The LLLL.com sales and discussion thread

[italiandragon]

Hello, I think it would be pretty useful to keep track of all LLLL.com sales , even the little ones under $100 so that , pretty soon , when the available LLLL.com will be finished , we`ll have a better idea on market prices.

It is important that these sales are confirmed. So before to post, make sure payment went OK.

I will start with todays` Sedo confirmed sales:

FISE.com 2,700 Euros
TSRT.com US $760
VEUP.com US $1,700


Also, I found interesting to see this average LLLL, getting bids up to $51 and reserve not me. It says it all.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...110154111735_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40QQfviZ1

 

[italiandragon]

and, since I do follow pretty much all financial markets, Forex and other stuff, why don`t you go around telling that GOLD is weakening so everybody buying it is a fool?

Because it did weak....and I could even point you my posts about it on the Forex forums I write on...but I don`t like to advertise too much, so only will if you ask.


Once it was making a new high everyday in November, I had to read all BS of people telling Gold is going to reach $2,000....

Now all those people are gone....disappeared.

I did not buy it. I am waiting the pullback to $1,000 area as I know how the market moves....the fools are the ones thinking the markets can keep just going up without retracements in price.

Just like housing bubble, demand and offer make the price, bubbles do happen but if there is a need then once the bubble has busted, wise investors silently shop.

LLL.com in 2002 were as cheap a few hundreds $ , if you read then, there were people saying it was crazy....yet the prices went up and up....but expecting then every month they just go up is just fool.

Yet I bet then there would a fight like sharks over fresh meat if any LLL.com would be for sale at $500 today.

And, with that US dollar going down the drain, between 10 years when the Usa economy will be down much more than where it is now, Us prices will be higher due to inflation....or simply we`ll have Eur or AUD prices...because I am not going to sell in USD once that one start going the way I expect by 2020.

Oh...yes, the Gold buyers...the fools who buy today will probably feel sorry by then....uhm....maybe not.

 

[thetruman]

guys I would like to spend a few word on Snoop . He is experienced, owns some excellent domains and HIS analysis are personal and give a different point of view.
At the same time he was correct 6 monthes ago on his predictions.(this doesn't mean he will be correct for the future);you can shopping on ebay for LLLL.COM at less then 10$ a pop currently. So he deserved my respect and by any mean you can tell that he is acting in bad faith.
Iknow Snoop you do not need any lawyer, but just wanted to input my 2c

 

[italiandragon]

guys I would like to spend a few word on Snoop . He is experienced, owns some excellent domains and HIS analysis are personal and give a different point of view.
At the same time he was correct 6 monthes ago on his predictions.(this doesn't mean he will be correct for the future);you can shopping on ebay for LLLL.COM at less then 5$ a pop currently. So he deserved my respect and by any mean you can tell that he is acting in bad faith.
Iknow Snoop you do not need any lawyer, but just wanted to input my 2c

There has been a financial MELTDOWN if you did not notice.

LEHMAN BROTHERS: GONE

GENERAL MOTORS : GONE

TONS OF MINOR US BANKS: GONE

UNICREDIT BANK (ITALY): NEARLY GONE

DETROIT HOUSING MARKET: JUST GOOGLE IT...

MAIN STOCK MARKETS COLLAPSED AN AVERAGE OF 50 % (SOME MORE) FROM THE 2007 TOPS TO THE MARCH 2009 LOW.

TONS OF PEOPLE HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN EATING OR PAYING BILLS WORLDWIDE BECAUSE THEY LOST EVERYTHING.

In such economic scenario, expecting that domain names would keep value was insane.

But if I go and want a LLLL.com at BuyDomains, they won`t sell it to me for $5.

Some of these names will sell for nearly zero because people are having liquidity problems. It`s normal. In the short term, market go up and down.

I limited my posting on this forum because I am sick of people looking the short term flip.

I look at the big picture. The long term.

10 years renewal costs me $75 for a LLLL.com

But even assuming no revenue (which happens only if you don`t develop them at all), I`m confident that within 10 years I can get an offer well beyond that. Unfortunately I am not wealthy like BuyDomains otherwise I would have cleaned the lot of all cheap sales.

It is a bet for sure like any investment. No guarantee of return. I do not gamble much but this is one I feel good about it.

I hope these posts will be available to read in 2020 and I will be happy to admit if I was a fool.

 

[Soofi]

guys I would like to spend a few word on Snoop . He is experienced, owns some excellent domains and HIS analysis are personal and give a different point of view.
At the same time he was correct 6 monthes ago on his predictions.(this doesn't mean he will be correct for the future);you can shopping on ebay for LLLL.COM at less then 10$ a pop currently. So he deserved my respect and by any mean you can tell that he is acting in bad faith.
Iknow Snoop you do not need any lawyer, but just wanted to input my 2c

Snoopy has been blabbering about buyout brakdown for quite sometime now, so it aint really a prediction and he just disappears when there are handful of good sales posted in this thread. Why? because he has nothing to say about them, and all he yaps about is lower end LLLL,com's held by quick flippers who dont have too much of liquid in their paypal or bank account to support renewals. So what they end up doing is sell 'em cheap on ebay or forums, otherwise just let 'em go and someone else picks 'em..

Buyout has witheld itself as dropped LLLL,com's get picked up in like a flash.. and again Snoopy has nothing much to say about those pickups!!!

 

[Semtex]

Buyout has witheld itself as dropped LLLL,com's get picked up in like a flash.. and again Snoopy has nothing much to say about those pickups!!!

He doesn't say much about the buyout because he thought it would have failed back in November. As long as other registrars are buying them, we won't see a failure anytime soon.

 

[Soofi]

He doesn't say much about the buyout because he thought it would have failed back in November. As long as other registrars are buying them, we won't see a failure anytime soon.

I'm sure he will have alot more time to make nonsensical posts around forums now, since he has sold off DS!!

 

[Kate]

Buyout has witheld itself as dropped LLLL,com's get picked up in like a flash.. and again Snoopy has nothing much to say about those pickups!!!

What kind of buyout are we talking about exactly ? An artificial one sustained by domainers, like the LLL.us/.biz/.info buyouts ?
I would not say the fundamentals are that healthy and rosy.

 

[Soofi]

What kind of buyout are we talking about exactly ? An artificial one sustained by domainers, like the LLL.us/.biz/.info buyouts ?
I would not say the fundamentals are that healthy and rosy.

held by domainers, but they're also selling it to end-users for nice profit..

 

[SlimPickins]

i am really sooooo tired of this buyout discussion. i have had potential endusers walk away from deals based on my price, NOT the fact that ALL 4-letter.coms were or were not sold out, and I have sold domains at my price based on their want/need REGARDLESS of whether all other (irrelevant and therefore unimportant) LLLL's were regged or not.

I see zero point in pushing for/hoping that skeptics (such as snoop) will vocalize that the llll market is "full steam ahead".... and don't see why that would matter. However (and I do NOT know Snoop at all), based on his posts here, I truly believe that if the market were to show "significant" and "consistent" shifts he would acknowledge it. That's just my take on him though. I guess all I am hoping for is that people keep doing what they are doing.... posting the rosy and the gray, the highs of enduser sales/inspiring aftermarked sales vs. ebay/forum clearance prices and not bother about convincing(/attacking) anyone else whether it is a market worth investing in or not..... although I might take a skeptics post into consideration and diversify my investments more, I certainly would not dismiss the validity of the LLLL market potential and run away... but also see no real benefit (for me) in convincing them that it IS a solid market for them to invest in...... at the end of the day, who cares where Snoop puts his money? If YOU do, you should be more concerned about that then the stability of the llll market / buyout imho....

 

[Kate]

If LLLL.com were selling like hot cakes, there would much fewer drops.
Again, I don't care, it all boils down to ROI in the end. But if domainers sustain the buyout to maintain 'confidence' in the reseller market they are fooling nobody but themselves.

i am really sooooo tired of this buyout discussion. i have had potential endusers walk away from deals based on my price, NOT the fact that ALL 4-letter.coms were or were not sold out, and I have sold domains at my price based on their want/need REGARDLESS of whether all other (irrelevant and therefore unimportant) LLLL's were regged or not.

Agree. Same here. I've sold LLL.ccTLD in non-buyout markets as well.

 

[snoop]

MAIN STOCK MARKETS COLLAPSED AN AVERAGE OF 50 % (SOME MORE) FROM THE 2007 TOPS TO THE MARCH 2009 LOW.

The thing is things have started to recover, the stock market has picked up 50% of of its losses after bottoming a year ago, confidence is up, unemployment is falling. How are things faring on the domain front? Let's be honest here...Not so good. How about LLLL.com? People are getting mudered on the cheap names because of reg fees and the the high quality stuff is hitting fresh lows, $76 for a quad premium??

Personally I would put a question market next to domain prices right now. The best course of action in a falling market it to be taking some money off the table in my view, personally I've been doing that for 2 years. When a market shows real signs of strength, that is the time to get in. Otherwise if the market keep falling and you keep buying you'll end up with no cash and losses on a whole lot of domains.

 

[Dotmainer]

I think you all are talking about reseller pricing ?!
Why most people want END-user sales but talk so much about reseller prices ?



-

 

[snoop]

Why most people want END-user sales but talk so much about reseller prices ?

-

Because when most people want to sell it is usually the reseller market they are selling into. It isn't as simple as saying (as some do) "buy into the reseller market, sell into the enduser market", most names won't sell that way unless you are running around doing alot of work for each sale. The enduser market is mainly about the long odds sale. Reseller prices means realistically what you can get for your names.

 

[vlad74]

Because when most people want to sell it is usually the reseller market they are selling into. It isn't as simple as saying (as some do) "buy into the reseller market, sell into the enduser market", most names won't sell that way unless you are running around doing alot of work for each sale. The enduser market is mainly about the long odds sale. Reseller prices means realistically what you can get for your names.

Snoop,

if there were only reseller market, you were right.

But enduser market exists:lala:. I see surge in my domain sales starting from september 2009. I sold several domains for $300 - $500 which I picked earlier that year for just for $10-$20. I sold several LLLL (.org, .biz, .com) for $xxx (have not sold any LLLL.net over the last months though). In January 2010 I sold two LLLL.com (tripple premium each). I did not do any work, buyers contacted me through sedo.

I do not sell LLLL.com on reseller market (except for one sale in March 2009 when I needed some additional funds to fund purchase of one of my projects), it is wasted money at current conditions, you are right. But inflows from enduser sales allow me to keep and expand my portfolio. And if the market will improve eventually in 3 or 4 years, I will be in a better position than those running after the leaving train.

I also remember, I bought a quad premium from Lorenzo in 2008, I sold it by the end of 2008 to an enduser, some bank I think (with nice profit of course). I bought another quad from Daniel around a year ago for under $200, and sold it later on sedo for $900+

However, I support Snoop's scenario, the best domains I was buying in the first half 2009 when everyone was dropping everything, thus I will from now on become a Snoop supporter. It is fun to pick gems from panicking droppers and sellers

 

[snoop]

But enduser market exists:lala:. I see surge in my domain sales starting from september 2009.

Personally I think the enduser market has held up better than the reseller market, haven't noticed any real pickup though myself. I think it just hasn't declined as much, probably because it was never highly inflated like the reseller market.

But inflows from enduser sales allow me to keep and expand my portfolio.

The thing is though if everyone else were seeing the same kind of thing (profitability from their LLLL.com porfolios) those reseller prices would have picked up. People wouldn't be selling into that market at reg fee type prices and would be keen to buy.

And if the market will improve eventually in 3 or 4 years, I will be in a better position than those running after the leaving train.

I disagree with the theory of this, if the market takes say 3-4 years to improve that will be 3-4 years of wasted reg fees + losses from any further declines in values. I think the people who have taken on cash would be in a better position if things started to improve after that timeframe.

 

[DomainTalker]

Personally I would put a question market next to domain prices right now.

The best course of action in a falling market it to be taking some money off the table

Well, it depends on your time-horizon - and, what you can financially support.


The greatest future potential profits is a precisely opposite strategy - IF you can afford it....ie buy quality in a falling (or fallen) market....then, hold for as long as it takes (years, if necessary).....Sell that quality name, later, into a rising (or risen) market.


On this scenario, it matters less that you buy at a moment where the price has fallen from its peak - but, maybe, still falls further, in the shorter term.....You hold all the way through further falls in price, if necessary, then, profit on the rise in value (which can be fast, and very large) when the market cycle turns again (all markets go in cycles).

Again, on this strategy, you seek only the highest quality you can afford...ideally, names that would never ordinarily become available.


This does depend on having enough financial resources. But, its a huge wealth-builder, if you can do it.


If you can't afford that strategy, then, the best strategy is to be very selective about the names you do buy.....and, pick the timing of market trends, and turning points, more accurately.....including, as snoop says, taking money off the table in a market that's still falling (because you can't afford to hold a name long enough to await the full decline, then recovery).

Also, if you buy only quality, then you increase your chances of being able to sell it faster (at a better price), than if you don't buy quality. Its better, imo, to buy 2 LLLL's that are high quality, than, to buy 20 very poor quality.


I believe in cycles. All business is cyclical - Markets always go up & down....Domain price cycles are normal - just like any business.


The key is to always consider quality.....And, to set your strategy according to the the stages of the cycle - within the bounds of what you can afford.

.

 

[snoop]

The greatest future potential profits is a precisely opposite strategy - IF you can afford it....ie buy quality in a falling (or fallen) market....then, hold for as long as it takes (years, if necessary).....Sell that quality name, later, into a rising (or risen) market.

I think that strategy has a very real chance of making a loss quickly. It is basically going against the trend and the bottom isn't known. You might be buying at the bottom or you might be buying years from the bottom. For those who bought LLLL.com in the last couple of years this strategy hasn't had a good outcome thus far.

This does depend on having enough financial resources. But, its a huge wealth-builder, if you can do it.

Say we have another few years of what we've already had in the LLLL.com market, whether you can afford to sustain the losses or not does it make sense to keep throwing money at it? I guess that it is a question for those continuing to renew those reg fee names, how long are you going to wait for an impovement and if it does come realistically are those reg fees spent going to be made back?

For the guy who say bought a $30 name 18 months ago (when prices had already halved) that is now worth say $5 when is he likely to see a profit? He would have lost 90% ($30+$18 reg fees > $5) even though prices had already halved when he bought. Maybe he can afford it, but does it make any sense to keep paying renewals?

 

[Snorlaxative]

I've been lurking LLLLs for a few months now and I think I'm going to start by collecting these.
I picked up a triple premium today for a good price. What do they usually go for? Or should I post it on Sedo and wait out for an interested buyer instead?

Thanks for the tips.

 

[italiandragon]

What kind of buyout are we talking about exactly ? An artificial one sustained by domainers, like the LLL.us/.biz/.info buyouts ?
I would not say the fundamentals are that healthy and rosy.

artificial?

Pardon me, but I always saw domainers as real investors.....but if you want to use the term artificial ok then, LLL.com was an artificial buyout.....same for LLL.net...

Same for CCC.com....or CC.com/net/org

And I was one of those telling people to be careful with the LLLL.net countdown because it was a bit too early for the demand.

But that`s what it is all about. Demand and offer.

some people completed the "artificial" buyout of LLL.com years ago seeing potentials.

In the same way, some did for the LLLL.com in late 2007.

No one of you is providing useful data such % of LLLL.com dropping and no one of you is looking at how many disappears each month in endusers hands.

This thread was created to provide real data, proof, evidence.

I think the problem started when someone decided it was better to merge the "sales report" with the "discussion part of it".

But its becoming more of a fight rather than useful data analysis.

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------

thinking about it, any lottery is an artificial buyout.

But if your ticket does not win, it`s not good anymore, while here, you can still use it everyday.

For $0.02 a day, you have a LLLL.com "ticket".

Find me another lottery that cheap and that can give you revenue on your ticket if you use properly. All you need to earn to be even is 2 cents per day. Once you earn 4 cents per day, you are already gaining doubling your investment.

Now find me a better investment/risk and I will jump on it.

DATA people...NOT HOT AIR.

 

[accent]

..... I look at the big picture. The long term.

10 years renewal costs me $75 for a LLLL.com

But even assuming no revenue (which happens only if you don`t develop them at all), I`m confident that within 10 years I can get an offer well beyond that. Unfortunately I am not wealthy like BuyDomains otherwise I would have cleaned the lot of all cheap sales.

It is a bet for sure like any investment. No guarantee of return. I do not gamble much but this is one I feel good about it. .....

Well Said.

There appear to be several large companies and wealthy individuals who are buying any cheap LLLL.com they can find. When contacted by a buyer their price is mid four figures. They probably sell a few every year, covering much of their renewal costs, and the rapid growth of the internet assures that their investment will eventually be worth many times their cost. I think it is a valid business plan, dependent on the economy as most are, and well beyond my wallet.

I have been buying LLLL.coms since 2005. Sold very few of them, never considered dropping any. I pretty much quit buying in early 2007 and started again last summer. Despite what you guys are saying here about prices falling, I have been backing off buying recently, the cost is higher and the quality is lower it seems to me. Perhaps that is because I prefer undervalued parts of the market and other buyers have now discovered them. This is a sign of an expanding market, not a contracting one.

Snoop appears to be predicting a double dip recession globally. If that occurs then of course domains will follow. But the economy will work out in a year or so, most likely. And during that year the cost of computing and particularly mobile will continue to fall, bringing more people online and more demand (eventually) for domains. If prices for LLLL.coms fall then I will buy more. Not many domains fit my standards, I always need more. This is not the stock market where you can jump in and out quickly. Not for careful purchases, regardless of price level.

Lorenzo, your statements about the decline of the dollar have some truth in them. The timeline may be longer and the fall less than you expect, though. Back in 1979 gold and silver were through the roof. Inflation was 12%, 15% - I know I made 18% on a bank CD there for a while. Silver hit $50 per ounce and there was real concern that the Saudis would demand gold and silver for their oil. Didn't happen.

America has an amazing ability to bounce back. We act like utter fools sometimes, yet when we have to push hard we drop the nonsense and push. The death of the dollar scenarios are straight line projections - if we keep on spending, if healthcare costs continue to rise, if we keep on borrowing beyond our means.....

A lot of people here see the same trends and are making a lot of noise about it. The Democrats lost their 60th vote in the Senate. This is critical, now nothing can pass Congress without Republican support. Both partys have good ideas and also have stuff they promote to pay back their campaign contributors. With dual control there should be less foolishness.

A double dip recession would accelerate the process of trimming off the dead wood.