The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[JB Lions]

Michael Brown Store Robbery Video Minutes Before Shooting! Looks pretty obvious what he did.

If Michael Brown and his little friend had not stolen stuff from the store, the police would not have been called about the robbery, no confrontation would have happened, therefore no killing would have occurred.

On top of that because the cop was white and the victim black, all that rioting and looting started and spread around many cities around the US. If the cop had been black, more than likely there would be no rioting or racial tension and of course, Obama would not have interrupted his golf game to come on National TV to talk about it, while Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be nowhere to be found.

Unfortunately looting just reinforces stereotypes.

That's not true.

First, little guy didn't steal anything. There is a reason why the police didn't arrest him, they addressed this already. Big guy took the stuff, handed some of it to little guy, little guy puts it back, if you watched the video. From watching the video, I don't have much doubt that this was the first time he stole something or used his size to intimidate somebody.

The confrontation might have happened regardless, since they say it started with them walking in the middle of street or something.

There's conflicting reports as to whether the police officer knew of the theft in the store.

Did he know or find out, did he see the cigars and make the connection?

Then, you just can't shoot people 35 feet away with their hands up. But that's the only information we have now, besides people saying there was some scuffle in/by the police car. We're missing anything from the police officer. What if he says, there was an incident, guy starting running away but when he turned around, instead of having his hands up, he made a motion like he had a gun. Then that would be a different story.

Basically, nobody can really make a judgement on the shooting since we don't have all the facts yet. We haven't heard from the officer, no video of the event.

Also, I think it's pathetic the police just stood there last night and watch felonies take place. They're now too scared to do their job because of possible backlash. And tonight there is a curfew from midnight - 5AM. What's going to happen if people break that curfew? Are the police going to arrest them? Allow looting but don't allow breaking of the curfew? So, we'll see how that plays out.

 

[Kate]

Police state? All countries have police, riot gear, incidents of police abuse etc. So if the U.S. is a police state, then Japan is a police state, Iceland is a police state, Portugal is a police state.....

There is no question that abuse exists in every country.
Yet Icelandic police has so far killed one person in its history (of 2 centuries). Not bad for a rogue, brutal police force (that doesn't usually carry guns).

Sadly the US seems to concentrate the worst abuses like:

• invading foreign countries under false pretenses and killings tens of thousands of innocents in the process
  
• killing and abducting people on foreign soil without due process
  
• indefinite detention without trial in violation of the Constitution, US law, and the norms of civilized conduct
  
• arbitrary hindrance to the freedom to travel (no fly list)
• global surveillance of the citizenry without probable cause (NSA)
• a correctional system gone mad
• property rights are no longer guaranteed due to widespread asset forfeiture and one-sided interpretation of the law
  
• then you have the so-called war on drugs, now superseded by the bogus war on terror that is the pretext for justifying any abuse by the government
• an unhealthy atmosphere of paranoia and hysteria
• a total disregard for privacy (if you have no privacy you are not free at all)
  
• The US used to be a grand nation, but has declined extremely fast over the last decade, faster than you realize. This country has really fallen to the bottom. America, even your closest allies are fed up and disgusted. I don't recognize this country.

You could say, screw you, we don't care what foreigners think. If only foreigners were not affected by all this shit made in USA. I would be happy.
I am in touch with quite a few American expats on a daily basis and not a single one is homesick. They must be seeing it doesn't have to be like this.

 

[JB Lions]

So it's ok to beat people and abuse their power, as long as they don't kill you?

Interesting how you always focus on the negative. We're the only country that really steps up when somebody asks. The Euros sit there doing nothing usually.

Hindrance to travel? What? So terrorists should be ok to travel? Or are you talking about your fear of fingerprints again? I have no hindrance to travel whatsoever, so really have no idea what you're talking about on that one. Please elaborate. It's funny you talking about that, after I posted a link to an article about your country doing exactly that because.........of what somebody named their child. You didn't touch that one for some reason.

Surveillance? Don't be naive, all countries do it. It's funny earlier in the thread talking about how Germany was all upset about it, this just came out today:

Report: German intel spied on Kerry, Clinton

http://news.msn.com/world/report-german-intel-spied-on-kerry-clinton-1

Pretty much the rest of it is your own paranoia or bunk.

"an unhealthy atmosphere of paranoia and hysteria"

From who? Seems like the most paranoid about America live in Japan, Iceland and Portugal, not too many actual Americans, except for those that like to monetize the gullible people.

You're even bringing up war on drugs that started in the 80's that's actually getting relaxed now.

Maybe you're so used to your own government's overly controlling you, that you don't even see it. Can't name your kids what you want. You paranoid about fingerprints when your own government controls health care, they know everything about you, no room for private enterprise. Maybe the people in your country are getting tired of it, that's why incidents there are starting to happen more.

"I am in touch with quite a few American expats on a daily basis and not a single one is homesick."

Really. That's probably why they are living there. Again, something you can do with anybody in any country. I'm sure there are people from Iceland living an America that don't miss living in cold all the time.

Again, with any country, I can find good and bad. But you're pretty one-sided with it. Not very balanced now is it.

Please, tell me what America has done that has affected you or Iceland in a negative way. Something deeper than your fear of fingerprinting.

 

[Domainace]

The camouflage is the comedy in the midst of tragedy. Desert camouflage in an urban environment - really helps them blend in, eh?

But then, maybe they are not so stupid. They don't want to blend in - they want to stand out. They want to look like military rather than police. Maybe to better intimidate the public they are supposed to protect.

 

[JB Lions]

The camouflage is the comedy in the midst of tragedy. Desert camouflage in an urban environment - really helps them blend in, eh?

But then, maybe they are not so stupid. They don't want to blend in - they want to stand out. They want to look like military rather than police. Maybe to better intimidate the public they are supposed to protect.

Somebody missed the Japan videos. Are Japanese police fans of the Middle Ages or something? Ooh, police wore colored pants, oh no.

Upping the fear factor
There is a disturbing gap between actual crime in Japan and public worry over it

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2007/02/20/issues/upping-the-fear-factor/#.U-_eHWPQDwQ

JAPAN : Gov't calls for Police State by 2030

 

[iowadawg]

This is getting funnier and funnier.
Keep it up guys.
Now our police here I have yet to see camo or even flak jackets (okay, body armor).
They are in blue and all the ones I have see and/or talked to are okay guys.
Heck, they arrested one kid for pot possession.
Had him handcuffed and in the vehicle.
Mother showed up.
They took him out, took the handcuffs off, and allowed the two of them to talk and hug for a bit before putting him back in the vehicle (without the handcuffs!).

 

[JB Lions]

Haven't seen camo either:

https://www.google.com/search?q=orlando police&client=firefox-a&hs=VrT&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Kt_vU-WEDeb-8AG5kIDYBA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAw&biw=1264&bih=539#channel=sb&q=orlando police&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&imgdii=_

Blue uniforms, Chevy cars, some on bikes, some on motorcycles, some in shorts, some in t-shirts, some in polo shirts, some riding Segways, some riding horses. Scary stuff.

 

[verbster]

You may have seen our Troopers on the Alaska State Troopers TV show. They all wear vests under their normal blue uniforms. They also wear rain coats and cold weather gear. They wear side arms, but they also have shotguns and assault rifles in their trunks. Every once in a while one gets shot to death. Every once in a while they shoot someone to death, usually after that person has killed someone else and doesn't want to go to jail.

In some respects it's still like the wild west up here. No license is required to carry a concealed weapon, and just about everyone owns guns. If I were a cop up here, I'd be scared shitless.

 

[forge]

Now our police here I have yet to see camo or even flak jackets (okay, body armor).

Well then, dammit, go down to the station and give them some flak!

:D

But seriously, the militarization aspect of US police forces is glaringly apparent and has been increasingly so following circa 9/11, and it's way out of control. It's a course that HAS to be halted. The reasons why are starting to become quite clear.

 

[verbster]

Not trying to argue: Would like to understand what militarization of the police forces means. Do you mean what they are wearing and the guns they carry, or more than that, like the justice system in general?

 

[verbster]

Politics and Domaining . . . . Who says you can't have both?

Steven Colbert buys domain: thesarahpalinchannel.com ''
http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/zo7j8y/the-sarah-palin-channel

Palin's pay per membership is without "the" at the beginning. Should be interesting.

 

[forge]

Not trying to argue: Would like to understand what militarization of the police forces means. Do you mean what they are wearing and the guns they carry, or more than that, like the justice system in general?

This article sums it up fairly well.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-rethinks-giving-excess-military-gear-police-25006828

excerpt:

A report by the American Civil Liberties Union in June said police agencies had become "excessively militarized," with officers using training and equipment designed for the battlefield on city streets. The report found the amount of goods transferred through the military surplus program rose in value from $1 million in 1990 to nearly $450 million in 2013.
"Every police force of any size in this country has access to those kinds of weapons now," said David Harris, a police expert at the University of Pittsburgh law school. "It makes it more likely to be used (and) is an escalation all by itself."
In Louisiana, masked police in full body armor carrying AR-15 assault rifles raided a nightclub without a warrant, looking not for terrorists but underage drinkers and fire-code violations. Officers in California train using the same counterinsurgency tactics as those used in Afghanistan.
"They're not coming in like we're innocent until proven guilty," said Quinn Eaker. SWAT teams last August raided his organic farm and community, the Garden of Eden, in Arlington, Texas. "They're coming in like: 'We're gonna kill you if you move a finger.'"

Disclaimer: I am no fan of the ACLU. Plus I don't need their report because I see a change a-comin' and the American citizenry should be mighty worried about what's coming down the track.

 

[verbster]

Disclaimer: I am no fan of the ACLU. Plus I don't need their report because I see a change a-comin' and the American citizenry should be mighty worried about what's coming down the track.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Kate]

But seriously, the militarization aspect of US police forces is glaringly apparent and has been increasingly so following circa 9/11, and it's way out of control. It's a course that HAS to be halted. The reasons why are starting to become quite clear.

Another telltale sign of the police state, along military-like law enforcement, is the mass surveillance of the populace
What you (or me) are typing right now is most likely being tapped by the NSA, to be analyzed, possibly recorded, and assessed for 'terrorist' risk. Just like your phone calls. The US government is paranoid and wants to know everything about everybody. Who talks to whom, when and where from. Not just designated bad guys. Everyone. Simply put, you are all potential enemies of the state, and treated as such.

This level of surveillance state is unprecedented, far worse than the Stasi. Not science fiction. It's today's reality.
Where is the outrage.
Just forty years ago, Nixon fell for a petty bugging affair, but now the whole nation is being bugged and the perpetrators are getting away with it.
Remember, what they are doing is illegal and downright criminal. But the government refuses to abide by the law, this is the very definition of unaccountable, corrupt, despotic government.
The new US Constitution (now irrelevant anyways) should begin like this:
"We the Sheeople".

 

[forge]

What do you mean by this?

It's not that important.

 

[iowadawg]

Mapping the Spread of the Military’s Surplus Gear
State and local police departments obtain some of their military-style equipment through a free Defense Department program created in the early 1990s. While the portion of their gear that comes from the program is relatively small (most of it is paid for by the departments or through federal grants), detailed data from the Pentagon illustrates how ubiquitous such equipment has become. Highlighted counties have received guns, grenade launchers, vehicles, night vision or body armor through the program since 2006.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/15/us/surplus-military-equipment-map.html?_r=1

Quite interesting just for here in Iowa.

Oh, the majority of the NSA and government snooping?
Like the drug culture!
Keeping track of those who talk, write and use drugs.
And so forth.
So stay away from drugs and the NSA will just leave you alone.

 

[verbster]

Disclaimer: I am no fan of the ACLU. Plus I don't need their report because I see a change a-comin' and the American citizenry should be mighty worried about what's coming down the track.

What do you mean by this?

It's not that important.

You went out of your way to write that something ominous was going to happen. Seems fair to ask what you are predicting.

 

[JB Lions]

Another telltale sign of the police state, along military-like law enforcement, is the mass surveillance of the populace
What you (or me) are typing right now is most likely being tapped by the NSA, to be analyzed, possibly recorded, and assessed for 'terrorist' risk. Just like your phone calls. The US government is paranoid and wants to know everything about everybody. Who talks to whom, when and where from. Not just designated bad guys. Everyone. Simply put, you are all potential enemies of the state, and treated as such.

This level of surveillance state is unprecedented, far worse than the Stasi. Not science fiction. It's today's reality.
Where is the outrage.
Just forty years ago, Nixon fell for a petty bugging affair, but now the whole nation is being bugged and the perpetrators are getting away with it.
Remember, what they are doing is illegal and downright criminal. But the government refuses to abide by the law, this is the very definition of unaccountable, corrupt, despotic government.
The new US Constitution (now irrelevant anyways) should begin like this:
"We the Sheeople".

When I was reading your post, it reminded me of the movie with Will Smith, Enemy of The State, you even used the term in your post.

As far as militarizing our police, actually both sides of the aisle want less of it. Check the news.

As to why, there is a surplus, so they might as well use it. And I've never actually seen it in my life. Why? Because I'm not anywhere where a riot is about to bust out, or looting. I'm not in some situation where SWAT is coming.

This is really simple, they are being over-prepared because they don't want this to happen again:

"In total, 53 people were killed during the riots and over 2,000 people were injured."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

And that didn't happen because how the police were dressed or showed up. It was because people were mad and there are always some people looking to start it up.

So, I don't have a problem with police, in those type of situations being prepared.

And you can never know how it is in the U.S. by just watching videos on YouTube or reading about it. It would be silly for me to talk about Iceland to somebody that actually lives there on a day to day basis. Those are the people who really know how it is. You've seen what I posted above. I can have it set in my mind that Iceland, or Japan is this or that and post videos all day long backing that up. I could leave out all the good stuff. Of course I don't actually live there and if I ever posted I know how it is to live there, while living in another country, I should be called out on it.

Your post, goes along with a lot of your other posts in this thread. When it comes down to it, you're just paranoid. Look at the post I just quoted. You actually think the NSA doesn't have better things to do than worry about what some domainer in Iceland is saying on some domain forum?

I talked about fingerprints earlier and your fear of it. Had to go refresh my memory of what you said, and why you're scared to travel:

"For example I can easily get hold of your fingerprints or plant your DNA somewhere. I just need to collect some of your hair or saliva, or anything. You leave it on almost anything you touch. If your DNA is found on a crime scene how are you going to prove your innocence ?"

https://www.namepros.com/threads/the-nps-official-usa-political-thread.764342/page-70#post-4521312

Paranoid. It's interesting because when it comes to domaining, I probably agree with you 90%+ of the time, but then you have this paranoid side. I think you feed it by purposely looking for videos and articles about it. Look at domainace above. Went to YouTube, probably typed in United States Police State and found some videos to post in this thread. And again, I can do the same with any country. You really should get out and travel. Actually come to this country, you're not going to see armored cars riding around main street with police in riot gear. I linked earlier to what I typically see where I live.

Let me quote you again from the other page:

"Americans don't realize it yet, but their country has now become the battlefield, literally."

And you know that, sitting in Iceland? Not people that actually live here but you? Do you even realize how silly that is? So when I go downtown and see a police officer walking around in shorts = Battlefield?

In a nutshell, if you live in Japan, Iceland, Portugal, you're not qualified to know how it is to live in the U.S. or any other country you don't currently live in. I used to live in Germany back in the day, 12 years on and off but I'm not qualified to tell anybody how it is to live there now, especially to somebody that actually lives there now, like Theo. If I told Theo, Germany is this and that based on some videos or articles I read, he would probably laugh at me and rightfully so.

Missed this one - "This level of surveillance state is unprecedented, far worse than the Stasi."

My relatives on my mother's side that actually lived thru that would probably laugh at that as well. I'm not worried about my neighbors saying something to somebody and then getting round up and thrown in jail without any lawyer. Have you noticed a lot of the conspiracy theory types haven't moved? Why isn't Alex Jones living in some other country? Do you think the Stasi would have let him have a website, radio show, tv show etc. constantly going on about the government? Be real. They would make him disappear. Have you checked out a Conservative FB page lately? The things they say about the President. You think the Stasi would have let that fly? So when you compare to the Stasi, you're on some other planet with that.

 

[Kate]

When I was reading your post, it reminded me of the movie with Will Smith, Enemy of The State, you even used the term in your post.

We are there. Edward Snowden is as close as that.

As to why, there is a surplus, so they might as well use it. And I've never actually seen it in my life. Why? Because I'm not anywhere where a riot is about to bust out, or looting. I'm not in some situation where SWAT is coming.

Just as you said, they might as well use it, and they will.
The same goes for repressive laws post-9/11, the legislators don't pass bills just to allow the authorities to have the tools available 'just in case'. The tools are meant to be used and exploited whenever they are available.

You actually think the NSA doesn't have better things to do than worry about what some domainer in Iceland is saying on some domain forum?

The NSA doesn't care. They sift all the traffic they can because everybody can be a terrorist threat.
You can be certain that more once your privacy (and mine) was violated. It doesn't matter if my traffic is discarded on the spot. It should never have been intercepted in the first place.

Paranoid. It's interesting because when it comes to domaining, I probably agree with you 90%+ of the time, but then you have this paranoid side.

A measure of paranoia can be healthy. But I am not as paranoid as your rulers. I am not the one spying massively on innocent, law-abiding Americans (and foreigners).
Remember, your government is doing illegal and criminal things, they are the one should be held accountable for their actions. In any other normal country, the president would have been impeached I think. The people would not tolerate this kind of abuse. But in the US there is no limit to what the government can do.
What are you going to do about it ?

In a nutshell, if you live in Japan, Iceland, Portugal, you're not qualified to know how it is to live in the U.S. or any other country you don't currently live in.

Everybody is entitled to have an opinion about some country, even if you don't live there, or never set foot there. Not every American is necessarily well-informed or aware.
It's hard to cast a critical look on one's country from the inside. I have learned more from American expats than the US newspapers, I mean the government-aligned mainstream press.

Why isn't Alex Jones living in some other country? Do you think the Stasi would have let him have a website, radio show, tv show etc. constantly going on about the government?

This guy represents no threat at all. The fact that he is allowed to blabber about reinforces the illusion that people are free, and that free speech and dissent is respected. It is, up to a certain point. I never said the US is the most repressive country on Earth.
Have you noticed the US is much more nervous about guys like Snowden. Conspiracy theories and tinfoil hat trolls amuse the public. But exposing hard facts of serious wrongdoing like Snowden did makes Washington anxious. There is nothing more dangerous than being right when the government is wrong.

The problem with surveillance is that it inevitably breeds self-censorship. A climate of fear and distrust takes hold. You are no longer free to speak your mind if you know everything you say or write has chance of being recorded, analyzed, archived possibly forever, that your most intimate thoughts will be captured online and add up to your personal threat 'profile'. This is very Stasi-like, when you dare not say a thing in public or in private because the man (or woman) sitting next to you could be an IM (Inoffizieller Mitarbeiter) for the Stasi.

I could develop further, but this post is already long and boring enough.

 

[JB Lions]

-post removed by NSA-