The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[JB Lions]

We'll disagree on that one. Some isolated incidents, out of 812,000,000. Think about that number for a little bit. I'm sure most people have a pretty normal experience with it and understand why we have it. We haven't had any instances like 9/11 since.

Plus - TSA gets rid of full-body scanners at US airports
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/31/tsa-gets-rid-full-body-image-scanners-at-us-airports/

 

[eyedomainous]

That's right, you have the freedom to choose to leave the house, drive, travel, use credit cards, the web and or the phone.

Its also your responsibility to know the 'rules of the road' for each aspect of society you choose to engage.

When it comes to the phone the Terms Of Use state the phone company has the right to share data from your use of the service. So, again, if you don't like it... Don't Use It!

The only flawed logic here is you declaring "blanket surveillance of innocent citizens is wrong !" AFTER you point out:
- Surveillance cameras
- Automated license readers
- Travel security measures
- Credit card user profiles

If you can grasp the concept of local and State governments policing road and highway traffic, the idea of the Federal gov policing traffic on the ' global information superhighway' is really not a difficult concept.

And the next step:
- don't leave your house, to avoid the face recognition cameras
- don't drive, because there automated license plate readers on the road and your moves are monitored and recorded.
- don't travel, because you are going to be fingerprinted
- don't use credit cards because you're being tracked and profiled
- etc

To sum up: renounce all your freedoms, including the freedom to move.

I cannot accept your flawed logic, just because I use the phone doesn't mean I am not entitled to privacy. Private conversations are not part of the public record.
It's nobody's business and nobody should have the right to monitor my communications, unless of course there is a surveillance warrant specifically issued against me, because there is compelling evidence I have committed a crime. But blanket surveillance of innocent citizens is wrong !

 

[Kate]

But on behalf of the United States, I want to apologize for the abuse your little thumbs had to go thru, getting into the country. I know it must have been traumatic.

I will not allow any government to fingerprint me like a criminal.

But since you are OK with it, I have good news for you: it's going to be your turn very soon.
Do you really think Americans are going to be exempted forever ? Of course not, the terrocrats just need another Dudaev (American terrorist) as a pretext to ram it down the throat of the American people.
Everybody will be 'enrolled', such is the predictable 'logic' of the system.
It's written on the wall, so mark my words.
And remember, 'they' are only getting started.

Have a good life, slave

 

[JB Lions]

Slave? The only slave here would be you, because you're trapped by your own paranoia and fear. One of the things I like to do is travel and some countries just require it - http://www.budgettravel.com/blog/news-europe-may-start-fingerprinting-visitors,9661/ Good chance more in the future, even some you might want to go to.

But you can stay trapped in Iceland.

 

[Kate]

I think the most paranoid entity out there is the US tapping like crazy, not the innocent, law-abiding citizens who balk at the overreach of big government.
It is also ironic that Snowden has 'spying' charges brought against him, while he denounced the illegal spying going on. The US government is afraid that more people like him will step up and expose the truth. Then it will become more difficult for citizens like you to sweep the inconvenient reality under the rug and keep making up excuses. It's not like people have absolutely no idea of what's going on. They don't care until it's too late (for them).
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.

http://www.budgettravel.com/blog/news-europe-may-start-fingerprinting-visitors,9661/

Since we do the same to them, and other countries do it as well, we can't be too surprised.

As you can see your own medicine is coming back to you.
At least I hope you're feeling safe now.

PS: be happy you are not among those unfortunate enough to be on the no-fly list or the other terrorist watch lists that run in parallel.
Another land of the free program.

 

[enlytend]

Plus - TSA gets rid of full-body scanners at US airports
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...t-us-airports/

Good! They finally came to their senses about that travesty. $140 million lesson learned.

(But if they were still in service, I bet you'd be defending the practice )

 

[JB Lions]

Good! They finally came to their senses about that travesty. $140 million lesson learned.

(But if they were still in service, I bet you'd be defending the practice )

They are still in service at some places, at least a couple of weeks ago and the 2 airports I was at. It's really not a big deal to me, it's just a scan.

As you can see your own medicine is coming back to you.
At least I hope you're feeling safe now.

PS: be happy you are not among those unfortunate enough to be on the no-fly list or the other terrorist watch lists that run in parallel.
Another land of the free program.

Again, not a big deal to me. Or to most people. You're worried about fingerprints and government in your life, when you have government run healthcare in your country, no room for private enterprise. And I'm sure they can get more than fingerprints from you.

And go back to traveling. If this becomes the norm everywhere, do you just hang out in your own country the rest of your life? Be a shut in? Scared to travel anywhere because they might fingerprint you or scan you? That's free?

 

[Theo Goodman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6NMr2VrhmFI
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6NMr2VrhmFI?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

---------- Post added at 08:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6NMr2VrhmFI

 

[RaiderGirl]

It's almost impossible to travel abroad and not be fingerprinted...

If they can match up a fingerprint of a murderer or terrorist and capture him at the risk of offending or inconveniencing others then so be it... It's the society we live in today,

It's not like were living in a perfect world where everyone is peace loving and honest, it's those who are NOT that ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[Kate]

Not only that.

License plate readers that track your moves across the state, and archive the data possibly forever.
Not to mention your mobile phone that is a beacon device, but at least you can switch it off.
Then the facial recognition cameras. If you do not have privacy you are not free. If you are not allowed a measure of anonymity you are not free either.
Orwell was spot on in his predictions, the only difference is that instead of one Big Brother we have a myriad of Little Brothers.

Unfortunately, we are heading toward a society that is less free and less secure. Yes, we are losing on both counts and that is perfectly normal. Security vs privacy is a false trade-off and a scam.
For example I can easily get hold of your fingerprints or plant your DNA somewhere. I just need to collect some of your hair or saliva, or anything. You leave it on almost anything you touch.
If your DNA is found on a crime scene how are you going to prove your innocence ? Your fingerprints being found somewhere means nothing as such, but makes you a suspect. The burden of the proof is reversed when everyone is deemed a suspect, a potential criminal.

There is one big problem. You are assuming that the government is doing all that for your safety, but it is also to control the masses. And it's about money too. Some companies are making lots of money on the destruction of your privacy. Follow the money always. Hint: it's more or less the same companies that thrive on wars and military expenditures.


Now something different. In Italy, if you want to use the Internet at a cybercafé you need to show ID. Yes, just like in China.
Think about if for a minute. You have a clerk that is not a sworn civil servant, who possibly changes jobs every 6 months and you must entrust that person with a copy of your passport, that will be kept in a drawer and almost as secure as a piece of trash.
And you wonder why identity theft is so prevalent ? Seriously ?

It's because government is the problem, not the solution. The lawmakers don't care about your privacy.
The laws tend to make things worse for all of us, and people are not seeing the bigger picture. The irony is that they look to the government like some benevolent entity that is going to take care of it all. Yeah right.

The Western world is paranoid and sick, and the gullible voters are drinking the Koolaid that is handed to them, hence committing suicide.

 

[DU]

If they can match up a fingerprint of a murderer or terrorist and capture him at the risk of offending or inconveniencing others then so be it... It's the society we live in today,

Are you sure that's the goal?

It's not like were living in a perfect world where everyone is peace loving and honest, it's those who are NOT that ruin it for the rest of us.

Perhaps it's not "everyone" that's ruining it but just the powers that be?

 

[verbster]

Since the John Birch Society (JBS) came up in the Zimmerman thread here in the Break Room, I was surprised to read several several articles are floating around comparing the Tea Party as a resurrection of the JBS, but maybe it's a better match for Palin's Freedom Party. After all, the tea party is not quite ultra-conservative enough.

 

[eyedomainous]

The only thing I learned from the Snowden data release was the actual name of the program(s).

The funny thing about the outrage is the general public did not know a "crime" was being perpetrated against them until they were told.

If you don't know your freedoms were taken, or being violated, until the media informs you, did you really have those freedoms? Or, did the 'kool aid' give you an illusion of freedoms.

Freedom is the kool aid... that flows from, and becomes one's, Constitution. Its the sales pitch from the "1%" of 1776. Nearly half of which, based on the signatures, were slave owners.

The irony of the Snowden data, is it underscores the value of learning pertinent information you do not know -hence the rational for spying.

Now its a question of Whose spy is it? When Snowden turns spy on the government, 'for the people', that o'k -the people are cool with that. But when Snowden spied on people for the Gov, that's Not Cool!

This is a classic ethical dilema of using info from double agents; its not cool to spy on people... unless the spy brings your people the data.

Also, using The Constitution as a shield works best when one follows its directive to be a citizen guardian of freedoms, before they are lost.

Now, The People want Hearings... and a few heads to roll. Then they will feel their freedoms have been restored, and will be protected.

So whine a bit longer and louder and you'll get to jug down more Freedom Kool Aid -then you'll be all right... at least until you get pissed by the next 'Snowden'.

Then its rinse and repeat. We're humans in the age of personal global communications technology.

Its Dr. Strangelove 2.0 -- How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Big Data.

 

[DU]

Its Dr. Strangelove 2.0 -- How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Big Data.

I'm going to use that...

 

[verbster]

Now, The People want Hearings... and a few heads to roll. Then they will feel their freedoms have been restored, and will be protected.

So whine a bit longer and louder and you'll get to jug down more Freedom Kool Aid -then you'll be all right... at least until you get pissed by the next 'Snowden'.

Then its rinse and repeat. We're humans in the age of personal global communications technology.

Its Dr. Strangelove 2.0 -- How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Big Data.

I'm not sure Most people feel any loss of freedom other than thinking they've lost some. Until it has a tangible effect, it's just words with no meaning.

 

[Domainace]

Funny. In this interview, Snowden says his biggest fear is that he'll release the info and nothing will change. By "funny," of course, I mean sad.

 

[Kate]

If you don't know your freedoms were taken, or being violated, until the media informs you, did you really have those freedoms? Or, did the 'kool aid' give you an illusion of freedoms.

In general the media do a poor job of informing people on the state of affairs.
Not that I need media reports to be aware, any sane individual unless blind and deaf should realize there are many things that are very wrong. The visible tip of the iceberg being disturbing enough. But people tend to rationalize everything, ignore the bad omens, hope for the best and make excuses - then it becomes denial.
We all understand there is no perfect world, but what's interesting here is:
- the scale of the violations
- there is a conspiracy

As I have said, many people just don't care because, they don't know what freedom is. They would have been equally happy living in the former USSR if it weren't for the comfort.
The great achievement of the 'system' is that most believe they are FREE. To some extent, that is true, but big chunks of freedom are being taken away from you nonetheless.
A long leash around your neck doesn't mean you are 'free', it just means you are better off than another slave.

 

[verbster]

As I have said, many people just don't care because, they don't know what freedom is. They would have been equally happy living in the former USSR if it weren't for the comfort.

You don't think that's a bit over the top?

 

[Kate]

A little bit.

 

[Theo Goodman]