point, but what have they got to lose? Bankruptcy is not such a big deal, it seems. If you have $100K in loans . . . .

 

[Theo Goodman]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rategy-beheaded-at-least-8-people-last-month/

 

[Theo Goodman]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/1...cant-shake-falsehoods-about-ties-to-isis.html

 

[GILSAN]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/1...cant-shake-falsehoods-about-ties-to-isis.html

John McCain and a very large number of politicians should be put in quarantine for a very long time.

 

[DU]

Good point, but what have they got to lose? Bankruptcy is not such a big deal, it seems. If you have $100K in loans . . . .

Student loans do not go away in any bankruptcy proceeding.... so there is that.

 

[Domainace]

More good news from the land of the free...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/americ...rge-you-but-they-ll-grab-your-money-1.2760736

 

[JB Lions]

More good news from the land of the free...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/americ...rge-you-but-they-ll-grab-your-money-1.2760736

Thanks for keeping us informed of scary America.

 

[verbster]

Student loans do not go away in any bankruptcy proceeding.... so there is that.

It's a little difficult, I think, but unless laws have changed (and they may well have), if you could prove the loan payments impose an undue hardship . . . and could prove it with some test named after a court case (i'll look it up . . . .success: The Brunner test. you can get them reduced or zero'ed out. In Alaska, they used to have a forgiveness program that took 10% off your loan amount for every year you lived in Alaska, up to five years, after graduating.

 

[DU]

It's a little difficult, I think, but unless laws have changed (and they may well have), if you could prove the loan payments impose an undue hardship . . . and could prove it with some test named after a court case (i'll look it up . . . .success: The Brunner test. you can get them reduced or zero'ed out. In Alaska, they used to have a forgiveness program that took 10% off your loan amount for every year you lived in Alaska, up to five years, after graduating.

Ok so as long as you don't make more than the poverty amount and don't foresee that happening in the near future you can have it wiped away. Doesn't even seem to have a clause in it that states "you did actually try to complete the coursework".....

Nothing like a system that pushes tax money into for profit education and does nothing for anyone of any use.

My retirement plan is becoming clearer.

 

[verbster]

Well, for sure it helps those who need it. I don't know what percentage of borrowers get their degrees. There are always those who take advantage.

For example, some borrowed the max each year for four or six years and put it straight into investments. At the end of their degree, they moved back here and started payments back a year later. After five years, they withdrew enough to cover the remaining 50% (or so) and were free and clear with however much 10 years of investment got them, plus 50% of the original loan. Enough to make a big down payment on a house. It both pissed me off and made me envious.

 

[DU]

Well, for sure it helps those who need it. I don't know what percentage of borrowers get their degrees. There are always those who take advantage.

For example, some borrowed the max each year for four or six years and put it straight into investments. At the end of their degree, they moved back here and started payments back a year later. After five years, they withdrew enough to cover the remaining 50% (or so) and were free and clear with however much 10 years of investment got them, plus 50% of the original loan. Enough to make a big down payment on a house. It both pissed me off and made me envious.

It should piss you off and you should not be envious.
It should piss you off because they are taking advantage of a system that is supposed to exist for support and is financed by tax dollars.

Are you envious of those who are rich because they filed false tax returns? Why would you be envious of those who made money because they gambled with public support?

They're scum.as far as I'm concerned and you should never be envious of those with low moral character. You should be glad you are not like them.

 

[verbster]

It should piss you off and you should not be envious.
It should piss you off because they are taking advantage of a system that is supposed to exist for support and is financed by tax dollars.

Are you envious of those who are rich because they filed false tax returns? Why would you be envious of those who made money because they gambled with public support?

They're scum.as far as I'm concerned and you should never be envious of those with low moral character. You should be glad you are not like them.

I'm not sure, but I think it was financed by oil revenue, not tax dollars (we have no state tax), but I agree it was intended for those who needed it, not those who didn't.

It's not like filing a false tax return, which is more like embezzlement. The money was paid back with interest.

"Scum" and "low moral character" are subjectively tough words for this situation. I don't think the loans stipulated they had to be spent on anything specific. And the terms were met. Where do you draw a "scum" line? Is someone who goes to a bar with friends one night a month "scum" for spending a few bucks of a loan on recreation?

 

[Theo Goodman]

Legal but Shady
http://www.npr.org/2014/09/26/351520037/former-fed-bank-examiner-says-secret-tapes-show-fed-leniency

 

[Theo Goodman]

This is going to be like Snowden for the FED
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/536/the-secret-recordings-of-carmen-segarra
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-26/the-secret-goldman-sachs-tapes

 

[Domainace]

Nice find, but I doubt it will have any impact. Even Snowden didn't have the impact he should have. Throw in economics and it will sail right by. Those who are awake won't be surprised, and those who are asleep will stay that way until their TV/iPad is shut off.

 

[ImageAuthors]

Why are we advocating students taking out a loan to PAY for the right to WORK in an industry as a form of on the job training.

It's ABSURD.

I agree with you. The American higher education system is a racket. It is dragging down the economy overall by wasting human capital for 4+ years of every adult lifetime and miring people in debt.

In my case, I was lucky enough to get an engineering degree without incurring any college debt. But that isn't the typical situation.

Ideally, people would enter the work force at the age of 16. Then, as necessary for professional development or as desired for personal reasons, we could go back to school as adults on a part-time basis while continuing to work at least part time.

 

[Theo Goodman]

MSNBC on the FED tapes:
http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/matt-taibbi-and-alexis-goldstein-on-fed-tapes-334118467807