alert The fund can't be withdrawal from Epik.com via Masterbucks wallet

[enamebroker]

It happened on 23rd Aug 2022 and this matter lasted almost one month without any process. Masterbucks.com declined my fund withdrawal and disabled the button of fund withdrawal. And I contacted Epik.com and got no further action even if Rob Monster got involved in it for two weeks. All the time I was told in email by management review.

What is wrong with Epik.com? Do you think it is normal to disable fund withdrawal? How can I get back my fund from Epik.com? Thanks for your suggestion.

 

[bmugford]

The lawfirm is charging 1k USD to send a demand letter to Epik. Is that a normal price?

Can anyone confirm. If that’s too high or normal?

That is the type of fee that will vary greatly depending on the lawyer.
It could cost anywhere from a few hundred dollars to thousands depending on the lawyer and situation.

If you do go down that path, I would love to see what the Masterbucks TOS says.
It is a document that doesn't seem to publicly exist from what I have seen.

Brad

 

[Amansaifi812]

Exactly. I absolutely hate that as well. But what if they keep doing this. A class action lawsuit would solve all of this.

 

[Amansaifi812]

That is the type of fee that will vary greatly depending on the lawyer.
It could cost anywhere from a few hundred dollars to thousands depending on the lawyer and situation.

If you do go down that path, I would love to see what the Masterbucks TOS says.
It is a document that doesn't seem to publicly exist from what I have seen.

Brad

Thanks

 

[bmugford]

Thanks

There is also really nothing stopping you from looking at other options. If you feel it is a little on the high side, you can try contacting others and compare options.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Exactly. I absolutely hate that as well. But what if they keep doing this. A class action lawsuit would solve all of this.

I am sure if October 10th rolls around, and the system is not operational as promised, there will be no shortage of people stuck with Masterbucks that will be weighing their options as well.

Brad

 

[rh2000]

I sold a website. Had to choose Epik because the buyer was Russian. I can’t sleep tbh. I’m waking up after 2 am to check emails from their team.

I have contacted a law firm too. But I’m in Indian standard timezone, it’s really hard for me to wake up after 2 am and then do everything. The lact of sleep is impacting my health. It’s 6:54 AM here and I’m still waiting for the emails i sent them 3-4 hours ago.

Rob said my payment is under review. But seems like it was a lie. I have no working capital now. My bills are due, i need money to start new sites and i have to pay some debts too which was one of the main reasons to sell my site.

This is sad. From what I have read, a lot of people have money locked up at Epik. You won't be the only one not sleeping. This is insane. I have never seen anything like this before.

 

[jberryhill]

The lawfirm is charging 1k USD to send a demand letter to Epik. Is that a normal price?

That strikes me as quite a lot. At a rate of, say, $350 per hour, I can't see how it takes that long to say "You have my client's money, he wants it back, or he will sue." Perhaps the lawyer is promising to do more than just send a letter, but that seems quite high for a letter which does not require extensive argument or citation to relevant legal principles.

I realize people seem to put a lot of stock in those sorts of things, but even if the letter is sent by a lawyer, it is simply another communication from someone saying "I want my money" and will be dealt with by saying it will happen October 10, or whenever. The calculation is that if someone thinks they just need to wait two weeks, then it is better than forking over money to file a legal action. I sincerely doubt that a letter from a lawyer is going to be met with "Oh, okay, we'll pay that right now" any more than an email from you. They know how much money they are holding and they know what people with those kinds of amounts are probably capable of doing to get it.

The "technical precision" of Mr. Royce does not explain the formation of the Wyoming Masterbucks LLC entity two weeks ago, nor does it explain why Amplifyx was not a suitable corporate vehicle for Masterbucks. Corporate structure is not a technical issue, it is a legal one, and Mr. Royce has no relevant background in corporate law.

One might imagine that if the problem were a lack of funds, then the "current" "target" date of October 10 provides an opportunity for Epik to make the rounds of persons or organizations to whom they provide technical services and say, "Nobody else is going to provide you service. We need money. If you don't give it to us, the lights go out." This would be particularly useful if you were someone who, for example, is currently trying to reduce a $49M jury verdict, and may want to park some cash with friends for a while.

After all, another recent development is the "offering" of securities in Epik at KingdomVentures.com, also of relatively recent vintage:

For those outside the US "8-1-22" is August 1, 2022, not January 8, 2022.

So there is probably some reason to believe that if - IF - the issue is a liquidity problem, then perhaps they can keep churning out excuses long enough to find someone to bail them out, because Epik provides services to some customers who find it hard to get those services elsewhere.

 

[jberryhill]

A class action lawsuit would solve all of this.

One of the first things I do when someone contacts me to say, "Help, I'm being sued for a million dollars!" is to ask, "Do you have a million dollars?"

If the answer is "no", then I tell them, "The good news is you aren't going to lose a million dollars."

If - and again I say "if" - the problem is one of liquidity, then the response to a lawsuit would be to declare bankruptcy, and that puts all the creditors in line, depending on their priority, to get however many cents on the dollar can be parceled out at some point into the far future. The more common result is that the bankruptcy proceeding itself and the court-appointed receiver chew through most of whatever may have been there.

This could all sort itself out as outlined above, at which point there will be no shortage of righteous indignation about how DARE anyone think ill of a company that freezes its client's funds indefinitely and without notice. Then again, if they want to be a paypal competitor, they seem to be nailing that part down.

 

[bmugford]

That strikes me as quite a lot. At a rate of, say, $350 per hour, I can't see how it takes that long to say "You have my client's money, he wants it back, or he will sue." Perhaps the lawyer is promising to do more than just send a letter, but that seems quite high for a letter which does not require extensive argument or citation to relevant legal principles.

I realize people seem to put a lot of stock in those sorts of things, but even if the letter is sent by a lawyer, it is simply another communication from someone saying "I want my money" and will be dealt with by saying it will happen October 10, or whenever. The calculation is that if someone thinks they just need to wait two weeks, then it is better than forking over money to file a legal action. I sincerely doubt that a letter from a lawyer is going to be met with "Oh, okay, we'll pay that right now" any more than an email from you. They know how much money they are holding and they know what people with those kinds of amounts are probably capable of doing to get it.

Thanks John.

It is a good to have a lawyer's perspective on that.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

So there is probably some reason to believe that if - IF - the issue is a liquidity problem, then perhaps they can keep churning out excuses long enough to find someone to bail them out, because Epik provides services to some customers who find it hard to get those services elsewhere.

Epik simply ignored the problem for as long as they possibly could until a critical mass of pissed off customers showed up.

Now they are pushing the timeline even further forward with their statement.

To me it seems like Epik is simply buying time for whatever reason.

Brad

 

[karmaco]

Their chairman Rob monster asked me to remove the negative reviews just 15 minutes ago. According to him Trustpilot negative reviews are defamatory.

The company that supports free speech is flagging negative reviews against them.

It’s been two weeks. All i want is my 25k USD. Epik is giving me false hopes everyday. They told me they would make a public announcement but they did not. I scheduled a meeting with their CEO but he canceled at last moment.

Their chairman Rob said:

“As for the defamatory TrustPilot reviews, they have been disputed. If you are wise, you will remove them first.” - Rob Monster

Seems like a threat to me.

They said me contacting the customer support multiple times is harassment. What about Epik keeping my money for weeks? That’s professionalism?

I asked for a manual wire transfer and they said they need my LinkedIn for verification.

I completed my verification last week. I can provide all my IDs like Passport, Driving license, Tax ID, Government ID etc again.

Who asks for LinkedIn as verification?


I’m looking forward to finally take legal action against them because they have crossed the line now. If your money is stuck too, do not wait for them. Contact a lawfirm now.

If you want to send them a legal notice too. Please contact me.

I hope you and everyone else gets your money soon. This debacle may be the nail in the coffin for domainers not wanting to risk selling their domains there. They have less support for their tactics every day. Not getting paid promptly is not going to cut it for anyone going forward.

About the trust pilot ratings you are allowed to leave your honest feedback on any company. Rob Monster has no right to dish out veiled threats or intimidation tactics. I would file complaints everywhere that is applicable including ICANN if they are threatening to not pay you over a Trust Pilot rating.

 

[jberryhill]

I mean, hey, it may be a spectacular letter from the biggest firm in the State of Washington, so who am I to judge without seeing it.

Incidentally, if you are pursuing a simple debt claim, then the threshold for federal court jurisdiction is $75,000. There may be some federal law claims that could be made out here. However, the simplest claim here would be a straightforward state law debt claim.

This is important, because attorneys in the US are licensed by state. Attorneys may be licensed in more than one state, and there are some specialized administrative courts in federal agencies which also admit attorneys. For example, I am licensed in Pennsylvania and the USPTO.

If your lawyer is not licensed in the State of Washington, he or she can still pursue an action in federal court in the Washington. However he or she will need to hire a local counsel who is admitted to the US District Court for the Western District of Washington, as it is one of that court's local rules to have a local attorney responsible for compliance. That differs from some other federal courts, but it is why I have appeared in federal courts in various jurisdictions.

In state court - to pursue a debt/contract claim of less than $75,000 - it would be strongly preferable to have an attorney with specific experience and admission to the bar in the State of Washington.

One extremely good, and with fees to match, attorney who tags those bases is Derek Newman. But if you are dealing with an attorney who is not admitted in the State of Washington, it is somewhat less impressive to receive correspondence from an attorney who cannot by him or herself actually bring an action there.

I have no professional or other association with Derek Newman, but this sort of thing is right up his alley.

The reason I mention this is because if your lawyer is not licensed in the State of Washington, then to make good on proceeding to sue, you will end up paying ANOTHER lawyer who is licensed in Washington along with this one. You might want to think about saving a step and hiring a Washington lawyer in the first place.

 

[jberryhill]

I would file complaints everywhere that is applicable including ICANN if they are threatening to not pay you over a Trust Pilot rating.

Again, zero relevance to ICANN.

If you are having problems with registering, transferring, or doing anything with a domain name, then ICANN is the place to complain. If you complain to ICANN that Epik is not cashing out your Masterbucks, they will have no clue what language you are speaking and why you are speaking it to them. ICANN has nothing to do with how Epik runs the Masterbucks system.

 

[youaintme]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Another bet: <a href="https://twitter.com/Brianmroyce?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@Brianmroyce</a> is a puppet ruler.</p>&mdash; Dennis Grimes (@DennisNGrimes) <a href="

https://twitter.com/x/status/1575553387365793792

">September 29, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Amansaifi812]

That strikes me as quite a lot. At a rate of, say, $350 per hour, I can't see how it takes that long to say "You have my client's money, he wants it back, or he will sue." Perhaps the lawyer is promising to do more than just send a letter, but that seems quite high for a letter which does not require extensive argument or citation to relevant legal principles.

I realize people seem to put a lot of stock in those sorts of things, but even if the letter is sent by a lawyer, it is simply another communication from someone saying "I want my money" and will be dealt with by saying it will happen October 10, or whenever. The calculation is that if someone thinks they just need to wait two weeks, then it is better than forking over money to file a legal action. I sincerely doubt that a letter from a lawyer is going to be met with "Oh, okay, we'll pay that right now" any more than an email from you. They know how much money they are holding and they know what people with those kinds of amounts are probably capable of doing to get it.

The "technical precision" of Mr. Royce does not explain the formation of the Wyoming Masterbucks LLC entity two weeks ago, nor does it explain why Amplifyx was not a suitable corporate vehicle for Masterbucks. Corporate structure is not a technical issue, it is a legal one, and Mr. Royce has no relevant background in corporate law.

One might imagine that if the problem were a lack of funds, then the "current" "target" date of October 10 provides an opportunity for Epik to make the rounds of persons or organizations to whom they provide technical services and say, "Nobody else is going to provide you service. We need money. If you don't give it to us, the lights go out." This would be particularly useful if you were someone who, for example, is currently trying to reduce a $49M jury verdict, and may want to park some cash with friends for a while.

After all, another recent development is the "offering" of securities in Epik at KingdomVentures.com, also of relatively recent vintage:

Show attachment 224096

For those outside the US "8-1-22" is August 1, 2022, not January 8, 2022.

So there is probably some reason to believe that if - IF - the issue is a liquidity problem, then perhaps they can keep churning out excuses long enough to find someone to bail them out, because Epik provides services to some customers who find it hard to get those services elsewhere.

It makes sense. Thanks

 

[Amansaifi812]

I mean, hey, it may be a spectacular letter from the biggest firm in the State of Washington, so who am I to judge without seeing it.

Incidentally, if you are pursuing a simple debt claim, then the threshold for federal court jurisdiction is $75,000. There may be some federal law claims that could be made out here. However, the simplest claim here would be a straightforward state law debt claim.

This is important, because attorneys in the US are licensed by state. Attorneys may be licensed in more than one state, and there are some specialized administrative courts in federal agencies which also admit attorneys. For example, I am licensed in Pennsylvania and the USPTO.

If your lawyer is not licensed in the State of Washington, he or she can still pursue an action in federal court in the Washington. However he or she will need to hire a local counsel who is admitted to the US District Court for the Western District of Washington, as it is one of that court's local rules to have a local attorney responsible for compliance. That differs from some other federal courts, but it is why I have appeared in federal courts in various jurisdictions.

In state court - to pursue a debt/contract claim of less than $75,000 - it would be strongly preferable to have an attorney with specific experience and admission to the bar in the State of Washington.

One extremely good, and with fees to match, attorney who tags those bases is Derek Newman. But if you are dealing with an attorney who is not admitted in the State of Washington, it is somewhat less impressive to receive correspondence from an attorney who cannot by him or herself actually bring an action there.

I have no professional or other association with Derek Newman, but this sort of thing is right up his alley.

The reason I mention this is because if your lawyer is not licensed in the State of Washington, then to make good on proceeding to sue, you will end up paying ANOTHER lawyer who is licensed in Washington along with this one. You might want to think about saving a step and hiring a Washington lawyer in the first place.

Derek who works with Newman law right?

 

[karmaco]

Again, zero relevance to ICANN.

If you are having problems with registering, transferring, or doing anything with a domain name, then ICANN is the place to complain. If you complain to ICANN that Epik is not cashing out your Masterbucks, they will have no clue what language you are speaking and why you are speaking it to them. ICANN has nothing to do with how Epik runs the Masterbucks system.

They should care about ANY unhappy customers on their accredited registrars. Sounds like accreditation has zero benefits on the consumer end.

I mean what is their purpose exactly other than to make themselves money.

 

[jberryhill]

Yes, that Derek Newman.

Karmaco, ICANN is a technical coordinating body which develops policy around the domain name system. They are not a consumer protection bureau.

When you go to the grocery store, you might buy some meat. That meat is required to be produced and sold under regulations developed by the US Department of Agriculture. The USDA regulates how the meat is produced, and also regulates how the meat is labeled. In fact, the USDA requires most of the food to have a standard nutrition label on it.

If the store does not give you a loyalty program discount, does not honor your coupons, or will not cash a personal check for you, then I assure you that the USDA, who regulates a lot of what goes on in that store, does not give a rat’s patootie about your purchase or other financial transactions in the store.

If the store is selling food without nutrition content labels, or if they are selling non-pasteurized milk or unrefrigerated eggs, then the USDA might be among the places to call.

 

[AEProgram]

They should care about ANY unhappy customers on their accredited registrars. Sounds like accreditation has zero benefits on the consumer end.

I mean what is their purpose exactly other than to make themselves money.

If ICANN shut down registrars based on unhappy customers, there would be no registrars. Go read the reviews of any registrar including the ones you love and you will find people that are full of complete rage against them. If you say that ICANN should have teams investigating complaints, will you agree to cover the huge costs by paying 5k to register a .com and 8k annual renewal. If you think these numbers are high, go get a job for a week as a supervisor in a big call center that offers customer service solutions to third parties and you might reply that the numbers I posted are too low.

The issue here is not a domain issue anyway, it is an issue that is becoming very common. People used a company to handle a transaction, a company that spent a lot of time here begging that you use their escrow and platform, and that company now is holding on to peoples money when they should immediately give people what is theirs. Robbing from people using a platform has become normalized in this crypto age and by now probably 50+ billion dollars have been taken from people by various platforms.

How far have they fallen from the days that Rob was here helping people close deals, escrow, etc. This was not a company I expected that would ever behave this way. Sure, his views you can argue against, however, the business ethics side seemed very upfront.

Very heartbreaking to see someone go through this and now has health and anxiety issues.

 

[Digital Nomad]

On Epik's own rating platform trustratings.com, they have about 290 reviews for themselves. And when you search for GoDaddy.com or Dynadot.com or Namecheap.com etc. they have ZERO reviews. How can GoDaddy who has so many more clients have zero reviews.

Can you really trust TrustRatings.com, a website owned by Epik? Nope.
Can you then trust anything they say? Let's see if on the 10th next month they will pay out all customers.

 

[karmaco]

If ICANN shut down registrars based on unhappy customers, there would be no registrars. Go read the reviews of any registrar including the ones you love and you will find people that are full of complete rage against them. If you say that ICANN should have teams investigating complaints, will you agree to cover the huge costs by paying 5k to register a .com and 8k annual renewal. If you think these numbers are high, go get a job for a week as a supervisor in a big call center that offers customer service solutions to third parties and you might reply that the numbers I posted are too low.

The issue here is not a domain issue anyway, it is an issue that is becoming very common. People used a company to handle a transaction, a company that spent a lot of time here begging that you use their escrow and platform, and that company now is holding on to peoples money when they should immediately give people what is theirs. Robbing from people using a platform has become normalized in this crypto age and by now probably 50+ billion dollars have been taken from people by various platforms.

How far have they fallen from the days that Rob was here helping people close deals, escrow, etc. This was not a company I expected that would ever behave this way. Sure, his views you can argue against, however, the business ethics side seemed very upfront.

Very heartbreaking to see someone go through this and now has health and anxiety issues.

I understand. I just think registrars should have to meet some bar of satisfaction to remain accredited registrars. Silly me.

I too feel very badly for everyone here waiting on funds. Some who may need that money desperately. Its so sad.

 

[Igor Gabrielan]

It is not clear from CEO's statement when we will receive the money. But it is understood that we definitely will not receive them until October 10th.

 

[alcy]

After talking to them. I realised this new CEO is the reason behind this. Epik can easily wire the money manually but the new CEO is not letting that happen.

He thinks he knows what he is doing. If he knew anything about tech, he wouldn’t have killed the old working platform before launching the new version.

I’m a former developer and i know new developments should be replaced after they are done and tested.

He is going to kill their business.

well a drink on me then to new CEO for ruining master bucks for every np member.. as his first move. good start.

 

[Digital Nomad]

It is not clear from CEO's statement when we will receive the money. But it is understood that we definitely will not receive them until October 10th.

Website will be up again, but the withdrawal function may be in pending mode, awaiting a long line of customers for "verification".

 

[carob]

On the subject of Masterbucks ToS, currently the Masterbucks.com site has a Terms and Conditions link in the footer, which actually takes you to https://www.epik.com/privacy.php Leaves you wondering, are the ToS only available to logged-in users, or are they only displayed when initiating first use of Masterbucks? Is/was there a tickbox to agree to them? Did users get an email confirming their agreement to use Masterbucks?

It certainly is an interesting question what rights users have if funds were handed over with no agreement in place on how to handle them, or no record of users agreeing to any ToS.

in some countries you may be able, very cheaply and simply, even without legal representation, to make a claim through the Small Claims Court process. In the UK if the respondent does not respond, they automatically lose.

Were there previously ToS? You can ask Archive.org, on a quick look even in 2017 or thereabouts it looks like there were no ToS despite the site footer at that time saying "Users are advised to read the terms and conditions carefully." Yet there do not seem to be any ToS on the site at that time either - you can see for yourself at https://web.archive.org/web/20170904051128/http://www.masterbucks.com/faq/ which says:

Where can I use Masterbucks?

Masterbucks can be used in any of the more than 8,000 online stores in the Epik Network of sites. These stores carry everything from socks to computers, and everything in between. In addition, an increasing number of physical businesses accept Masterbucks as a valid form of payment. For a full list of vendors, please visit http://www.masterbucks.com/shop.