The LLLL.com sales and discussion thread

[italiandragon]

Hello, I think it would be pretty useful to keep track of all LLLL.com sales , even the little ones under $100 so that , pretty soon , when the available LLLL.com will be finished , we`ll have a better idea on market prices.

It is important that these sales are confirmed. So before to post, make sure payment went OK.

I will start with todays` Sedo confirmed sales:

FISE.com 2,700 Euros
TSRT.com US $760
VEUP.com US $1,700


Also, I found interesting to see this average LLLL, getting bids up to $51 and reserve not me. It says it all.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...110154111735_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40QQfviZ1

 

[bobby9101]

mmm a power struggle?
The way I see it, too many new domainers enter the market, read these posts and pick their "god" and mimic every move they make (on a smaller budget)
Not the wisest move by them, but the "gods" can't be held responsible.
This is a flipping game, buy low, sell high

 

[Andrei P.]

SEU has 200 MILLION Google results... HFG has 700k. Need we compare more? Please.

Measuring domain value by number of google results is another way of being incorrect. let's look at what SEU has in top 40 Google results:

Southeastern University (Universities reside on .edu domains and not end-users)
Social Exclusion Unit
Seu Jorge
Standards and Effectiveness Unit
Stupid End User
Socio-ecological Union
Sustainable Energy Utility
Survey of English Usage

The only reason why it has more results is because Seu is a name.

HFG in top 40 Google Results
Harry Frank Guggenheim Foundation
Healthcare Finance Group
HFG Farm shops Norfolk
The Australasian Health Facility Guidelines
HFG Consulting
HFG Financial
Royal Aeronautical Society Human Factors Group
Heerema Fabrication Group
Halter Financial Group
hfg-karlsruhe.de
Hedge Fund Group
frauen-hfg-ulm.de
thomasville-hfg.com
Holland Fresh Group
Hill Financial Group
Heritage Financial Group
hfgbowmaker.com
hfgpipe.com
Hamilton Flickr Group

I don't see how SEU may be more valuable than HFG. So HFG was a bad example because for HFG I see 3-4 potential end-users that my not buy it today but perhaps will buy in future or there will be new HF Group that will buy it. "Units " and "Utilities" don't buy domains.

 

[ddchan]

Just want to chip in a bit on Reece comment on Google results when researching on domains.

SEU may have 152 million hits, but if you limit it to English only pages, it's down to 1 million vs HFG 300k. So depends on the market that you're looking at for the domain.

And as Ergo has said, need to look at the pages that shows up in Google results.
Sometimes if the keyword is a name in Myspace or Youtube, you'll get tens of thousands of pages in Google results but maybe of not so much value.
Whereas HFG for example may have a number of Healthcare, Financial group etc interests.

I'm not disagreeing SEU is valuable, or U should be treated with more respect than its due. But then simplistic use of Google results as a metric is just as dangerous as using premium letters.

 

[Andrei P.]

I m not disagreeing that SEU is valuable, but telling that that SEU is more valuable than HFG isn't correct. H,F and G are not the best premium letters and there are not very frequent in acronyms like C,S,A,P,D,M but they are very commercial while U is not commercial letter.

ps. I'm not investing exclusively in low end. I'm investing in all categories of LLLL.coms equally I have CVCV, VCVC, 300-500$, 100-150$ value domains. If some types of domains go up and some go down in general my portfolio is always doing well so I'm interested in all niches of LLLL.coms going up.

 

[-REECE-]

Estibot is actually a pretty good estimator of LLL.com potential. Clearly sides with me here.

HFG would never even see $20k, that I can promise you. Storing past stats really is helpful in such situations... Any clue how badly H's and F's hurt resale value of an LLL.com? Well, let's just say it's alot, especially when there's 2 of them.

If you want another example, compare it to NWO.com which I recently lost in a bidding war despite placing a 30k bid... This is exactly what Lorenzo has been saying for months , and it's exactly what is being reflected in the marketplace today. Domains need to be evaluated based on what they offer, not based on what letters they contain. Are you now going to tell me that any premium LLL.com is worth more than a non-word non-pronounceable LLL.com containing bad letters? Nonsense!

Have we forgotten Letter Frequency 101 taught by Lorenzo ?

E 12.4%
T 8.9%
A 8.0%
O 7.6%
N 7.0%
I 6.7%
H 6.5%
S 6.2%
R 6.1%
D 4.6%
L 3.6%
U 2.7%
M 2.5%
W 2.3%
C 2.2%
F 2.2%
G 2.0%
Y 2.0%
P 1.6%
B 1.3%
V 0.8%
K 0.7%
Q 0.1%
X 0.1%
J 0.1%
Z 0.0%

Odd that 5 (E,T,A,O,I) of the 7 most valuable letters in LLLL.coms are ranked among the highest in letter frequency, no?

And for the record Ergo, Google results within most particular niches (premium LLL.coms, premium CVCVs, premium VCVCs,...) are significantly correlated with value. Put the numbers in Excel and see the results for yourself.

Anyway, I've wasted enough time debating this...

Next time you want to launch a midnight assault on me, do it by pm. It has nothing to do with LLLL.coms...

Measuring domain value by number of google results is another way of being incorrect. let's look at what SEU has in top 40 Google results:

Southeastern University (Universities reside on .edu domains and not end-users)
Social Exclusion Unit
Seu Jorge
Standards and Effectiveness Unit
Stupid End User
Socio-ecological Union
Sustainable Energy Utility
Survey of English Usage

The only reason why it has more results is because Seu is a name.

HFG in top 40 Google Results
Harry Frank Guggenheim Foundation
Healthcare Finance Group
HFG Farm shops Norfolk
The Australasian Health Facility Guidelines
HFG Consulting
HFG Financial
Royal Aeronautical Society Human Factors Group
Heerema Fabrication Group
Halter Financial Group
hfg-karlsruhe.de
Hedge Fund Group
frauen-hfg-ulm.de
thomasville-hfg.com
Holland Fresh Group
Hill Financial Group
Heritage Financial Group
hfgbowmaker.com
hfgpipe.com
Hamilton Flickr Group

I don't see how SEU may be more valuable than HFG. So HFG was a bad example because for HFG I see 3-4 potential end-users that my not buy it today but perhaps will buy in future or there will be new HF Group that will buy it. "Units " and "Utilities" don't buy domains.

 

[Dotmainer]

this is sales report thread

wbbc.com -> $787.00


-

 

[thetruman]

Reece, thank you very much for calling of majority of NamePros members fools.
PS. Why didn't you bashed low end LLLL.coms when you was selling them? Now you have a lot of names with repeating letters and will be telling everyone that they are the best thing in the world when you start selling them? Of course it's natural but very cynic, considering that there are many domainers that were purchasing domains from you and they remember you telling the opposite. Do you expect that you words will make them cost even cheaper so that you could re-purchase your domains at even lower price than you sold them?

I of course agree with Reece that CVCV are not so much valuable only because they are CVCVs. VCVCs, CVCC, VCVV etc are not worse than CVCV and each case must be considered individually.

Reece, back to your words about quality of HFG and SEU. HFG is much better than SEU because possible HFG end-users are commercial established companies a lot of HF Groups and majority of Groups are guess what... Fund or Financial making letter F as second to be perfect. while SEU are just Unions, Units, Universities and Utilities that won't pay even half-reseller price for the domain. I'm telling this just to show others that not all words told by Reece are pure 100% truth and guidelines to act...

I have to agree with Ergo on LLLL Reece's latest "externations". Again, calling "garbage" what yourself was magnifing just a couple of months ago, I notice a cynic attitute towards the VAST majority of LLLL that are available (numerically speaking). Your guide is accurate on buying/selling figures ando also the numerical analysis is very accurate. Personally I domain for fun, and surely haven t put my pension funds savings on domains, as I have just around 90 LLLL.com so your statements will not dent my finances :hehe: . However you are aware that your blog and your posts here can influence in one way or another the LLLL market (on a scale obviously); being so negative on a market you have been investing (and partially hyping some time ago) doesn t make you honour (IMHO obviously). Personally I think that one of the niches you are investing in for example (3 repeatings letters as JJJF or PPQP) prices are too high considering the end user potential: I know is a low % of the total ; regarding collectability, one of the rarest LLLL combination is an antipremium LLLL; a collectors garbage :blink:

 

[ssamriga]

wow, unexpected from Reece to be so harsh...

I also agree with Ergo that while HFG may not look and be as pronounceable as SEU, but Google results clearly show a much greater potential for rich endusers...

 

[dmi]

One day, there will be no bigger fool (99-00 deja vu?)...

I think that there will always be bigger fools out there. There are constantly more and more newbie domainers coming along who are blinded by the DNJournal reports (sales) and they just get fooled by the more experienced domainers.

Another thing... Newbie domainers get into domaining without reading anything, without asking anything, without analyzing etc. That makes it even easier for them to become bigger fools.

And... If something's big, there's always something bigger

 

[mwzd]

I think Reece has been really up front right from the beginning. When he was telling people to reg names last year, he told them 3x their investment value, which was met easily.

Then in Jan end he cautioned that the 700% roi would not continue. Prices went up, he got out, smart man. Those who flipped into the low end of the market at this stage have already seen the downside.

The next opportunity he pinpointed in late Jan was cvcv - you could get one in three figures then, now they're min. 4 figures.

He also let people in on 'rarity' value, something that domainers otherwise love, and also 'all premiums' when prices were around $250 ea. Both have proven to be decent money makers.

Why accuse him of pump and dump? He's been telling you his views and even actions, very clearly, right from the beginning. If you weren't ahead of the curve, you lost out, though thats true for the entire domain industry. This is truly a jungle, only the fittest survive.

I, for one, can see the light when Reece talks, he's extremely genuine and I wish there were more people like him willing to share the knowledge. Cheers!

 

[thetruman]

mine was not an accuse but a personal statement.
To be honest, considering that Reece's next project is a marketplace for short names (and especially for LLLL) his considerations might have been honest but not smart...
On 480K LLLL probably 70% (or more) of them are included in the "garbage" section; so the marketplace will be trading lot of trash... :tu:

 

[raredn.com]

Another thing... Newbie domainers get into domaining without reading anything, without asking anything, without analyzing etc. That makes it even easier for them to become bigger fools.

Also without listening to anything, look at the .asia domainers, makes me embarrassed to be a domainer, they really do

_________

 

[ddchan]

this is sales report thread

wbbc.com -> $787.00


-

Great price! Where is this sold?

 

[Dotmainer]

Great price! Where is this sold?

tucowsauctions -> 2008-04-13

-

 

[Andrei P.]

Look at these statements:

There's no particular reason other than stupid domainers that every single premium LLL.com should fetch ~18k+. Plain and simple. Just like there's no reason every single LLLL.com should fetch $30. Want the truth? Some LLLL.coms out there, like QJVX, probably aren't even worth renewing...

Your domain is worth what it can be sold for, but there are only so many suckers... At least LLL.coms have collectibility on their side and that gives the worst few hundred of them significant value. Your average LLLL.com is years -- and I mean years away from being a collectible like an LLL.com is today... There really is nothing to give these domains value at this time, except other domainers and endusers. Endusers are almost non-existent for QJVX-type LLLL.coms...

I'm not against reasonable appraisals and predictions. But this phraze is just bashing the low-end market after he already sold all his domains in this niche. Compare this with what he told 3-4 months ago. And he's telling this now when low-end LLLL.com market is reviving. There are no even most crappy LLLL.coms at SnapNames going for less than 35$ and just few are sold in 31-35$ range.

We all know that crap LLLL.coms are just collectibles and we all went on this boat knowing that we are in for collectibles with the rules of demand and supply. But it's unfair to singing about worthlessness of these collectibles only after you have sold-out.

Have we forgotten Letter Frequency 101 taught by Lorenzo ?

E 12.4%
T 8.9%
A 8.0%
O 7.6%
N 7.0%
I 6.7%
H 6.5%
S 6.2%
R 6.1%
D 4.6%
L 3.6%
U 2.7%
M 2.5%
W 2.3%
C 2.2%
F 2.2%
G 2.0%
Y 2.0%
P 1.6%
B 1.3%
V 0.8%
K 0.7%
Q 0.1%
X 0.1%
J 0.1%
Z 0.0%

I think that this table is one of the most worthless when talking about acronym domains. Letter E is the most frequent in words but when we are talking about acronyms it comes out that this is a mere premium letter that cannot be compared to more quality C,S,A,M,D-acronym-friendly letters. I have my own table of letters that more often create acronyms:

C 7240
S 6088
P 5724
A 5538
M 4612
D 4601
T 4228
R 4034
B 4009
F 3388
E 3204
I 3082
L 2795
G 2693
H 2337
O 2271
W 2035
N 1976
V 1879
U 1690
K 1275
J 1033
Q 716
Z 524
X 523
Y 435

The analysis is made on all two letter aconyms from http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/

Yesterday @SnapNames

cutf.com $85.00
lmae.com $400.00
sfiv.com $86.00
cslt.com $533.00

 

[Pred]

Also without listening to anything, look at the .asia domainers, makes me embarrassed to be a domainer, they really do

_________

:sold:

 

[Basement]

All this bashing is making me concerned about my lower-quality 4L.coms :lol:

Seriously, people, how can you actually accuse Reece of not looking beyond himself? If it wasn't for him, we'd have missed out on the "next big thing" completely. He wasn't exactly obliged tell us what he thought had a future. He can't always be right but he ahs been right most of the time and that has yielded us one helluva profit.

 

[italiandragon]

Hey guys, just noticing the arguments here....(no worries I gave up a long time ago about using the evaluation thread for that :td: )


but I`d like to just give my little opinion:

1) BREATH IN, BREATH OUT (do it x100 times before to write)

2) if you are looking to get rich overnigh then go to Afternic and find domains like AUTO.com for $10,000......ehmmm no.... I tried that, next morning I was not rich so just find another way because LLLL.com are now in the stage of filtering the flippers from the investors.

Without deep knowledge, analysis, will , efforts, faith and patience you won`t get rich in this industry.

Measuring domain value by number of google results is another way of being incorrect.

On the above I can only AGREE.

Sometimes I read some people (including "old fashion domainers that looks only domains with 10 years history") selling words that don`t have high Overture but they put there

"it has 50,000,000 Google results!!!"

SOOO??? Who cares about Google results, they mean almost nothing and if the word is spoken in several languages than the results are DECEIVING.

 

[Dotmainer]

^ AGREE :tu:
.

 

[currenz]

Without deep knowledge, analysis, will , efforts, faith and patience you won`t get rich in this industry...

I agree with your wise words. Don't forget to include Good Money Management Skills (shortcut = ask wife for second opinion before buying any domain ) :tu: Cheers

 

[filter]

ob price: sold tonight on eBay ->

XJQV @ 41​

:wave:

"prices will fluctuate ..." as the market guru once said

long term, IMO, should see convergence with CCC.com on the low end

short term, quite likely to see a few "buying opportunities" along the way over the next year or 2 ...

 

[ebatcave]

Just to give you my collective wisdom on a grand 6 months being in domainining (ha! ha!) , my conclusion so far is the threads are very emotional, where wild swings in prices can occur based on statements from some of the established domainers. For me, I look at SEDO as the measuring stick on the real values of 4L domains. In other words, what will the market bear in public, not what sells within fellow domainers' inventories. Yes, I know that some of these purchases are end users, but aren't we trying to sell to end users ultimately anyway?

Seems like everywhere I turn these days, everything is about 4 letter acronyms or web 2.0 non-sensical words - great for us. I can't look at a commercial or billboard or advertisements without noticing them. Everything is about branding, and the shorter the word the better for the customer to remember. All great steps in the ever-increasing demand for 4L words. And where else in the world can you be in a market where the increase in Internet users increases by millions? A few months ago I heard 100 new users are added to the Internet in China alone every minute. Increases are similar in every other developing country. There isn't anything else in the world that has automated increased market share on products (i.e., domains) just by sitting.

I haven't really tried to sell any domains at this point, but have sold a dozen from random requests for prices at an average 500% profit. That's better than any other investment I have ever done. Am I upset that I purchased a bunch of triple prems at the high end of the market? Not really. Did anyone in the threads influence me in that direction? Probably. Does it turn me off to this incredible 4L market? Absolutely not! Just look at SEDO and you will easily see prices are continuing to migrate upward. Now can I sell crappy 4L's on SEDO? Don't think so - probably have to rely on eBay or the standard domain reseller market when the time comes. Am I going to lose money on these? Maybe, but not if I'm patient. Seems like the domain flippers are no different than the stock market speculators - highly volatile. Win big - lose big. I'm also smart enough to know that a vast majority of the speculators have bills to pay at the end of the month and have no choice but to flip the domains. Those that are true investors and are lucky enough to hold onto some for awhile will do alright IMHO.

Fortunately I learned each week to be a better domainer and profited from my mistakes and honed my craft, as you all do. These blogs contain some great comments, and I have sifted through them to make better decisions. There's nothing wrong with strong arguments on both sides. That's what blogging is all about. So far, I'm enjoying the ride!

And, since this is a sales report thread...

Bought last night: JIXE.com $1350 - SEDO

 

[Andrei P.]

ob price: sold tonight on eBay ->

XJQV @ 41​

Well. As I understand this is one of the worst possible crappy LLLL.com!
1. It doesn't contain any premium letters at all!
2. It does contain V and thus it isn't premium in China
3. It does contain X and Q and thus it isn't premium in Germany
4. It doesn't contain all worst letters (X,Q,Z,Y and sometimes V) and thus can't be called rare anti-premium LLLL.com
5. It has letters with protruding parts (e.g. j,k,g,q,)

Congrats on this sale

 

[DomainMagnate]

Good points there John and nice ROI on sales!
I think anyone who is buying LLLL.com for a long term investment will eventually profit big

 

[filter]

Well. As I understand this is one of the worst possible crappy LLLL.com!
1. It doesn't contain any premium letters at all!
2. It does contain V and thus it isn't premium in China
3. It does contain X and Q and thus it isn't premium in Germany
4. It doesn't contain all worst letters (X,Q,Z,Y and sometimes V) and thus can't be called rare anti-premium LLLL.com
5. It has letters with protruding parts (e.g. j,k,g,q,)

Congrats on this sale

Thanks Ergo. Should note that I advertised it as "historical interest" - one of the last 50 registered in the November 2nd buyout. So, gets some extra credit as a collector's item. Cheap thrills ...

Have to say - with regard to the discussion here - from my perspective, it may be a slight exaggeration to say prices on the low end have crashed - they're still quite a bit better than they were in January. A little disappointment to see "walking on air" prices come down to earth from early February by 20-30% - and that certainly is a reality check for all the new flippers rushing into the market to "make money fast" ... but still overall I think solid enough for those who've been in the game even just a little bit longer.

6 months ago, I don't think many people would have predicted XJQV ever fetching more than $40. Where it goes from here, who knows ... In the long run, "up" is a good bet, IMO.