The FUTURE of Domain Name Brokers and The Long Tail

[Rob Monster]

Some of you will be familiar with the term "The Long Tail". It is perhaps one of the most famous articles ever written in Wired Magazine back in its hey-day. Chris Anderson is the visionary author. The old classic can be found here: https://www.wired.com/2004/10/tail/

What exactly do I mean by "Long Tail" Domains

There is a finite but knowable universe of people who will value the domain name TampaGolfLessons.com. If you can find them and engage them good chance that they value them for some price that allows them to earn a return from switching from what they use now to something better.

To illustrate, these are classic :"long tail" domains:

The Barrier to entry to become a Domain Broker is effectively zero

Why I think it matters to domainers is this: the super-brokers might not have any interest in brokering a 3 figure domain or a 4 figure domain because of the size of prize is too low, even at a 20% commission. Some brokers won't even take on a domain for less than 6 figures, again due to small size of prize.

On the other hand, in some parts of the world, notably in emerging markets, many people have more time and intellect, than they have money or domains. Nevertheless, they absolutely do have much to offer the domain industry by using their time and talent to connect supply with demand.

As we look ahead to the next phase of domaining, I foresee an explosion of Domain Name Brokers. The long-time brokers might perhaps dreading this day because they will up against a dual squeeze:

1. Godaddy, the aspiring monopolist, now has 1 million owned and operated domain names that they will be eager to sell through their channel to a vast retail customer base with a brokerage team who will be under pressure to add value and have access to a large proprietary data set about who buys what domains.

2. Emerging markets are about to serve up an absolute explosion of independent Name Brokers, who can make use of a fast-expanding array of free tools for finding who owns what domains, and can use secure ways to clear those transactions, e.g. through marketplaces and escrow services.


So what is a Boostrapping Domain Broker to do?

The good news is that brokering domains is a capital-efficient way for emerging market participants to bootstrap their way into an industry, even with little or no capital.

One way to get started might be to leverage a domain liquidation service - go find a domain that is newly listed, and try to find a buyer for that domain before the reverse auction ends. After all, the price keeps coming down while your prospective buyers can be bid up.

Many people might look at domain liquidation services on the last day, looking for expiring auctions to find the bargains. However, the contrarian move is a bit different and that is to look at the new arrivals, and not just for the mispriced domains but I think more importantly for the bootstrapper, the arbitrage opportunities.

Examples:

We plan to add a "Escrow" feature right inside of our domain liquidation service so that domain flippers can essentially send a domain into escrow, cover the transfer fee, and then have a short window to make good on their purchase. If they fail to make good, the auction resumes and the broker is out their transfer fee.

Looking ahead, we have larger ideas for how a fast-expanding pool of domain brokers could leverage a domain brokerage platform. Will share more on that if folks are interested in the topic.


Why a massive increase in the number of brokers is good news for (almost) everyone

The really great news for domain owners is that there will be a vast supply of highly energetic people who will be able to help connect supply with demand, and to get more supply into the hands of end-users. The end result of this is more liquidity in the domain economy, and higher retail prices for quality inventory.

 

[Recons.Com]

Here is the thing:

If you have skills to do outbound for this kind of names, you are way better off buying your own inventory at $5 to $20 apiece and selling 10% to 20% of them at $300 to $500 each than working for commission on other people's stuff while also competing for the same inventory and end users.

 

[karmaco]

Never been a fan of people spamming people to sell someone else’s names without the owners permission .


The goal of NameLiquidate should be to obtain the best possible price for the current owner. Period. Not take advantage of them.


What you are suggesting makes it a higher risk to add your names to NameLiquidate because your name still might not sell and others who don’t own the name are potentially spamming people behind your back while your listing is live.


How is it ethical to chase down end users on a domain you do not own without the owners permission? I know it happens all the time but it’s actually pretty unsavory. You might need to make that loud and clear on the homepage and submit your names page.


To look for potential end users before a purchase is one thing . To act on it while someone else owns the domain is another.


At least the big boys, GoDaddy etc have the permission of the current owner to market their name.


I consider this kind of “brokering” somewhat distasteful. It also relies heavily on people continuing to put their names on Name Liquidate.


I like alot of things about Epik—but this idea not so much.

 

[rohitgoyal]

Well, if there are multiple brokers working that lead, then it becomes a game of chicken. Because:

- The registrant can pull their listing anytime
- The brokers can buy the domain anytime

The point is that I want to see as much attention to the fresh listings, as to the final 24 hours.

I think this type of model provides a powerful check and balance while making the pie bigger.

The seller is liquidating but he/she is also bringing retail dollars into the domain economy. What does that do in the end? It drives prices higher while getting more domains locked up with end-users.

If I was explicitly liquidating domains, I cannot imagine opting out for maximum help.

Multiple broker working on same lead would create more confusion and situation would ultimately turn messy for everyone involved. Imo

 

[oldtimer]

In general I don't like this arbitrage thing where some brokers try to sell someone's domain by promoting it to end users without the domain owner's permission or even knowledge.

At the same time I understand how Rob wants to create a new way to help the disadvantaged domainers in the emerging markets.

I believe one way to do this is to create a whole new program that is separate from Name Liquidate where people can then submit their expiring domains (or even donate some domains) with the prior knowledge that there are going to be brokers that are going to do arbitrage on their domains by trying to sell them before the domains are deleted and lost.

Or at the very least divide Name Liquidate into two separate sections, one section for those who think that arbitrage is okay and that don't mind for brokers to try to promote and sell their domains and another section for those who don't want any arbitrage done on their domains, this way there won't be any mistakes or confusion.

IMO

 

[pb]

Well, if there are multiple brokers working that lead,

I'm sure the potential buyer will be thrilled to be offered the same domain by five different "brokers".
If anything, one broker should "claim" a given domain and get approved by the registrant before proceeding to send out spam.

 

[tonyk2000]

Selling something you do not own (and may never own) is a bad thing. It is unethical at least.

 

[capybara]

What do you think about the arrival of a vast number of domain brokers into the industry?

I think these are brokers from the word "broke". Can't even afford their own domains, want to make money off other people.

 

[Recons.Com]

How many domains does a disadvantaged but talented person in one of the emerging economies needs to buy in order to do as you say. The lack of capital in some of these places is what makes it difficult for people to get started as domainers and I believe is the issue that Rob is trying to address here, although as I have already said I am not that much of a fan for arbitrage specially if it is being done without the domain owner's permission or even knowledge.

IMO

Come on now!

1. If you have skills to do outbound and get around 10% of sell through, you need just 10 domains for 1 sale or invest as little as $50 and earn $300. And now, you have $300 to buy 50 names, sell 5 etc.

2. You are focusing on much smaller problem of having $50 to start a business for a "disadvantaged but talented person", while forgetting that this person will have to overcome much bigger problems of a) language barrier; b) buyers being in the rich countries where they will distrust anyone from a developing country; c) other disadvantages like not being able to provide a phone number or make a call etc.

There is a reason brokers focus on top names and that is that selling names involve considerable effort. It makes more sense to spend 5x more time and effort and sell $xx,xxx name for 15% than work for 20% or even 50% commission for a $500 name.

It also doesn't make sense of working for 20% when you are doing the 80% of the effort/investment, as the owner invests only his $5-20, while you might need to spend hours.

 

[equity78]

I guess to start out, Epik could just give some of their names to the best candidates who are long on intelligence and drive and short on money and see how they do selling Epik's names that are of the might let expire quality.

Test that for 6 months, see how many sales, present the data and then let others join in.

 

[Kassey Lee]

The real opportunity may be in setting up a marketplace for brokering sub $25,000 domains which are too low for established brokers to be interested. The marketplace needs to build up trust like Airbnb and other similar services where both owners and brokers are vetted/rated.

 

[Rob Monster]

Please feel free to share your Domain Arbitrage success stories in this thread.

If needed I will have some Epik staff do some of these just to prove the point!

@domainexpert77
@Riacontents
@DnFolk

 

[Rob Monster]

I think these are brokers from the word "broke". Can't even afford their own domains, want to make money off other people.

We are specifically talking about domains that are being LIQUIDATED.

In the Bible, it was called "gleaning the fields". After the harvest was done, you let the poor folks glean the field.

In the domainer version we are talking about here, the registrant is dumping their domains -- these are domains they don't have time to sell to end-users and for which there might be just a few days before they are lost.

So, we crowdsource some sellers to push that inventory so instead of that domain getting picked off for let's say $9, the domain gets sold to an end-user for $1000.

In this example, everyone wins:

- The end-user gets a domain for a quasi-retail price
- The broker made a buck for doing a bunch of tedious work.
- The registrant got more than he/she would have gotten otherwise.

It looks to me to be:

 

[Ostrados]

Firstly, dont sell something that you dont own.

Secondly, to broker a domain you need verbal or written authorization from the domain owner and you must be transparent with the domain owner about selling price and commission!


Thirdly, This idea is simply what some frontrunners do in auctions, front running is not permitted in all auction platforms, Epik is the first to allow and encourage it in their nameLiquidate platform!

You can search about front running in this forum, and you will learn that it is a disrespectable practice
Negotiating with Front runners

Finally, front running is not brokerage, so I think the title of this thread is misleading.

 

[oldtimer]

If you are struggling to get $50 you are likely from a country with a weak economy.

In that type of country where people are struggling to pay for basic necessities, how big is the pool of potential domain buyers you can deal with locally? Not very big.

There is really nothing new in this thread. There have been spam farms for years sending out endless emails selling domain names that they don't actually own, using labor from developing countries.

Brad

Even in developing countries and emerging economies there are still a lot of rich people who own businesses and companies, the problem is that all the wealth is concentrated at the top and so there is little to no opportunities for most people to make a decent living.

As I have already mentioned on several occasions in this thread I am not that big of a fan of doing arbitrage specially without the domain owner's permission and knowledge. And I am against people mass emailing and spamming end users.

This project could only work under controlled conditions where the brokers are properly trained and that the domain owners agree to let them promote their domains to end users, and as I have also already mentioned perhaps there has to be a new platform for this that is separate from Name Liquidate.

@Rob Monster , having a broker button for marketplace listing sounds like a good idea as long as there is a fixed commission and that the brokers are trained and approved to make sure that they are both knowledgeable and skillful and also that they adhere to the proper standards of being a broker and that they only promote the domains to end users with the prior consent from the domain owner.

You might want to test your new idea on a smaller scale with a few people before making any major changes in the platforms that most people here already like and use.

IMO

 

[SOLR]

@Rob Monster

Absolutely brilliant idea…if you can make it work, which you probably can’t from my limited understanding. I have been lurking this forum for a while and you have some very innovative ideas and insights, so thanks for all you do for the domaining community. Let me get that out of the way before I criticize your ideas, hahah.

Some thoughts:

Only a part of the domains on NameLiquidate is even optimally outboundable. So you would want to set up a filter that shows optimally outboundable domains to make it easier for the brokers.

The seven day period will generate a lot of spam and desperate, annoying emails, which only serves to harm the public perception of the domain community as a whole. Remember, we are already "hoarders", lets not become obnoxious ones.

No matter where someone lives in the world and how much money they have, lets say your idea works optimally and they can outbound things on NL and get paid for it. Well, once they get good at outbounding, they are just going to do it themselves and buy domains and outbound flip things in a way where they aren’t limited to a 7 day period to broker something. They aren’t going to stick around on NL if they can make more elsewhere and enjoy portfolio appreciation with domains that they personally own. So, unless there was an incentive, your idea would select only the lowest quality domain brokers to be doing this. And since it costs money to reserve a name for 7 days to broker it (which also undercuts your original premise of this being a very low cost to get into domain brokering, since 7 days might not even be enough time to broker something) the lowest quality domain brokers would just lose whatever money they did have and be unable to continue.

Maybe give the domain seller a cut of the broker fee?

Even if this idea doesn’t work out, the key is to think of other ideas on how to get end users involved in NL. Could you advertise NameLiquidate.com to try to get some of BrandBucket/Bpa/SH traffic for brandables? “Don’t get ripped off by a brandable marketplace, find your brand for $9 or more” Just a thought, probably not a good one... This could possibly drive up the prices NL names are liquidating for by getting some end-user interest for the brandables. Maybe have brandable names that are liquidating highlighted or filterable with some autogenerated “logo”, basically just randomly colored unique font? Dropping brandables can’t be easily outbounded as far as I know, so there is still a need to stimulate higher pricing on this front, even if this brokerage idea were to take off.

Like oldtimer said, it seems like this would work much, much, much better if a similar broker option was introduced to all the domains on Epik. Let domain owners opt into the option to let other people outbound their domains. Could set up a “broker score” so that domain name owners could automatically disallow the worst brokers and only allow better brokers who have a track history of success.

I’m not sure why you are trying to mash this very unique and interesting idea of yours into NameLiquidate, which appears to be something for other domainers. Of course, if it is cheap to set up, and can generate revenue, do it. It may have some limited application and some profitability for you.

Finally, what are you thinking would be a fair fee to charge the broker for the 7 day period?

 

[SOLR]

If the cost to try to broker a domain in a week is 8.49 non-refundable then this isn't any better than hand-registering a domain for 8.49 and trying to sell it in a year. A week is too short of a term to get anywhere near full outbounding potential.

Technically, couldn't they just hand-register domains and try to sell them in the 5-day registration grace period and if they can't do so, just send them back for free. That to me seems like the total entry level brokerage option...

 

[ResoluteDomains]

come on, Rob
is that a non-promotional post????

"just helping other domainers
in leading them somewhere" ????
who knows where.

time = money

mad ideas = time and money spent

welcome in the Adam Dicker's "lets create webpages and sell them to local business owners
buy them from me for only 1.495 USD" club of scammers.

There is absolutely NO WAY to compare @Rob Monster with Adam Dicker, who stole lots of money from me (and many, many others), who LIED to our faces, even had his henchmen lie to us as well, stringing us all along for months over months to the point where it went past the credit card dispute time period. He knew precisely what he was doing to everyone. Money that he promised to multiply ten-fold.

How dare you make this comparison. Holy cow! Rob is growing his business and in exchange for his "promotions" he gives you exactly what he tells you he's going to give you. You get the exact service he promotes. If you dont like it, IGNORE it!!!

Being critical is welcome and its normal but this is beyond critical. Its vindictive. Its poisonous. It contributes NOTHING to the threads. It becomes a time-sink. The constant vinegar and piss is off the chart with you and the same people each and every time Rob posts something, but it seems to be mostly started with you. Y'all seem to have "Rob Derangement Syndrome" if you ask me. This reply, here, and now, has been coming for quite some time.

I have bit my tongue since last Summer and cant anymore. I've even hesitated for days to reply here but I cant anymore. I cant stand to see the anger, the hatred anymore. Its not civil. There ARE some who are genuinely engaging in discussion but there are a small few who cant help but add NOTHING but anger, hatred, negativity. I dont know about anyone else but I have had enough.

ROB started the thread. ROB asked a question. Your first post was to criticize him for promoting Epik again and NOT anything to do with the question. That post should be removed. If its not, it will be (for me) after I ignore your account. Very sad that it comes down to it because I've been a part of this forum since 2005 (my first account is inactive) and I have (now) two people on my ignore list in 15 years. Very sad.

Rob has done nothing less than help me and others, personally, and all YOU seem to do is come to EVERY SINGLE Epik thread and spread your vinegar and piss around. It has been quite noted (just as you seem to think he's promoting Epik around). Of course he is, he's the damn CEO so why the heck would he NOT. Adam Dicker never called people. He hid behind his computer screen like a damn coward and a thief. He did not respond to emails, phone calls, etc. He knew damn well he was scamming people. If Rob ends up scamming people like Adam did then I will eat crow for y'all but these two men are night and day.

Business IS ALL ABOUT promoting. Promotion can be subtle or it can be in your face - and all in between. If you do not like it then get out of business.

Let the mods decide if he's not conforming to the rules. Report his posts and let them do their job. Dont like their response/action then start your own forum and control the message if you think that is good for discussion. The same set of people come out and pounce on him and Epik each and every time and its more than obvious to the rest of us. Thank God for the ignore feature because all these threads turn into pissing matches and there are others who actually are interested in the information posed. Stop hijacking these threads and go do something else. Please. People who have this syndrome cant help but WAIT for the next Rob Monster / Epik post. You're wasting precious time in your life - time can never be recovered.

If you do not like seeing his posts then do to Rob what I am going to do with you right now, turn on IGNORE for his account. I will add more and more to my ignore list because I am sick and tired of these threads going from hopeful ideas to arguments and finger pointing and down right toddler behavior.

To respond to the thread itself now: I, as a seller of a liquidated domain, give explicit permission for 2 dozen people to try to sell my domain, what business of it is of anyone? If I permit others to try to sell my domains then let them sell the names.

Wow. Amazing how these threads devolve so quickly.

No need for you to reply, I wont see it.

 

[Rob Monster]

No, I didn't miss NameBrokers, but that's a platform for Brokers, and like all other brokers at present NameBrokers only cares about "high-value digital assets" with the listings starting at 6 figures. The platform I think we are all talking about is a platform that would be for SELLERS AND Brokers (well that's what I envisage anyway). Something much more like Upwork where you can hire a broker for a $x,xxx domain just as easily as you can hire one for a $xxx,xxx domain. Something very different from NameBrokers.

Ignore what is on NameBrokers.com right now -- those are real listings but that is not the final destination of that brand. What you described there of matching talent to task is exactly what we are talking about.

On a related note, I have been discussing with @Pat8 about the need for an Upwork solution. A very crude early prototype exists here:

https://www.masterbucks.com/projects/

You have to login with your Epik login to see it but the concept is there.

In the meantime, there is a pretty vast supply of OpenSource solutions. Two that we found are here:

https://www.agriya.com/products/freelancer-clone

https://github.com/jyyblue1987/upwork-opensource

If someone has a fast-track solution for solving the "Fiver for domainers" requirement, we are looking.

So, yes, in short:

it should be possible to find a broker to do buy-side or sell-side work for your very targeted niche.

It should also be possible to find a specialist to add value to your domains, e.g. add a logo, build a site, etc.

NameBrokers has a product manager in @DanSanchez .

The un-named "Fiver for domains" is as yet still in the planning stage but I would not be surprised if @Pat8 ends up being the champion for it.

 

[Rob Monster]

I doubt it would work this way. If a person who is "selling" domains they don't own gets a lead on a name that is being sold there, they would wait until it hits the lowest then buy and resell.

Well, if there are multiple brokers working that lead, then it becomes a game of chicken. Because:

- The registrant can pull their listing anytime
- The brokers can buy the domain anytime

The point is that I want to see as much attention to the fresh listings, as to the final 24 hours.

I think this type of model provides a powerful check and balance while making the pie bigger.

The seller is liquidating but he/she is also bringing retail dollars into the domain economy. What does that do in the end? It drives prices higher while getting more domains locked up with end-users.

If I was explicitly liquidating domains, I cannot imagine opting out for maximum help.

 

[Rob Monster]

I'm sure the potential buyer will be thrilled to be offered the same domain by five different "brokers".
If anything, one broker should "claim" a given domain and get approved by the registrant before proceeding to send out spam.

I think that is exactly the way we will go.

There is a related development -- basically create a broker registry where brokers and registrants can register their exclusives, placing the domain in a sort of pre-escrow where during the broker exclusive other brokers could not claim exclusives.

More on that to follow but in the meantime, the point of this thread is to explore how to methodically tap the human capacity of a new generation of brokers to add liquidity to domains that are priced to sell and that have a notably short fuse due to imminent expiry or other urgency.

There is potential here -- I hope to demonstrate that and to also scale it within the bounds of ethical norms of the industry while making the pie bigger for the assembling horde of high energy and high talent emerging market participants who are eager to make their mark or at least make an honorable living.

 

[bmugford]

According to Rob there are people who already have become successful in selling domains once they have been able to overcome the $50 or $100 dollar barrier that they needed to get started, and yes $50 dollars could be a big barrier to a lot of the people who live in some of the more disadvantaged places around the World.

As far as lack of communication skills and not having proper contact credentials, keep in mind that they can get started by selling domains in their local areas and then move up from there.

If you are struggling to get $50 you are likely from a country with a weak economy.

In that type of country where people are struggling to pay for basic necessities, how big is the pool of potential domain buyers you can deal with locally? Not very big.

There is really nothing new in this thread. There have been spam farms for years sending out endless emails selling domain names that they don't actually own, using labor from developing countries.

Brad

 

[topdom]

Not sure what it means, but it needs to be tested. Finding a buyer in a short period of time is almost impossible, because people ignore, and the reason they ignore: they are suspicious, and even if not they don't have time, and they are not ready.

Maybe it would be better if brokering is done during registration period instead of after expiration.
How would it work: People apply to become a broker for my domain, and I choose one of those brokers, and domain gets locked somewhere for 1 month, and during that time my broker tries to sell my domain within my range, and when the sale is complete, everything should be transparent.
.....
Or coupon method I mentioned 1 year ago: My chosen price for the domain is 1K fixed, and someone applies to become a broker for it, and gets a coupon, and gives that coupon to endusers, and when used it makes the price to drop to 900, and the system knows whose coupon was used and pays a commission to that broker, like 100. I would be happy with 700 at the end. Everyone wins in this scenario.

 

[7363824]

I think once a domain is secured as broker exclusive, we can make it so that during those 7 days, the broker and registrant can be in direct communication in order to work out a longer term arrangement. Some folks here are aware that we are working on an upgrade for NameBrokers.com where broker exclusives can be documented in a public registry so that it is easy to see if a domain is already represented, and by who. There is more to be done in this arena to avert chaos, but the key point is to have a mechanism to save a domain from the expiry stream in a way that creates more value for registrants versus the current default practice of allowing domains to go to an expiry stream that is monetized by persons other than the registrant.

Persoanlly I feel NameLiquidate and NameBrokers should be/need to be two separate things.

If an owner wants to use NameBrokers that's something that imo should be done before expirarion/liquidation.

 

[Lox]

Domainname.ext available for brokerage

Apply to become a broker

- personal details, payout details etc
- I agree (Duties and Responsibilities, etc)

- choose DN/s

- target price f.e. $500-$1000 (by broker) / ($ revision by NB assistant)

- submit your targets/ prospects (f.e. Company name, Email, Phone, Niche, URL, Address)

- System: Domainname.ext = determine whether a company/ target has been already assigned / reserved by another broker. If’s ... the message: For DN.ext > Target already assigned. Please submit another...

- choose pref. communication channel: internal: yourname @ namebroker.ext or external (if internal - the NB system provides f.e. Helpdesk platform where prospects and broker exchanges are recorded. // external: email messages must be bcc to yourname @ namebroker.ext

... etc

Regards