The religious discussion thread

[Archangel]

This thread was created to bring a local new story to light, which can be viewed below:

JACKSON, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio school district decided Tuesday night to keep a portrait of Jesus hanging in the school where it's been 65 years, denying a federal lawsuit's claim the portrait's display unconstitutionally promotes religion in a public school.

The Jackson City Schools board offered a constitutional justification of its own in voting 4-0 to keep the portrait up in its middle school, saying it must protect students' free speech rights. The vote drew cheers and applause from the dozens of people gathered in the elementary school gymnasium.

Read all of it here: http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-school-b...xzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0A1Rlc3RfQUZD;_ylv=3

I posted his here @ NP to see what ppl had to say on the issue. As it turns out, this sparked many debates. I've considered closing this thread but after multiple suggestions, I decided to keep it open. Feel free to join in the topics but per forum rules, please refrain from obscene, threatening, rude, or insulting posts.

 

[GILSAN]

"Christianity is not in conflict all over the world, with other religions, as Islam is." What wars and military actions has the US engaged in in the last 20 years? What was their religion? Why is it we chose to invade? And what has the sacrifice of soldiers and civilians on both sides brought us?

You tell me the answer to those questions

Now could you explain what Porto haters are?
nah...something to keep you thinking about.

No need to any more. DU has already answered that question

 

[verbster]

here's an example of religious/moral politics creeping into state government. Here is a list of general state license plates available in Alaska. Notice anything out of balance?

http://www.doa.alaska.gov/dmv/PlateGallery/index.htm

 

[DU]

The color balance ?

Standard Yellow looks Orange to me.

 

[verbster]

The color balance ?

Standard Yellow looks Orange to me.

No, a pumpkin is still a pumpkin by any name.

 

[GILSAN]

here's an example of religious/moral politics creeping into state government. Here is a list of general state license plates available in Alaska. Notice anything out of balance?

http://www.doa.alaska.gov/dmv/PlateGallery/index.htm

So what are you complaining about. The fact that there is no "Star and Crescent Moon" number plate, so as not to offend Muslims?

 

[verbster]

So what are you complaining about. The fact that there is no "Star and Crescent Moon" number plate, so as not to offend Muslims?

If you are truly challenged about this, I'll help you. I'm simply trying to point out that states should be as neutral as possible in certain areas that address morality, religion, politics and endorsements of one organization or business over another. I would prefer the General Categories of available license plates stay away from these types of plates for a couple of reasons. 1. If you look at he ugliness coming form justa few of the threads that address religion, politics, morality and such in this forum, it's obvious that individual beliefs are a times very powerful and unforgiving.

All that will come from some of these plates will be anger and possibly worse. Road rage is bad enough without adding fuel to the fire. For some people, jus seeing bumper stickers edorsing the a political candidate they don't like is enough to raise a finger. Pair that with a plate message that goes against a road-rager's sense of morality and who knows how far things may get out of hand.

2. If you are going to have a "Pro Coice" plate, there shoould be a "Pro Life" plate, too. In this case there is a "Pro Life" plate and no "Pro Choice" plate. Without one, it could be inferred that the State of Alaska is using public funds to endorse one side of a political agenda without recourse.

3. Same goes for organiations and private businesses. Where is the fairness in offering a National Rifle Association plate but not one that supports gun control?

My own opinion is that the plates should stick to showing the beauty and diversity of the state, not antagonizing citizens by displaying one side of oa religious/moral issue. If someone feels like they must display a political/moral/religious statement of expression, slap on a bumper sticker.

Once a certain boundary is crossed, it gets worse and worse. Not all viewpoints will ever be offered. I simply don't believe a state should put themselves in this situation.

 

[GILSAN]

If you are truly challenged about this, I'll help you. I'm simply trying to point out that states should be as neutral as possible in certain areas that address morality, religion, politics and endorsements of one organization or business over another. I would prefer the General Categories of available license plates stay away from these types of plates for a couple of reasons. 1. If you look at he ugliness coming form justa few of the threads that address religion, politics, morality and such in this forum, it's obvious that individual beliefs are a times very powerful and unforgiving.

All that will come from some of these plates will be anger and possibly worse. Road rage is bad enough without adding fuel to the fire. For some people, jus seeing bumper stickers edorsing the a political candidate they don't like is enough to raise a finger. Pair that with a plate message that goes against a road-rager's sense of morality and who knows how far things may get out of hand.

2. If you are going to have a "Pro Coice" plate, there shoould be a "Pro Life" plate, too. In this case there is a "Pro Life" plate and no "Pro Choice" plate. Without one, it could be inferred that the State of Alaska is using public funds to endorse one side of a political agenda without recourse.

3. Same goes for organiations and private businesses. Where is the fairness in offering a National Rifle Association plate but not one that supports gun control?

My own opinion is that the plates should stick to showing the beauty and diversity of the state, not antagonizing citizens by displaying one side of oa religious/moral issue. If someone feels like they must display a political/moral/religious statement of expression, slap on a bumper sticker.

Once a certain boundary is crossed, it gets worse and worse. Not all viewpoints will ever be offered. I simply don't believe a state should put themselves in this situation.

So who decides to have all these different types of number plates? The local government? Or is someone making lots of money from it?

Here in Europe automobile number plates is a pretty straight forward thing. Basically a simple design that identifies what country it is, the year + month the car was manufactured (in Portugal at least) + a number. That's it.

Not as pretty as the ones in the US. I remember when I lived in California they had a bear on the plates, but they also had some very personalized ones. The one that has always remained in my memory, is a number plate "F-U-2"

 

[verbster]

So who decides to have all these different types of number plates? The local government? Or is someone making lots of money from it?

The Alaska State Legislature nominates and votes on styles and rules of license plates. The legislature is mostly Republican, which explains the current list of imbalanced choices.

 

[GILSAN]

The Alaska State Legislature nominates and votes on styles and rules of license plates. The legislature is mostly Republican, which explains the current list of imbalanced choices.

Hmmmmm. so it's the Republicans fault. How about if the Democrats were in, would they approve "Planned Parenthood", "Legalize Gay Marriage" or "Obama Care" license plates? And if they did, would you be OK with it?

BTW, does this happen in other states?

 

[verbster]

Hmmmmm. so it's the Republicans fault. How about if the Democrats were in, would they approve "Planned Parenthood", "Legalize Gay Marriage" or "Obama Care" license plates? And if they did, would you be OK with it?

BTW, does this happen in other states?

Jeez. You really can't see it, can you? You can't letgo of your combative paranoia even for a few minutes to look at the cause of a problem. It's like you're in auto-pilot mode to disagree with anything said by anyone you have labeled a Democrat or lefty. i specifically said this was an example of an unbalanced action by a state. And I made it clear I would rather states did not get involved like this. And i made it clear that if they do, there needs to be equal opportunity representation of either side of an issue. it's not the issue that is the problem, it's the people on either sidewho will stop at nothing to put their views first. if the Democrats were in the majority, I would hope they would end this practice, or if that wasn't possible, to issue the other side of the issues.

 

[GILSAN]

Jeez. You really can't see it, can you? You can't letgo of your combative paranoia even for a few minutes to look at the cause of a problem. It's like you're in auto-pilot mode to disagree with anything said by anyone you have labeled a Democrat or lefty. i specifically said this was an example of an unbalanced action by a state. And I made it clear I would rather states did not get involved like this. And i made it clear that if they do, there needs to be equal opportunity representation of either side of an issue. it's not the issue that is the problem, it's the people on either sidewho will stop at nothing to put their views first. if the Democrats were in the majority, I would hope they would end this practice, or if that wasn't possible, to issue the other side of the issues.

"combative paranoia", "in auto-pilot mode to disagree" :lol:
You bought up the Republican thing first and I hit back with my combative paranoia.

You never answered my questions. Of course you're not obliged to

Lets face it most of those politicians in Washington and many on a local level, are corrupt and have been bought by Big Banks and Big Corporations. They don't fight for your rights, they fight for those who pay them.

And this is a world wide thing. Politicians here are just as corrupt as the American ones and if I could I'd ship them all in a container ship and have them dropped off in the North coast of Alaska and feed them to the Polar bears.

But on second thoughts it may not be such a good idea after all because the poor Polar bears would probably die of food poisoning.

 

[verbster]

"combative paranoia", "in auto-pilot mode to disagree" :lol:
You bought up the Republican thing first and I hit back with my combative paranoia.

You never answered my questions. Of course you're not obliged to

Lets face it most of those politicians in Washington and many on a local level, are corrupt and have been bought by Big Banks and Big Corporations. They don't fight for your rights, they fight for those who pay them.

And this is a world wide thing. Politicians here are just as corrupt as the American ones and if I could I'd ship them all in a container ship and have them dropped off in the North coast of Alaska and feed them to the Polar bears.

But on second thoughts it may not be such a good idea after all because the poor Polar bears would probably die of food poisoning.

I haven't answered your questions? You mean the questions I asked you, hoping that some factual examples might somehow turn the light switch on in your cognition attic?

And you asked who made up these plates; I answered your question: they were created and passed by the Republican majority Alaskan legislature. And yes, many are corrupt. Alaska has probably had the most documented cases of corruption of any state, including those with populations 20 times greater. Congressmen get convicted of bribery, infidelity, embezzlement, you name it, and Alaskans keep electing them. It's embarrassing,

What else do you want me to answer for you that you are incapable of Googling? The wars in Afghanistan, Iraq (including what spilled over into Pakistan and Kuwait)? Whether you believe we had cause to do so or not, we invaded them. We were the aggressors and since we are considered a Christian nation, it's pretty easy to say that we invaded Muslim countries. And in lieu of a serious reason, it might be looked upon as a war of religious bigotry and/or religious arrogance.

On the other hand, N. Korea has declared war on us. We know they have nukes that can reach our allies and maybe us, but do you see us invading them or making a pre-emptive strike? Why not? They are much more dangerous, but they aren't Muslim, so what gives?

I don't know how much actual experience you've had with Muslims, but I lived in the Middle East for three years and got a pretty good understanding of their culture, bad and good. I can tell you that your claims of extremist views of gays is way off the mark. There's a ton of male/male sex that goes on, mostly with younger guys, 14 - 25. It's incredibly difficult for young men to be with Arabic women, so they turn to other males for sex. And that's all it is, almost always. Given a choice of being with a man or a woman, the woman wins hands down. That's why I describe it as male/male sex, not homosexual sex where there is a preference for males.

 

[DU]

The one that has always remained in my memory, is a number plate "F-U-2"

I saw a Ferrari the other day with "FAST MFR" but my favorite:

It was allegedly randomly selected.

 

[GILSAN]

Congressmen get convicted of bribery, infidelity, embezzlement, you name it, and Alaskans keep electing them. It's embarrassing,

Seems like that's been happening all over the country, with both parties for donkeys years.

On the other hand, N. Korea has declared war on us. We know they have nukes that can reach our allies and maybe us, but do you see us invading them or making a pre-emptive strike? Why not? They are much more dangerous, but they aren't Muslim, so what gives?

To me N. Korea looks more like a spoilt brat having a tantrum because of sanctions implemented against them. If they are stupid enough to start something against S. Korea and Japan which they have threatened to hit first, they will be annihilated. I think they're just making a lot of noise to try and get sanctions lifted.

I don't know how much actual experience you've had with Muslims, but I lived in the Middle East for three years and got a pretty good understanding of their culture, bad and good. I can tell you that your claims of extremist views of gays is way off the mark. There's a ton of male/male sex that goes on, mostly with younger guys, 14 - 25. It's incredibly difficult for young men to be with Arabic women, so they turn to other males for sex. And that's all it is, almost always. Given a choice of being with a man or a woman, the woman wins hands down. That's why I describe it as male/male sex, not homosexual sex where there is a preference for males.

What Muslims do in their countries is their business even though I don't agree with a lot of what they believe in, but when they immigrate to other countries and try to force their cultural and especially religious ideas onto others then it is my business.

Things like: Honour killings, where Muslim women are brutalized and murdered by members of their own family.

Or the organized gangs of Muslim men exploiting and raping underage girls in the UK, France and many other countries in Europe where illegal Muslim immigration has skyrocketed.

Or Muslims allowed to pray in the streets while blocking traffic.

The Police and other authorities turning a blind eye to genital mutilation, especially in the UK

Sharia courts dehumanizing women.

The imposition of Halal only food on the population without their knowledge or consent.

Wipe out the Jews, slay the infidels and gays, etc. etc.

Yeah, such a tolerant religion.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJ6FpabknY"]Ha Ha Islamophobia - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Archangel]

I've noticed this long ago. And he calls EVERYONE a Dem/Lefty if they don't agree with him. There are more agendas out there than "Dems" ya know, Gilsan?

Jeez. You really can't see it, can you? You can't letgo of your combative paranoia even for a few minutes to look at the cause of a problem. It's like you're in auto-pilot mode to disagree with anything said by anyone you have labeled a Democrat or lefty.

 

[DU]

I've noticed this long ago. And he calls EVERYONE a Dem/Lefty if they don't agree with him. There are more agendas out there than "Dems" ya know, Gilsan?

Socialist. :lol:

 

[firefly]

There is no God!

/thread

 

[verbster]

There is no God!

/thread

Prove it, though.

 

[firefly]

Prove it, though.

Since my previous post number is 392, and you guys have been banging on about it for so time now, I believe the burdon of proof belongs to those who came before me.

I don't mind people believing in fairytales, it's all good, I quite like a few myself.

 

[DU]

There is no God!

/thread

About time someone came along and cleared it all up!

 

[verbster]

Since my previous post number is 392, and you guys have been banging on about it for so time now, I believe the burdon of proof belongs to those who came before me.

I don't mind people believing in fairytales, it's all good, I quite like a few myself.

I see. For a minute there, I thought you might have something worthwhile to contribute.

 

[firefly]

I see. For a minute there, I thought you might have something worthwhile to contribute.

Nothing worthwhile to be had arguing over fiction. Too much has already been said and done in this world in the name of fiction.

Religion is, and has always been, nothing more than a tool to manipulate and control the masses. Religion has been used as an excuse or a reason by those who wheel out the idea of faith in a non existent God to justify doing terrible things to others.

These sort of threads become nothing more than a never ending cirlce between faith and logic. It doesn't matter what I add (of value or not) because people will choose one or another regardless of what you or I have said.

The difference is that while I say there is no God, I don't intend to turn anyone from their beliefs, whereas, most people that believe in God always seem hell bent on making me believe that the fairytale is true.

To this date, no one has ever given me concrete proof of the existence of God, or any almighty that you would like to choose. A whole lot of people with faith doesn't prove anything and neither does most of the rubbish rolled out by the religious community.

Deary me, I knew I should have not irreverently posted what I did since I have little interest in things that don't exist.

Worthwhile??? Prove to me beyond all reasonable doubt that there is any type of God and I will post something worthwhile in this thread.

 

[DU]

 

[verbster]

Nothing worthwhile to be had arguing over fiction. Too much has already been said and done in this world in the name of fiction.

Religion is, and has always been, nothing more than a tool to manipulate and control the masses. Religion has been used as an excuse or a reason by those who wheel out the idea of faith in a non existent God to justify doing terrible things to others.

These sort of threads become nothing more than a never ending cirlce between faith and logic. It doesn't matter what I add (of value or not) because people will choose one or another regardless of what you or I have said.

The difference is that while I say there is no God, I don't intend to turn anyone from their beliefs, whereas, most people that believe in God always seem hell bent on making me believe that the fairytale is true.

To this date, no one has ever given me concrete proof of the existence of God, or any almighty that you would like to choose. A whole lot of people with faith doesn't prove anything and neither does most of the rubbish rolled out by the religious community.

Deary me, I knew I should have not irreverently posted what I did since I have little interest in things that don't exist.

Worthwhile??? Prove to me beyond all reasonable doubt that there is any type of God and I will post something worthwhile in this thread.

Considering I'm not convinced there is a God like most people envision, it would be a trick indeed to prove there is an all mighty beyond doubt. Guess I could always set a bush on fire and talk in a deep voice. Those crude special effects seemed to work once upon a time, but probably aren't up to snuff in the digital age. I guess I'll just settle for infinity in all its aspects that I don't hope to understand, but still appreciate the analogy of infinite monkeys when it comes to the unavoidable creation of life (and I'm not talking babies here). That'll have to be my God for now until something better comes up. . . . that and the smell of flowers and grass in the early morning.

 

[Archangel]

I've recently seen this. It's almost heartbreaking. I'm a believer in religion but some ppl just need to understand that prayer doesn't always work. Saddest of all: they have other kids.

A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.

Read the full thing here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/2nd-child-pa-couple-dies-praying-19020607